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30 May 2013: Figured it was time to update the first post here with bit of a more precise summary rather than the somewhat vague stuff from before. The original introduction to the thread is still included in a quoteblock below.

Aetherverse:

is a 25-30mm scale sci-fi (or fantasy, or modern) unit-based miniatures wargame

has a "universal" army list creation system allowing for the building of army lists to fit whatever models (or background) you like

has a unique "Weighted Random" activation system - all players are involved in the turn, rather than sitting around watching your opponents roll dice while you sit there... but also avoiding the problems inherent in an alternating system when a side outnumbers the other

features a background centered around travel between alternate universes, literally allowing for any background you might want to create for your army to fit into the game multiverse

is absolutely FREE. While I hope to sell "pretty" book and digital versions in the future, the game rules themselves are going to always be available in a plain PDF format

The game is currently in an Alpha Release: the core rules have been released and I am adding in new sections on a monthly basis. The schedule for these releases are as follows:

1 May: Core Rules

5 June: Personalities and Leaders

3 July: Vehicles

7 August: Aircraft and Artillery

4 September: Magic and Mutation

October: Cover/Terrain Overhaul

The Updates are all complete ahead of schedule, as of 1 September

The most current version of the rules will always be available at a link at the top of the page, or from the Aetherverse Page at TitaniumSpork.org.

Old Original Post wrote:
Hi, all.

After doing a bit of a lockdown while the big while elephant of the 40K 6E release was stomping about, I've been back to working on the 2nd Edition of Aetherverse. The current playtest rules are essentially complete: the entirety of the base Army Design System is now in place, allowing for a complete experience with the game. This is very close to what the "Alpha Release" Core Rules will consist of, so this is the best chance to add your influence to how that edition is going to turn out. My plan is for the Alpha "book" to release in May, with monthly releases after that expanding the rules.

The rules can be downloaded from the Aetherverse Page at TitaniumSpork.org. Feedback and questions are welcome here, there... pretty much anywhere!

A brief description from the website:

What is Aetherverse?

Aetherverse is a tabletop sci-fi wargame that I first published in 2004. The concept of the game was to create a sort of "universal" rules system that players could use to create and play with armies sourced from any of the many miniatures manufacturers on the market. While this had been done before in a generic sense, I designed the system to build armies that had real character rather than just being a collection of numbers.

What's the game like?

Designed to be fairly fast-paced (the 2nd edition cuts the required die rolls down by at least 25%), the game is a mass skirmish level wargame (20-100 models in an army is sort of the "core" target). The system uses a "weighted random" activation system which keeps both players active during the course of a game turn (rather than a clumsy system in which one player does everything while the other sits and watches) and allows for true tactical movement such as feints and outflanking maneuvers.

How Much will it cost?

Aetherverse is going to be free. I don't really have the desire to go through the process of starting up a company again, nor to seek out funding and the like just to print a book. I'll be releasing the completed game via Creative Commons and anyone will be able to download a "basic copy" of the game (meaning it will be limited in terms of graphics, fiction and the like, it'll still be the full game). I'll probably sell "high quality" versions (both digital and print) for those that wish to support the game (and might consider going Kickstarter for those) but there will never by any cost required to actually play the game.

I wouldn't call 20-100 models a skirmish 0.o

 doc1234 wrote:
I wouldn't call 20-100 models a skirmish 0.o

I might be thinking in terms of different game scales... plus, to be honest, 100 models is likely on the extremely high side of things. The model count for games is probably in the range of a mid-sized Warmachine battle, maybe? There's not currently a "standard" point value, either, though the sample armies were built out to 500 pts.

Honestly my thinking for calling it a "skirmish" game is that it's not quite in the realm of "Mass Battles" like Flames of War and because vehicles are fairly rare (or will be, once Vehicle Rules are added into the game).

Hmmm may want to look for another term then, Skirmish is misleading. Generally applies to games with forces of say 5-12 models per side. 50-100 IS mass battle in the same way 40k or something is.

 doc1234 wrote:
Hmmm may want to look for another term then, Skirmish is misleading. Generally applies to games with forces of say 5-12 models per side. 50-100 IS mass battle in the same way 40k or something is.

I'll see what I can think of.

Thanks!

Might I suggest 'Mass Skirmish' as a name? Combines both, to hit a midpoint.

 Lord of Timbraxia wrote:
Might I suggest 'Mass Skirmish' as a name? Combines both, to hit a midpoint.

Done! Free copy to Timbraxia.

Hooray! Free copy for a.... free ruleset..... shucks

Are you the original developer? I bought the rule set way back when.

