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"When Kairos comes to generate his spells, his left head may choose a total of four spells from the Lores of Life, Metal, Light and Heavens...." and so on.

My friend is saying you still have to roll for the spells, you just pick what lores you want to roll on and how many times (either four times on one, or once on each etc.). For me the key word here is choose.

However, his argument has some weight: from the Ogre Kingdoms army book "Butchers and Slaughtermasters .... at least one of them must choose his spells from the Lore of the Great Maw."

Here we see the word choose again, except this time we know for sure that Slaughtermasters cannot cherry pick their spells. This has obviously led my friend to believe that Kairos must in fact roll for his spells.

Personally I'm inclined to believe he can pick spells without rolling, due to how he worked previously. In the old book it was worded exactly the same, except there was a sentence that confirmed he did not roll for spells.

What do you guys think? Is my friend being an ass?

If it is written exactly as you wrote there, with no other relevant details, I would say roll for them. It will probably be FAQd.

I guess there will always be people like that.

Butchers and Slaughtermasters use spells from ____ lores. They say use. You have to take the last sentence out of context to read it as choose, and it's a limitation, not a benefit.

Every caster in DoC has "uses ____ lore." Except Khairos. And Khairos has always chosen his spells, at least for the last few editions. He's the most powerful caster in the new 8th books and isn't a 150ish pt Butcher. Likewise, the DoC book is not affected in any way/shape/form by the wording or limitations in another Army Book. What governs DoC (or any Army) is the BRB, the Army Book, and the FAQ.

If he wants to argue that Butchers get to choose spells, he can knock himself out.

The argument that "Kairos has always been" is weak, because new books can = new rules. Every other master in the DoC book being worded in a different way is.a Much stronger argument.i

I suppose you can read the whole post.

Just to check... his argument was not that the cheap mages got to choose without rolling, but that Kairos had to roll too? Very different q if he was saying that he should be allowed to choose specific spells...

"Choosing a total of 4 spells from...." Means you choose the specific spells you want from those lores. No rolling.

For Ogres you are told at least one must choose the Great Maw when deciding which Lore to use, as that is the context of that sentence (that it is a limitation on your ability to otherwise pick from a list of available lores). It has no bearing, because of that context, on Kairos.

brb page 28 "each wizard knows a number of spells equal to his wizard level, chosen randomly at the start of each battle"

Apart from how it used to work, why do you think that choose spells and chosen randomly don't match up?

To be clear, I suspect that the faq will back up choosing rather than rolling, but it doesn't seem to be RAW yet.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
"When Kairos comes to generate his spells, his left head may choose a total of four spells from the Lores of Life, Metal, Light and Heavens...." and so on.

My friend is saying you still have to roll for the spells, you just pick what lores you want to roll on and how many times (either four times on one, or once on each etc.).

Ask you friend that from now on, when he chooses how to dress for this day, he has to roll a dice and randomly "choose" the stuff he has to wear. Pictures please!

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"Choosing a total of 4 spells from...." Means you choose the specific spells you want from those lores. No rolling.

For Ogres you are told at least one must choose the Great Maw when deciding which Lore to use, as that is the context of that sentence (that it is a limitation on your ability to otherwise pick from a list of available lores). It has no bearing, because of that context, on Kairos.

Kairos chooses when you generate spells.
Every other wizard chooses a lore/lores when you make an army list.

Since the choice is in lieu of spell generation, it implies that he in fact chooses specific spells, not that he chooses and then rolls.

-Matt

I always find it funny that the same question is posted on 2 different message boards at the same item by the same person.

I have done that when I realize the speed of responses from DakkaDakka is usually so much faster that I should have just posted here first.

Artee wrote:
I always find it funny that the same question is posted on 2 different message boards at the same item by the same person.

No rules against it are there? I wanted a variety of opinions and responses, I don't usually do it but I needed a consensus quickly as I have a game coming up.