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 Azazelx wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.

OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.

That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.

Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.

Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.

On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.

For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.



^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.

Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.

Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.

I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".

I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.

I agree that it is clearly Mantic responding to the fact that tons of people out there want them to basically be putting out 40K armies so they don't have to pay GW prices.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.

That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.

Yep, I'm in no way rubbing it in. I guess we should just be careful of what is stated as fact, since I can see you're as disappointed as many of the rest of us.

Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.

I'm not even going to blame the concept art or posing. If they were good or great sculpts, they would simply be good or great sculpts, regardless of mad posing, cartoony or comedy elements or any of the rest. Again, look at the Rackham goblins posted earlier, which are all of the above and still great sculpts.

For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.

Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.

Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.

Speaking for myself at least, I like GW orcs/orks and I actually don't mind the Mantic take on them, either. Again, what's important is the fact that they're (mostly) well sculpted (both GW and Mantic). I would say again though that the problem with these Orx isn't that they've attempted heroic scale, but the fact that they've done it badly. I've got GW Orcs and Orks from the pre-slottabase days, RT figures through almost every change to the modern ones. With the exception to the plastic-armed 2nd edition ones, (and the Bob Olley ones!) pretty much everything sculpted by Kev Adams and Brian Nelson works for me, because they're well sculpted. The Gorka Morka orcs are clearly different to Kev's ones, and again to Brian's ones. The GM ones are not great, but they're still decent - Like the KoW/Warpath ones. Ultimately, I don't mind what scale type they go with as long as they're good sculpts.

I really hope they take the opportunity to redo them now rather than take the usual "it's just bad photos, guys!" It might be easier in the short-term, but it'll do far less good for them in the long run than getting high-quality sculpts done now. Measure twice, cut once. I suspect that they're already locked into manufacturing deadlines though, due to the way Mantic runs their KS projects.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I agree that it is clearly Mantic responding to the fact that tons of people out there want them to basically be putting out 40K armies so they don't have to pay GW prices.

To be fair, that's how Mantic started off and ran for a long time, so it's no surprise to see that perception continuing...

I hope someone's suggestion that they allow switching out factions comes true.

Goodbye Orx, hello more Enforcers!

Please!

Got in on the 150.00 level.

Game looks pretty cool, but i'll have to watch the progress.

They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.

I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.

I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.

The other Warpath Orx, including the recent Dreadball Orx, are all Ape-like, so that part of it really shouldn't be disturbing any of the Dreadball players who were paying attention.

That's the downside to nerd-rage rants: folks complain about EVERY little thing about what they are raging about versus really sticking to what the problem(s) is.

I feel the issues are the overly comical, non-serious look, and the overall bad sculpts. The Orx were already under the micro-scope after the silly looking ranged Ripper-suit preview.

Let's just cross our fingers were about done with starting factions anyhow and can start digging into the next 2 and then the next 2. They really do look like they have quite a bit of options each at this point.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.

OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.

That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.

Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.

Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.

On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.

For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.



^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.

Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.

Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.

I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".

I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.

HERE HERE . I would love to see the KOW designs sci-fied into warpath.

KOVAV wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.

OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.

That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.

Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.

Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.

On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.

For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.



^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.

Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.

Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.

I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".

I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.

HERE HERE . I would love to see the KOW designs sci-fied into warpath.

Tell this to Mantic in the comments of the KS... They already know something is wrong....

I mean, the general awser to the photos was "wtf?"...

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.

OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.

That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.

Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.

Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.

From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.

 scarletsquig wrote:
They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.

I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.

I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.

50/50 Rebs and Enforcers would be a dream come true for me as well, they are by far the best looking sculpts and lack the cartoony aspects of the Marauders and Plague.

Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...

overtyrant wrote:

From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.

From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.

After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.

Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...

After being reassured that the BB malarkey stopped after a couple of days I checked myself and found this to be true. So could we please stop this 'argh the comments section is an evil place that we must not venture as we may catch something'. Is getting rather old chaps.

 scarletsquig wrote:
They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.

I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.

I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.

That's a bit of unproven theorycraft saying "they'd get a lot more money". There are a lot of factors to consider, and I really don't want to get into it beyond saying you have no way of proving that statement.

As a backer, of course I like options, but I also understand the impact that would have on the business.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Just look at the amount of complaints you see about "too skinny" elves, which are in fact perfectly in proportion... that's one reason why Mantic is going more heroic-scale with their sculpting, due to feedback on forums such as these.

No, they are not perfectly in proportion. And I say that as someone who has spent far more time in the past decade drawing and painting pictures of people in true scale than I have working on 28mm miniatures.

 scarletsquig wrote:
allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.

I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.

THIS. With the exact same breakdown.

I'd even pay for the big spiky mutant guy as an add-on, since he's the only one of that faction that appeals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

overtyrant wrote:

Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...

After being reassured that the BB malarkey stopped after a couple of days I checked myself and found this to be true. So could we please stop this 'argh the comments section is an evil place that we must not venture as we may catch something'. Is getting rather old chaps.

