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Which all goes to show that GW is not aimed at tourney play.

UltraPrime wrote:
Which all goes to show that GW is not aimed at tourney play.

They said so multiple times. It's up to the players to balance the game

UltraPrime wrote:
Which all goes to show that GW is not aimed at tourney play.

No, it goes to show that players don't like to learn things on the fly.
This same thing is usually why Forge World stuff is not allowed.

If people don't want to invest the slightest amount of time to learn the updated rules, that's on them.

 Sigvatr wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Which all goes to show that GW is not aimed at tourney play.

They said so multiple times. It's up to the players to balance the game

I'd love to know what your group did to balance rules out.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

Please tell me you're joking. Please, for the love of the Emprah, tell me you're joking

To be fair the environment you play in is probably very different from mine. My 40k group is pretty laid back and fluffy so I probably don't see the nastiest combinations and we play for fun rather than tournament wins. I'm slightly more competitive in warhammer as its my game of preference. Regardless in competitive settings if a book is that op it will have the gak comped out of it, if its a friendly and you come against tfg then take it on the chin smirk at his epeen and don't play him again.

Well if its all about balance just have everyone play wood elves. That's balanced right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyways back to the book, I'm hoping Phoenix guard got a price drop or stayed the same.

Sound unfun to me. I just get a new book for my army and you tell me I can't use it becuase you haven't had enough time to pick out the things you don't like. Why not just let eveyone play their codex and not meddle?

 wowsmash wrote:
Sound unfun to me. I just get a new book for my army and you tell me I can't use it becuase you haven't had enough time to pick out the things you don't like. Why not just let eveyone play their codex and not meddle?

They want to know who the best player is without involving any of that "fun" we geeks love so much.

When I first heard about the flying chariot I wasn't really a fan of the idea besides the plastic eagle but after seeing the model I think I may buy one just to have it because it looks great and I really like the HE Lord that comes with it. The amount of detail on him combined with the pose looks great plus the whole nautical theme works really well

 wowsmash wrote:
Sound unfun to me. I just get a new book for my army and you tell me I can't use it becuase you haven't had enough time to pick out the things you don't like. Why not just let eveyone play their codex and not meddle?

Nobody can disallow you to play the way you want - it's your decision!

I'm talking about competitive play here, ye know, at tournaments. That's something else than your average "fun only" game. In order to provide a balanced game, certain changes must be made to the BRB / army books and the same thing will happen to the HE army book - the problem is that 1 week is most likely not enough to get a reliable verdict on its power level or to find certain weak spots and thus, it's highly likely that HE players will, for the next tournament, have to use the old army book. It assures that nobody gets a (dis)advantage due to one single army not being restricted / buffed.

Sigvatr wrote: it's highly likely that HE players will, for the next tournament, have to use the old army book. It assures that nobody gets a (dis)advantage due to one single army not being restricted / buffed.

...or let the people use the new army book and that way gain a lot of competitive tournament data on the new book's power level. Your scared approach makes me think you take your toy soldier tournaments a tad too serious if you're not willing to give a new book one tournament unrestricted before picking it apart and making it bland and unexciting.

 Therion wrote:

Sigvatr wrote: it's highly likely that HE players will, for the next tournament, have to use the old army book. It assures that nobody gets a (dis)advantage due to one single army not being restricted / buffed.

...or let the people use the new army book and that way gain a lot of competitive tournament data on the new book's power level. Your scared approach makes me think you take your toy soldier tournaments a tad too serious if you're not willing to give a new book one tournament unrestricted before picking it apart and making it bland and unexciting.

...and then, on the tournament where people expect fair matches, a HE players pulls sth. really overpowered off and ruins the game for his opponents. Would you consider that fair? Would you consider that the aim of a tournament? What would the Lizardmen player say who has heavy restrictions on his army when the HE player suddenly gets (maybe!) overpowered magic stuff? Would you consider that fair? You need to broaden your perspective.

The usual approach is giving every new army book a few weeks to test, theorycraft etc. and then decide on it. A lot of stuff follows ETC restrictions, but we do use minor changes. Most matches follow the same rules in comp and matches take place at all participating clubs, thus we get a really good set of different matches with different opponents.

I am under the impression that you do not have a lot of experience with competitive,restricted tournaments (no offense), but it's supposed to be fair for everyone. It's not a "scared" approach, it's a "careful" approach. Again, we're talking about competitive play. Not your average game with friends.

 Aerethan wrote:
They want to know who the best player is without involving any of that "fun" we geeks love so much.

Because everyone else has so much fun when all the winner has to do is look up the most broken list possible on the web and use it to crush everything?

Alright, if you want to have a discussion about tournaments, please take it to an appropriate sub-forum. This thread is not for a back and forth solely on tournament play between 2 or 3 people.

Thank you -

 Therion wrote:

Sigvatr wrote: it's highly likely that HE players will, for the next tournament, have to use the old army book. It assures that nobody gets a (dis)advantage due to one single army not being restricted / buffed.

...or let the people use the new army book and that way gain a lot of competitive tournament data on the new book's power level. Your scared approach makes me think you take your toy soldier tournaments a tad too serious if you're not willing to give a new book one tournament unrestricted before picking it apart and making it bland and unexciting.

You also have to take into account the HE players being forced to submit lists within a week or two of getting the new book. They could well be at an unfair disadvantage if they don't get time to test out the changes/new units on the tabletop before locking down their lists.


