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Hello, I got a problem, my Eldar, no matter what I do, ALWAYS LOSE. I have tried many different tactics and different units (courtesy of the other Eldar player who wins an even amount of games as everyone else) and no matter what I ALWAYS LOSE!!!!!! The only time I won was in a 500 Pt battle against Grey Knights ( they guy I played was about my same skill level) and I didnt even have a legal army then. I dont know if it is because I'm still kind of new to the game or because they are (quite literally) twice my age (im 13) so im intimidated or just because MY ARMY SUCKS. (ITS ALSO ILLEGAL IN 2000 Pt battles ( not enough troop choices)) but no matter what I ALWAYS LOSE! Even if i look at all the tactics and do exactly what they say I ALWAYS LOSE!! The problem is that they always seem able to kill me no matter what I do. Honestly I am ready to just quit playing Eldar and start a Space Wolves army. It also feels like they are playing the game for me to. The list I use to TRY TO WIN BUT ALWAYS LOSE are here (its not so horrible now but... yeah, not as horrible) (and i dont fail MISERABLY anymore, I lose normally):
2043 Pts (Illegal to, Just I have 4 HS slots but only 2 troops)
HQ: Farseer w/ RA, GH, RoWa, RoWi, fortune, and guide
Farseer, same as above but with Doom
ELITES: SS w/ claw, shadowstrike, and stalker
FD w/ fire pike
Wave Serpent W/ TL Scatter Lasers and VE and SS
Troops: (the illegal bit) DA with power sword and shimmer shield and BS and Defend
Gaurdians w/ missle launcher
Fast attack:Warp Spiders w/ DS and Withdraw
Swooping Hawks w/ Sunrifle, SL and Intercept
Heavy Support: DR w/ tempest launcher
wraithlord w/ brightlance and wraithblade
Fire Prism W/ star engines and HF
Falcon w/ SE and HF and bright lance

When I play I put my DA in the Wave serpent and my FD in the Falcon. I also have my swooping hawks and warp spiders in reserves. then i put my dark reapers in the back with the Farseer without doom and the Farseer w/ doom w/ the DA I also put my SS as far up as I can get them, Then I use my WL to get rid of anything else. So if anyone can help me i would greatly appreciate it.

1)Need to scrap the falcon waste of a HS slot and expensive
2)Need another Wraithlord or fire prism also never take wraithsword when you can take 2 heavy weapons. Never take 2 of the same though as they are only TL
3)Dont need more than one runes that make enemy take physic tests on 3d6 (one does it save points)
4) I dont understand the illegality of the troops you have 2 choices
5)Hawks and spiders are nice but dont really full fill their points cost
6)make use of wave serpents more at least 2 in every list
7)Drop exarch weapons to stay in 2000 points
8)Eldar are hard to play when begining 40k (i know from experience)
9)Use many DA squads in WS as well as FD's in WS dont ever waste 16points for a melta and a 4+ save
10)Dont use guardians unless for objective sitting in which case use a warlock with them either with embolden or destructor
11)Try a seer concil on jetbikes they kick ass at this points level
12)Scorpions are good 3+ for eldar is awesome
13)Dont give up on eldar they are rewarding to play with and update around september yay
14)for better melee capabilities use harlequins with kisses almost as deadly as gene stealers
15)War Walkers are also awesome especially as cheap weapons slots

Good luck
play eldar
enjoy the game
it isnt about winning
update in september

Chillax lil buddy.

I'd say this is more of a tactics rather than army list issue.

It looks like you play a footdar style list. Many Eldar bodies on the ground, lots of shooty. I play the same, and have won 5/6 games so far. I think a large portion of that has been luck, but I spend much time thinking about how i'm playing.

Eldar are a reactionary army. You have to think about what your opponent has, how they will send that at you, and the best way to respond. The fluff around Eldar has them predicting the future and acting in the best way to steer it in their favour. Do the same. REALLY think about your deployment, and what you're up against.

Use the right tool for the right job. Each Eldar unit excels at one thing, and one thing alone. Use their strength, against your opponents weak spots.

