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@rosa: We're not on the final day of the KS, yet. There's a lot more to come.

As I said, Dreadball finished with 103 minis at $150 and a ton of other bits, Kings of War was just as good.

Both settled at around 70% discount, similar level to what the crazy xmas boxes etc. offered.

Best deals are always straight from Mantic, they've been well known for their nutty promotions ever since they mailed out 6000 free ghoul sprues back in 2010.

Kickstarter is just an extension of that, we get to drown in plastic, they get a cash injection to make stuff happen, everyone's happy.

Yes but if no one. ever. pays. the. rrp. for Mantic (because there are so many opportunities not to) then it's not. really. a. 70%. discount, that was my point. No one's saying it's not good value, but claiming Dreadball backers 'saved $750' (or whatever) is daft.

It's not all that daft. Using RRP is a very simple way of determining discount. Just because there are discounters out there doesn't change that.

But Mantic are the biggest, most frequent ignorers of rrp of all, as Scarlet Squig acknowledges. Many many flgs have found mantic stuff simply does not move at rrp, partly because of this. It's like Sports Direct or Officers Club (downmarket uk retailers) - the "70% OFF!" tags only mean it has been on sale at that price somewhere, once* - not that anyone (sober) actually bought it at that price.

But enough of all that. I am intrigued about new scenery themes. As someone else pointed out, this stuff could do spaceship corridor stuff quite well too - 1.5" stuff as narrow corridor floors, 3" as wider, multiples as rooms etc. could work quite nicely.








actually iirc it's one mainland store for a 4 week period, but the point remains

And saying nobody pays RRP is a sweeping generalization. I will avoid paying it if there's no local retailer I happen to like that carries item X, but if there's a good store run by people who appreciate their customers then I will happily pay RRP for any products I want that they carry. There's not a ton of examples of this anymore, which is why I feel it's doubly important to do it when I find those places.

My FLGS is awesome, so I don't even bat an eyelash at paying full price there. Sure, I could save 15-30% buying it online and waiting, but then I wouldn't have this awesome place to go, and having that little geek island available to me is worth the extra markup.

They don't carry Mantic though, so that's something of a bummer. It does let me rationalize buying in on the KS though...

 rosafari wrote:
As someone else pointed out, this stuff could do spaceship corridor stuff quite well too

It can also make industrial towers!

 rosafari wrote:

But enough of all that. I am intrigued about new scenery themes. As someone else pointed out, this stuff could do spaceship corridor stuff quite well too - 1.5" stuff as narrow corridor floors, 3" as wider, multiples as rooms etc. could work quite nicely.

Plus a Battlezone style with the walkways divided into 1" squares and with wall-connectors in the middle of the corner squares would allow for crossover for Spacehulk players as well...

I need to try to go through the Warpath rules this weekend. I'd like to find out if grabbing some extra starter sets would make sense for playing Warpath, or if I'd rather just hold off (or use the horde of GW models I already own. Mantic's cheaper than GW, but still more expensive than Already Paid For.)

 rosafari wrote:
Yes but if no one. ever. pays. the. rrp. for Mantic (because there are so many opportunities not to) then it's not. really. a. 70%. discount, that was my point. No one's saying it's not good value, but claiming Dreadball backers 'saved $750' (or whatever) is daft.

Looking at current Dreadball prices and a guy who missed the KS....no. It's not daft in the slightest

Yeah...Dreadball had 2500 backers. Some probably split by groups, but regardless, that's a pretty small drop in the ocean of potential customers. Kings of War was only 1500 backers. Although these (and other) deals create an expectation of value, they get the product in peoples hands and on gaming tables. From there, others see the product and may take a look at it when they otherwise may not have done so. Dreadball is the easiest one to spread since you can get up and running for under $100 and it targets board gamers, but the concept is the same - establish a market and let it promote your product.

Nice to see that Exp projection really level out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's not all that daft. Using RRP is a very simple way of determining discount. Just because there are discounters out there doesn't change that.

