Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Here's an interesting scenario.
NK launches missile capable of reaching the US.
1. NK then tells the US it has 90 days to leave SK or it will fire its vast horde of nukes at San Francisco (I'd say hllywood but too many people would volunteer to push the button). What do you do?

Call Whitman AFB and tell them to get the B-2s ready for action. Then tell NK that if they do we erase their country with our own nuclear arsenal, in standing with our 60-year old policy involving the use of WMD against us.

2. NK invades South Korea. NK says stay out or we'll nuke you, or nuke your ships. What do you do?

Looks like the cease-fire is off and America's longest continuous war is hot again. Given that we still have troops on the ground on the border, a NK invasion of SK is going to kill Amercian soldiers - so we're already at war so we CAN'T stay out. So we fight the war, and if remind Kim about our existing policy about the use of WMD against us.

3 NK invades SK. NK nukes a city in SK, and says if the US retaliates it will nuke the US.

Again, given that any significant action by NK against SK will kill America troops, we enforce our existing policy about the use of WMD agaisnt us. NK ceases to exist.

4. NK nukes Seoul. NK says it the US retaliates it will nuke the US.

Just a variation on #3. Only this time we lost a LOT more troops in the initial strike.

Are you going to be the President when tens of thousands of American civilians are killed by a nuke?

What nuke frazzled? It takes them up to a month to prepare a detonation of a weapon that still hasn't quite reached Hiroshima sized.

Their missile technology is still hit or miss.

There is no way they have yet figured out how to miniaturize the weapon enough to be placed on an ICBM. That technology is still pretty far out there for them.

And then your just discounting our ICBM defense, which has been in operation for half a decade already, and it just getting more and more beefed up.

 Frazzled wrote:
Are you going to be the President when tens of thousands of American civilians are killed by a nuke?

Highly unlikely I'll be President of ANYTHING, much less the U.S.A. But it works like this: You can't let a madman hold YOU hostage by threatening innocents. At some point you MUST act to stop him. That's why the police never just give up and let, say, a bank robber go free just because he has a hostage. They stick around and wear him down... and if he doesn't give up, they move in and take him out - all the way out, if necessary.

NK can talk smack all they want. If they act on it, they find out there's a reason the Russians never did.

A full blown nuclear exchange is incredibly unlikely. I don't think that any western power could justify dealing with any human threat by using nuclear weapons. The USA certainly can't face a "threat" to itself like NK by nuking it...

 djones520 wrote:
What nuke frazzled? It takes them up to a month to prepare a detonation of a weapon that still hasn't quite reached Hiroshima sized.

Their missile technology is still hit or miss.

There is no way they have yet figured out how to miniaturize the weapon enough to be placed on an ICBM. That technology is still pretty far out there for them.

And then your just discounting our ICBM defense, which has been in operation for half a decade already, and it just getting more and more beefed up.

So what you're really telling me is...now is the perfect time to strike.

Cry havoc! and let slip the BADGER DOGS of War!

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

.

Those officers sure have great trigger discipline with their pistols.
Also around 10.00 they are apparently using nearly empty ammo belts for shooting which is legit as hell.

Whole thing is probably just another round of saber rattling.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
North Korea's nuclear capacity is barely passed where the U.S. was in 1949. I'm not concerned about their weapons. I am concerned about the consequences for South Koreans and Japan, I have lots of friends in both areas.

This for me, if you add concern for the masses of people in North Korea. It would be some very sad days.

Well, on behalf of the United Kingdom I'd just like to say: 'Good luck with all that. Let us know how you get on. Drop us a text, or something.'

So... I woke up today to hear that NK had cut all contact off with SK.

This is ratcheting up to something that could be a major problem. Up until now, I hadn't really given NK any serious consideration. Now, I'm not so sure.

Hopefully, none of the 2nd ID is deployed in Afghanistan, and they're all available to stand the line. We might end up needing them to slow NK's conventional forces long enough to get reinforcements in place.

Well, right now we have major forces holding combined arms training maneuvers there. If its going to happen now would be the worst time for NK to try anything. Most experts say nothing while this is going on. Might get some shelling / SK ship or such blown up after.

UNLESS something gets out of hand of course.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Well guys, remember NK's record of "Satellite launching" and how well they went.

That is all.

Considering they were successful, that's hardly comforting...

Successful doing what? Toppling over into the Sea of Japan?

No, succeeding in launching a satellite into orbit.