In short, let your opponent come to you. In your entire list of models, you've got 1 squad that is a CC oriented squad. The Scorpions. Avoid combat at all costs, and if a unit does get into combat, make sure it's one they can win. Never fight a battle you can't win, unless it's to secure an objective. You mention the scorpions being deployed forward. How often do they make it to combat? When i've placed mine far forward, they get vapourised before they get a change to move on turn 2.

Use your mobility. Those spiders, hawks, they move fast and deep strike. Pick your targets with them.

Conserve your units. Play Eldar like the fluff says. Nothing should be thrown away. Every model is sacred!

Pick a varied list, that has every tool you might need. My 2k list consists of;

Autarch
Eldrad/Farseer
Dragons w/Serpent
Defenders
Storm Guardians
Avengers
Pathfinders
Jetbikes
Warp Spiders
Hawks
Wraithlord x2
War Walkers

A lil bit of everything.

One thing i'd say you're missing in your list is War Walkers. While not essential, the anti-infantry firepower they bring is amazing. Get 3, and equip them all with Scatter Lasers. Cast guide on them and watch them shred infantry and big tyranids.

Definitely get some extra troop choices. I recommend Rangers/Pathfinders, and maybe another squad of guardians (mainly because i'm a fan of the humble guardian). Give them a scatter laser platform, and maybe throw in an embolden warlock if you have the points. Things to ditch from you list;

Hawks - hard to use well, fragile and expensive. Lose them (for now)
Falcon - Expensive, mediocre at shooting and transport. Better uses for HS slots.

Just like what the people above me say. Its probably how your playing your army. How many of the warp spiders and SS are you fielding along with the DA? Also with eldar you really don't want to be stuck with 2 troop choices.
1. Another DA squad that can either footslog or be in a WS helps you out immensely .
2. You might want to drop the fire prism or convert it to a night spinner.
3. Drop the falcon and another note is that the Eldar vehilcles should not take any upgrades unless it is a wep upgrade since people know that Eldar can't maneuver w/o our vehicles.
4. If you drop the prism and falcon then you really should add WW and a WS for your fragons.
5. Depending on your points it might be better to dish the two farseers and put in Eldrad and another HQ option (farseer if shooty, Avatar if mele)

 BustyBadger wrote:

4) I dont understand the illegality of the troops you have 2 choices

It says in the rulebook that when you go above 2000 pts everything doubles, 4 HQ's (2 required), 12 troops (4 required), 6 Elites, 6 Heavy Support, and 6 Fast attack

So 1) what troops can I get that wont ruin my army and 2) I am a bit short on funds so I cant buy much. I wont be getting any money for a while.

Georgefancy wrote:

 BustyBadger wrote:

4) I dont understand the illegality of the troops you have 2 choices

It says in the rulebook that when you go above 2000 pts everything doubles, 4 HQ's (2 required), 12 troops (4 required), 6 Elites, 6 Heavy Support, and 6 Fast attack

So 1) what troops can I get that wont ruin my army and 2) I am a bit short on funds so I cant buy much. I wont be getting any money for a while.

is it what we see is what you have or is there more? Also put numbers up so we know how much your running in a squad or if you have more units in your possession then say how much you have of each. Telling us your budget for 40k would be good and we can fidle with numbers once you give us the former info.

Georgefancy wrote:

 BustyBadger wrote:

4) I dont understand the illegality of the troops you have 2 choices

It says in the rulebook that when you go above 2000 pts everything doubles, 4 HQ's (2 required), 12 troops (4 required), 6 Elites, 6 Heavy Support, and 6 Fast attack

So 1) what troops can I get that wont ruin my army and 2) I am a bit short on funds so I cant buy much. I wont be getting any money for a while.

Going above 2000 points means that you CAN take a 2nd force organisation chart, you do not HAVE to.

With only 2 troop choices, you're stuck to playing with a single FOC chart. That's fine, I think you should play smaller games to get your head around how things work, before moving on to larger ones.

