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Wasn't there an update that we wouldn't be getting 6 full tiles on each sprue?

^ No, not that I'm aware of.

Wow, that's quite a change in the kicktraq and thread mood since the last time I popped in. The not-eldar look interesting but dwarves look a bit too must like old D&D fantasy adamantium dwarven armor. Hopefully it won't say in the single 1,000 digits today. Even if it does, lots of very successful KS like other mantic offerings and even Myth hit those low numbers for a few days in the mid-KS lull and still ended very strong.

I know we are all foaming at the mouth over terrain possibilities, but remember the game was tested for, and works best with lots of cover, and not just a few building with lots of open terrain.

Jumping on Squig's idea, I'd like to just see a post from Mantic saying "Here's what you can make with one Battlezone!"

Toss up a bunch of mock ups. Remind people it's just one battlezone. Show big tall structures. Maybe a few little bungalows. T and L shaped buildings. Multi stories.

I think we'd see more terrain pledges if people could see all the various possibilities of even just one battlezone.

I just want to see more.

The orx are the big problem, the FF + Asterians big streach gap right after their reveal does not help, so things are a bit slow, not that slow really, but since there is no perceived movement things look slow and people have time to think, recollect and ask.

Its what I had said really early about keeping the steam, the gap here is a problem, I am positive it will start moving faster once those final 8k accumulate, but the time took its toll, now they need to rekindle the fire and pick up steam.

its not doom and gloom really and it may be in retrospect a good thing because it allows good questions to be raised that may help the overall project much.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Jumping on Squig's idea, I'd like to just see a post from Mantic saying "Here's what you can make with one Battlezone!"

The hold up is that they still haven't finalized what exactly is going to fit on each sprue.

There's another significant factor too: Pledges are open for KoW backers right now too. It will probably pick up to some extent after that, but a number of Mantic fans are being pulled in two directions right now.

Once it gets close to $500,000, there will be some momentum of people trying to reach the stretch.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I've made a quick sketch for everyone to show a building that can be made with the contents of a single battlezone, it's a bit more interesting than the plain 9"x6" single storey that Mantic uses in their sample pic:

Yep. I will make one building like that, and possibly one multi-level ruin, and then add a ton of details to make it a nice piece of terrain. And then those 2 bases of 'terrain' go into my collection. I don't need dozens of buildings like this, I also am not going to be taking them apart and putting them back together. The idea that someone will want literally a dozen of these custom buildings, I don't see it. A unifying paint job and basing combines dozens of custom terrain pieces.

I pretty much don't want or need more than 50$ total of this style of terrain and even for 50$, that seems a bit much, I probably would do a 25$ kit and add my own walls out of other materials and use the bulkheads for detailed features and mix it with my own conversions and styles. The detail add-ons actually are more appealing as pieces which can be used to make cool terrain. But for 35$, that is super expensive compared to alternatives IMHO. Make that 20$ for those sets, and now you have a 'deal' which encourages purchasing.

There is simply no appeal for these pieces in bulk for a single person the same way a dungeon tile set has. Unless you are in ultra need of 3"x3" gridded terrain for a specific ruleset. And the prices are expensive for the value. I buy terrain which interest me, and I would get more if the computer terminals were cheaper, but they all cost too much for too little.

I also know as someone contributing for terrain, my money and stretch goaling power will not bring ME more stuff. Every stretch goal should have parallel tracks for models and terrain if they were serious about making this a terrain kickstarter. I don't particularly care if you are going to get an extra dancing goblin if I am pledging as a terrain only person. I need to know if I splurge on an extra 50$ of expensive terrain, eventually the 50$ will snowball into something with a great value. Right now that doesn't seem to be possible. Just matter of fact add-ons with take it or leave it prices.

 Alpharius wrote:

Anyway, I'd love to hear opinions as to why this one hasn't gone quite as well as many expected after the terrain and FF and Asterians were introduced...

I can only speak for myself. I am pledged at Striker level. I may add more terrain once I see what the ruins look like. The Orx are useless to me in their current form. Kicking in $50 for two factions that may or may not get enough figs added to them so that they are comparable to existing factions isn't attractive until they do get fill out WITH concepts and sculpts I like. After the Orx, I am very reluctant to add the bucks based just on promises or concept art which they feel no obligation to stick to. Some of the other extras are mildly attractive, but since I currently feel 25% of the figures I am getting are a waste I'm reluctant to add more based on concept art. Floating Squid Critter is not to my taste. Many of the terrain items seem best suited for indoor stuff (holo tables and lockers and med beds and stuff) and I don't imaging playing a lot of indoor scenarios, and have a lot of those types of items anyway.

Dreadball Praetorian (Asterian Cypher)

EDIT - this was hand sculpted the Deadzone ones will most likely be Digital sculpts.



Looks good to me.

Edit: Aww, you fixed it first.

 DaveC wrote:
Dreadball Praetorian (Asterian Cypher)



Looks good to me.

Anyone else humming the chariots of fire song looking at that fig?