This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's not all that daft. Using RRP is a very simple way of determining discount. Just because there are discounters out there doesn't change that.

This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

That's a total load of bolshevik, man, just saying.

~Tim?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

That's a total load of bolshevik, man, just saying.

Finecast is 20 pounds for 5 models. Deadzone was $40 for 6.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

That's a total load of bolshevik, man, just saying.

Finecast is 20 pounds for 5 models. Deadzone was $40 for 6.

And the discounts were based off of RRP, not the "Initial high cost to slightly compensate for later freebies/stretch goal addons" cost the KS pledges had.

Honestly, afaik the discount numbers people are throwing around are either based on existing model line RRPs or extrapolated from existing RRPs, not based on the initial KS pledge values alone.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

That's a total load of bolshevik, man, just saying.

Finecast is 20 pounds for 5 models. Deadzone was $40 for 6.

Finecast is AUD $39 for a Character. Deadzone is $10 for a Character. Going well so far

Finecast is AUD $63 for a squad of 5 Striking Scorpions (was the cheapest 5 pack for 40K I could find.) Deadzone was 40 for 6.

(yes its proof that aussies are screwed.)

Yeah, its cheaper than finecast, pretty hard to argue against that. That being said, I think we all know that as the KS goes on, Mantic will add more and more stuff to the pledges and starters and it will be a good deal by the end. Just because it didn't start as the best deal ever made by anyone ever, doesn't mean it won't be pretty good at the end.

Aeon wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
This Kickstarter started with worse prices than Finecast. It's like calling a $10 per model price tag "90% off!" just because you had the audacity to charge $100 per model to start with.

That's a total load of bolshevik, man, just saying.

Finecast is 20 pounds for 5 models. Deadzone was $40 for 6.

Finecast is AUD $39 for a Character. Deadzone is $10 for a Character. Going well so far

Finecast is AUD $63 for a squad of 5 Striking Scorpions (was the cheapest 5 pack for 40K I could find.) Deadzone was 40 for 6.

(yes its proof that aussies are screwed.)

Because using GW Aus prices for relevance really works now doesn't it!????

If you live in Australia it's a pretty good idea, as both the people in that conversation do based on country flags.

At US prices DeadZone and FineCast were roughly equivalent to start; Howling Banshees are $41.25 for six models right now. They do not come with rules, nor do they come with anything to help play the game with them. How much that would be worth in GW terms isn't easy to parse out since the rules are only available in codexes and gaming aids from GW are usually bigger too, but on current prices a gaming aid and rules could reasonably be argued to bring the GW price to $45. To say that the initial Scout-level pricing was similar to FineCast is not an unfair statement. However, neglecting to mention that in both of their previous KickStarters (Loka is was kind of a weird Mantic-but-not-really situation IMO), Mantic has loaded up their pledge levels with free models as time went on is also unfair.

You can make the argument that the outside observer wouldn't know about that practice going in, as maybe they had no interest in Mantic's other offerings. I would counter that it you don't do research into the people you're giving money to, especially when it's readily visible with a few clicks of a mouse, you're setting yourself up for far more heartache from KickStarter than thinking you're paying GW price levels.

Not terribly excited about the landing pad from the concepts, but nobody is forcing me to get it.

As as far as MSRP/RRP goes, eh, if something is always at a discount it's probably disingenuous to treat the stated RRP as the true 'regular' price. I was looking at some watches on Amazon that were 80-90% off. They looked nice so I took a look into the brand and everybody was selling the things at the 90-70% off range. As Kahn would say, "Hank Hill, everyone know sticker price is sucker price." Now, Mantic has had some pretty awesome sales, and I'm sure will have more, but skimming The Warstore and Miniature Market it looks like their discount on Mantic items is about the same as that on everything else. Seems like RRP is a reasonable measure of a products 'true' price.

