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Ok so the title kind of says it all. im new into WM. have had a bit of a look around and decided i rather like the look of the menoth models.

im here wondering what suggestions people would have in regards to them, unit choices etc etc, not looking to be super competitive but more fun. To give a bit of an idea i like the idea of sitting back and lobbing bad things over some good infantrys heads.. now this probably isnt the perfect faction choice for this, but again, its more the look of them than anything...

so what kind of options are the best? to give an idea what i have ordered and should arrive sometime in the morning is the 2 player battle box, BRB ( not so big in WM haha) forces book, and a few extra models... nothing drastic yet.

So please fire away with suggestions and lets see what people come up with

Thanks in advance

I'm not a Menoth player but honestly? Play the a bunch of games with the battle box to get a feel for the game mechanics and interactions between models, casters, spells ect.

WM/H is a much more complex game system than 40k if that's what your coming from. It doesn't do well with spamming this or that unit approach.

Battle College does a good job of giving you a solid overview of different units and casters, just make sure your looking at the MKII pages. The PP forums have faction specific sub-forums as well to help you.

Good luck and I hope you find the game as satisfying as most of us do.

Thoughts:

-play battlebox first, get the hang of the game, as you advance in how you play, get things to adjust.
-it isn't like 40k in that the higher point values really start to open things up

since you have the battlebox I would suggest:
-choir, 1 or 2 vassels of menoth (not the battle engine, the solo)
-vanquishers (I believe box has 1) with choir/vassel are solid ranged options
-your 2 player box comes with bastions IIRC< which are fairly solid infantry, abit slow.play around a bit but your options are:

-zealots, the bombs they pack are great for clearing infantry, the minifeat with the unit attachment lets them hold the front line for a turn at least
-knights exemplar: beatsticks, depending on caster they are pretty good, if you get the squad down to 1-2 they can do horrifying damage on the charge
-knight errants: about half way between zealots and knights, they have magical weapons which helps against some things, and their wound allocation rule helps hold objectives
-daughters: caster dependent again, but are hard to hit and pretty much shred 1 wound models
-temple flame guard: are cheap, tough guys, good at holding a line, with the unit attachment they can have ranked which means they dont block line of sight for shooting
cleansers: are "bad" but can put out a very powerful, unexpected blast with their combined attack, fragile and weak.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
Ok so the title kind of says it all. im new into WM. have had a bit of a look around and decided i rather like the look of the menoth models.

im here wondering what suggestions people would have in regards to them, unit choices etc etc, not looking to be super competitive but more fun. To give a bit of an idea i like the idea of sitting back and lobbing bad things over some good infantrys heads.. now this probably isnt the perfect faction choice for this, but again, its more the look of them than anything...

so what kind of options are the best? to give an idea what i have ordered and should arrive sometime in the morning is the 2 player battle box, BRB ( not so big in WM haha) forces book, and a few extra models... nothing drastic yet.

So please fire away with suggestions and lets see what people come up with

Thanks in advance

Menoth has exellent options if you want to lobb things at your enemy.. First of this is what you need

Warcaster
pServerious (not the epic).. This caster is really fun to play and he is deadly... Eye of menoth upkeep spell gives a +1 to all attack rolls and +1 to all damage rolls... Marked for death spell lets you reroll missid hits etc etc. With Focus 8, he has a control range of 16 inches.. His only drawback is that he has ARM 14 And DEF 14 so you have to keep him out of harms way... The 16 Inch control area you can lob deadly spells 24-26 inches away from him if you are using an Archnode..

Warjacks..
Redeemer .. You wanted to lobb things right? this is the jack you should get, preferably 2 of them.. Now it might not look so good as it gets -4 to hit things with the gun and have an effective base MAT of 1.. BUT.. with choir and pserverious it now has MAT 4 and if it aims (stands still) it has MAT 6 and it can make 3 shoots per turn... at 16 inch range, and if you have archnoded Marked for death on the target, they get to reroll all missed hit MUAHAHA Assassination DEATH!!! And lets not forget he hits for POWER 15 with choir and Eye of menoth spell up and running..
Avatar of menoth... Superb Jack.. it can do so many things, its just crazy.. it also has decent speed of 5..
Blessing of vengence or a Revenger.. thes Warjacks are Archnodes.. you can sling spells through them.. the Blessing likes Serverious alot and makes his spells do more damage..
Reckoner; also a very good jack has reach like the avatar and speed 5.. and it can shoot when it charges and that is just exellent, if you dont have points to get an avatar in the Reckoner is what you should use instead

