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Wow, nice job! When my own pledge (finally) arrives I will be making a vignette with this mini and an ALEPH Atalanta.

For.. reasons.

I can't decide if my not backing this project was a good thing or a bad thing.... Maybe if I see a Captain pledge going for a reasonable amount on Ebay I'll pick it up.

I still think it will end up being a fun game - once the revised and intelligible rulebook is released - that comes with a lot of nice, stylistically interesting fantasy miniatures.

 Alpharius wrote:
I still think it will end up being a fun game - once the revised and intelligible rulebook is released - that comes with a lot of nice, stylistically interesting fantasy miniatures.

Unless you have to buy it at retail... Then it just comes with a bunch of counters...

Fair point...

 Alpharius wrote:
Fair point...

Yeah.. The spot I'm in right now, spend $300 to $400 on ebay or buy basically an incomplete game for $67.50.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Fair point...

Yeah.. The spot I'm in right now, spend $300 to $400 on ebay or buy basically an incomplete game for $67.50.

How is the game incomplete(other than the poor rulebook)? The retail boxed game is the same as the box shipped to the KS backers, obviously just minus all the stretch goal rewards. There's 41 minis in the box and while there are tons of tokens and counters, none of them are there in place of minis for the monsters or heroes.

Yeah, the base game comes with 15 little spiders, two medium scorpions, and the big Terror, along with 15 orks and 2 orc captians, plus the five heroes.

For ~$70, that's a pretty decent game.

Jebus10000 wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Fair point...

Yeah.. The spot I'm in right now, spend $300 to $400 on ebay or buy basically an incomplete game for $67.50.

How is the game incomplete(other than the poor rulebook)? The retail boxed game is the same as the box shipped to the KS backers, obviously just minus all the stretch goal rewards. There's 41 minis in the box and while there are tons of tokens and counters, none of them are there in place of minis for the monsters or heroes.

Thats not what 90% of the reviews I've watched have said. The most common complaint, after the rulebook, is that the base version of the game doesn't come with enough minatures to actually run a good number of the scenarios/quests without proxying.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Thats not what 90% of the reviews I've watched have said. The most common complaint, after the rulebook, is that the base version of the game doesn't come with enough minatures to actually run a good number of the scenarios/quests without proxying.

Ah, yeah, I guess a lot of the scenarios involve a ton of minis.

I haven't played it yet, as my friends aren't too interested and I've been too busy. Maybe after I move I can spend some time to figure it out...

 Polonius wrote:
Yeah, the base game comes with 15 little spiders, two medium scorpions, and the big Terror, along with 15 orks and 2 orc captians, plus the five heroes.

For ~$70, that's a pretty decent game.

Thats actually less of a deal then Descent 2nd Edition... But thats not really what i'm getting at.

As it stands from what I've seen the retail retail version of Myth is an incomplete game that is going to have me looking to pickup a Kickstarter copy.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Thats not what 90% of the reviews I've watched have said. The most common complaint, after the rulebook, is that the base version of the game doesn't come with enough minatures to actually run a good number of the scenarios/quests without proxying.

Ah, fair enough. I've only played the game a handful of times and haven't had that issue so far, but we've come close to running out.

From where I stand now, I think buying Myth Retail right now is kind of silly.

There will be kickstarter sets all over eBay, and it's really just a beta set of rules right now.

 Polonius wrote:
From where I stand now, I think buying Myth Retail right now is kind of silly.

There will be kickstarter sets all over eBay, and it's really just a beta set of rules right now.

I agree. I'm not saying that the retail verision of Myth is a bad deal, just that I'd rather pay more and get something complete.

There always seem to be atleast a couple copies up on ebay and the price varies pretty wildly.

I know that it is easy to get caught up in the hysteria of it all. Don't bother reading all the hyperbole over on BGG.

How the game functions is actually quite good,..... we are not talking about scrapping rules, or changing rules that did not work. Indeed the rule book itself was not structured very well, adn had some stuff missing,.... but they are fixing that..... and by fixing,.. they are not changing the rules of the game,... nothing is broken in the conventional sense.

they rules are just going to be more clearly stated in the new book. I've played many games, even before erratas and such came out.

The one thing that you really should have printed is the Card Reference. It clarifies most questions that you might have about card interaction., After you have played a few hands, you'll have the hang of it, and won't have to refer back to it.

