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 Ailaros wrote:
I mean, I'm scratching my head trying to think of a unit that your opponent brought that he would want to rush forward with that instead he could sit back and be nearly as effective with while shooting from cover.

You're scratching your head because you've created a false dilemma here. A unit might have to choose between, say, moving 6" and not having cover or moving 4-5" and having cover. Or the unit might move 6" into cover with another in-cover position 5" away. Now if they run and roll a 4 their player has to choose between moving the 4" into the open between cover or staying in their current cover and throwing away their run move. In this kind of case the unit is still moving up to engage you, the only question is speed vs. safety.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zoat wrote:
I was also carefully trying to steer the discussion away from Vendettas, veterans etc and back into the Heavy Support slot...

But that's a very relevant discussion. If you have a heavy support choice that is trying to do the same things as a Vendetta but does them much less efficiently it's probably a sign that you need to find a better heavy support choice.

 Peregrine wrote:

But that's a very relevant discussion. If you have a heavy support choice that is trying to do the same things as a Vendetta but does them much less efficiently it's probably a sign that you need to find a better heavy support choice.

Vendetta is the best unit in the game. You cannot put anything that is better than Vendetta in your HS slots. However, since you cannot put Vendettas in your HS slots either, this doesn't matter.

 Crimson wrote:
Vendetta is the best unit in the game. You cannot put anything that is better than Vendetta in your HS slots. However, since you cannot put Vendettas in your HS slots either, this doesn't matter.

You're missing the point. If you're taking a LR to kill tanks and do very little else that's competing directly with the Vendetta and it's a bad option if it can't match the Vendetta's efficiency in that role. That doesn't mean heavy support is worthless, it just means that you need to find a different role for your heavy support. For example, Vendettas aren't good at removing infantry from cover so a Colossus is a perfectly valid choice that doesn't get compared to the Vendetta.

Do you not feel that the same things can be achieved for cheaper and better with other choices - like artillery?
I mean, my basilisk can do everything the LRBT does in terms of offence but also ignore directional cover. Whilst also being a lot stronger against vehicles.

As for bringing something that will survive and contribute, do you not feel that another Russ variant would do the same, but contribute in a more meaningful way?

The point of the question was to open the discussion on the topic. I was curious why zoat was willing to bring something that they know the weakness of. Your knee-jerk reaction was silly.

@Ailaros

Peregrine got it about right. I think there are also situations when two potential battle cannon hits wiping the squad is enough make you wait that extra turn to coordinate your movement or wait for your deepstrikers/flankers etc to arrive.

@Griddlelol

I do not own any artillery (yet)... Hypothetically I agree that artillery could replace at least one LRBT. I think in most games the terrain here would probably allow me to hide one piece of artillery out of sight, but apart from that aren't artillery really easy to kill?

As for other russ variants, what would you suggest for the same role?

What I like with the LRBT is its durability and range. Artillery can provide similar capabilities (if hidden), but I'm not sure about another russ.


Again, big disclaimer. I'm far better at mathhammering than actually playing the game, so if you are here for advice listen to the other guys!

 Griddlelol wrote:
Do you not feel that the same things can be achieved for cheaper and better with other choices - like artillery?
I mean, my basilisk can do everything the LRBT does in terms of offence but also ignore directional cover. Whilst also being a lot stronger against vehicles.

As for bringing something that will survive and contribute, do you not feel that another Russ variant would do the same, but contribute in a more meaningful way?

The point of the question was to open the discussion on the topic. I was curious why zoat was willing to bring something that they know the weakness of. Your knee-jerk reaction was silly.

First and formost, my apologizes to Griddelol. I wasn't trying to bash or start a fight. I just feel we need more in our replies at times in this section. It's not like zoat said "I have every model made for the IG X3, but choose to run a pair of Russes." If he had, then Mr. G's comments would have fit better. I remember first starting out and wishing I had all the suggested units. Again, sorry.

 Crimson wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
Well I meant troops, not vehicles. Vendettas are too cheap, no argument there. The fact that vets can take 3 BS4 special weapons is why I love them. Don't really want to change my play style, and vets are a fairly new addition IIRC (I missed 4th ed) so I doubt they'll be gone.
It's more of an equalisation that's needed. Buff the PISs a little, nerf the vets a little.

I don't get why they're troops. Veterans are obviously elites. Other armies at least need a tax character to move their elites into troops.

Yeah...perhaps making Vets Elites, and unlock them as Troops choices with the inclusion of Harker and/or some other IC, would be appropriate.

They're fine as is. Not sure how they can be considered as "bad" as a troop choice? I feel they are pretty balanced.