Troops
Choir of menoth.. This unit is a must for all Menoth players.. They give your Jacks +2 to attack rolls and +2 damage rolls, and can make your jack immune to both ranged and magic.. A MUST!!!
Exemplar Errants.. one of the best units we have for getting in the way and doing damage..
Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard makes the Errants even better..
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard because he lets you shoot on stealth

Solos
Vassal of Menoth Is a must.. he lets your jacks move after they get damage and he can also make them do an extra attack.. he helps your denail game alot.. he is a MUST, you can have more then one hehe
Wracks, nobody says No to extra focus.. they are really good with pserverious also
The Covenant of Menoth.. this dude is super good.. not only can make all of your examplar errants, jacks etc do fire damage, he can also stop them from getting knocked down..
Exemplar Errant Seneschal helps your errants even more and he is really deadly on his own...
Hierophant.. spells cost less and that is good.. when your most deadly spell on serverious cost 4 focus to cast..

Sadly the 2 player battlebox is not that good... all the choises above are better and more fun to play with to be honest..

 Nucflash wrote:

Warjacks..
Redeemer .. You wanted to lobb things right? this is the jack you should get, preferably 2 of them.. Now it might not look so good as it gets -4 to hit things with the gun and have an effective base MAT of 1.. BUT.. with choir and pserverious it now has MAT 4 and if it aims (stands still) it has MAT 6 and it can make 3 shoots per turn... at 16 inch range, and if you have archnoded Marked for death on the target, they get to reroll all missed hit MUAHAHA Assassination DEATH!!! And lets not forget he hits for POWER 15 with choir and Eye of menoth spell up and running..

I'd just like to interrupt you there
a redeemer is "okay" but a vanquisher fires one (two with a vassel) harder hitting, more accurate shots (w/ a larger blast iirc) with zero focus needed
a redeemer needs 2 just to shoot, the same 2 could be giving the vanquisher boosted damage on P+S 16 or 17, two vanquishers can do some serious damage to anything
the redeemer is superior vs infantry swarms, or efeora, or maybe high focus casters.
the vanquisher has a mellee presence, and hits single targets harder, but costs 2 more points (4 if you count a vassal, but the vassel shouldn't be baby sitting, just an option.

I like the redeemer in theory, in practice not being tethered to your caster to get sweet shot angles, and hitting harder has just worked better for me, but I usually run our lower focus casters to begin with.

Redeemer is made for Efeora.. 4x Shots at 21" away(after moving) That auto catches anything under the template on fire.

As for Casters.
Efeora
Pseverous
pKeross
eKeross
Harbinger

These to me are the factions best casters.

Units.
Temple Flameguard
Exemplar Errants (to me the best infantry unit in the game with defenders ward on them)
Choir (Every army should have a choir)

Solo's
Vassals (another auto include for what they bring)
Nicia
Wracks

Warjacks
Vanquisher is a 10 point jack in the eyes of most menoth players. Its 8 pts, but should always have a vassal.. 2 pts lets this thing shoot twice.. doubling its effectivness.

Reckoner - Amazing 8pt jack, SPD 5.. Reach.. which you will find is huge, high Pow Mace, and a very nice gun.

Blessing of Vengence - Psevy's go to Arc node
Avatar... Goes with anyone.
Redeemer - Sticks with efeora or Pkeross



Now im not saying the other options arent good, im just saying these are the Stand outs from playing menoth that i have very good luck with and Enjoy.

It sounds to me that you want to use Deliverers

They have 16" shooting range, and specialize in lobbing scary aoes into the enemy line

Redeemers are really good. With their long range that lets them Aim more often and Choir bonuses (seriously, Choir should probably be your first buy) they have a deceptively accurate gun. pKreoss LOVES them hands down as that's a lot of Hits when he pops his Feat. eFeora loves one for the Bond to throw auto fire AOEs everywhere. They're good with pSevvy because Eye Of Menoth further helps accuracy and all that Blast damage.

Two player starter unfortunately comes with Cinerators, not Bastions. It's not that Cinerators are Bad per say... It's just that Bastions are pretty much always a better choice to take. Why theyre giving Bastions a solo to make them even better yet rather than a Cinerator solo is an odd choice IMHO. Cinerators are one of those things I would not reccomend buying, but if you've got someone to split the two player starter with, well hell they're free at that point so it's definitely worth it then.

Otherwise good things to get are the Choir, Vassels, the Battle Engine is good, Avatar is really good, Redeemer and Reconer and really all the Menoth ReJacks. Any of the knights minus the aforementioned Cinerators. Errants plus UA plus the Merc Ruppert is so damned annoying for your opponent to deal with. They're Menoth's "broken" unit.