As to the game being "incomplete" as a retail product,... not much more so than most of these games that are designed for you to buy more content. If you only play the game occasionally, then it has got everything that you need to have fun,.... If you are going to play a lot,.. well then you will want more enemy types and quests, and items, etc. to have a varied ongoing experience.

It is true that you can set up scenarios with the base box that it does just not have enough minis for (4 lairs on a double large tile for example), but the quests that are there only call for more than one lair very rarely,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All that said: I would not want to pay $60-$70 for a game that I'm only going to play rarely,.... so I will agree with the sentiment of wanting to get a Captain Pledge off of Ebay,..... just realize that even then,.... you won't have enough to ensure that you never have to proxy something.

Even the higher level pledges are not going to have enough stuff to handle some of the crazier setups that you could choose to have. More likely than not, if you had gotten an Apprentice Pledge, or "Double-Captain", then you would have enough to run two lairs of one type at a time,.... having enough for four lairs of one type is likely not in the cards unless you are a bit silly with your additional purchases.

The lion's share of the expansion stuff that was offered during the KS will be available at retail later this year; so if retail was your only option,... you'd have the opportunity to buy Elementals for example, should you not get your hands on an Ebay deal.

an Ebay pledge deal is still likely going to be cheaper than buying it all at a discounted on-line retailer,.... and you would get some of the little extras available to KS backers.

I hope you find one!

Agreed with Yamato for the most part. The little guys provide enough variety, but I do think they should have either included another miniboss and boss, either with minis or (to keep costs low) provided 2 sets of rules for each (i.e. the Terror could have also been a more fragile miniboss, and Yardu could have also been a boss skeleton)

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Agreed with Yamato for the most part. The little guys provide enough variety, but I do think they should have either included another miniboss and boss, either with minis or (to keep costs low) provided 2 sets of rules for each (i.e. the Terror could have also been a more fragile miniboss, and Yardu could have also been a boss skeleton)

Yardu being the summoning boss who's minions that he summons aren't included in the base game, correct?

Yeah... I feel like something happened there, considering skeletons are on the box art, too.

I think the plan may have been for them to be in there originally,.... Maybe the retail price would have been too high.

That is the one part that really disappointed me in the base box. They should have made sweeping changes to remove those references,....gone with a different mini boss, etc.

Agreed, I think it's pretty clear that they intended to have 3 sets of enemies in the core game, considering the box art and that there are 3 categories of enemy (intelligent, instinct, undead).

I'm fine with them keeping a rule that interacts with expansions, but think they should have acknowledged it somewhere.

I think we will get some Wave 2 news soon too...

 yamato wrote:
I know that it is easy to get caught up in the hysteria of it all. Don't bother reading all the hyperbole over on BGG.

How the game functions is actually quite good,..... we are not talking about scrapping rules, or changing rules that did not work. Indeed the rule book itself was not structured very well, adn had some stuff missing,.... but they are fixing that..... and by fixing,.. they are not changing the rules of the game,... nothing is broken in the conventional sense.

they rules are just going to be more clearly stated in the new book. I've played many games, even before erratas and such came out.

The one thing that you really should have printed is the Card Reference. It clarifies most questions that you might have about card interaction., After you have played a few hands, you'll have the hang of it, and won't have to refer back to it.

As to the game being "incomplete" as a retail product,... not much more so than most of these games that are designed for you to buy more content. If you only play the game occasionally, then it has got everything that you need to have fun,.... If you are going to play a lot,.. well then you will want more enemy types and quests, and items, etc. to have a varied ongoing experience.

It is true that you can set up scenarios with the base box that it does just not have enough minis for (4 lairs on a double large tile for example), but the quests that are there only call for more than one lair very rarely,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All that said: I would not want to pay $60-$70 for a game that I'm only going to play rarely,.... so I will agree with the sentiment of wanting to get a Captain Pledge off of Ebay,..... just realize that even then,.... you won't have enough to ensure that you never have to proxy something.

Even the higher level pledges are not going to have enough stuff to handle some of the crazier setups that you could choose to have. More likely than not, if you had gotten an Apprentice Pledge, or "Double-Captain", then you would have enough to run two lairs of one type at a time,.... having enough for four lairs of one type is likely not in the cards unless you are a bit silly with your additional purchases.