Are you planning to release a Necromunda/Mordheim-like version as was in development when this went underground the first time around?

I liked the rules from before, but never had a chance to play them. :(

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:
Are you the original developer? I bought the rule set way back when.

Are you planning to release a Necromunda/Mordheim-like version as was in development when this went underground the first time around?

I liked the rules from before, but never had a chance to play them. :(

~Eric

I am the original writer, yes. Thanks for buying it the first time around.

We'll see about "modded" versions like the RPG-esque thing I was planning back then, but right now I'm just planning on slowly getting the game released over the course of a few months.

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
Are you the original developer? I bought the rule set way back when.

Are you planning to release a Necromunda/Mordheim-like version as was in development when this went underground the first time around?

I liked the rules from before, but never had a chance to play them. :(

~Eric

I am the original writer, yes. Thanks for buying it the first time around.

We'll see about "modded" versions like the RPG-esque thing I was planning back then, but right now I'm just planning on slowly getting the game released over the course of a few months.

Cool. And kudos to you for taking a second run at it.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

Cool. And kudos to you for taking a second run at it.

Thanks! Technically this is like the 3rd run at the 2nd run, but I think I've finally found a good way of going about it that will keep my head in the game, so to speak. No more starting-and-stopping.

In news: I'm currently in the process of "laying out" the Alpha Release, which is the system's core rulebook. It'll include all of the necessary rules to play the game (the gameplay rules and the army design system). Since this will be a digital-only release, I'm trying to make sure the layout is optimized to be easy to read on tablets. My Nexus 7 will be the primary testing platform, but once I bet the "book" completed I'll put it up for review to try and get folks with iPads, Nooks, and other tablets to take a look at it.

Also: I’ve switched http://titaniumspork.org to a different provider for the “Social Login” services (the box on the site that lets you log in with Facebook, Twitter, etc). The old one updated and caused some issues with the site, so it had to go.

If you had problems trying to sign up before, give it another go. Similarly, if you have problems trying to sign up or log in now, shoot a message to jason@ the website address. If you don’t see the login box… that probably means you’re logged in already.

I am currently finalizing the Alpha Release (the core rules) and the last step is for me to build some sample army lists to include with the book. I'm going to include a total of 10-12 army lists, and I've picked 5 armies from the old book to be carried forward into this one (as many of the lists rely on features of the 1E book that will not be in the Alpha Release):

-Roman Legion XXXVII Centauri
Plus, I will be adding a core Roman Legion (XIII Caesar's Own) that will represent the more advanced Roman army rather than the more backwater 37th (which is more of a garrison force.
-The Machinacons
-Yamato Squadron
-The Knights of the Wheel
-Tuatha de Dan'ur

This leaves me with 4-6 army "slots" for the book. What I'm looking for from the community are ideas for what these armies should be. Full army designs are not needed, just a paraphrasing of their theme, their fighting style, or their overall look. Linking to something that you think would be a good line of minis to base an army on is welcome as well.

Thanks, all!

Totally agree the labeling the game as "skirmish" (even "mass skirmish" is misleading. Anytime models are in units I think "wargame" instead. Are you against just calling it a tabletop wargame? I don't think mixed forces of vehicles and troops are needed for a game to be called mass battle. But I DO think you need individual unit control, lots of depth to each character, and plenty of customization to call it a skirmish game.

Anyways I had a couple of unasked for notes on the rules

I like the alternating, random initiative and the ability to do the actions in any order. I find a lot of games get stuck in the 40k approach of having the whole army move in the same turn. That and forcing people to move, shoot, charge in a set order.

You have difficult terrain as a TODO. What are you planning for that? Or is it basically half movement (like you have now) but fleshed out and explained? Or are you going for a totally different system?

Shooting seems sort of similar to 40k with the roll to hit, roll to wound, and Overkill. But I like roll + stat > TN. Er wait, equal to TN = success, right? I like the addition of Critical Fumbles and Hits. Also having pinning be an effect right after the shot probably makes combat feel a bit more realistic. About how often do you find enemies failing their pinning tests?
How many D10s are you generally rolling in a shooting attack? Do you find it harder to manage compared to D6s?

For melee I like the option of Fighting Defensively. Not sure if I like initiative order being equal to DEX though. What about just having the unit who spent the Melee action get to attack, and the enemy can attack back during their activation only if they also spend a Melee action, instead of both attacking each round. Mainly because it's not like shooting goes back and forth (ie: attack, then return fire), so why would melee? Then again I'm a big fan of having the shooting and melee system be the same.
I'm also not a fan of having STR as a separate stat that only factors into melee. I can understand wanting to differentiate stronger attackers, but I'm kind of getting flashbacks to 40k, and I always look at their statlines and think "This so doesn't fit a sci-fi game and is just jammed in from fantasy Warhammer".