A 6 figure starter set for $40US? Not a good deal, but not a bad one either. It's in fact quite fair. Maybe a bit high ($35 would seem a bit more appropriate) but I imagine that Mantic started them out small knowing full well that they'd be expanding them, and they wanted some easy stretch goals. Gaming the KS a bit? Certainly. Does it make a whole lot of sense to really analyze the value of the starter boxes at the start of the KS when they're now considerably larger, and most likely intended to be this size all along? Probably not.

The thing with this terrain is that because it's multi use, and re-assemblable (if that's even a real word) it will never look quite as good as a custom designed example of building X (or landing pad X)

But the fact that you can build lots of different structures, and chose what will suit your table (and even pull them apart again and build something different next time) is the real key

If I want a really excellent SF noodle shop (random example) I can buy one in resin (and probably pay a lot), but that's all it will ever be

The mantic sprues will let me make something that can be a noodle shop for this game, a watch tower the next or part of a hug warehouse in the third that's their real beauty

(some MDF stuff can be used in a similar way, but styrene is a lot lighter and to my mind easier to work with)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The thing with this terrain is that because it's multi use, and re-assemblable (if that's even a real word) it will never look quite as good as a custom designed example of building X (or landing pad X)

But the fact that you can build lots of different structures, and chose what will suit your table (and even pull them apart again and build something different next time) is the real key

If I want a really excellent SF noodle shop (random example) I can buy one in resin (and probably pay a lot), but that's all it will ever be

The mantic sprues will let me make something that can be a noodle shop for this game, a watch tower the next or part of a hug warehouse in the third that's their real beauty

(some MDF stuff can be used in a similar way, but styrene is a lot lighter and to my mind easier to work with)

That's a fair assessment. Hopefully Mantic will put together some concept drawings, or even better 3d renders like in the video they made for the Core Worlds stuff, showing what you can do with the landing pad kit. I thought the Dwarven Forge stuff was pretty meh until I saw a few examples of what could be done, and a better idea of how big it all was. Then I bought enough for a fancy little dungeon crawl; the Mantic stuff could go the same way. That said I'm still planning on going in for the 8 building bundle (plus what comes in Strike.)

6 models for a skirmish game at $35 rrp ($5 shipping)? Maybe infinity would've been a fairer comparison as farvas 6 model skirmish game starters go. Would still have made paying rrp a bad idea due to discounts, but the finecast comparison is just way out there.
...at least restic generally casts well, is sturdy enough to not break any sooner than PS and doesn't 'droop' the way we've seen FC carnosaurs do.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The thing with this terrain is that because it's multi use, and re-assemblable (if that's even a real word) it will never look quite as good as a custom designed example of building X (or landing pad X)

But the fact that you can build lots of different structures, and chose what will suit your table (and even pull them apart again and build something different next time) is the real key

Wait, so you mean we can make and paint one building then unclip it and make in totally differentway? This terrain seems a whole lot more appealing now...

Yup, that's the idea of the clips structure.
Mind you, you'll have to be careful to keep the paint thin around connecting areas etc. (get a cheap airbrush ) but it should work like that, yes. Great for storage, too!

Hrm... the thread title is misleading at the moment. I thought we had unlocked the 400K goal during the night, but the current total is 387K.

^ Thread title isn't misleading, it displays the current stretch goal that we're gunning for, not the already-completed one.

It describes what will happen once the goal is met. I considered writing "tooled" in place of "unlocked", but that would probably confuse even more people.

Ignore....stupid internet....

Thoughts on how well 40k would be played on 6x4 deadzone map packed with urban terrain full on city style? I've never played a game like that and think it could be pretty fun for a change. Urban war, big LoS issues, streets funneling fire and so on.

Looking forward to the deadzone game ofc, but as always interested in how things relate to 40k ; p

If you can lay hands on Cities of Death, they had some ok-ish rules for cityfighting. They probably need updating, but I don't see why something along those lines wouldn't work with this terrain for 40k.