Malifaux Why Malifaux is not the game for me

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**GreySkull**

I was in Waco to do some business and I decided to stop into the Game Closet to see what they had for Warmachine and just to visit when I came across the Malifaux boxed set and the rulebook. For a first impression I liked the art style. But I'd seen it before. Also, I've seen enough blade-wielding emo-lolita psycho-@#$%^es in gaming and comics to make me want to put it down immediately. However, with the urging of many of the Dakkanauts here in my head who'd recommended it, I decided to actually open the book and peruse it's pages.

What I saw kept disappointing me. More emo/Ann Rice/Twilight-inspired artwork, while very good, just wasn't my thing. The story was so convoluted it read like a cross between a bad emo-action and Shoujo manga. I have to say, I got out of Vampire the Masquerade for a reason.

Then they was the characters. Each one seemed to come from the mind of some depressed emo that had just gotten done watching Interview with a Vampire and decided to write a game based on said depression and movie. I flipped a few more pages and what did see? "Rasputina?" Okay, that was it. I put the book down and wandered over to another section of the store to clear my mind. "Rasputina." they couldn't come up with a more original name? They had to steal the name from an emotionally-depressed, man-hating, feminazi singer and put it in their game? That immediately brought up Ani DeFranco but that's another story I'll not get into here.

To be honest the cover art made me only want to spend about ten minutes with this book. After spending about five minutes, and seeing "Rasputina" in there, I said forget it. I use the word "emo" a lot because that's what I felt about it. There's no better word to describe the world in which these characters live. I can tell some of the characters and places are manga-inspired, like the guy that looks like Black Butler and all the girls dressed up in lolita dresses (also popular in Japan, damn their love for loli and androgyny

). Suffice to say I won't be picking this game up, ever.

**Alfndrate**

That's fine if the game doesn't appeal to you, but perhaps if you could explain or at least let us explain where your initial impressions are wrong or at least misinformed

1) Who is the blade wielding emo psycho witch? Lilith? The Mother of Monsters (in mythology), 1 of the Masters of Malfiaux, a demonic being that embodies the malevolence of nature?

What about the art style have you seen before? Before Malifaux I've never seen art like that, it's extremely distinctive and draws from it's source materials faithfully (westerns, Victorian era clothing, etc...)

The story revolves around all of the characters in the game as they try to complete their own individual goals. The only major story advances came in book 3 and book 4 (for the most part). Book 1 and Book 2 set the story and introduced the characters. Book 3 Introduced the plot event simply known as "The Event". During the Event, one of the Tyrants (ancient gods of Malifaux) were released and changed the characters forever. Book 4 introduces the Ten Thunders faction, a secret crime family that has their hands in every aspect of Malifaux, and finally being revealed openly. So there is a story, but for the most part you have to pay attention to the characters individual stories rather than the overarching plot of a book to really get the story.

The thing about the themes of Malifaux is that it's supposed to pull from horror, so there is Dr. Frankenstein (Douglas McMourning), Jack the Ripper (Seamus), with pieces of the American West, and a few other pieces. It's not that everything is pulled from Ann Rice, Twilight, etc (I would like to point out there isn't a single werewolf or vampire in the game) it's just that the game pulls form horror, so you'll see similarities.

And when you say Loli, are you referring to the showgirls? You know the ones that are wearing traditional mid 1800s showgirl dresses? And who looks like the Black Butler? I don't get the reference, and if you could please give me the Malifaux character's name, I could probably explain why he looks the way he does.

When you talk about the singer of Rasputina, are you refering to Melora Creager? Too bad Rasputina's name is based off of Grigori Rasputin.

And calling everything Emo simply shows the limitations of your vocabulary. The game isn't emo, the city of Malifaux is a terrible place to live, where you could be killed at any moment, yet much like the American West during the mid 1800s, the rewards are worth it. Soulstone mining can make a man rich, it can also get him killed.

So while I find it completely okay that you don't like the game, coming in here and bashing the game like you are is on the verge of trolling and flamebaiting, as nothing about your post could be seen as constructive.

