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They're not suspending her for cutting fruit with a knife. She could have borrowed a knife in the canteen for that. They probably objected to her carrying a knife on her person all day. Most people would have an issue with a child carrying a knight in the bag all around school.

Also I'd now like to know what this butter knife looked like. Because a butter knife is rounded and blunt, you can't cut anything with them. If you can cut fruit you can cut a person.

Again, should the school stop pupils carrying knives in their bags? Because that's the issue. The school are not suspending people for 'cutting fruit with a knife'.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They're not suspending her for cutting fruit with a knife. She could have borrowed a knife in the canteen for that. They probably objected to her carrying a knife on her person all day. Most people would have an issue with a child carrying a knight in the bag all around school.

Also I'd now like to know what this butter knife looked like. Because a butter knife is rounded and blunt, you can't cut anything with them. If you can cut fruit you can cut a person.

Again, should the school stop pupils carrying knives in their bags? Because that's the issue. The school are not suspending people for 'cutting fruit with a knife'.

Does the school allow students to have scissors? A lot of schools allow students to have scissors. If they're allowed to have scissors there's no reason not to allow them to have a butter knife for their lunch. Even if they don't allow scissors, a student could stab someone with a pencil or a pen. There is no point in which "Students are allowed to have all these things that are capable of inflicting stab wounds, but they aren't allowed to use a butter knife" makes sense. Who cares if she's carrying a butter knife in her lunch box or bag?

And if they don't want to allow butter knives, then fine. I think it's stupid, but whatever. My problem is suspending the student for doing something completely non-threatening, when they could have just taken the knife away.

As stated already, there are a million more dangerous things in schools than a butter knife: exacto knives in the art room, scissors, compasses, pens, pencils, text books, science room chemicals, chairs, microphone/amp wires, VCRs, DVD players, flights of stairs...the list goes on. All of those things can and have caused serious injury to students by the actions of other students. Yet they're still okay in school, but a butter knife isn't. Ridiculous.

To be fair, she could've asked the kitchen staff to cut it for her. No knives taken in and problem solved.

If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

 d-usa wrote:
If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

And this right here wins the thread.

 d-usa wrote:
If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

Exactly, when the kids get given the scissors the teachers know they are there and are looking for it but if some kid decides to bring in knife the teachers won't know about it and would only be able to react to any given situation instead of being able to avoid it

 d-usa wrote:
If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

What about schools that offer cooking as an elective or when you're eating lasagne for lunch what alternatives can I use to cut my lasagne that I had for lunch?

Scissors are usually small, blunt and kept in classrooms. Kids don't have sharp scissors they carry around with them. Similarly there are knives in the art room or canteen, but they stay there.

 dogma wrote:

 deathholydeath wrote:

In the right hands, anything can be dangerous. While I understand why these rules exist, I also feel that ultimately, no amount of banning found-objects can stop violence in schools.

The aim is to reduce the consequences of violence (and make it more difficult to commit horrific violence), not to eliminate it.

Yes. I just wish we could find a way to make our schools safer without also making them more prison-like than they already are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

What about schools that offer cooking as an elective or when you're eating lasagne for lunch what alternatives can I use to cut my lasagne that I had for lunch?

Classroom instruments would stay in that classroom and only come into use under direct supervision. And I imagine school issue plasticware will work just fine for lasagna.

I would hate to live in a society that assumes its schoolchildren are constantly on the edge of breaking out in hand to hand combat.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I would hate to live in a society that assumes its schoolchildren are constantly on the edge of breaking out in hand to hand combat.

So would I.

You know, I'm going to make sure my offspring never bring anything against the rules to class.

They will, however, be raised from birth with an intense Improvised Combatives course.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I would hate to live in a society that assumes its schoolchildren are constantly on the edge of breaking out in hand to hand combat.

Evidently you've never been to Barnsley.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I would hate to live in a society that assumes its schoolchildren are constantly on the edge of breaking out in hand to hand combat.