It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

Yeah, I would have preferred a sort of Neural-net / Professor X cerebro style setup.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

 Baragash wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

Did they actually say that is what the Drones are? If so, where? I'd like to read it.

~Eric
Edit:
Just noticed the newest update so disregard the above.

 Alpharius wrote:

Anyway, I'd love to hear opinions as to why this one hasn't gone quite as well as many expected after the terrain and FF and Asterians were introduced...

I just backed out. I don't like the terrain. Can't tell you why. Maybe if it were mixed in with plasticard or something, but as of now a big selling point is modularity... which makes it just too toy-like.

Also, the Orx now-a-preview-because-its-gak-back-to-rework thing scared me off.

The problem with kickstarters, in general, is that I have to pay upfront, sight unseen, in this case based on concept art. The Orx look nothing like the concept art - proportions speaking - and I really feel like if the pictures hadn't been shown upfront and elicited such an outcry, we'd have been stuck with them.

No discount is enough for me to be stuck with minis that I dislike. I'll wait for streetdate and buy what I want.

 Taarnak wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

Did they actually say that is what the Drones are? If so, where? I'd like to read it.

~Eric
Edit:
Just noticed the newest update so disregard the above.

Yeah, Mantic is really falling down on dealing with this stuff. This is the 'Zeee' and '8th race' all over again. It isn't hard to make unique stuff, but they keep having to ret-con their own fluff and just copy other universes for no apparent reason.

 Baragash wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

Just feel like it should be mentioned that what is being said isn't entirely accurate... they're flesh and blood with a steel skin, the background is closer to Cylons from the new BSG than eldar.

nkelsch wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I personally don't care if they're hunched Rogue Trader Orks, "apelike" modern 40k Orks, hunched, longfaced Mantic Orx or Apelike DreadBall Orx as long as they're well sculpted, properly-proportioned to the template they go with, and don't look like the amateur/semi-pro not-warhammer figures that used to come out in the mid-late 1990's

I want the Ripper suit back to the concept art where it is a power-lifter machine with a cockpit driver and not just fancy armor. One-handing those guns, it needs some gumption in the design. I also think there is room for 'Orx holding rifle like he is shooting' poses.

I did mention these points to Stewart. I don't expect we'll get much love with the Ripper suits though. We can hope, though...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
I've made a quick sketch for everyone to show a building that can be made with the contents of a single battlezone, it's a bit more interesting than the plain 9"x6" single storey that Mantic uses in their sample pic:

15 years ago when Necromunda came out, we could choose from a few chunks of resin, building our own, or GW's card+bulkhead offerings. As others have stated, though. We're really spoiled for choice these days.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
I know we are all foaming at the mouth over terrain possibilities, but remember the game was tested for, and works best with lots of cover, and not just a few building with lots of open terrain.

I guess the problem, for me at least, and possibly others as well is that we like to play our mini games on a table that at least looks like it could exist somewhere. That playtest table pic reminds me of the "Shipment" MP map from Call of Duty 4. Which was fun enough, but is far from the only type of game I'd want to be playing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:
But for 35$, that is super expensive compared to alternatives IMHO. Make that 20$ for those sets, and now you have a 'deal' which encourages purchasing.

There is simply no appeal for these pieces in bulk for a single person the same way a dungeon tile set has. Unless you are in ultra need of 3"x3" gridded terrain for a specific ruleset. And the prices are expensive for the value. I buy terrain which interest me, and I would get more if the computer terminals were cheaper, but they all cost too much for too little.

I also know as someone contributing for terrain, my money and stretch goaling power will not bring ME more stuff. Every stretch goal should have parallel tracks for models and terrain if they were serious about making this a terrain kickstarter. I don't particularly care if you are going to get an extra dancing goblin if I am pledging as a terrain only person. I need to know if I splurge on an extra 50$ of expensive terrain, eventually the 50$ will snowball into something with a great value. Right now that doesn't seem to be possible. Just matter of fact add-ons with take it or leave it prices.

Again, feed this back to Mantic in an email. You don't even need to change your tone - just c&p

Just to speak from experience, the above mentioned Dust Tactics/Warfare buildings are WONDERFUL.

Not the prettiest, most artful terrain ever, but I own five or six sets of it, and it is highly functional, and CHEAP (relatively speaking). I think you can buy a two-story building's worth for about $20 at internet prices, which is on par with Mantic's "battle-ground" prices.

Meanwhile, the "segments" are roughly three inches long... go figure. ;-)

 CptJake wrote:
Many of the terrain items seem best suited for indoor stuff (holo tables and lockers and med beds and stuff) and I don't imaging playing a lot of indoor scenarios, and have a lot of those types of items anyway.

You know... with such a small playing area, and the type of terrain set up in their playtest example - indoor scenarios actually fit the game quite well. With an assumed ceiling over the top of it all, a series of rooms set up as the interior of an office/med facility/university building/etc would probably be ideal. There's tons to google as well. Just add some vents or holes blasted in walls to add more flanking options and lessen choke points.