The things I don't see or hear are not as good would be the Sunburst artillery and Deliverers. Crusaders are usually looked down on for having neither a gun nor Reach.

 AduroT wrote:

The things I don't see or hear are not as good would be the Sunburst artillery and Deliverers. Crusaders are usually looked down on for having neither a gun nor Reach.

Deliverer are godly, but aren't used as much because in tournaments you don't have time to roll scatter for it all, but in casual games DELICIOUS DELIVERERS, Sunburst is pretty lame.

A Crusader never hurts including as a way to finish a list, (6pt beatstick is 6pt beatstick afterall) but you won't see anyone say, This is my Crusader List, its a list based on my Crusaders... Unless you are using the 5pt Crusader Spam List...

Kind of like the 5pt Slayer spam lists.

just got my starter set in... and does PP NOT include assembly instructions? iv got giant bags of a million bits lol

Haha yeah get used to that...

I tend to either ask here or use the privateer press gallery images. Between the 2 it all gets done

They include assembly instructions on the back of the Warjack and unit boxes, which you didn't get if you got the starter.

 AduroT wrote:
They include assembly instructions on the back of the Warjack and unit boxes, which you didn't get if you got the starter.

3 unit boxes and 0 instructions, all there is, is a pic of the unit... havent seen the jack boxes yet but.... all good i got there in the end... shame you need to shorten the stand parts on lots of the metal models but you get there

 Grundz wrote:

 Nucflash wrote:

Warjacks..
Redeemer .. You wanted to lobb things right? this is the jack you should get, preferably 2 of them.. Now it might not look so good as it gets -4 to hit things with the gun and have an effective base MAT of 1.. BUT.. with choir and pserverious it now has MAT 4 and if it aims (stands still) it has MAT 6 and it can make 3 shoots per turn... at 16 inch range, and if you have archnoded Marked for death on the target, they get to reroll all missed hit MUAHAHA Assassination DEATH!!! And lets not forget he hits for POWER 15 with choir and Eye of menoth spell up and running..

I'd just like to interrupt you there
a redeemer is "okay" but a vanquisher fires one (two with a vassel) harder hitting, more accurate shots (w/ a larger blast iirc) with zero focus needed
a redeemer needs 2 just to shoot, the same 2 could be giving the vanquisher boosted damage on P+S 16 or 17, two vanquishers can do some serious damage to anything
the redeemer is superior vs infantry swarms, or efeora, or maybe high focus casters.
the vanquisher has a mellee presence, and hits single targets harder, but costs 2 more points (4 if you count a vassal, but the vassel shouldn't be baby sitting, just an option.

I like the redeemer in theory, in practice not being tethered to your caster to get sweet shot angles, and hitting harder has just worked better for me, but I usually run our lower focus casters to begin with.

First of I dont want to put you down here or anything but. You are wrong, and I guess you base your point of view from playing low focus casters.. Redeemers are really really good if you know how to play them..

First of the Vanquisher is a 8 pts cost model with an RNG of 10 and a ROF 1and a RAT of 6 if we compare this with the Reedemer (under pserverious control, because that is what i sugested) Its a 6pts model with RNG 16 (this is a huge diffrence) and ROF 3(this is also a hug diffrence) and it has a low MAT but with pServerious it becomes 6 if it aims and you are using a choir(and everyone should have a choir its auto include option in menoth).. Its Damage also becomes 15 with pServerious and choir.. So now you can lob 3 shots per turn(4 with vassal, but I would be using it for giving the Avatar of menoth enliven instead, also the out of activation shot only shoots on RAT 4)... So for 2pts more then your costly Vanquisher 8pts vassal 2pts combo... I get a 2 Reedemers at 12pts these Two can now lobb 6 shot's AOE 3 per turn at a whooping 16 inches.. and each will hit for power 15.. also with pserverious/choir the blast damage is 9(base 12 halved to 6 then +3, because that is how it is calculated). Blast damage of 9 can kill things with 15 armour, like banethralls etc. Also with pServerious death sentance up and running on an enemy caster(you put this on the enemy with an archnode you run up field with).. you can now reroll all missed hits with the Redeemers. These 2 ligth jacks can also screen pServerious from harm and enemy ranged attacks.. if needed..

If you are not using the Avatar you can put in a Reckoner to make this combo even deadlier.. Remeber it can shoot and charge, and gets to shoot even if it fails the charge... this means you can charge 8 inch and shoot 12inch (effective threat range 20 and that is huge).. so fail charge enemy caster shoot with Reckoner, get flare on him. He is now on -2 DEF... Unload on him with the Reedemers 3 shoots each..