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Yeah, the fluff is really kind of lolwut. But the sculpts are great, the rules are balanced, and the use of cards over dice makes the RNG both reliable and knowably inconsistent (like blackjack: the more high cards you've played the fewer high cards remain in the deck (until you exhaust it and shuffle the discard pile back in), etc). It's also ridiculously cheap to get into.

I assume the fluff will eventually be redone; I hear the quality has increased significantly with the most recent book, so whoever they've got writing it is learning at least.

**Alfndrate**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Yeah, the fluff is really kind of lolwut. But the sculpts are great, the rules are balanced, and the use of cards over dice makes the RNG both reliable and knowably inconsistent (like blackjack: the more high cards you've played the fewer high cards remain in the deck (until you exhaust it and shuffle the discard pile back in), etc). It's also ridiculously cheap to get into.

I assume the fluff will eventually be redone; I hear the quality has increased significantly with the most recent book, so whoever they've got writing it is learning at least.

The fluff, for the most part, is done by a guy named Dan, and the fluff found in book 4 is greatly improved over Book 1 (or Book 1.5 since the first isn't in print anymore). It's easier to treat the fluff in book 1 and book 2 as a collection of short stories.

More of the fluff and storyline will be fleshed out in Through the Breach, the Malifaux RPG

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Yeah, Wyrd definitely seems to be improving themselves in general (though it does look like they started off pretty good anyways), so I'm not worried about whatever shortcomings there may be right now.

Does 1.5 have the rules for pieces introduced in 2-4, or just 1? I know the models come with their rules, but I've always liked knowing exactly what anything could do before I wind up facing it; this also plays into how I choose what to buy.

**Alfndrate**

Book 1.5 is almost a direct reprint of Book 1, all of the model rules have been updated to reflect their v2 statcards (you can see these for free online), the rules have been updated to the latest errata and faqs. The fluff in the book has been changed slightly so that it reads better and is organized better.

**chaos0xomega**

Ok. Cool, thanks for playing, we have this lovely gift bag of cheap wine and cheese for you, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

**Rifter**

GreySkull wrote:
The story was so convoluted it read like a cross between a bad emo-action and Shoujo manga.

To be honest the cover art made me only want to spend about ten minutes with this book. After spending about five minutes, and seeing "Rasputina" in there, I said forget it.

So... you got all that out of the story, in 5 minutes? Sorry, the story is a LOT more than that. You could get a handful of paragraphs, at best.

Ripping on a game that you obviously have no understanding of... is kind of sad. I am personally not a huge fan of horror, but I find the world very interesting. Not a huge fan of some of the art, and really like other pieces. The game itself plays very well.

You could have easily said, this game is not for me... without making up references that quite honestly don't make a lot of sense and not ridiculed something you quite obviously know nothing about. A lot of the "style" turned me off of this game...but man, after getting into it... it is a LOT richer than I had any clue about, and the game plays awesome.

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Alfndrate wrote:
Book 1.5 is almost a direct reprint of Book 1, all of the model rules have been updated to reflect their v2 statcards (you can see these for free online), the rules have been updated to the latest errata and faqs. The fluff in the book has been changed slightly so that it reads better and is organized better.

That's what I suspected.

The fluff I've read really seems reminiscent of the earlier 40k Grimdark, where there's more comedy, everyone's still a villain, and it's all a bit rough around the edges.

That thought makes me want to write up a Malifaux 4,000, where the Guild are the brutal but ultimately right heroes directed by the Immortal Governor-General in his life-support throne which holds open the Breach, the Freikorps are genetically altered supersoldiers, Gremlins reproduce asexually via parthenogenesis, the Neverborn are even more eldritch horrory, and so on. It would be good for a laugh, anyways. Crank it all up to eleven and whatnot.

**Alfndrate**

Lol, I'd read that

And while it all seems very Grimdark, you do have to remember that there are no good guys in Malifaux, the Guild only seems good because a few of the masters are generally "good people" but the Guild itself is corrupt as hell, the Ressers just want to be left alone to discover the secrets of necromancy or make some cash (in Seamus's case), the Arcanists wish to shore up their power and rule (for the most part), the Neverborn just want the humans out of their world, the Outcasts are chaotic and pretty wide spread with their various flavors, and the 10 Thunders want to control the cashflow of malifaux like any good crime family...

