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Earth Dragon wrote:
So it can come on "any" turn after its killed, not just the following turn? I know what I'm charging in!!!!

If it's like the Hell Pit Abomination, it resurrects on the spot where it was killed.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
Just a thing about the phenixes, they're a good deal bigger than I thought at first. With the first leaks I imagined them great eagle sized.
In fact they go on dragon bases and have the same wingspan as them! Also you get parts to make the rider "on foot" should you want not to put it on. Meaning a free caradryan if you don't plan on putting him on. Not too shabby

Does anyone know if the skychariot is also on the dragon base 100mm x 50mm?

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
@ The Shadow from the battle report they have a ward save which because of their magic-dependant special rule gets to 4+.
Also the battle report was saved for the high elf because a killed phenix came back to life on the last turn (the report had some kind of objective that the phenix went to contest)

So its like the Pheonix rules already out in the Forgeworld book -it can keep coming back and has lots of other fun rules

Oh and that one burns enemies in base comtact - even when it resurects

more rumors I found on ulthuan

SOA is now normal ASF
Flame Spire Phoenix does D6 + D3 per rank S4 hits
Frost Phoenix gives ASL and -1S to enemys in cc
Lothern Sky cutter(T4) can equip bolt thrower with S5
SM and WL get cheaper (favorite number of any rat)
Sisters of averlorn 24" S4

From my local store owner:

Just heard today, GW is only guaranteeing 3 of each box and 15 of the codex & cards to stores. We will probably get more than that, but that is what they guarantee.

"We are so popular, every release has sold out!"

 d-usa wrote:
"We are so popular, every release has sold out!"

"We don't know how to accurately predict our sales anymore since they drop off in odd patterns, better just short stock everything and play catch up".

The warehouse is still full with Limited Edition Hobbit starters, so no room for new releases.

 Flashman wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Let's hope. Mat Ward doesn't PLEASE FIND A MORE APPROPRIATE WORD current High Elf fluff as he has done with Grey Knights and Space Marines.

High Elf and Dark Elf desperate alliance - You know it will happen

I cannot imagine anyone being dangerous enough to get Malekith to ask his traitorous kin for help.

Although it they begged forgiveness and agreed to accept his rule, HE might agree to help THEM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

furbyballer wrote:
The 6+ parry save for SMs is only for BS based attacks. But I am firm believer that martial prowess combined with retaining ASF is still a very powerful combo, even if we do not get the re-rolls. Can't wait for Friday. So stoked!

Thus nerfing the already useless Bolt throwers even more.

Mohoc wrote:
From my local store owner:

Just heard today, GW is only guaranteeing 3 of each box and 15 of the codex & cards to stores. We will probably get more than that, but that is what they guarantee.

Ready for another Tau Fiasco?

 pities2004 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
From my local store owner:

Just heard today, GW is only guaranteeing 3 of each box and 15 of the codex & cards to stores. We will probably get more than that, but that is what they guarantee.

Ready for another Tau Fiasco?

Yeah, how DARE GW tell people ahead of time that they might have issues?! How DARE they do just what we asked them to do last time?! Get the pitchforks!

There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

 Kirasu wrote:
There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

At this point we do not even know for certain that there are production problems.

All we have is a rumor that GW is only guaranteeing at least 3 of each boxed set to shops.
We do not even know if this statement refers to their own shops or independents both, or their shops only or independents only.

In all likelihood, this is a reaction to what happened with the Tau where some shops had all the Finecast and the codex while others only had plastic boxes and the codex or some shops had a mixture of the two but no Codices.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

At this point we do not even know for certain that there are production problems.

All we have is a rumor that GW is only guaranteeing at least 3 of each boxed set to shops.
We do not even know if this statement refers to their own shops or independents both, or their shops only or independents only.

In all likelihood, this is a reaction to what happened with the Tau where some shops had all the Finecast and the codex while others only had plastic boxes and the codex or some shops had a mixture of the two but no Codices.

The message was coming from a decent size independent store. I guess we will see what happens with the smaller and corporate stores. With Tau, they shifted some stock from their local corporate store to the local independents to satisfy demand. It helped a little bit, but everyone was still short on product.

I don't think it will be as severe as Tau though. 40k is bigger than fantasy plus Tau was a big one and a highly anticipated release.

 Kirasu wrote:
There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

New books tend to increase demand for the new kits compared to just a wave release. And GW has been putting out books every month, so not as much time to build up stock for a release before they have to switch over to producing stuff for the next book.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

New books tend to increase demand for the new kits compared to just a wave release. And GW has been putting out books every month, so not as much time to build up stock for a release before they have to switch over to producing stuff for the next book.

Yeah, I was trying to get some Isle of blood swordmasters and they are getting eaten up on ebay super fast.

Mohoc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
There shouldn't BE production problems 2 releases in a row period. Regardless of if they tell people in advance, why bother even releasing something if you can't supply it?