Then don't move to Hackney. Sad truth is that in a school of 900 children, you will have a minimum of 2 serious fights per week, several less serious every day, pupil on teacher violence several times per term and outright GBH cases a couple of times per year. Watch season 4 of The Wire. It is scary how right that show is about the lives of inner city kids.

I'll add that amongst your pupils in that school, you will also find some of the finest Human beings on the planet.

edit: sorry, mostly on my phone this weekend, so can't type worth a damn!

While it was another win for zero-tolerance policies, it was a rather stupid reason to bring a knife to school. Guess no one taught the kid or her parents about ziplok baggies and cutting fruit before setting off? Hell, even I knew that one!

 Hordini wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I would hate to live in a society that assumes its schoolchildren are constantly on the edge of breaking out in hand to hand combat.

So would I.

Well in our defense, my Jr. High did have a riot. Even flipped a van. It was awesome.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
While it was another win for zero-tolerance policies, it was a rather stupid reason to bring a knife to school. Guess no one taught the kid or her parents about ziplok baggies and cutting fruit before setting off? Hell, even I knew that one!

I believe KillKrazy pointed out that several fruits tend to discolor and start to "go bad" moments after being exposed to air. While you're entirely right, cutting them up at home would have saved her this issue, it just seems stupid to not just use the plasticware at the school...

I just think children should be taught how to cut up and eat fruits properly. It is a valuable life skill.

Oh look, fresh sliced apples without violating any no-knife policies!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I just think children should be taught how to cut up and eat fruits properly. It is a valuable life skill.

maybe thats why she had the knife.

Agreed, however that she should be using plastic wear at school.
Now here's something I don't get. Its lunch right? They don't have butter knives or such at school?

 d-usa wrote:
Oh look, fresh sliced apples without violating any no-knife policies!

You should the mess of someone's nose you can make with one of those things.

Look at those blades. There's like 8 of them. THATS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

It has plastic handles, is its okay. Indefinite detention if you bring an all metal model to school.

I don't remember what age range Middle School is (they don't exist in my neck of the woods) but surely any student who eats on the premises has access to eating knives? Kids often used to nick them at my primary school.

I could have sworn my high school cafeteria had metal butter knives, forks, and spoons. That was in the early 90s, though. (Yeah, I'm older than most of you. Shut up and get off my lawn!)

I could be mistaken.

I'm dating a teacher, and I find a lot of school policies dumb as hell. However, a lot of the "crazy" ones are really meant to protect the schools from lawsuits, the teachers from lawsuits, and (sometimes) the safety of the kids.

I disagree with the suspension of a middle school kid for having a butter knife instead of the Principal taking it and calling in their parent to get it, but I understand how they're hands are often tied in these situations. It's sad, though.

My 9-year old nephew stapled his finger accidentally and my brother had to be called in from work to remove it. The school nurse couldn't be bothered with the liability. God Bless the American education system.

 d-usa wrote:
If you ever wonder why zero-tolerance-policies were enacted, just read most of the responses in this thread.

The reason knives are not allowed but scissors are is not because knives are more dangerous than scissors. They both are equally dangerous. The reason the knife is not allowed is because it has ZERO purpose and use in a school setting.

I know it is not that difficult, and I honestly don't think that the majority of posters here are too stupid to realize this. Pencils and scissors can hurt people, but they also have a valid school function. A knife can hurt someone, and has no function in a school setting at all. Please tell me you guys are not too dumb to figure that out.

Eating healthy at lunch is not a school function? And you can hurt someone more with a BUTTER KNIFE than with a SHARP PENCIL?

I question your priorities.

EDIT: Heck, you can strangle someone with a belt... or shoelaces. Looks like we've gotta ban belts and shoelaces.

(Yeah, I know they won't. At least not until someone DOES get strangled, anyway...)

 kronk wrote:
I could have sworn my high school cafeteria had metal butter knives, forks, and spoons.

We had plastic sporks.

But we also had a wood shop with a belt sander, table saw, and bandsaw.

Only thing we where allowed where plastic sporks.
SPorks can rot in hell.