As to your actual question about army types, I don't know if you have a "default" universe or what, since you are saying the rules are universal. So then making up armies is a little tough. Time travelling people? Savage lizard people? Demolition experts from an apocalyptic town? I don't know what would fit

 bosky wrote:
Totally agree the labeling the game as "skirmish" (even "mass skirmish" is misleading. Anytime models are in units I think "wargame" instead. Are you against just calling it a tabletop wargame? I don't think mixed forces of vehicles and troops are needed for a game to be called mass battle. But I DO think you need individual unit control, lots of depth to each character, and plenty of customization to call it a skirmish game.

I generally refer to it as a tabletop wargame before any other descriptor, skirmish is just something I add on after everything else when. This isn't really a major point, I'll drop that descriptor when I start doing the final release stuff.

I'll comment on the rest of your post in a sec...

Here's an army list idea:

The Würtige Königstruppen - First Cohort of the Emperor.
Spreading the creed of the Technocratic Empire of Würtigeland by force across known space, the Cohorts of the Imperial Army are a force not known for their acceptance of loss. Indeed, the very concept of defeat is lost on them, as the subjugated people of the Würtige Empire will reluctantly restify. Paving the way of the Imperial Army is the First Cohort of the Emperor, the infamous Königstruppen. The unstoppable force that has never met an immovable object, the Königstruppen carry the best weapons in the Empire, either forged back home on the planet of Würtigeland, or manufactured by the peoples they have conquered. Indomitable, irrepressible, inevitable.

Units:
Landwehr - weaker troops, larger than average units, below average morale.
Soldaten - average troops, heavily armoured, good morale when in ranks formation, poor morale when in loose order.
Blitzars - assault troops, heavily armoured, jetpacks, shotguns and morning star flails, dangerous when hit in the rear/isolated.
Ülans - quadrupedal robot steeds, heavily armoured, electro-lances, slower than usual bikes or cavalry.

Vehicles:
Autowagen - Armoured Personnel carrier, carries 12 men, fast, weak armour.
Würtpanzer - Light tank, fast, heavily armed, weak armour.

Leaders
Hauptmann - Leader character, bestows morale benefits on surrounding men.

It's not much, but I think that'd be enough for a 'mass skirmish'/small wargame, right?

 bosky wrote:
Anyways I had a couple of unasked for notes on the rules

No such thing as unasked for notes! The whole point of putting them out into public is to get commentary and feedback.

I like the alternating, random initiative and the ability to do the actions in any order. I find a lot of games get stuck in the 40k approach of having the whole army move in the same turn. That and forcing people to move, shoot, charge in a set order.

Thanks. The entire reason for me even starting to design the game those many years ago was frustration with the 40K standard I-Go-You-Go system. Having my Eldar tanks blown up on turn 1 was just so frustrating I had to do something about it.

You have difficult terrain as a TODO. What are you planning for that? Or is it basically half movement (like you have now) but fleshed out and explained? Or are you going for a totally different system?

I've put that into v0.14 (hasn't been released yet). At this point I've just gone with "halves movement" (and grants up to Cover 2 depending on the unit's size). I might add more detail to it when I start expanding the rules, but for right now I'm comfortable with that level of abstraction.

Equal to TN = success, right?

Indeed. I believe I have that as the first line in the "Important Universal Rules" section.

About how often do you find enemies failing their pinning tests?

Really varies, since it's a combination of the unit's Morale vs. the wounds caused. I've not noticed it happening more than would be statistically expected.

How many D10s are you generally rolling in a shooting attack? Do you find it harder to manage compared to D6s?

Units range from 1 to 20 models, and heavy weapons can fire up to 4 times... though I expect that most units are going to not have more than one or two shots, given the multiplicative cost of additional shots on a weapon. So, 10-20 dice is probably around average. I've had no problems rolling d10's, but I'm also a longtime RPG player so rolling large numbers of "odd" dice isn't really a problem.

For melee I like the option of Fighting Defensively. Not sure if I like initiative order being equal to DEX though. What about just having the unit who spent the Melee action get to attack, and the enemy can attack back during their activation only if they also spend a Melee action, instead of both attacking each round. Mainly because it's not like shooting goes back and forth (ie: attack, then return fire), so why would melee?