As for what troops to get, get another squad of guardians! 10 men, with a scatter laser is like 95 points. Look on ebay or somewhere. There's always loads of them floating around, because them come with the battle set and the like. Them or pathfinders. I love pathfinders. Jetbikes too. Jetbikes are fun (but expensive for 3)

GTKA666 wrote:

Georgefancy wrote:

 BustyBadger wrote:

4) I dont understand the illegality of the troops you have 2 choices

It says in the rulebook that when you go above 2000 pts everything doubles, 4 HQ's (2 required), 12 troops (4 required), 6 Elites, 6 Heavy Support, and 6 Fast attack

So 1) what troops can I get that wont ruin my army and 2) I am a bit short on funds so I cant buy much. I wont be getting any money for a while.

is it what we see is what you have or is there more? Also put numbers up so we know how much your running in a squad or if you have more units in your possession then say how much you have of each. Telling us your budget for 40k would be good and we can fidle with numbers once you give us the former info.

Good idea, These are the only guys that I have but the other Eldar player lets me borrow his stuff like wraithgaurd and d-cannons and stuff... And all of the guys are 1 box full of them
Also Im 13 so its not like im gatting money every week or even every other week. NO MONEY. The most I can get would maybye be 1 squad of something like dire avengers or rangers but thats it. Im also making a CSM army. Yes I know, Eldar and CSM cant ally, but I wanted to play CSM because there is only one other CSM player and he rarely comes in. Also there are at least 2 players for each imperium race (5 for Dark Angels)(WHY!?!?!?!?) And 2 guys play deamons and one of them also plays dark eldar so we would be EPIC BATTLE BROTHERS!!! and also my brother (when he played) had a CSM army and i am using what is not broken from them, no raptors but i do get 5 possesed, 2x 8 man marines, land raider, 5 thousand sons (F*** YEAH!), and a Chaos Lord. So yeah, BUT THIS IS FOR ELDAR NOT CSM I DID NOT MEAN TO GET THIS OFF TOPIC PLEASE FOLLOW THE CURRENT THREAD. Well i have to take the double thing because i have 4 heavy supports, and if i drop the falcon i wont have 2000 pts so what troops do i get and how do i get my fire dragons to be useful? drop the SS and get a WS?

I understand that you are frustrated. But Eldar are a finess army. You need to keep your wits about you, think carefully in the movement phase, and know exactly what enemy threats you need to strike with your shooting.

Its not that "your army sucks" in fact my win rate with Eldar actually skyrocketed in 6th edition, furthermore, the fact that the other eldar player in the group is in the middle of the pack should be evidence enough that the problem isn't with the Eldar dex.


The main reason you are losing is because you
a) don't have enough troops
b) don't have good troops.

Its not that Dire Avengers and Guardians are bad- they are not. They are just strictly speaking mediocre. Most of the missions in the game require you to take and hold Objectives. You've got 2 squads of t3 elves who are supposed to hold these thigns, and to make things worse, one of them only has 5+ armour, and only 1 of them has any mobility!

What you need are some guardian Jetbikes and Pathfinders. Guardian Jetbikes are capable of avoiding trouble and snagging objectives anywhere on the board at the end of the game, and they have t4 and 3+ saves to help them take light enemy fire power.

Rangers get a solid cover save, and have a 36 inch range on all their guns, making them ideal for holding back field objectives. Their precision shots are ap1 which is quite nice.

Eldar are an army that require clear thinking to win. We are not Space Wolves. You can't just charge blindly into trouble and hope that your statline and rules will carry the day in the thick of it. You need to think carefully about things like positioning and movement, and place your blows well. Eldar are a tough army to play, but when you are focusing on movement, and target priority, and making sure that you can claim objectives while denying them your opponent. A well played eldar army is a sight to behold. You get to make your opponent feel like they are helplessly blundering about the battle field with big units that could kill all of the elves, but can not get anything worthwhile into their sights.