All very shades of grey...

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Alfndrate wrote:
Lol, I'd read that

And while it all seems very Grimdark, you do have to remember that there are no good guys in Malifaux, the Guild only seems good because a few of the masters are generally "good people" but the Guild itself is corrupt as hell, the Ressers just want to be left alone to discover the secrets of necromancy or make some cash (in Seamus's case), the Arcanists wish to shore up their power and rule (for the most part), the Neverborn just want the humans out of their world, the Outcasts are chaotic and pretty wide spread with their various flavors, and the 10 Thunders want to control the cashflow of malifaux like any good crime family...

All very shades of grey...

Yeah, it's like the older 40k fluff, as I understand it, when the Imperium wasn't the good guy and everything was a bit wackier. The joke's basically applying the same changes 40k went through since Rogue Trader. And I fully intend to write it, once I've read through enough of the fluff to actually reference it in more than the vaguest fashion.

**Emperors_Champion**

Well if nothing else, it did get people talking about the fluff and got me in the mood to go read some!

Almost finished Book 2! (I read slow!

)

So it wasn't a totally pointless thread!

**Breotan**

The story in book four seemed pretty interesting. I liked the little plot twist at the end and how it explained the power play angle the Ten Thunders were working.

I don't quite get the "Twilight" and "emo" references though.

**Mathieu Raymond**

Book 4 is pretty good. I don't understand why the Jakob Lynch story wasn't longer, because it read fine.

I just come back to this one thing though: The OP posted once, quite a long post at that, and then left. Like, love, hate something, fine. There is no accounting for taste. But to leave it at that and not address the points raised by others...

This is a forum, not a rantline.

The Noir feeling of no good guys creates a feeling reminescent of V:TM, truly. I miss those days. But there are good guys, when you read the stories of book 4. The nameless throng of people suffering in silence, imho, are the redeeming humanity that allow us to see the darkness in the characters we play.

Then again, some might just like reading about a continuous series of battles by a Space Marine reflecting how epic he is.

**Alfndrate**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Book 4 is pretty good. I don't understand why the Jakob Lynch story wasn't longer, because it read fine.

I just come back to this one thing though: The OP posted once, quite a long post at that, and then left. Like, love, hate something, fine. There is no accounting for taste. But to leave it at that and not address the points raised by others...

This is a forum, not a rantline.

The Noir feeling of no good guys creates a feeling reminescent of V:TM, truly. I miss those days. But there are good guys, when you read the stories of book 4. The nameless throng of people suffering in silence, imho, are the redeeming humanity that allow us to see the darkness in the characters we play.

Then again, some might just like reading about a continuous series of battles by a Space Marine reflecting how epic he is.

To be fair, the OP has been doing this around dakka... He's posted several long posts about things, and then seemingly disappears.

**spiralingcadaver**

Heh, pretty lame, re: OP.

Well, I felt that the first two Malifaux books were a bit rough around the edges, but they really hit their stride in the third and 4th ones. They're not high art, but they're solidly engaging.

**GreySkull**

Alfndrate wrote:
That's fine if the game doesn't appeal to you, but perhaps if you could explain or at least let us explain where your initial impressions are wrong or at least misinformed

1) Who is the blade wielding emo psycho witch? Lilith? The Mother of Monsters (in mythology), 1 of the Masters of Malfiaux, a demonic being that embodies the malevolence of nature?

What about the art style have you seen before? Before Malifaux I've never seen art like that, it's extremely distinctive and draws from it's source materials faithfully (westerns, Victorian era clothing, etc...)

The story revolves around all of the characters in the game as they try to complete their own individual goals. The only major story advances came in book 3 and book 4 (for the most part). Book 1 and Book 2 set the story and introduced the characters. Book 3 Introduced the plot event simply known as "The Event". During the Event, one of the Tyrants (ancient gods of Malifaux) were released and changed the characters forever. Book 4 introduces the Ten Thunders faction, a secret crime family that has their hands in every aspect of Malifaux, and finally being revealed openly. So there is a story, but for the most part you have to pay attention to the characters individual stories rather than the overarching plot of a book to really get the story.