*Edit*
Woops, I'll just shut up now.

Therion wrote:a tad too serious

Yeah, how dare you take the game seriously. It only costs about a grand to play after all.

Anyway, I noticed the phoenix and possibly skycutter have extra tall flying stands on them. Kinda gives me hope that they'll redo the flight stands for 40k flyers at some point. The simple clear rods look better than the giant cross-shaped things in my opinion.

Alright, if you want to have a discussion about tournaments, please take it to an appropriate sub-forum. This thread is not for a back and forth solely on tournament play between 2 or 3 people.

Thank you -

I like these models a lot more than I thought I would....except for the alternate version of the Phoenix. I mean really, magic-star-sparkles?

I really like the Eagle Chariot tbh...yes, some might consider it over the top, but it's a dynamic, big model and certainly an eye-catcher on the battle-field. I like it and I am looking forward to our HE players fielding them.

I think my Eldar exodite army just found its Vyper equivalent. Sky chariot here I come!

 Yodhrin wrote:
I like these models a lot more than I thought I would....except for the alternate version of the Phoenix. I mean really, magic-star-sparkles?

I think that the dual kits have officially reached the point of ridiculousness with the Phoenix. The only part the two models share is the torso. At that point a sensible person would have just added a second torso.

They also share the front/centre part of the wings, so it's a bit more than just the torso.
Still, I believe sales of RTV silicone and casting resin will skyrocket soon; these things aren't exactly all that hard to recast at home, for what I can see of them...

The Maiden Guard are the closest GW has come to selling me anything in a long time, and they still screwed things up. One, the faces are almost good - until some idiot carved out the cheeks, because Elvishness is apparently some form of wasting disease. Two, the pre-orders don't even mention the Maiden Guard exist until you go looking at the seemingly unrelated Shadow Warriors. And of course three, they're twice as expensive as I'd be willing to pay (three times as expensive in Australia).

The hawk pulling the Skycutter looks good, and if the price was right it would be a great standalone kit. The Skycutter itself is pretty awful, too much of a boat and not enough of something that looks like it's built to fly.

I like the fallein in cheeks...Elves are supposed to be frail creatures and that mirrors this trait pretty well

 Sidstyler wrote:

Therion wrote:a tad too serious

Yeah, how dare you take the game seriously. It only costs about a grand to play after all.

Anyway, I noticed the phoenix and possibly skycutter have extra tall flying stands on them. Kinda gives me hope that they'll redo the flight stands for 40k flyers at some point. The simple clear rods look better than the giant cross-shaped things in my opinion.

On the other hand, Sid, I imagine the cross-section flight stands for 40k are a fair bit tougher than the usual cylindrical ones that have been around for ever - those things always seemed to sheer off if you looked at 'em crooked...

 Dysartes wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

Therion wrote:a tad too serious

Yeah, how dare you take the game seriously. It only costs about a grand to play after all.

Anyway, I noticed the phoenix and possibly skycutter have extra tall flying stands on them. Kinda gives me hope that they'll redo the flight stands for 40k flyers at some point. The simple clear rods look better than the giant cross-shaped things in my opinion.

On the other hand, Sid, I imagine the cross-section flight stands for 40k are a fair bit tougher than the usual cylindrical ones that have been around for ever - those things always seemed to sheer off if you looked at 'em crooked...

I think the flight stands might be one of the areas for some good conversion potential.

Hmm I had been hoping to put my old maiden guard models to use with this release but apparently that isnt going to happen, seeing as for some reason maiden guard now have a bow emphasis rather than a spear emphasis...cant help feel that the older guard models are nicer too...

 Minaith1989 wrote:
Hmm I had been hoping to put my old maiden guard models to use with this release but apparently that isnt going to happen, seeing as for some reason maiden guard now have a bow emphasis rather than a spear emphasis...cant help feel that the older guard models are nicer too...

Concepts evolve. Maybe they thought it would be nice to add a unique bow unit that doesn't rely on skirmishers, rather than yet another specialist melee unit in an army that has quite a few anyways?

AlexHolker wrote:The hawk pulling the Skycutter looks good, and if the price was right it would be a great standalone kit. The Skycutter itself is pretty awful, too much of a boat and not enough of something that looks like it's built to fly.

I don't really think aerodynamics come into play when you've got a chariot that "rests upon a cushion of magic" and are drawn by a "Swiftfeather Roc"...

I think it definitely could have been done differently, but at the same time it has a kind of charm to it. It definitely strikes me as something fitting for a Lothern Sea Guard army. If I get one or two of them, I would likely try to figure out a way to make it look as though it is cresting the top of some pretty high waves.

The guy with the trident reminds me of that image with the IG officer sitting in a tank, yelling "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword!".

Maybe concepts do change but I do disagree with it. In old rules maiden guard had spears and bows. This made sense because they could (in theory) cut down enemies before they got near the everqueen but still had melee weapons to defend her effectively up close. Now they have bows. Oh and a single handmaiden with a spear. Hardly what i would call and effective bodyguard.

The new models also look quite male to me and not very feminine at all. As for the thenew alarielle looks terrible too. Her hair reminds me of sindel from mortal kombat. Im half expecting to read rules that say she has a sonic scream and the ability tothrow people with her hair. Perhaps thats just me being cynical though! :-)