Now pServerious is an 8 Focus caster, with Wracks he can become a 9 Focus caster, for alteast 3 turns.. and with a Hierophant you can cast one spell for one less focus point... This means that you can put 2 focus on the Reckoner and 2 focus on each of the reedemers.. one focus on the archnode (so that it can run).. Upkeep Eye of menoth..

Run in with The archnode.. activate pServerious.. use Wracks get 1 focus.. channel Death sentance for 1 Focus...

Activate choir.. put +2 on hit and +2 to damage on all your jacks..

After this you charge(spend first focus) with the Reckoner and boost to hit with his cannon flare gun.. effective RAT 8 (with pserverious and choir Lolz) 3 dice to hit (spend second focus)and reroll if he misses..

Activate Redemers who now have a 16 RNG and 6 RAT (if they aim and if you are playing a scenario/steamroller game enemy caster should not be that far away) But if you need to move you are on RAT 4 but you stiill get to reroll ALL missed attacks (becuse of death sentance, that you really should not have miss with pServerious 9 to hit(+1 for eye of menoth) and 3 dice with focus boost if you put one less focus on one Reedemer).. they shoot 3 times each(spending 2 focus) or 2 times if they boost to hit or damage or 1 time with boost to both hit and damage. Depending on Def and arm of the caster and how much life he has left. And the enemy caster is on -2 DEF(because of Reckoners flare)....and its POWER 15.... BOOM dead caster... If you have the points you could have had a The Covenant of Menoth in the army.. so one redeemer has continous fire on his attacks also... LOLZ. Even if the enemy caster survive this.. he needs to kill you on his next turn, Because Death sentance is a an upkeep spell.. so those Redeemers will keep on shooting...either way he needs to scramble out of the way.. and with enliven running on the Reckoner(and personaly I would be running anti knockdown from the covenant instead of fire damage) it will probably survive a counter attack and now also threaten his caster..

No Vanquisher in existance can match this... also the Redeemers can shoot out enemy infantry very effectivly. I will take the Longer 16 RNG and the potential of ROF 3 all day long over a larger template with RNG 10 ROF 1... sorry it is a huge diffrence (the Vassal should suport your main Melee Jack, avatar or Reckoner, not spend his time on a vanquisher).. playing against close combat armies that extra range will kick into effect alot faster then what the Vanquisher RNG 10 Gun can.. Also the OP wanted to lobb things from far away.. and over his units (Knights Errants.. because they are the best trust me)... and vassal, should put enliven on your Main Warjack (Avatar or Reckoner) SPEED 5 and Reach(2 inches to hit in melee instead of 0,5 makes all the diffrence on a charge.. and for blocking with free strikes, if something tries to sneak past), and that is superior to all our other jacks with SPEED 4 and no REACH... If you want a heavy Jack (archnodes and Redeemers are light) it should be either the Reckoner or the Avatar... Hands down.. if you are playing pServerious..(and frankly most of our other casters also)

Also the best casters we have are pserverious, the Harbinger and Feora (if you are running our battle engine with her so you can move around fire with here feat.. putting it on enemy caster)..

sorry for the long rant.. but saying you should pick a vanquisher over reedemers??? what are you smocking, or do you not play steamroller scenarios? or are not that competative a player??


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:
Redeemers are really good. With their long range that lets them Aim more often and Choir bonuses (seriously, Choir should probably be your first buy) they have a deceptively accurate gun. pKreoss LOVES them hands down as that's a lot of Hits when he pops his Feat. eFeora loves one for the Bond to throw auto fire AOEs everywhere. They're good with pSevvy because Eye Of Menoth further helps accuracy and all that Blast damage.

Two player starter unfortunately comes with Cinerators, not Bastions. It's not that Cinerators are Bad per say... It's just that Bastions are pretty much always a better choice to take. Why theyre giving Bastions a solo to make them even better yet rather than a Cinerator solo is an odd choice IMHO. Cinerators are one of those things I would not reccomend buying, but if you've got someone to split the two player starter with, well hell they're free at that point so it's definitely worth it then.

Otherwise good things to get are the Choir, Vassels, the Battle Engine is good, Avatar is really good, Redeemer and Reconer and really all the Menoth ReJacks. Any of the knights minus the aforementioned Cinerators. Errants plus UA plus the Merc Ruppert is so damned annoying for your opponent to deal with. They're Menoth's "broken" unit.

The things I don't see or hear are not as good would be the Sunburst artillery and Deliverers. Crusaders are usually looked down on for having neither a gun nor Reach.

Good post glad to see someone here atleast understands how you play menoth

Now pServerious is an 8 Focus caster, with Wracks he can become a 11 Focus caster

wait what?