The thing about the themes of Malifaux is that it's supposed to pull from horror, so there is Dr. Frankenstein (Douglas McMourning), Jack the Ripper (Seamus), with pieces of the American West, and a few other pieces. It's not that everything is pulled from Ann Rice, Twilight, etc (I would like to point out there isn't a single werewolf or vampire in the game) it's just that the game pulls form horror, so you'll see similarities.

And when you say Loli, are you referring to the showgirls? You know the ones that are wearing traditional mid 1800s showgirl dresses? And who looks like the Black Butler? I don't get the reference, and if you could please give me the Malifaux character's name, I could probably explain why he looks the way he does.

When you talk about the singer of Rasputina, are you refering to Melora Creager? Too bad Rasputina's name is based off of Grigori Rasputin.

And calling everything Emo simply shows the limitations of your vocabulary. The game isn't emo, the city of Malifaux is a terrible place to live, where you could be killed at any moment, yet much like the American West during the mid 1800s, the rewards are worth it. Soulstone mining can make a man rich, it can also get him killed.

So while I find it completely okay that you don't like the game, coming in here and bashing the game like you are is on the verge of trolling and flamebaiting, as nothing about your post could be seen as constructive.

Excellent questions and to be honest, I don't remember a lot of detail, but as for the psycho-witches, it was two women in purple and black stockings in what looked like corsets running towards you with these huge scimitars and their faces were marked by obvious enjoyment for whatever evil deed they were going to commit.

I didn't mean for it to come off as trolling, just my take on what I saw. Hell, I'd never play any of the 40k RPGs simply because I've played Warhammer RPGs and the system, in my honest opinion, stinks. Maybe I come off a little harsh in my criticisms of what I don't like, so I apologize if you people thought I was trolling.

Victorian dress is fine, but there were a couple of pictures of kids, and a few adults, in said dresses. Not a big fan, that's all man.

Rasputin is where the singer got her name from as well. What other source can you suggest she got it from? Just like the character in the game.

And with your line about calling my vocabulary limited, you, sir, are trolling and insulting me publicly. You can sod off with that attitude of yours. I didn't ask to be insulted and I sure as hell won't put up with it from anyone, period. I've never called anyone names and I'm not about to, but your snide remark is enough to get a mod in here. Next time you want to be insulting, sir, I suggest you PM me.

When I first started reading your reply, I thought "he's right, maybe I made a hasty decision and might...." Then I read your insulting tone of my character and education midway through that thought and decided I'd never give Malifaux a second shot. So there goes that. Thaks alot, pal.

**Zond**

Whilst I don't enjoy every piece of art or model Wyrd puts out, I appreciate that they try to have a consistent aesthetic running through their work, and models match their source material or vice versa.

I enjoyed the background more in the first two books. Whilst the protagonists are a cut above the average citizen of Malifaux be it in power or status, I enjoyed the low key nature of the stories. A lot of the background was simply about... well, surviving this weird world. In book three it felt more like a bad comic book summer crossover, where everyone had to team up to beat Galactus. It's a shame, and I know plenty enjoy it, but it felt like an odd move to me and contributed to me dropping the game.

**Alfndrate**

GreySkull wrote:
Snip.

Man you write in a very stream of conscious fashion...

The two women with giant scimitars are the Viktorias, Avatars of Slaughter. If victorian dress is fine, why is it not fine on kids? They had to wear the fashion of the times too. And for the most part there aren't many children in the game, there is Candy, Kade (a baby), Student of Conflict, Malifaux Child, Stolen, and Hollow Waifs... and maybe Crooligans. None of these kids are dressed inappropriately for the time period they're supposed to be representing. If fine that you're not a fan, but if you're not a fan, then the game probably is and was never for you, since it's steampunk which is supposed to be Victorian times + more advanced technology.

Rasputin is a common enough figure in history that it's not uncommon to base things off of him, but your post said this:

GreySkull wrote:They had to steal the name from an emotionally-depressed, man-hating, feminazi singer and put it in their game?