Just google "office floor plans" and see a million ideas.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Just to speak from experience, the above mentioned Dust Tactics/Warfare buildings are WONDERFUL.

Not the prettiest, most artful terrain ever, but I own five or six sets of it, and it is highly functional, and CHEAP (relatively speaking). I think you can buy a two-story building's worth for about $20 at internet prices, which is on par with Mantic's "battle-ground" prices.

Meanwhile, the "segments" are roughly three inches long... go figure. ;-)

Yeah, I have 2 sets (so far) myself. Unassembled as yet, as I'm working my way through a ton of scenery, but yes - that's exactly my point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

Bad game fluff is bad, but expected. Most new games have bad fluff. I don't even know why people get worked up about it anymore. Just play DeadZone (or Warpath) as in the 40k universe setting.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It seems a bit of a shame that Warpath elves are featuring cybernetically reanimated soldiers

it all seems a bit too close to Eldar and soulstones

^This, terrible, terrible fluff. Just make them advanced AI or some sort of mind-link with the actual live Asterian. Guess that free expansion choice will be FF for me.

Just feel like it should be mentioned that what is being said isn't entirely accurate... they're flesh and blood with a steel skin, the background is closer to Cylons from the new BSG than eldar.

Let's be fair though:
1) I've bolded what he actually said, the issue here is that once it steps away from robots (be it AI or controlled) to some form of "spiritual" construct, the "our Elves are different" Venn diagrams share too much common area
2) It goes beyond that, the commentary about the relationship between the Corporation and the Asterians also does a good impression of walking and quacking like an Eldar, even if they are not entirely identical

Let's not forget, I'm a fairly big Mantic fan (I own all there games and went all in on Dreadball and Loka and heavily in on KoW, they've had nearly £2k off me over the last 2-3 years) - but I raised this issue on their own forums before. We get that there's "nothing new under the sun", but they need to pick and choose when to go and stand in the shade, this is a definite moment of not applying enough factor 50 to whoever is writing the background.

@Azazelx: TBH I don't expect Booker Prize winning fiction from any game, but I like to feel that the author is at least making an effort to construct something in an interesting manner. Take the KoW mythology for example, very little original in it, but the way old tropes have been put together is sufficiently interesting as background for a war game.

 Azazelx wrote:

Bad game fluff is bad, but expected. Most new games have bad fluff. I don't even know why people get worked up about it anymore. Just play DeadZone (or Warpath) as in the 40k universe setting.

Part of what interest me in a force or a game is fluff, more so then the rules; bad fluff means less interest and less likely to play/buy.

 Azazelx wrote:
You know... with such a small playing area, and the type of terrain set up in their playtest example - indoor scenarios actually fit the game quite well. With an assumed ceiling over the top of it all, a series of rooms set up as the interior of an office/med facility/university building/etc would probably be ideal. There's tons to google as well. Just add some vents or holes blasted in walls to add more flanking options and lessen choke points.

Yep that's what I was thinking. A big reason I'm so keen on this terrain is due to how modular it is which will let you change it up in awesome ways like that.

Only $5000 until the marathon stretch is over. Looks like it will probably drop a few hours after the Kicktraq day ticks over. So still within the 3-4 day span, but man was that a slog.

Can't wait to see if they do another flurry of $7.5k stretches to start filling out the new factions. Giving us a few new-faction add-ons will start getting me in to things a bit more. I have been waiting for FF add-ons since day one and I want to give them my money.

the 7.5k stretches are great. so the next set of stretchs will be?
i am assuming something like terrain, asterian/FF ranged model, melee model, fast attack, terrain, ++ to minis in both. then after that, season 2 which would hopefully ad dreadnaught type characters and potential vehicles for the bigger games.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Only $5000 until the marathon stretch is over. Looks like it will probably drop a few hours after the Kicktraq day ticks over. So still within the 3-4 day span, but man was that a slog.

Oh, so now it was a slog!

 Ronin_eX wrote:

Can't wait to see if they do another flurry of $7.5k stretches to start filling out the new factions. Giving us a few new-faction add-ons will start getting me in to things a bit more. I have been waiting for FF add-ons since day one and I want to give them my money.

I'm thinking given the less than stellar reaction and pledging they've seen since a few of the recent releases that yeah, this is exactly what we'll see!

 kilcin wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Bad game fluff is bad, but expected. Most new games have bad fluff. I don't even know why people get worked up about it anymore. Just play DeadZone (or Warpath) as in the 40k universe setting.

Part of what interest me in a force or a game is fluff, more so then the rules; bad fluff means less interest and less likely to play/buy.

Fair enough. For me at least, there are just so many sci-fi figure ranges out there now, and every one of them wants to have their own background and world and ruleset, mostly of which seem to be average-or-badly written. It's about as bad as video games now. I'm happy with good models these days, and I'll just shoehorn them into something that works for me. For example, the version of 40k I have in my mind is expansive enough to fit everything, and I just ignore the truly awful elements (fungoid orks, no more squats, etc).