8
-1 for a spell heirophant
+1 for a wrack

... thats it? you can only eat one wrack per turn, unless i've been doing it REALLY wrong

also like I said, a redeemer is better if you just want shoot, a vanquisher brings more to the table IMHO I've only gone to a few tourneys so far, with a fairly good group (imho) and haven't placed below third.
I just straight up like the vanquisher more, he can go wandering off by himself without the need for focus much of the time (which for me, having a odd angle attacker is more valuable than having somewhat more shoot) and if someone wanders close, he can put the beat down on them which the redeemer relies on its range to keep it alive.

Different jacks for different folks, I like the "move up, shoot, repeat until charge" that the vanquisher can do with minimal support more than I like the focus investment in a redeemer, Then again I tend to play fast and loose and camp focus alot because of it.

Also note: a recent masters winner runs 2 vanquishers in one of his lists (and a redeemer in the other iirc)

 Grundz wrote:
Now pServerious is an 8 Focus caster, with Wracks he can become a 11 Focus caster

wait what?

8
-1 for a spell heirophant
+1 for a wrack

... thats it? you can only eat one wrack per turn, unless i've been doing it REALLY wrong

also like I said, a redeemer is better if you just want shoot, a vanquisher brings more to the table IMHO I've only gone to a few tourneys so far, with a fairly good group (imho) and haven't placed below third.
I just straight up like the vanquisher more, he can go wandering off by himself without the need for focus much of the time (which for me, having a odd angle attacker is more valuable than having somewhat more shoot) and if someone wanders close, he can put the beat down on them which the redeemer relies on its range to keep it alive.

Different jacks for different folks, I like the "move up, shoot, repeat until charge" that the vanquisher can do with minimal support more than I like the focus investment in a redeemer, Then again I tend to play fast and loose and camp focus alot because of it.

Also note: a recent masters winner runs 2 vanquishers in one of his lists (and a redeemer in the other iirc)

Yeep sorry you are correct, bad wording on my part... my bad.. you only need that one focus to pull of the combo , and that is how i play it. And there are better options for the army for 8 points then the vanquisher i feel.. Reckoner comes to mind. But as you said if you have a lower FOCUS caster.. i would not use the Redeemers.. I like them with things that can give them extra boost.. period like pServerious and a few others..

The reason I prefer the Reckoner is because of the Reach and speed, and even if he dosen't have an AOE.. the flare shooting gun shoots longer (gives a debuff), and do a 13 Power damage(16 with pServerious/choir).. But main reason is the speed for board control and Reach... its just to good to pass up..

Thresher is also really crappy on the vanquisher without reach.. 0,5 melee range you wont hit many with that..

oh yeah, reckoner is king, but thats why i'm not comparing a vanq to him

my usual 50 list with rez is 2x vanquishers, a reck and another jack, I used to run BOS because going coast to coast in one turn with enliven, witch hunt, perdition, his ability and normal move is hilarious, but I only pull it off on people i'm going to win anyway
Been toying with a sanctifier, enliven -> perdition -> running him way beyond my command radius loaded up with souls is something ive found very few people are fully prepared for. In friendlier games i'll run a guardian because I love iron aggression and critical pitch

I just wish rez had 1 more focus, or something to boost his perdition damage for free, its just too costly for something that is such a tossup with only magic 6 and low POW

How many run magic damage that you come up against? I pulled of a real upset using 2 paladins and the paladin Vilmon solo.. making them totaly immune against the opponents infantry... hehe was really fun having Vilmon in the middle with reach and the 2 others on the side... enemy had no kavalleri either so I just planted them in a zone. And the only thing with magic damage was the enemy caster hehe

Another fun fight was against the trollblood player we have in our club.. He had just got the Mountain King (and tought it was invincible or something). He faild to protect if from a charge from my Avatar.. But I dident manage to kill him... Then I charged in with the two Visgoth protectors Gius and Cassian(they are weapon masters after all).. Power 13 with pServrious and finished the Mountain king with 2 decent rolls hahah... the shock on his face when it died was awsome to behold..

I play a denail game with my menoth.. use covenant to stop knockdowns, use vassal on the Avatar, enliven( i play that jack alot it is just so good).. and put the +2 arm spell from pServerious on him.. he gets really hard to kill with so much armour and the ability to sneak away after he gets damaged the first time...