Which doesn't leave much room for assuming that they didn't take their name from Rasputin, but took it from the band Rasputina, whom before yesterday I had never heard of. And from what I can tell (just off of quick google searches), Melora Creager doesn't hate men.

The reason why I called your vocabulary limited is because you used the word emo several times in your post, and each time you used it to mean different things. The first time you used it, you referred to the Viks as emo-lolita pyscho-witches. Emo rarely deals with anger, especially with the outright anger that aViks shows. You then use it to describe the depression that the game designers felt and made a game out of it. You used it "correctly" hear, but your words were trollish and flamebaity. You use it to describe Rasputina, who isn't emo, she's just the embodiment of the harshness of winter, but that's fine. So you say that you used the word emo to describe Malifaux because there is no better way to describe it. Well you used it in two very different ways, so how exactly are we supposed interpret what you mean, is Malifaux extremely angry psychotic or is it depressing and is basically Interview with a Vampire? Remember, there are no vampires at all in this game. So obviously we're unsure of what the feth you're going on about.

Like I said, it's fine that you don't like the game, but you did come in here with a tone that looked to simply stir up trouble. You're free to sit here and discuss the game with us, as is anyone else on these fora, but you have to see how antagonistic you're coming off. And if you're going to continue to be like that, I will be forced to report you.

**martin74**

I just hope the op stays in the Waco tx area. No need for negative thoughts and outlook in Killeen tx. As far as all characters being emo, apperently he didn't get to the gremlins.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Not everyone is going to like the game and theres a lot I don't like about it. A lot I do like though, which is why I still keep my hand in.

Much preferred the older artwork though, new type is a bit blandly generic to me.

**Motograter**

I'm no longer a fan of malifaux but op you basically picked up book 3 and one box and decided that it was emo and well i could say more but its been covered. Trolling is trolling

**KirbyFan**

GreySkull wrote:
I was in Waco to do some business and I decided to stop into the Game Closet to see what they had for Warmachine and just to visit when I came across the Malifaux boxed set and the rulebook. For a first impression I liked the art style. But I'd seen it before. Also, I've seen enough blade-wielding emo-lolita psycho-@#$%^es in gaming and comics to make me want to put it down immediately. However, with the urging of many of the Dakkanauts here in my head who'd recommended it, I decided to actually open the book and peruse it's pages.

What I saw kept disappointing me. More emo/Ann Rice/Twilight-inspired artwork, while very good, just wasn't my thing. The story was so convoluted it read like a cross between a bad emo-action and Shoujo manga. I have to say, I got out of Vampire the Masquerade for a reason.

Then they was the characters. Each one seemed to come from the mind of some depressed emo that had just gotten done watching Interview with a Vampire and decided to write a game based on said depression and movie. I flipped a few more pages and what did see? "Rasputina?" Okay, that was it. I put the book down and wandered over to another section of the store to clear my mind. "Rasputina." they couldn't come up with a more original name? They had to steal the name from an emotionally-depressed, man-hating, feminazi singer and put it in their game? That immediately brought up Ani DeFranco but that's another story I'll not get into here.

To be honest the cover art made me only want to spend about ten minutes with this book. After spending about five minutes, and seeing "Rasputina" in there, I said forget it. I use the word "emo" a lot because that's what I felt about it. There's no better word to describe the world in which these characters live. I can tell some of the characters and places are manga-inspired, like the guy that looks like Black Butler and all the girls dressed up in lolita dresses (also popular in Japan, damn their love for loli and androgyny ). Suffice to say I won't be picking this game up, ever.

You decided to "never pick up this game, ever" based on a 5 minute leaf through of the rulebook's imagery? If you're serious, that's actually pretty funny and rather sad. Do you do the same with movies? Like do you rent a dvd and then fast forward through it to see if the colors and faces of the actors are appealing enough to convince you to watch it? What about books; do you ever just completely ignore a novel because its cover is just lame as hell? I have sometimes... I think we all have.