The lion's share of the expansion stuff that was offered during the KS will be available at retail later this year; so if retail was your only option,... you'd have the opportunity to buy Elementals for example, should you not get your hands on an Ebay deal.

an Ebay pledge deal is still likely going to be cheaper than buying it all at a discounted on-line retailer,.... and you would get some of the little extras available to KS backers.

I hope you find one!

My two big problems with the rules, as in things that must be changed because they're dealbreakers, are 4x6 traps and treasure popping.

4x6 traps feel like they were written at a point in development when the darkness meter worked radically differently. Whoever wrote them forgot to take Loitering and the Refresh cycle into account. Needing to disarm the trap before AP hits 6 is ridiculous.

Treasure only popping when three minions die in a single attack overvalues AoE and makes the more single target heroes feels less useful. I'd much prefer a treasure meter like SDE.

Area where the game needs to be expanded is progression. "Title or new card from Story Quests and only Story Quests" just doesn't cut it.

 yamato wrote:
I think the plan may have been for them to be in there originally,.... Maybe the retail price would have been too high.

That is the one part that really disappointed me in the base box. They should have made sweeping changes to remove those references,....gone with a different mini boss, etc.

Heres the thing about that though... The $100 price point is fairly common for boardgames these days. If they were trying to price competitivly with their closest competition (even though they have no competition) Descent 2.0 they still didn't hit that mark either, Descent 2.0 costs less and comes with a few more models.

I realise that I've been coming off as extremly negative, but that's not really my intent. This is one of the few big Kickstarters that I missed and I honestly at this point dont know if it's worth the money or not to pick a pledge level up on ebay. At some point down the line it might be the greatest game of all time, but right now the majority of the reviews are rather negative. Their main points are the rulebook, a feeling of an incomplete base game and quest lines that don't go anywhere...

I don't know how many of you guys are familiar with Tom Vassel, but he's one of the better known boardgame reviewers. Megacon flew an employ down to Flordia to teach Tom the game before he reviewed it...

I'd like to know where that came from, because I saw where they talked to Tom on the phone, and answered only a couple of questions around game play. This is the first that I'm hearing that someone flew down to show them how to play????

I am realistic, and not just a blind fan boy,..... I do think that the whole rule book thing is really embarasing,... and I do not like the choices to include all of the counters and such in the main game,.... I think it is fine to talk about expansion stuff in the book, and show the models and such,... but the tokens for all of the expansion quests gets a bit overwhelming and confusing,...

though the worst things are including the hero tokens for exclusive characters that can't be had outside of KS? Now, perhaps people might have a chance to get them through KS again,.... but my feeling is that they should only have the basic stuff in there,.... if you get a new hero, it should have its stuff with it,.... same with a quest deck,... if it requires more tokens,... then have them come with the deck.

I'm fine with not having all the quest strings in the base game,.... if they included them, they'd have to leave out thers,.... and that would make the game feel very linear (which is the exact opposite of how it is meant to be played). When you complete one chain quest, and it says to add a particular quest to your deck, you don't (in most cases) play that quest right away,.... it just gets added to your potential encounters moving forward,... I like that you will continue to encounter the same characters, and pick up on previous stuff at a later date,..... I really don't want a game that makes you play A-B-C,.... so this is a plus for me.

They should however explain this in the book,.... that not all of the further chain quests are in the box,... and that they are available in the quest expansions 1 and 2.

For me the big mistakes are with Yardu and the Souless spawn,..... and the inclusion of KS tokens. People will be vastly confused by this,... as the KS characters are not mentioned in the book,.... people who buy it off of the shelf will think that they are missing something from the box.

Hopefully a V2 box (way down the road) will be cleaned up quite a bit,.... not just a new rule book,... but shoring up some of these issues.

With all that,..... the game is really a pleasure to play,..... the 4x6 traps do take some serious skill and decision making,... I did not feel they were broken,..but I have not yet tried them all,....so I'll have to reserve my opinion.

We'll see if they get any tweaking.

 yamato wrote:
I'd like to know where that came from, because I saw where they talked to Tom on the phone, and answered only a couple of questions around game play. This is the first that I'm hearing that someone flew down to show them how to play????