Comments sections of kickstarters are just not a place I wish to spend my online time. The layout is horrible as is the noise/signal ratio. Official game forums are often way too skewed by sycophants and those who would troll them, so I avoid those as well. I prefer moderated forums like this one.

Apologies about video, it's apparently been 7 years since I uploaded anything to youtube and had no idea you could even make something private. Should be sorted now:

 Cyporiean wrote:

overtyrant wrote:

From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.

From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.

After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.

What do you mean by "get" and "that thinking"?

With the greatest respect to Riquiende (and thanks so much for taking the shots that you did!) but are there any better shots of the marauders than this?



Might have been good timing now for Mantic to show some promotion-type shots. Not excusing the quality of the models, whatever you may think of them and their concept, but it would be interesting to see a larger collection of some better photos.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Just look at the amount of complaints you see about "too skinny" elves, which are in fact perfectly in proportion... that's one reason why Mantic is going more heroic-scale with their sculpting, due to feedback on forums such as these.

No, they are not perfectly in proportion. And I say that as someone who has spent far more time in the past decade drawing and painting pictures of people in true scale than I have working on 28mm miniatures.

Funny, guys, arguing over the perfect proportions of an elf

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

overtyrant wrote:

From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.

From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.

After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.

What do you mean by "get" and "that thinking"?

Quite simple really, multipart models need to be blunt, not really smooth and segmented in such a way that many different parts can be stuck in them, if a sculptor wants to create a fluid characterful sculpt, or is stuck in that mindset, well, he cannot produce multipart models.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:
With the greatest respect to Riquiende (and thanks so much for taking the shots that you did!) but are there any better shots of the marauders than this?

Ripper suits look great - but I honestly never have found any appeal to sci-fi orcs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Riquende wrote:
Apologies about video, it's apparently been 7 years since I uploaded anything to youtube and had no idea you could even make something private. Should be sorted now:

Thanks for posting.

The logistics for the mats is interesting - might help people realise the limitations on small model companies.

 Pacific wrote:
With the greatest respect to Riquiende (and thanks so much for taking the shots that you did!)

No worries... I'm just an amateur with a camera phone.

hm...well, i find with the other pics, i dislike the marauder sculpts a bit less

Hmmm if you combine running mans left arm with double guns then you end up with a better look well at least it's salvageable

Eventually well get a new update. First time Mantic was slow on the draw.

Honestly I do not think these sculpts are salvageable.

Mantic feel the noise!!
Change those damn Ork Toys!!
Cause we're Riled, riled, riled!!
RILED RILED RILED!!

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

overtyrant wrote:

From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.

From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.

After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.

What do you mean by "get" and "that thinking"?

Quite simple really, multipart models need to be blunt, not really smooth and segmented in such a way that many different parts can be stuck in them, if a sculptor wants to create a fluid characterful sculpt, or is stuck in that mindset, well, he cannot produce multipart models.

As a sculptor I'm quite familiar with the differences mate... and so are the majority of any competent sculptor in the biz... thats why I don't understand the claim of "didn't get", " that thinking" and now " stuck in that mindset"...

My question was also aiming to the comment of "after several years of working with sculptors"... What does that mean? most sculptors dont "get" multipart?????

I hope that it's just me not reading this right because atm looks quite a depreciative way to address sculptors and in this case one of the best in the world ( remy)

I can tell you this much talented sculptors are always too busy to take most projects and they do select what they prefer or is better payed etc... That is different from not understanding multipart process.

New update, 430k and 2500 backers. The fortified defence line looks good.

onwards we go

Next up, it’s time for more BattleZones!

$450,000 – Fortified Defence Line BattleZone

Citizen Jael had read all of the reports – colossal abominations, mutated aliens and rumours of supersoldiers executing civilians. He had hoped that the Enforcers would quarantine the area in Nicorasi on the south coast but the disease was virulent and intel was coming in suggesting the outbreak was more widespread than first thought. Jael looked up at the Laser Cannon Engineer Talbot had installed and over to the defence lines being erected. He hoped it would be enough.

If we hit this goal we will fund the Fortifications BattleZone – a new Buildings Sprue that contains enough components to build a defence line, including the mighty Laser Cannon and Large Gate, and add reinforcements to your Core Worlds BattleZone. These components will allow you to further militarise your gaming table in preparation for the oncoming Plague onslaught and defend against the raiding Rebs and Marauder Forces!

Sample Concept Art:




The Fortifications BattleZone contains 3 Buildings Sprue of approximately 6 tiles and 1 Connector Sprue.

By hitting this goal you will:

- Unlock the Fortifications as one of your choices if you have pledged for the Urban Fight ($25), Urban Skirmish ($50), Urban Battle ($95) or Urban War ($185) scenery

What's next?

A new mercenary is coming and then, could it be? New Factions? Just maybe!