It's designed that way so that melee, when it happens, is resolved fairly quickly. It's supposed to be this swirling, deadly, mess. I also wanted to be able to differentiate units' close combat capabilities to a degree more than just "their player happened to get to activate them first".

I'm also not a fan of having STR as a separate stat that only factors into melee. I can understand wanting to differentiate stronger attackers, but I'm kind of getting flashbacks to 40k, and I always look at their statlines and think "This so doesn't fit a sci-fi game and is just jammed in from fantasy Warhammer"

There is an ability that was in the first edition that I'm working on getting back into this one (I'd set it aside and forgot to re-implement it) that allows units to use Light Weapons in close combat, including using their DEX to hit. Once I put this back in, it'll put close combat back into the realm of "extremely close-in fighting" that isn't necessarily the 40K "guns and shields" thing. It'll be more like "submachine guns and pistols, except for either crazies, primitives, or people from the Dune universe".

Yeah I'm amazed when games still use UGO-IGO. Nothing like sitting down for 45 minutes while your army is cut to ribbons, haha.
Would you consider an alternate dice based activation instead of tokens or playing cards? Basically a roll-off. Just in case people don't have little glass beads on hand or something.

Makes sense for Difficult Terrain. That seems like a pretty standard approach so I think people will be comfortable with it. I just thought since you had it as a TODO you might have some crazy scheme saved up

I like the "equal to TN" instead of "greater than equal to", since that is definitely not something you see all the time.

Good thing people can buy tubes of D10s, since even RPGers probably wouldn't have more than five or ten on hand (now D20s might be a different story...).

Using DEX over STR for melee could make sense. Sort of like Weapon Finesse from D&D (not sure if you're familiar). The downside is then STR becomes a lot less important than DEX, since DEX would handle shooting, initiative, and melee for some characters.

- Well if you're going the alternate Earth universe I'd instantly say British Empire. Sounds like you already have Roman, but some pith helmet wearing red coats with various native troops could be cool.
- Dinosaurs never being wiped out by an asteroid might be another option (although I could be biased since I have dinos in my game ).
- An alternate history approach where the Black Death plague wipes out more of the west, so China and other eastern countries end up dominating the world.
- Could go with the more sci-fi idea of something lying dormant under the ice in Antarctica.
- Wild west cowboys. Or maybe alternate history USA where the wild west hung around for longer in general, so you'd get something a little more steampunky (if that's your thing).
- Easy to do a post apocalyptic faction, say that the Cold War heated up and they are the desperate, hungry survivors.

 bosky wrote:
Would you consider an alternate dice based activation instead of tokens or playing cards? Basically a roll-off. Just in case people don't have little glass beads on hand or something.

The very, very, very original design of the game used dice-based, and it just took way too long to roll for every unit (it was based on the system from Clan War, an L5R minis game). If the players just roll a die and take turns, that defeats the purpose of the weighted random system since it gives a massive advantage to a side with more units than the other.

If someone is coming to AV from another minis game, they'll have a ton of dice, most likely d6's, and most likely in one or two colors. As long as each players' dice are different colors but the same size, they'll work well as activation counters.

I like the "equal to TN" instead of "greater than equal to", since that is definitely not something you see all the time.

Equals TN = Success is what's used in the d20-based RPGs.

Good thing people can buy tubes of D10s, since even RPGers probably wouldn't have more than five or ten on hand (now D20s might be a different story...).

If the RPG'ers in question played any White Wolf games, they'll have quite an excess of d10's.

Using DEX over STR for melee could make sense. Sort of like Weapon Finesse from D&D (not sure if you're familiar). The downside is then STR becomes a lot less important than DEX, since DEX would handle shooting, initiative, and melee for some characters.

DEX has always been the 2nd most important stat in the game (behind TEK), and it's something that I've just had to come to accept. STR does get used for a couple other things in special abilities, and I'll be adding other uses for it when I start adding in other features.

- Well if you're going the alternate Earth universe I'd instantly say British Empire. Sounds like you already have Roman, but some pith helmet wearing red coats with various native troops could be cool.

The first edition book actually has a British Empire army in it. It just features the use of the Artillery Rules, which won't be in for a few months after release.

- Dinosaurs never being wiped out by an asteroid might be another option (although I could be biased since I have dinos in my game ).
- An alternate history approach where the Black Death plague wipes out more of the west, so China and other eastern countries end up dominating the world.
- Could go with the more sci-fi idea of something lying dormant under the ice in Antarctica.
- Wild west cowboys. Or maybe alternate history USA where the wild west hung around for longer in general, so you'd get something a little more steampunky (if that's your thing).
- Easy to do a post apocalyptic faction, say that the Cold War heated up and they are the desperate, hungry survivors.