Wouldn't you need to regain control of it to successfully be in orbit? and How long does in orbit constitute?

 fire4effekt wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Well guys, remember NK's record of "Satellite launching" and how well they went.

That is all.

Considering they were successful, that's hardly comforting...

Successful doing what? Toppling over into the Sea of Japan?

No, succeeding in launching a satellite into orbit.

Wouldn't you need to regain control of it to successfully be in orbit? and How long does in orbit constitute?

Wait, regain control? They didn't lose it in the first place. And I'd assume that "in orbit" requires the satellite to be in a stable orbit. Otherwise there'd be no point in using it as a benchmark.

Here's the main issue. NK has a lot of artillery along the border that can reach Seoul. That's a lot of damage and a lot of dead South Koreans. Were I PoTUS, I'd have a coordinated "first strike" of cluster munitions, artillery and naval gunfire to shock & awe the DMZ and areas north where their artillery and big guns are. Then I'd have airstrikes and naval gunfire bomb/shell hardened targets and that nuke plant they're using as well as the NK capital. Then the Marines would head up from the south and land along the coast and move inland, killing anyone who doesn't surrender. The push to the Chinese border should take less than a day. Chinese who move into NK would be legal targets and I'd have them hit hard.

I'd save the nukes for China in case a bloody nose doesn't convince them to choose their fights better.

 Breotan wrote:
killing anyone who doesn't surrender.

...not sure if serious.

 Breotan wrote:
Here's the main issue. NK has a lot of artillery along the border that can reach Seoul. That's a lot of damage and a lot of dead South Koreans. Were I PoTUS, I'd have a coordinated "first strike" of cluster munitions, artillery and naval gunfire to shock & awe the DMZ and areas north where their artillery and big guns are. Then I'd have airstrikes and naval gunfire bomb/shell hardened targets and that nuke plant they're using as well as the NK capital. Then the Marines would head up from the south and land along the coast and move inland, killing anyone who doesn't surrender. The push to the Chinese border should take less than a day. Chinese who move into NK would be legal targets and I'd have them hit hard.

I'd save the nukes for China in case a bloody nose doesn't convince them to choose their fights better.

The Chinese aren't going to back NK's play this time around, you'll notice they've been significantly distancing themselves. Even going so far as to openly support the new round of UN resolutions. North Korea has lost it's only friend. While Breotan's wording is a little rough "Killing any one who won't surrender" might be an accurate term for what would have to be done in the event of invading, and liberating North Korea. Their army reserves total most of their population and they have had a very long time to intimidate and brain wash these people...

If the war went hot China wouldn't touch NK with a ten foot pole. I'm not convinced Norht Korea can really nuke anything, assuming they can somehow get a nuke into an ICBM, and launch it it at the US. If they did that they still have to get past the aegis missile defense system that the US navy has, I believe the US deployed Aegis capable ships to the west coast in the past few weeks. If, and this is a big if, a nuke goes off on US soil, or even Japanese or South Korean soil, I think the US would be well within their rights to make North Korea not there anymore. Even in a conventional war, remember Georgia in 2008? Imagine something like that, an absolute pasting.

 Breotan wrote:
Here's the main issue. NK has a lot of artillery along the border that can reach Seoul. That's a lot of damage and a lot of dead South Koreans. Were I PoTUS, I'd have a coordinated "first strike" of cluster munitions, artillery and naval gunfire to shock & awe the DMZ and areas north where their artillery and big guns are. Then I'd have airstrikes and naval gunfire bomb/shell hardened targets and that nuke plant they're using as well as the NK capital. Then the Marines would head up from the south and land along the coast and move inland, killing anyone who doesn't surrender. The push to the Chinese border should take less than a day. Chinese who move into NK would be legal targets and I'd have them hit hard.

I'd save the nukes for China in case a bloody nose doesn't convince them to choose their fights better.

And thus, Breotan eloquently explains why he is not our President.

Sometimes this is how I feel about north korea

 EmilCrane wrote:
Sometimes this is how I feel about north korea

I'd say thats fairly accurate.

An invasion of the mainland would be difficult to pull off, First we know there are between 12-27 nuclear weapons and that none of them are capable of being launched (to large) so you use them defensively, second you have 24 million people who are brainwashed to kill Americans (9 million of those forming the military).