 Nucflash wrote:
How many run magic damage that you come up against? I pulled of a real upset using 2 paladins and the paladin Vilmon solo.. making them totaly immune against the opponents infantry... hehe was really fun having Vilmon in the middle with reach and the 2 others on the side... enemy had no kavalleri either so I just planted them in a zone. And the only thing with magic damage was the enemy caster hehe

not "a lot" but its not just magic damage, its magic debuffs too, which are more and more common as people need to stack stuff up to kill collossals in a matchup which is usually "apply buffed superjack to face" reznik usually does pretty well.

though i've dropped the cleansers, it was fun for a while to see people expect a charging reznik beatdown list, and instead drop 2x pow 20 ish cleaner shots 4 damage boosed vanq shots and a boosted reck shot on them

I've faced the damage immune jerk issue before, and my solution was just slamming them/throwing them out of my face, too many people just try to kill everything, but like against family values troll lists that spam champions, if you can slam or throw something at infantry, you dont have to kill them, they can't do anything to begin with

 Grundz wrote:

 Nucflash wrote:
How many run magic damage that you come up against? I pulled of a real upset using 2 paladins and the paladin Vilmon solo.. making them totaly immune against the opponents infantry... hehe was really fun having Vilmon in the middle with reach and the 2 others on the side... enemy had no kavalleri either so I just planted them in a zone. And the only thing with magic damage was the enemy caster hehe

not "a lot" but its not just magic damage, its magic debuffs too, which are more and more common as people need to stack stuff up to kill collossals in a matchup which is usually "apply buffed superjack to face" reznik usually does pretty well.

though i've dropped the cleansers, it was fun for a while to see people expect a charging reznik beatdown list, and instead drop 2x pow 20 ish cleaner shots 4 damage boosed vanq shots and a boosted reck shot on them

I've faced the damage immune jerk issue before, and my solution was just slamming them/throwing them out of my face, too many people just try to kill everything, but like against family values troll lists that spam champions, if you can slam or throw something at infantry, you dont have to kill them, they can't do anything to begin with

nasty things with paladins though is that they cant get knocked down... so they get slamed or thrown.. they still come back with a vengence next turn... hehe... I use anti knockdown tactics alot and the covenent is an auto include for me to stop the knockdowns.. on Errants also (if Im using the piper merc who gives them tough ...

My standard list is a rotation of, Avatar, Reckoner, Redeemers, Revenger, blessing of vengence, in diffrent combinations.. For troops i use Errants and choir only...and the Visgoth(need him against stealth).. solos its Covenent, vassals, Hiropanth, paladins and wracks in diffrent combinations.. all depends on what pts I play at, what I will be using or not... I mainly use pSeverious or eSev... only for using HEX blast.. as you said taking away uppkeep stuff is needed against somethings..
My main army is Circle.. so this little side army only gets to go out on the battlefield from time to time... The club i play in hate it, because it is full on denail all the time...And everything has super High MAT and RAT.. with Eye spell and choir.. You can hit really hard with menoth troops because of them all being weaponmasters also.. and +1 to hit and +1 to damage.. makes Errants very dangrous.. In combination with covenant(if you dont need anti knockdown) putting fire damage on them is also very good.. If things dont die the first turn they burn up the next hehe

 Nucflash wrote:

nasty things with paladins though is that they cant get knocked down... so they get slamed or thrown.. they still come back with a vengence next turn

well yeah, thats what I would be counting on, is I'd throw them off the objective that people usually count on them holding, and usually chase him with a choirboy or something so he's plenty engaged next turn, he can charge back in, not have his stance die to a free strike or take one swing at an infantry man and die next turn, or sac his attack and try to move back (probably the better option) they are really annoying if you have nothing to deal with it, but just setting them on fire so they take damage before their activation next turn does the job half the time and the other half they're stuck in terrain I threw them in or just standing around providing morale.

I just dont like them and have never had any luck with them, or I guess played someone good with them

 Grundz wrote:

 Nucflash wrote:

nasty things with paladins though is that they cant get knocked down... so they get slamed or thrown.. they still come back with a vengence next turn

well yeah, thats what I would be counting on, is I'd throw them off the objective that people usually count on them holding, and usually chase him with a choirboy or something so he's plenty engaged next turn, he can charge back in, not have his stance die to a free strike or take one swing at an infantry man and die next turn, or sac his attack and try to move back (probably the better option) they are really annoying if you have nothing to deal with it, but just setting them on fire so they take damage before their activation next turn does the job half the time and the other half they're stuck in terrain I threw them in or just standing around providing morale.