Dinos evolving into something a bit more intelligent (and probably much smaller) is definitely a possibility. Finding minis for them may be difficult, which might be why I left them out of the first book (though I included Cat People, so I dunno). Other current Earth Cultures being more prominent is always a possibility, and the "Knights of the Wheel" are a sort of post-apoc army (they were survivors who came across a "Relic" of "Saint Harley of Davidson" and are now a Chivalrous Order of Biker Gangs. ). Steampunk I definitely want to work in in some manner, too. We'll see how that one comes across.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Equals TN = Success is what's used in the d20-based RPGs.

Wait, no, they all use greater than equal to. If you are rolling to hit 14 AC a result of 16 will be a success.

 bosky wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Equals TN = Success is what's used in the d20-based RPGs.

Wait, no, they all use greater than equal to. If you are rolling to hit 14 AC a result of 16 will be a success.

Sorry, yes, Equals-or-is-greater-than. I meant specifically between "equals succeeds or equals fails".

Ah I see. But in Aetherverse's case it's exactly equal = success, not greater than equal to, correct?

 bosky wrote:
Ah I see. But in Aetherverse's case it's exactly equal = success, not greater than equal to, correct?

No. It's the d20 version: equaling or exceeding the TN gives you a success.

EDIT: I see how that might be ambiguous in the rules. I'll add "or exceeds" to that line.

EDIT 2: Fixed. In v0.14, the rule will read "• Any rolls that equal or exceed a target number (TN) are successes."

The intent of that particular line was to stress that matching the TN does count as a success as opposed to systems where you MUST exceed it, not that ONLY matching was a success.

Well now that makes a looooot more sense. I was thinking the number had to be exactly equal. Thanks for clarifying for the next release.

Just made a fairly major-ish adjustment to the army design system. After careful consideration, I have come to decide that I somewhat overcompensated with the costs of extra weapons in a unit not being divided by the number of models in the unit.

I've made a post about the new wording at the site, rather than just including it in the v0.14 patch notes, since it's a fairly fundamental change to the way armies are built.

Thanks!

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Would you consider an alternate dice based Other current Earth Cultures being more prominent is always a possibility, and the "Knights of the Wheel" are a sort of post-apoc army (they were survivors who came across a "Relic" of "Saint Harley of Davidson" and are now a Chivalrous Order of Biker Gangs. ).

I love this Coming from a fairly decent biker family myself, I definitely think I could get used to this army

 bosky wrote:
Using DEX over STR for melee could make sense. Sort of like Weapon Finesse from D&D (not sure if you're familiar).

This change has been implemented (well, more like re-implemented since it was present in the 1st Edition). The wording of the rule is as follows:

Light weapons in melee combat:
Units equipped with Light ranged weapons that are engaged in close combat may use those weapons instead of melee weapons as follows:
1. When rolling to hit, they use their DEX rather than STR and may not Fight Defensively. Their TN to hit is not changed from normal melee (as their targets attempt to push them out of firing position).
2. When rolling to wound, use the ranged weapon’s DAM and do not add the firing model’s STR.
3. Critical hits, failures, and overkill all still apply, as do the chances for a ranged weapon to suffer catastrophic failure.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, as in this news post:

The release date for the core rules has now been set: May 1, 2013. Each subsequent segment of the rules will be released on the first Wednesday of each month until the Alpha Release rules are completed. After that, themed monthly releases will begin.

The schedule for the Alpha Release rules are as follows:

1 May 2013: Core Rules
5 June 2013: Personalities and Commanders
3 July 2013: Vehicles
7 August 2013: Aircraft and Artillery
4 September 2013: Magic and Mutation

Welcome back!

I also picked up Aetherverse back in the day.

With all the new projects launching I've been thinking for a while the time is right for a good universal system. Honestly as much as I might like the new Warzone, Dreamforge, the steampunk game etc, who has time to learn new rule sets and then teach them to friends.

Dunno if I have time for Aetherverse but I feel good knowing it's out there.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
With all the new projects launching I've been thinking for a while the time is right for a good universal system. Honestly as much as I might like the new Warzone, Dreamforge, the steampunk game etc, who has time to learn new rule sets and then teach them to friends.

Yeah, that was kind of the final impetus to get me going enough to work through the inertia that had stalled the last couple of attempts at getting this finished. There are all these great miniatures out there that just need a good home, other than being a stand-in for some 40K army.