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 More Dakka wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
In my opinion, I kinda feel like GW is setting these up so that people who don't know any better buy it thinking they are getting a discount. It's pretty common in less-renowned business practices, trying to slip stuff like that past consumers

 Fifty wrote:
The reason to offer a discount on bulk purchases is actually quite simple. Profit depends on two things - your profit margin and your turnover. If you can increase turnover by a lot whilst reducing your profit margin by a little, you will make more profit. Whether reducing margins will actually result in increased turnover is another question, but the underlying logic is quite basic. It works in somemarket sectors better than others.

Another reason for discounts that does not apply to GW so much is to undercut your competitors and increase market share. That is less applicable to GW, but it is exactly how independents are able to function at all.

Implying GW actually gives a damn about smart business sense.

I'm going to argue that as a publicly traded company they do. Share price is everything to them, so if profits are up then share price is up.

A lot of people make the mistake of assuming that what is good for the consumer is good for the supplier, but this just isn't the case 100% of the time.

When there is little to no competition on the supply side there is no reason to offer discounts on volume.

Now, I do suspect that the current majority shareholder(s) are looking to get out of the industry and sell their shares off soon, which is why they're making so many business decisions that will only net short-term gains over long term sustainability.

Bingo.

No, it isn't quite like gasoline. People don't have to purchase these products, but many feel like they do. GW knows this, and knows that they are the market for it. It would be ridiculous if they didn't take advantage of that. That's what business and capitalism is about. Sure, there are ethical and non-ethical ways to do it, but other than the trade agreements for NA and the restrictions for selling outside of one's country, I haven't seen them really do anything especially unethical. I think it's blown way out of proportion, mostly by people that feel they need or want the product, but aren't wanting to wait to save up or spread out purchases, and are grumpy bumpkins as a result. Different perspectives I suppose.

What kills me is that putting it in that format just makes the price look even bigger (it's going to cost me $900 dollars to get into this game?)

Their marketing people are boneheads.

Some of the one-click bundles KIND OF made sense in the past if a bit much...

But a thousand Canadian dollars for a Tyranid with every possible large monster? That's just insanely excessive.

I can't imagine that the boneheads in marketing don't think this can and will work completely against them. I'll wholly admit it, an army is expensive for this game, but the cost is usually hidden in lots of purchases made over time.

These bundles are like a giant neon sign saying "Hey newcomers! Want some sticker shock? It will cost you this frigging much to have enough models for a decent army! You might want to consider other wargames!"

The only thing worse is if at the end of the bundle description they gave you the exact price of the rulebook and the codex required to field such an army.

 More Dakka wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
The reason to offer a discount on bulk purchases is actually quite simple. Profit depends on two things - your profit margin and your turnover. If you can increase turnover by a lot whilst reducing your profit margin by a little, you will make more profit. Whether reducing margins will actually result in increased turnover is another question, but the underlying logic is quite basic. It works in somemarket sectors better than others.

Another reason for discounts that does not apply to GW so much is to undercut your competitors and increase market share. That is less applicable to GW, but it is exactly how independents are able to function at all.

If we're going to start getting into marketing then let's be upfront and say GW has no major competitors. There are substitute products made for other game systems, but the market GW has created is its own (40K, WHFB etc). Other companies make substitute products, but there are very very few that compete directly.

Forgeworld and the few 3rd party companies like Chapter House etc are the only direct competitors, [u]and GW has the vast majority share for its product.

They have no reason to compete on price with other companies and so they just won't. Of course in the long run price will hurt their bottom line, but right now it's actually part of their marketing mix (we're the best therefore we charge the most is interchangeable we charge the most therefore we are the best)

To be clear I'm not an apologist for their strategies. Just pointing out why they do what they do.

Forgeworld ISNT a third party company selling 3rd party stuff... its flat out GW, chapterhouse is a perfect example of 3rd party.

Even less direct competition, and even more reason for GW to do what they want and charge as much as they want.

agreed. and they will opnly stop ramping prices up when every1 stops buying.. we may not like it but clearly for them they are still making enough to justify pushing the price futher up

The worst part is how terrible it is on the tabletop!