Now lets put ourselves in The Great Successor's shoes, First we look over the terrain of our country and determine where the American Ground forces would attack from and what routes they would take to arrive at the Capital, Knowing this we take the nukes we have and Hide them in key location along those different routes (Some near the DMV while saving some for our capital). Okay now the American have Landed and our overall goal is to wipe out the largest portion of the main force with one of the nukes, so we need our Meatshield army to either Draw/push the American Forces over the various nukes. But lets say that the Americans Evade all of our hidden nukes, and are now rolling on to the Capital, we Wait for the bulk of the ground fighting force to be within the city or close enough to be affected by the Radiation, and set the remaining nukes off.

but then agian that would be my Strategy for a Very blood and very violent Defence in which I would lose in the End but I but I made the Enemy Suffer... a lot. Heck then there is the damage the radiation would cause to that part of asia

If North Korea lit the fuse on a Nuke. I think China'd step up with us too. Thats crossing a huge line. They've pretty much already lost there only friend. NK lights a nuke off and china would probably be on their ass too. Its damn close to their territory to be blowing those suckers up

 DA's Forever wrote:
If North Korea lit the fuse on a Nuke. I think China'd step up with us too. Thats crossing a huge line. They've pretty much already lost there only friend. NK lights a nuke off and china would probably be on their ass too. Its damn close to their territory to be blowing those suckers up

Why? China is actively enjoying this. They could shut this down at any time by turning off the gas, but they don't. It helps to keep us distracted while they expand in the Pacific.

Im pretty sure America would say "Awww look at that tiny nuke! Here NK, play with some of our M.O.A.B.s, enjoy *pats head*"

 Frazzled wrote:

 DA's Forever wrote:
If North Korea lit the fuse on a Nuke. I think China'd step up with us too. Thats crossing a huge line. They've pretty much already lost there only friend. NK lights a nuke off and china would probably be on their ass too. Its damn close to their territory to be blowing those suckers up

Why? China is actively enjoying this. They could shut this down at any time by turning off the gas, but they don't. It helps to keep us distracted while they expand in the Pacific.

You're joking right? Because China wouldn't want all that fallout to possibly blow over their land? That fallout could screw up the sea around North Korea? China doesn't care about the enviornment, but that many potential industry and workers being put at risk isn't something they would take lightly I'm sure. Having a nuke blow up practically right next door isn't a joke, even if its some crappy North Korean one.

If it stayed a conventional ground war I'd doubt they would care though. They're probably watching the North Koreans even harder than we are.

even if its some crappy North Korean one.

That made me chuckle. But its true, a rusted out little Geo Metro can still F up a brand new, shiny, expensive Mercedes in a wreck.

 KingCracker wrote:
Im pretty sure America would say "Awww look at that tiny nuke! Here NK, play with some of our M.O.A.B.s, enjoy *pats head*"

You do realize that a MOAB has a blast yield of around 0.01 kilotons, whereas the North Korean nukes have blast yields of more than 12 kilotons? You're not matching that without another nuclear weapon.

Why on earth would you think I am joking. China doesn't want a nuke war - agreed and wouldn't let a real war start except by accident. But they have no problem letting their dog bark and distract the neighbors.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Im pretty sure America would say "Awww look at that tiny nuke! Here NK, play with some of our M.O.A.B.s, enjoy *pats head*"

You do realize that a MOAB has a blast yield of around 0.01 kilotons, whereas the North Korean nukes have blast yields of more than 12 kilotons? You're not matching that without another nuclear weapon.

Yes, but we can drop enough MOABs to level their country without the fallout problem. Those are Eco-friendly bombs

 KingCracker wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Im pretty sure America would say "Awww look at that tiny nuke! Here NK, play with some of our M.O.A.B.s, enjoy *pats head*"

You do realize that a MOAB has a blast yield of around 0.01 kilotons, whereas the North Korean nukes have blast yields of more than 12 kilotons? You're not matching that without another nuclear weapon.

Yes, but we can drop enough MOABs to level their country without the fallout problem. Those are Eco-friendly bombs

Not sure if serious. You don't strategically bomb an entire country with nothing but MOABs. They're not general purpouse bombs, and they're not cheap.

Come on guys...we all know that if NK wouldn't dare to nuke Japan.
Because Japan is source of all anime and mangas in the world and everybody loves anime and manga

Not only that, I bet that they wouldn't t move a muscle without China and Russia support. And I seriously doubt that China and Russia want to see nuclear winter.