At this point we do not even know for certain that there are production problems.

All we have is a rumor that GW is only guaranteeing at least 3 of each boxed set to shops.
We do not even know if this statement refers to their own shops or independents both, or their shops only or independents only.

In all likelihood, this is a reaction to what happened with the Tau where some shops had all the Finecast and the codex while others only had plastic boxes and the codex or some shops had a mixture of the two but no Codices.

The message was coming from a decent size independent store. I guess we will see what happens with the smaller and corporate stores. With Tau, they shifted some stock from their local corporate store to the local independents to satisfy demand. It helped a little bit, but everyone was still short on product.

Thanks for clarifying that.

I think it definitely will just be a case of "We'll see".

In 2011 I gathered up a 3,000 pts High Elf army. The only thing I don't have is cavalry (except the IoB guys), Phoenix Guard, and plain Spearmen. Got a huge unit of IoB LSG and regular archers.

So I'll have to wait and see what this release will do to my army.

 d-usa wrote:
In 2011 I gathered up a 3,000 pts High Elf army. The only thing I don't have is cavalry (except the IoB guys), Phoenix Guard, and plain Spearmen. Got a huge unit of IoB LSG and regular archers.

So I'll have to wait and see what this release will do to my army.

Yeah I have 25 swordmasters(IoB), 40 LSG (IoB), 20 White lions and 20 Phoenix Guard. After reading a lot of the rumours and debating I decided to increase the Phoenix guard to 40, ASF, with a giant horde plus martial prowess that's 40 str 4 attacks with heavy armor and 4+ ward saves. and i'll use the swordmasters and white lions to hit the flanks.


Super excited for the new book

On the subject of under stocked stores, I'll remind everyone that most GW stores themselves did not get enough stock up front for the Tau release. My store got like 10 codices, all sold within an hour. Same with most of the models.

My store JUST got more Tau stock yesterday, nearly a month after the release.

That is a major misunderstanding of projected sales, and implies that GW really doesn't understand what their consumers want(I said implies because for all we know a ship sank with most of the Tau product and that is why stock was short).

Now for that same perceived shortage to happen twice in a row, only this time GW is warning it will happen means that it's not a ship sinking in the Atlantic with all our toys.

This implies that GW didn't make enough product to keep up with demand. And there are hundreds of stories of companies with great products that couldn't keep up with demand and ended up going out of business because they lost their customers from it.

My purchases this round will be fairly straightforward:

Magic cards and Army Book on preorder.

Once I've read through the rules and brainstormed a bit the most I'll be buying in this wave is:
2x Shadow Warriors box
2x Phoenix(only 1 if the rules for a version are meh)
1 Skycutter(mostly for the bits I'll admit)
And perhaps the combat mage and Maiden Guard.

That right there is $300+ retail(thank God for discounts).

Now if they had released new core infantry that number might well be $500, but they didn't so more money for me.

 Aerethan wrote:
On the subject of under stocked stores, I'll remind everyone that most GW stores themselves did not get enough stock up front for the Tau release. My store got like 10 codices, all sold within an hour. Same with most of the models.

My store JUST got more Tau stock yesterday, nearly a month after the release.

That is a major misunderstanding of projected sales, and implies that GW really doesn't understand what their consumers want(I said implies because for all we know a ship sank with most of the Tau product and that is why stock was short).

Now for that same perceived shortage to happen twice in a row, only this time GW is warning it will happen means that it's not a ship sinking in the Atlantic with all our toys.

This implies that GW didn't make enough product to keep up with demand. And there are hundreds of stories of companies with great products that couldn't keep up with demand and ended up going out of business because they lost their customers from it.

My purchases this round will be fairly straightforward:

Magic cards and Army Book on preorder.

Once I've read through the rules and brainstormed a bit the most I'll be buying in this wave is:
2x Shadow Warriors box
2x Phoenix(only 1 if the rules for a version are meh)
1 Skycutter(mostly for the bits I'll admit)
And perhaps the combat mage and Maiden Guard.

That right there is $300+ retail(thank God for discounts).

Now if they had released new core infantry that number might well be $500, but they didn't so more money for me.

Yep, same thing I am going to do. No point in jumping headlong without knowing the new rules for all those.

One problem here in the US is that GW has shut down all the manufacturing they were doing at their Memphis HQ and moved it back to being done exclusively in the UK. That part of the Memphis facility now sits empty. Restocks for the US now come from Nottingham, UK just like they did twenty years ago. So they not only under produced the new Tau product, they have less facilities producing it and US stores have to wait for it to come from overseas. My local GW Bowie Battle Bunker lost thousands of dollars on Tau release weekend due to short supply and they are only now getting a trickle of stock back on their shelves.

Still, I'd be surprised if the High Elves have this problem. No matter how popular I can't see it selling the way that Tau did.