The One-Click wonders are more expensive to produce and since they wont sold too well (I guess) that might be a reason for them being such an expensive box. I for myself dont really care about that. Those "megaforces" are appealing for collectors who want a one go showcase army and maybe some newcomers. Besides that, when I buy a new army I spend more money than I would spend on a box. It's all about how much do you want/can spend in one go. Not everyone can buy a whole 2500points army in one go but that doesnt mean there should be no options to do so.
In the past I often faced newcomers who bought tons of minis just to realise that they lack the "skills" to assemble them properly and ended up frustrated. Now those people can buy it and wont have a problem assembling them.

See, I still believe its a joke, though not on us. I have a feeling that the marketing guys reallly dispise Kirby and he's too dumb to realise that they are putting the company under.

I really have no idea why they would release the nids in tau month, testing doesn't seem quite right, after 8 years they could have released boxed dog turd and people would still likely be OMFG SO AMAZING'ing.

Might have been that they just want to release things with giant price tags, people will ignore those and see the models.

They're releasing them because that's what was in White Dwarf together. That way they're not just selling the new stuff, but using the new stuff to sell existing products. It's the same as buying a combo meal at a restaurant.

Well, its not for kids its for collectors having an army that has been played in exactly this way in a WD (no. 400) battle.

It's kind of like a really expensive, higher point value battleforce. I like the idea of it, but I really love the fluff behind things like that. Bummer I missed Battle for Macragge.

I believe its been said on other forums that the tau army is actually more expensive than buying it all separately. They may have fixed ot now though.

Though why on earth anyone would waste that much money on tau or nids, especially nids is beyond belief.

These "deals" show how bad GW are

I think that this nid bundle is an attempt by gw see if using the army in a white dwarf issue will cause people to want to buy an army more. They have packaged it as a cool looking, nicely painted hive fleet, almost implying that the army somehow is different than a normal group of kits.i think they're doing this and using bad units like carnifexes to get people to buy kits that they otherwise would not

One click bundles actually anger me to an irrational degree.

See, in most businesses, you offer a discount for buying in bulk, because the seller is guarenteed a certain amount of product movement, and can afford to "sweeten the deal," by offering a discount, that's how you get people to buy more in one go. Offer some discount, deal or savings, doesn't have to be huge, and people will buy more than they would have ordinarily. It's the basic logic behind the now-famous seasonal Steam Sales, various seasonal sales in big box stores and so on.

Take me for instance, I have a limited budget as a student, so I generally don't spend much per month on the hobby, at least not since I started building my first army. The only time I bought more than $100 was from bulk sellers online, who offer good prices for buying in quantity, like 3 Leman Russ tanks at $40 a pop, free shipping. I wanted to buy one of GW's Marine megaforces to build my Blood Ravens, but they didn't make any available where I lived, so I went back to my little trickle of purchases.

The crazy thing is Forgeworld understands bundles; they had their christmas bundles of various early mark armours, cataphractii terminators and contemptor dreadnoughts, and they had half decent savings on the bundles; you basically bought the bodies, and all the weapons were effectively free, which was about 10-20% savings, depending on the kits. They sold well, and FW decided to make them a permanent feature, and added a few more afterwards too. Models have a high enough markup on them that you can afford a discount to move more product, and it'll work pretty consistently. Megaforces sell out quickly when they're available, and those bundles GW released with Apocalypse did quite well, and then they turn around with these 1 click bundles which maker zero business sense.

Call it a sense of entitlement of the consumer or what have you, it doesn't change the fact that discounted bundles are the norm for 99% of industries, and reliably move additional product.

BrotherVord wrote:
I think that this nid bundle is an attempt by gw see if using the army in a white dwarf issue will cause people to want to buy an army more. They have packaged it as a cool looking, nicely painted hive fleet, almost implying that the army somehow is different than a normal group of kits.i think they're doing this and using bad units like carnifexes to get people to buy kits that they otherwise would not

You're almost there. Yes, it's simply packaging a similar army to encourage sales.