Unless you want tojust blindly walk into your opponents army.... then yea... you will probably loose

Replace the FIre Prism with another WL that is the same build as your other one, Replace Falcon with another 10 DA Squad OR 5 Pathfinders, and maybe swap the swooping hawks for another 5 Pathfider squad. Put 5-6 fragons into a WS and have the dark reapers/Pathfinder cover the WS by killing potential units that pop out and pin them or hit other squads till the fragons reach their objective. Wl will hit big guns and stay close to a farseer. WS will harass where they need to and so on.

So do you guys think that if I dropped the falcon and got a squad of avengers and a squad of rangers, then dropped the scorpions and got another Wave Serpent that would be good. I'm also not a big fan of jet bikes because they come in ones (weirdest idea ever) and I did use the other elder players jetbike squad and I personally did not like it. But I will not get rid of the SH because I use them to (very affectively) destroy light infantry, and tanks when my fragons are busy. So I get rid of the Falcon and SS and get Avengers, Rangers, and another Wave Serpent (Falcons like conversions) that that would be good. however in capture the relic which is the most common one I do (magic) my scorpions do help ALOT because they are right near the relic and I manage to win.

no one told ya to swap out SS your gonna want em with your list. Take out the prism and falcon to swap in rangers and dire avengers.

GTKA666 wrote:
no one told ya to swap out SS your gonna want em with your list. Take out the prism and falcon to swap in rangers and dire avengers.

So what if I do doubles, (4 troops required, 6 of everything) so then I will be able to get another wave serpent and get rid of the falcon, then get the DA and rangers for the other 2 troops. But why do you want me to take out the prism?

It's horrible by itself. It needs a partner.

Would a Space Wolves allied regiment work?

Don't take allies until you have learned how to use Eldar. Taking allies when your inexperienced is like learning to run before you crawl.

Well what "partner" could I use with a prism besides another prism?

Thats the only partner there is lol. You can link the two prisms ( as long as they are in LOS of each other) and the wep you choose gets +1 S and +1 BS( I think) or you can just use both of them to be crowd control or kill two different vehicles. When your in 2k pt games that means more roof to fit in big weps with armor so you are going to need more things to counter their weapons.

Yeah, the multitude of objective games changes things...I wish they would rule that the phoenix lords can make their guys troop choices, but I digress...

Field all six troop choices or 12 at 2000

Even if you have to be economic with minimum manned squads, it can put more warlocks and dire avenger exarchs on the table, which is good. Wait until the middle game to chase down the objectives...avoid combat for two turns unless a nasty shooting squad is nearby...then send scorpions after them

So does anyone have any ideas tactics wise? IF I dont change anything EXCEPT, MAYBE, getting an ADL

ADL is an expensive investment as, to reach it's full potential, you need either a dark reaper or fire dragon exarch with crack shot power (+tank hunter if Fire dragon), which comes out to rather expensive (200+ points just for 4 str 7 shots. Yes Skyfire, but still...)

Some things that may help you win more games than you lose.

Runes of Warding, Jet-Biker Farseer Council, Fuegan on an Aegis Defense line.

From wrote:
Some things that may help you win more games than you lose.

Runes of Warding, Jet-Biker Farseer Council, Fuegan on an Aegis Defense line.

only RoWarding is a good choice to all players.

Jet bike council is not for all people. Proxy first before deciding to buy all of those expensive bikes.

Wait for the codex to come out so we know what the hell is going to happen to our phoenix lords and I certainly would not restrict Fuegan to quad cannon duty. That would be the exarch's job.

I am going to tell everyone right now. NO JETBIKES! I am Biel-Tan! not some lowly Saimm-Hann! I dont rely on stupid freaking jet bikes! I use my Aspect Warriors!! So after I get another squad of DA and a squad of Pathfinders, should I get HB? You know, cause they have power weapons and such?

No. HBs are dead right now because you need AP 2 to really be able to send them after anything, and HBs are AP 3. If your using a Elite slot for melee just to kill normal marines, your better off with Storm Guardians at that point. Right now the two best elite slots for Eldar (IMO) are Clowns and Scorpions, in that order. Wraithguard are only really worth it as a 10 man troop choice. Then you need dual Farseers/Eldrad to make them work, again, IMO.