I just dont like them and have never had any luck with them, or I guess played someone good with them

I always use 3 if I field them with Vilmon.. no continous effects with him around and immune to everything but magic damage and do not suffer knockdowns.. Power 15 on 2 of them and Power 16 on Vilmon and 4 dices on the charge also makes them a real threat to most things.. You cant just ignore them.. Combine this with me constantly shooting 16 inches from the redeemers.. have an Avatar or Reckoner running around with 2 to arm 2+ def and enliven, who cant be knocked down because of the covenent.. the enemy often breaks in frustration.. also the Avatar is spell immune and can be non magical ranged Immune with choir.. I also always have an Archnode with the army.. Control 16 on pServerious makes it really easy to cast offencive and dangrous spells on the enemy, from far away.. Errants are mostly there to die and slow the enemy down, but with weapon maststers, quick work +1 damage +1 to hit they cant be ignored..

I find myself putting the Avatar on the table more then the Reckoner.. It gets free focus, cant be disrupted (because its given focus etc) and it can force people to move towards it.. I use it to pull people in the direction I want.. With enliven and anti knockdown running, and +2 arm and +2 def it is just Nightmarish to deal with... And having the Reedemers just bombard people there is nowhere to run... And Pserverious get more focus to spend on spells like ashes to ashes that he can sling from the archnode..

The reason i love pServerious over all other menoth casters is his ability to boost both troops, jacks and solos.. He dosent have one bad spell in his arsenal to be honest.. he also has one the best feats in the game vs othe Warmachine armies.. And against Hords he dosent need it hehe..

Thats just not true, because you cant have all those things at once. Examples:
1. they aren't immune to cont. effects, your immunity to damage wears off when your next turn starts, then the maint phase happens, and you pop. Immunity to damage doesn't give the immunity to cont. effects, for example you can set your own zealots on fire with feora, then move the fire to enemies with her feat even though they are immune to the damage.
2. if you're immune to everything with imp. wall, you aren't charging, or can move and not attack, or attack but not move so they're vulnerable a lot of the time if they are keeping up with any army with any sort of speed
3. being immune to knockdown just means I weapon lock instead of headbutt/slam to beat enliven, enliven is mega OP until you really get clever in getting around it, but with an avatar its a tall order to drop him without your initials with only one jack

 Grundz wrote:
Thats just not true, because you cant have all those things at once. Examples:
1. they aren't immune to cont. effects, your immunity to damage wears off when your next turn starts, then the maint phase happens, and you pop. Immunity to damage doesn't give the immunity to cont. effects, for example you can set your own zealots on fire with feora, then move the fire to enemies with her feat even though they are immune to the damage.
2. if you're immune to everything with imp. wall, you aren't charging, or can move and not attack, or attack but not move so they're vulnerable a lot of the time if they are keeping up with any army with any sort of speed
3. being immune to knockdown just means I weapon lock instead of headbutt/slam to beat enliven, enliven is mega OP until you really get clever in getting around it, but with an avatar its a tall order to drop him without your initials with only one jack

Yes I know this but as I said you have to deal with 3 paladains that hold an objective.. and not many people will commit 3 diffrent jacks to slam away 3 of them... there are other things to worry about also in the army.. and as far as I know if you dont get to put continous things on me if I am immune? or do I still burn if you hit me with a continous effect the turn I am immune?.. Continous effects resolve in the maintnance phase... witch would mean that if you still burn while you are immune you would still get hit with it in the maintnance phase, when you are no longer immune.. and then the ability would be pointless, as you cant activate it in the maintnance phase...

Also the Paladins hit hard as hell, that means you have to commit alot to deal with them, if you are planing on slaming them away for example.. Because next turn I would not mind dropping all defences and shutting down the warbeast, jack who slamed one of them away...

Also its much harder to pull off a weaponlock.. Unless you have really fast moving jack or warbeast... so as long as I stay out of 6-7 inch from enemy warjack, beast chanses are small he will be able to weapon lock me.. the avtar also charges 8+2 reach witch means I probably charge him dead long before any weaponlocks will happen... Slams on the other hand or knockdown shooting is dangrous but you can just stop that with covenent.. in Errata you cant weaponlock larger model anymore right?? so no fast moving small jacks will be able to weaponlock anything these days

Point Im making if you get a weaponlock on my avatar with a large beast or warjack I have screwed up terrible.. It wont happen.. I would have charged you long before that.. and killed your beast first.. and lets face it not many people are running more then 2 max 3 heavies in a 35pts-50pts list...

So even if he weaponlocks me with the second warjack (if he uses 2 in a 35pts list).. that jack wont brind down the avatar with 2 attacks(3 if he has a bond or something and can put 4 focus on it) not with Arm 23(+2 for the spell).. and he might miss also and have to boost.. the avatar is on defence 12(with spell).. I have had stalkers and other beasts miss a weaponlock when they wernt boosted and only had MAT 6....