What I'm trying to say is that in the end it's your loss. You don't win any "cool points" for ranting about how ugly and silly Malifaux looks to you, especially when you have never even played the game (I assume as you haven't mentioned otherwise). While it's easy to fall into a conservative mindset (I'm super guilty of this myself), it's us, ourselves, who lose out on life experiences when we choose to ignore something when first impressions don't meet our preconceived expectations. As a fellow hobbyist, I implore you to keep a more open, less discriminatory mindset in the future.

**spiralingcadaver**

KirbyFan wrote:
GreySkull wrote:
I was in Waco to do some business and I decided to stop into the Game Closet to see what they had for Warmachine and just to visit when I came across the Malifaux boxed set and the rulebook. For a first impression I liked the art style. But I'd seen it before. Also, I've seen enough blade-wielding emo-lolita psycho-@#$%^es in gaming and comics to make me want to put it down immediately. However, with the urging of many of the Dakkanauts here in my head who'd recommended it, I decided to actually open the book and peruse it's pages.

What I saw kept disappointing me. More emo/Ann Rice/Twilight-inspired artwork, while very good, just wasn't my thing. The story was so convoluted it read like a cross between a bad emo-action and Shoujo manga. I have to say, I got out of Vampire the Masquerade for a reason.

Then they was the characters. Each one seemed to come from the mind of some depressed emo that had just gotten done watching Interview with a Vampire and decided to write a game based on said depression and movie. I flipped a few more pages and what did see? "Rasputina?" Okay, that was it. I put the book down and wandered over to another section of the store to clear my mind. "Rasputina." they couldn't come up with a more original name? They had to steal the name from an emotionally-depressed, man-hating, feminazi singer and put it in their game? That immediately brought up Ani DeFranco but that's another story I'll not get into here.

To be honest the cover art made me only want to spend about ten minutes with this book. After spending about five minutes, and seeing "Rasputina" in there, I said forget it. I use the word "emo" a lot because that's what I felt about it. There's no better word to describe the world in which these characters live. I can tell some of the characters and places are manga-inspired, like the guy that looks like Black Butler and all the girls dressed up in lolita dresses (also popular in Japan, damn their love for loli and androgyny ). Suffice to say I won't be picking this game up, ever.

You decided to "never pick up this game, ever" based on a 5 minute leaf through of the rulebook's imagery? If you're serious, that's actually pretty funny and rather sad. Do you do the same with movies? Like do you rent a dvd and then fast forward through it to see if the colors and faces of the actors are appealing enough to convince you to watch it? What about books; do you ever just completely ignore a novel because its cover is just lame as hell? I have sometimes... I think we all have.

What I'm trying to say is that in the end it's your loss. You don't win any "cool points" for ranting about how ugly and silly Malifaux looks to you, especially when you have never even played the game (I assume as you haven't mentioned otherwise). While it's easy to fall into a conservative mindset (I'm super guilty of this myself), it's us, ourselves, who lose out on life experiences when we choose to ignore something when first impressions don't meet our preconceived expectations. As a fellow hobbyist, I implore you to keep a more open, less discriminatory mindset in the future.

Very nicely put! Easily applicable to a number of circumstances.

**virtualonmars**

That is like looking at people playing chess and says the game's fluff is stupid ... wait what were we talking about?

**Phydox**

Malifaux is a fun skirmish game. When the rulebook first came out, we couldn't even get models and proxied a lot. We couldn't get enough of it. I think, in my area, people stopped playing it because there was one book, and people grew tired of playing games against the same factions all the time. I'm not sure if they've introduced a campaign system, because I haven't visited it in a while, but back then it was one up games. No game affected the next one.

Now, with more books out, there seems to be a greater amount of variety. I think the variety could push players in my area back into the game easily.

Not to thread jump but,,,Have they ever introduced a campaign style of play?

**SagesStone**

GreySkull wrote:
When I first started reading your reply, I thought "he's right, maybe I made a hasty decision and might...." Then I read your insulting tone of my character and education midway through that thought and decided I'd never give Malifaux a second shot. So there goes that. Thaks alot, pal.

To be fair, given the topic of this thread and where you posted it are you really surprised?
Too bad it didn't quite appeal to you, one of the things I like about this game is the variety of themes it seems to have across the range.