Play smaller point games. Whoever is telling you to play 2000pts games as a new player is just looking to get easy wins over you. Use the stuff you have and play some combat patrols (4'x4' table, 400 or 600pt games, look online for Adepticon Combat Patrol rules).

Get your feet under you, learn the limits of your list combined with your play style. Then move up to 1000pt games, then 1500pts, then 1850pts. If your playing with friends, tell them to stop being turds and play smaller games or start looking for others to play with. Because at this point it no longer sounds like friendly games.

The other thing you as a player need to learn is that us giving you the best army in the world will not mean you will win. You placing units in bad places, choosing to shoot at poor targets, bad dice... this is part of the game. Heck, your play style may not fit with the advice given you. We do not know how aggressive you are. That to me is a huge factor for any player with dealing online. For example, we can not place your stuff, you do. If your too aggressive and place things out in the open and hope you seize initiative and fail... That aspect is all on you and all you can do is not get upset over it, but learn to not repeat that mistake.

No one can control bad dice or good dice, yet that makes up a huge part of the game. You can do everything right and have your dice fail you. Do not have a fit, you can't control it, and other will respect you more for having a positive attitude. This is a game after all, if your not having fun, this game might not be for you.

If you want to win, there are 3 aspects to 40k. Either way, be a good winner and a good sport if you lose.
1) Make a solid list for your style.
2) Use your list right (know your rules, war gear rules, base rules, ect).
3) Roll above average. At best, hope you roll average, but good dice can go a long way.

If you get one of these to work for you, you will win 25-50% of your games. Get two and you win 50-75%. Get all 3 and you win 75-100%.

Good luck

 BlkTom wrote:


Play smaller point games. Whoever is telling you to play 2000pts games as a new player is just looking to get easy wins over you. Use the stuff you have and play some combat patrols (4'x4' table, 400 or 600pt games, look online for Adepticon Combat Patrol rules).

Get your feet under you, learn the limits of your list combined with your play style. Then move up to 1000pt games, then 1500pts, then 1850pts. If your playing with friends, tell them to stop being turds and play smaller games or start looking for others to play with. Because at this point it no longer sounds like friendly games.

Im kind of the one that chooses to play 2000 pt games..... ...... And I really only have one friend at my GW (hes not the only one I play, duh) and he plays Grey Knights and we usually only play smaller games. THAT is how I learned how to use my Swooping Hawks.

Then play smaller games, do not start out at 2k points. Work your way up to that level. Give yourself the opportunity to learn the units and learn how to use them with your own playstyle.

Ok, so just play smaller battles. Wait for new codex. Make new tactics that will stick around for a good 2-3 years. Murder. everyone. Is that all?

Or you can sink a couple hundred bucks into them to actually get the stuff you need to make your list better /now/ and hope it translates in the 6th Ed codex. I have loads of stuff that no longer exists in the game any more. Are you spending your folks money or your own... if it is your own, a 'Thanks, I will not blow a ton of money right now one a list that may totally change in 1 year' would be nice. If it is your folks and they will not murder you for potentially blowing their money...break out the plastic and either Ebay or buy new and get better units and more troops.

 BlkTom wrote:
Or you can sink a couple hundred bucks into them to actually get the stuff you need to make your list better /now/ and hope it translates in the 6th Ed codex. I have loads of stuff that no longer exists in the game any more. Are you spending your folks money or your own... if it is your own, a 'Thanks, I will not blow a ton of money right now one a list that may totally change in 1 year' would be nice. If it is your folks and they will not murder you for potentially blowing their money...break out the plastic and either Ebay or buy new and get better units and more troops.

there are several " safe units and we will probably see what will happen with tau. Stuff gets moved around and add a few things here and there, but nothing taken out. Except for Support Weapon Batteries. Those are the only things that have the potential to be taken out of the Codex. After that everything is going to be pumped up and debuffed or just go sideways.