Adding the Carnifex to boost the kits sale? You must not have been around in 4th edition. That kit sold feth tons. Every Tyranid player wanted them, they were fairly inexpensive in dollar cost, and were bundled with everything they possibly could, even the Battleforce had them. It wasn't uncommon for a Tyranid player to fill out their Heavy Support and some of their Elite slots with all Carnifexes (ever heard the term Nidzilla? Carnifexes started it).

So no, the Carnifex wasn't put in there to make it sell - they don't need it to sell anymore. If they were building the bundle around models that needed to sell, there would be a few Trygons in there, which probably need to sell more to catch up to the Carnifex in sales volume.

The Carnifex is in there because the bundle emulates a studio members army, who just happened to have some Carnifexes in it.

I once bought a Falcon and 12 guardian bundle for under $60 Canadian.

Every night I half expect a phone call from GW claiming I owe them $44.

GW are not a firm seeking large sales volumes. They have a model which revolves around being a niche market firm, selling niche products at a high cost to customers who are dedicated to the company's products and happy to pay the premium prices.

Their strategy revolves around selling at high prices and making a profit on margins. They are not interested in pushing up sales volumes. Allegedly their recent communications to shareholders implied that higher prices are the way to go with lower volumes made up for with increased margins.

Some firms seek volume sales to boost profits, looking for economies of scale in production, etc. GW seem to think that reduced sales volumes are a plus, reducing production costs, warehousing, etc. I think they've made a conscious decision that they are not a mass manufacturer and will always be doing small runs, so they are never going to achieve significant economies of scale. Therefore, they are better off with less production at higher prices. That's my take.

They are not looking to sell huge volume, chasing sales with volume discounts, etc. They have a model in which they rely on dedicated customers for whom price is not an issue. As long as their base remains fairly stable this is fine for them, as one leaves another joins. What they don't seek is to add more than they lose, stability is fine.

Their recent policies show that they are feeling for the edge of their customer's willingness to pay, pushing up prices to see when sales will drop enough to make the price rise unprofitable. They are happy for their customer base to fall as long at the profits remain. For example if they lose 5% of their sales but profits go up 10% they are happy with that.

On the face of it this is a dangerous policy, risking hitting a tipping point that could quickly destroy the company. That would be if the people running the firm are looking long term. I don't think they are, I think they're looking at maximal profit. I think those running GW see it as a money-maker, if it goes bang tomorrow that's fine as they are not looking to build a mega-empire but rather to maximise short-term profits. All the strategies of the firm show a desire to make as much cash as possible in the short-term. There is no long-term strategy as declining sales volumes with increasing margins are not sustainable. However, as I said I don't think those running the firm care much about the hobby itself.

That's the problem as I see it, hobbyists love the fluff, the models, the whole thing. They want to see GW grow and provide a model where it is comfortably affordable so they can build up large forces. They take a long-term view in which they want to see the firm prosper into the future with a large customer base. For these people things like discounts, sales, promotions are a big positive. However, I think those running GW see it as a cash-cow. They want to generate maximum profits in the short term. If GW goes bust they don't care they have made their money. I often wonder how come GW's profits are so low for a firm that has such enormous profit margins, I have come to the conclusion that lots of the income goes out on wages at the top, bonuses and perks, etc.

In short it's not a company run by hobbyists looking for a long hobby future, it's a firm run by businesspeople who are looking to make maximum cash from the hobbyists and if this leads to the collapse of GW then the calculation is about whether more money can be made in the short-term with an aggressive pricing policy instead of steady long term sales. I think for some at the top maximum profits now are somehow important, maybe they want to fill up their pension pots quicker? From the prespective of business it is perfectly sensible, but it is not from a hobbyist viewpoint. It's constrasting ideas of what the company should be and how it should be run.

530 odd pounds didn't seem too bad to me. Being in New Zealand I went over to the NZ GW and saw it was 1637NZD... almost spewed on my laptop... thats around 900pounds equivalent. As with many things its cheaper to buy it in UK or US even if its from a GW and ship it over.