I am realistic, and not just a blind fan boy,..... I do think that the whole rule book thing is really embarasing,... and I do not like the choices to include all of the counters and such in the main game,.... I think it is fine to talk about expansion stuff in the book, and show the models and such,... but the tokens for all of the expansion quests gets a bit overwhelming and confusing,...

though the worst things are including the hero tokens for exclusive characters that can't be had outside of KS? Now, perhaps people might have a chance to get them through KS again,.... but my feeling is that they should only have the basic stuff in there,.... if you get a new hero, it should have its stuff with it,.... same with a quest deck,... if it requires more tokens,... then have them come with the deck.

I'm fine with not having all the quest strings in the base game,.... if they included them, they'd have to leave out thers,.... and that would make the game feel very linear (which is the exact opposite of how it is meant to be played). When you complete one chain quest, and it says to add a particular quest to your deck, you don't (in most cases) play that quest right away,.... it just gets added to your potential encounters moving forward,... I like that you will continue to encounter the same characters, and pick up on previous stuff at a later date,..... I really don't want a game that makes you play A-B-C,.... so this is a plus for me.

They should however explain this in the book,.... that not all of the further chain quests are in the box,... and that they are available in the quest expansions 1 and 2.

For me the big mistakes are with Yardu and the Souless spawn,..... and the inclusion of KS tokens. People will be vastly confused by this,... as the KS characters are not mentioned in the book,.... people who buy it off of the shelf will think that they are missing something from the box.

Hopefully a V2 box (way down the road) will be cleaned up quite a bit,.... not just a new rule book,... but shoring up some of these issues.

With all that,..... the game is really a pleasure to play,..... the 4x6 traps do take some serious skill and decision making,... I did not feel they were broken,..but I have not yet tried them all,....so I'll have to reserve my opinion.

We'll see if they get any tweaking.

Brian pointed it out in the comments on one of the Kickstarter comments.

Pointed which out?

The whole "Fly Down to Teach Tom How To Play Before His Review" thing, I think!

 yamato wrote:
not much more so than most of these games that are designed for you to buy more content.

That's pretty much it. Games Workshop pulled something similar with their Advanced HeroQuest. Included a whole monster manual in the rulebook, and only included one Skaven sculpt.

Ideally, if you don't have the game, you should "try before you buy". Then wait until the second Myth KS, and see if it's a good value. If so, pledge, and pick up the base game and whatnot at the OLGS.

Oh dear, update 116 isn't good news:

Inventory has been done. We are missing several entire runs of the wave 2 stuff. We had asked that they try to do the entire run and put some of each type into the container. It appears, they were not able to do this.
I feel compelled to point out that while this was a specific request from us, we understand their situation. They were asked to produce a years’ worth of product and get at least some of said product I to us in one shipment. The total run of minis was around 2.4 million. It was a big job.
The unfortunate part is I know we have not had a 6th container pickup. I have correspondence out to all the people I have contact to associated with the printing of the minis and the logistics of the containers.
At this point, we are looking for solutions. When we discover the whens and wheres of the last Myth shipment, we’ll decide how to proceed. We’ll convey that information to you when we know more and have decided. At this point, we are leaning towards sending what we have to Ulisses and having the missing minis shipped directly to the EU. We’ll send a person there to assist with the arrival of the last of the figures and supervise the fulfillment.
Non-EU backers

As for non-EU international backers, you’ll have to wait until the missing minis arrive here. We understand if this causes you anger. We are looking for other solutions and are open to suggestions. We have considered opening up optional shipping for non-EU international backers who desire it at an added expense. You’ll have to let us know if this is something you want and we can make arrangements.
Domestic

Domestic wave 2 will have to wait until the international orders are done. We are not splitting up orders any more.
Apologies

Finally, we want to apologize. There are little things that we didn't understand at the beginning, that have snowballed into rather large delays. We take responsibility for all the problems with the shipments. It was, and continues to be, an eye-opener.
I have thought about going into details, but I think that I'll wait and when it is all done write up a final update/post-mortem and shed some light on some of the biggest issues we ran into and where the delays actually occurred. I think it will surprise you.
Once again, we are sorry.

So a container was lost? Or the containers are just a clusterfeth which will take weeks to sort out?

I am pretty happy with the product, and they are still not as bad as other companies delays, but this is just 'another expected unexpected delay'