Yeah I'm making sure I have the cards and book pre-ordered.

The rest I won't be in a rush and can wait if I even decide to get them.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
One problem here in the US is that GW has shut down all the manufacturing they were doing at their Memphis HQ and moved it back to being done exclusively in the UK. That part of the Memphis facility now sits empty. Restocks for the US now come from Nottingham, UK just like they did twenty years ago. So they not only under produced the new Tau product, they have less facilities producing it and US stores have to wait for it to come from overseas. My local GW Bowie Battle Bunker lost thousands of dollars on Tau release weekend due to short supply and they are only now getting a trickle of stock back on their shelves.

Still, I'd be surprised if the High Elves have this problem. No matter how popular I can't see it selling the way that Tau did.

If GW can't be bothered to predict lead times to produce X volume and get that done before a release date that THEY set, they are a terrible manufacturer. If GW can't ensure their own supply that THEY produce is there for the demand that exists, they fail as a business. This happening once could be chalked up to bad luck or some manner of learning curve. To do so repeatedly shows incompetence.

Moving again to the investor argument(since investors are the only people GW care about making happy), why would I invest in a company that, being as large as GW is, can't even keep up with demand, after that company thought that scaling back manufacturing to a far less centralized single location was a good idea?

Again, love the game, usually love the models, almost always hate the company.

I'm thinking a lot of people aren't understanding the manufacturing lead time on any kind of product like this.

Step 1: Acquire raw materials. If something went wrong in the supply chain here and they only got half their raw plastic order, that'd going to hose everything for months.

Step 2: Produce Sprues. Let's say one of their injection casting machines went down during Tau production. Since they reduced capacity by ceasing operations in the US, they are probably running every machine in Nottingham that they have - possibly around the clock. Around the clock means no maintenance time, means break downs. Relying on a maxed out capacity operation to fulfill demand spikes is really bad business (shocker).

Step 3: Package everything. I doubt this is the problem, but who knows.

Step 4: It's on a boat and, it's going slow and, it takes a day to unload in either Port Elizabeth (NJ) or Norfolk (VA), maybe even Baltimore... Oh and then there's customs delays, freight forwarding to their US distribution center, unpacking the containers into the warehouse.

Step 5: Fill orders to shops. And here's where I think the train went off the rails and shops ended up with all varieties of crazy combos of kits... If the timeline was compressed and they knew they didn't have enough stock to fill everything. The fulfillment manager probably just screwed up the priority orders to the pickers filling boxes. Lets say they have 10-15 normal pickers in the warehouse filling orders. 5 work only on direct orders. They throw all 15 on wholesale orders and pick up another 5 temp workers. Now you've got half the pickers without adequate experience to prioritize and equalize stock to a couple hundred stores... and it all needs to go out at roughly the same time, so it's going to take a week or two just to pick and pack that many orders.


Now, tell me how easy it is to get all that right and perfect from 1 mucked up release to the next only 1 month later.

JWMarines wrote:
Now, tell me how easy it is to get all that right and perfect from 1 mucked up release to the next only 1 month later.

For a company the size of GW it really shouldn't be that hard. It isn't unreasonable to expect a business to continuously get this stuff right, they have been doing it for decades.
This is far less likely a problem with getting the raw materials or delivering them than it is a problem with them actually churning out the models now that they only have the 1 production facility, which begs the question why did they shut down the one in the US?

Which is why I said "implied" earlier.

Barring some form of real supply issue that was out of GW's hands, it's a failure on their part.

And another thing to consider is this: GW sets the release dates, and they announce them only 1 week early. They could EASILY postpone a release to work out any supply kinks, and people would likely praise them for putting in effort.

If GW said straight up "we wanted to release Tau this month, but our supplier for X screwed us and we don't honestly have the volume of stock to give everyone what they want, so we're holding off for 2-4 weeks while we get things squared away and no one has to go without while others get their toys", they'd at least be a responsible company.

Releasing high demand products with short stock is a failure, regardless of the reason. GW didn't have any contractual obligation to release Tau when they did. They knew damn well what their stock was, and they didn't meet demand.

Now perhaps if they would put preorders up more than 1 week in advance, they'd have an actual measurement of projected volume and would have been able to produce enough product in time.

So tell me, if GW knew 2 months ago that they needed X broadside suits and codices, would they STILL have not met that demand?

GW chooses to tell people nothing until the last minute, and as such GW misses out on getting some form of gauge for demand of a new release, causing issues like this.

GW's new products are generally finished many months, even in some cases a few years before actual release. Example, Island Of Blood was finished in shrink wrap a year before release, Necrons sat about two years before release. Who knows how long the Tau stuff sat in the warehouse before release date. GW simply didn't project such high sales and produced far too few items to meet demand.

Yeah this isn't there first rodeo I haven't seen any problems like this in the past (I could be mistaken) not including the Tau fiasco