My main threat though is not the Avatar.. he is just diversion.. its the Reedemers and.. Archnode that are dangrous.. putting death sentance on the enemy caster and blasting him to death... So if the opponent commits alot of things to kill of the Avatar.. my main assassination plan will work even better.. Becuase he dosent have enough things to deal with everything at the same time...

the way it works is, unless it specifically says you are immune to cont. effects, you aren't.
so he's not immune ot the /effect/ but he is immune to the damage, if the immunity is still active when he takes the damage (the maint phase) like if from a spell that grants immunity to fire or somesuch. but by the time your maint phase starts, he's no longer immune, so he pops.
the ability isn't pointless, it just has a loophole when it comes to cont. effects.

the throw is just to beat people that do things like "oh well i'm going to stand on this objective and there's nothing you cna do about it lolololo! I even had a guy once using a vigilant to push around vilmon who sacced his movement and could still swing at stuff, lol.

 Grundz wrote:
the way it works is, unless it specifically says you are immune to cont. effects, you aren't.
so he's not immune ot the /effect/ but he is immune to the damage, if the immunity is still active when he takes the damage (the maint phase) like if from a spell that grants immunity to fire or somesuch. but by the time your maint phase starts, he's no longer immune, so he pops.
the ability isn't pointless, it just has a loophole when it comes to cont. effects.

the throw is just to beat people that do things like "oh well i'm going to stand on this objective and there's nothing you cna do about it lolololo! I even had a guy once using a vigilant to push around vilmon who sacced his movement and could still swing at stuff, lol.

It clearly states that vilmon is In fact Immune to continous effects he is also immune to all damage that are not magic damage.. look it up.. and he grants that to all the paladins .. Model with Impervious wall is immune to continouse effects, does not suffer damage or effects froom non-magical ranged or melee attacks, and cannot be knocked down.. so I think they wont have to roll for damage in the maintnance phase..
Or do you mean it has to say you are immune to a special type of continous effect... as I see it if he isent immune the immune statement becomes pointless.. Becasue he can never use Impervious wall in the maintnance phase ever.. and you do not roll for continouse damage when you hit something with a fire attack, for example, that does continouse effect.. the power 12 roll comes after, and then we are into the next turn and impervious wall is not up.. because vilmon and his paladins have not activated... So I do not see the point in the Immune thing if he in fact is not immune

Haha pushing around Vilmon is beyoned cheezy lols

well thats news to me! I must be thinking of another annoying immune to damage dude and did it wrong at the time.

I have also found that the Avatar is beyoned OP.. in many things.. some reasons for this is

1. He recives focus.. he is not alocated focus.. there is a diffrence and many things that stop alocation do not work on him. this also means you dont have to worry about keeping him in your control area
2. No cortex means no interuptions (example is Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios etc)
3. Sacred Ward this model cannot be targeted by ENEMY spells.. so you can infact boost him yourself
4 Menoth Gaze.. Enemy models that BEGIN their activation whithin 8 of this model.. and in LOS can advance only towards this model.. not directly but still hehe
5. Flamburst.. you set things on fire one inch when you BOX a model.. not destroyed, can be important to keep an eye on...
6. Speed 5.. is huge for the slow moving menoth army
7. Reach the ability to hit 2 inches instead of the normal 0,5 melee range is very important in Warmahordes. Free strike range is much larger etc.. you can block charge paths..
8 He has really good base stats, high armour and lots of 32 hitboxes, magic weapon etc...

Combine the avatar with pSeverious and giving him +2arm and +2Def, its going to be hard to get it off him hehe, as he cant be targeted by spells.. Also if you also use vassal with enliven on him.. (with the new weaponlock rules from latest errata A model making headlock/weapon lock can lock a warjack or warbeast weapon or head to prevent its use if the target has an equal or smaller sized base). Most heavy jacks/beast are not that fast.. so moving in a fast speed 7 light something and locking him wont work anymore... Also with enliven you can effectivly move around the model that charged you and force even more units/jacks to move your way.. Clearing the path for your other things.. or keeping things on the other side of your flank from getting charged..

Avatar is hands down one of the beast weapons we have.. Not for killing but for forcing the enemy to play as we want.. moving where we want them to go.. He also is a dam good killer but after playing him a bit.. I find that his strong point is living long enough that the rest of your army can get in place and finish the game... (redeemers 6 shots pow 15 on enemy caster).. or archnode assassination from pSeverious hehe

With Choir and enliven you can make him immune to ranged damage.. and if the enemy has one magic cannon you can use that to move forward, not unlike hyper agressive..