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 Mushkilla wrote:
And 125pts for 10 kroot and 3 krootox is inefficient how?

Because for the same 125 points you can get better shooting with basic kroot and dual missile pod crisis suits.

It's also important to remember that this book has I believe the most Ignores Cover weapons of any Codex to date. For this reason it is more important than ever to think about your basic armor save as well as the cover save that you can potentially get. Even a 2+ cover does not mean very much when it can be taken away by two 12 point drones. Kroot, with a 6+ base save, are much more vulnerable to this (as well as to the lethal Smart Missiles) than Fire Warriors are with a 4+ base save.

Indeed, in the Tau/Tau mirror match, Kroot are not very useful at all except when equipped with sniper rounds, and when they are equipped with sniper rounds they still don't do very much, since they can quite easily be engaged from outside their 24" range.

New tau vs New tau...lol that would be about as bad as 5th ed Ork vs Ork imo. Complete and utter chaos, basically whoever got to the good spot first wins for the most part.

The note about having the most anti-cover codex is a big feature. A lot of players forget that your own models provide intervening model 5+ cover, so its often hard (especially if you have some numbers on your side) to get clear shots with weapons that pen the armor of your target. So annoying when that random 5+ for intervening models saves an insta-pasting wound

Not to mention....i believe Tau are going to be the race that us Orks dont take bikernobz against. They have PLENTY of AP4 attacks and a couple marker light zaps will take away our cover, leaving us with a 5++ and FNP. Thats nearly the whole flippin army that can do that...that hurts lol. Im the only player at my group that has tau at all so i'll never have that issue though

 Vineheart01 wrote:
New tau vs New tau...lol that would be about as bad as 5th ed Ork vs Ork imo. Complete and utter chaos, basically whoever got to the good spot first wins for the most part.

The note about having the most anti-cover codex is a big feature. A lot of players forget that your own models provide intervening model 5+ cover, so its often hard (especially if you have some numbers on your side) to get clear shots with weapons that pen the armor of your target. So annoying when that random 5+ for intervening models saves an insta-pasting wound

Not to mention....i believe Tau are going to be the race that us Orks dont take bikernobz against. They have PLENTY of AP4 attacks and a couple marker light zaps will take away our cover, leaving us with a 5++ and FNP. Thats nearly the whole flippin army that can do that...that hurts lol.

Im the only player at my group that has tau at all so i'll never have that issue though

lol Right now, you're the only Tau player

I just thought of something, You can up the toughness of stealth teams by adding drones in! So with three stealth suits, shadowsun and 4 drones, you get a t4 stealth blob rather than the t3 one.

Likewise, you can up shadowsun to t4 by attaching her to drones.

I can't help but think a Farsight bomb could be lethal, if expensive.

Give a single bodyguard the CCN, MSSS, PEN, NSJ. Then give as many as you like fusion blasters and plasma rifles.

Give up your shooting with the supporting bodyguard, your 7 plasma rifles and 6 fusion blasters are all twinlinked, ignores cover, presumably BS5 from Markerlights, and able to deepstrike without scattering. Some quick mathammering give 16.2 dead MEQ, regardless of cover. Alternatively, 10 dead TEQ, or 5 Dead TH/SS. This is quite possibly the first time I've seen a shooting unit that can feasibly be both anti-horde and anti-elite

Meanwhile, any shooty survivors nearby you can throw the NSJ on to to give Gets Hot to them. Mostly for fun.

Can't imagine you'll see this often, but in games of Apocalypse...

EDIT: When I say expensive, I'm talking 600pts+...

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
I can't help but think a Farsight bomb could be lethal, if expensive.

Give a single bodyguard the CCN, MSSS, PEN, NSJ. Then give as many as you like fusion blasters and plasma rifles.

Give up your shooting with the supporting bodyguard, your 7 plasma rifles and 6 fusion blasters are all twinlinked, ignores cover, presumably BS5 from Markerlights, and able to deepstrike without scattering. Some quick mathammering give 16.2 dead MEQ, regardless of cover. Alternatively, 10 dead TEQ, or 5 Dead TH/SS. This is quite possibly the first time I've seen a shooting unit that can feasibly be both anti-horde and anti-elite

Meanwhile, any shooty survivors nearby you can throw the NSJ on to to give Gets Hot to them. Mostly for fun.

Can't imagine you'll see this often, but in games of Apocalypse...

EDIT: When I say expensive, I'm talking 600pts+...

I remember that full squad is something like under 900 with double shield drones each. quick questions though. it appears there is no limit to how many special equipment a single body guard can take. would like it if some one could confirm this.

Ok, people say kroot are good troops, let me correct that:

Kroot are medicore troops, the are the infantry squad of the empire, their only boon is the fact they are so godamn cheap you can field absurd amounts and hardly feel it in your points.

Firewarriors are the veterans, cost significantly more, but hit harder, take hits better and generally better equipped. plus, haywire grenades! I DARE you to drive your tanks next to my space goats!


Infiltration tactics, while amusing and totally viable, can be countered by good positioning.
These guys are not a "go to", nor are they "one of the best nits in the codex", they are viable and have their expendable uses, no more, no less.
You still need warriors to have a shard of objective-holding power. kroots are not that hard to kill, or to brake.

@desubot

As far as the codex is concerned you are right

Bodyguard has unlimited access to the so-called signature systems. With regular crisis shas'vre, it's one of their three choices

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
Bodyguard has unlimited access to the so-called signature systems. With regular crisis shas'vre, it's one of their three choices

You can still only take 1 of each per army though :(. Can you imagine an entire crisis team outfitted with onager gauntlets, FNP,T5, 2 wounds, and a 2+ save

As I haven't had a chance to look at the new Tau codex I have a question about the assisted overwatch rules. Are units that assist in overwatch confined to the one overwatch per turn/phase or can they overwatch multiple times?

For example. You have a two units of Kroot infront of a unit of Fire Warriors. Your opponent assaults both units of Kroot each with a different unit. Can the Fire Warriors assist with with the overwatch for both units of Kroot or just one?

 BayneMor wrote:
As I haven't had a chance to look at the new Tau codex I have a question about the assisted overwatch rules. Are units that assist in overwatch confined to the one overwatch per turn/phase or can they overwatch multiple times?

For example. You have a two units of Kroot infront of a unit of Fire Warriors. Your opponent assaults both units of Kroot each with a different unit. Can the Fire Warriors assist with with the overwatch for both units of Kroot or just one?

Just one. The only exception is HH Ace who can overwatch multiple times.

As far as I can tell these are the uses for kroot:
-Infiltrate/outflank for objectives
-infiltate/outflank for side aremor (3 autocannons and 20 rending sniper shots can glance quite a bit down).
-meat shield: alway have been, always will be.
-maximise support fire

Let me explain that last one. Say you set up your army including a gigantic kroot squad that maximises kroot, krootox and hounds. Deploy it spread out as far as coherency allows (huge area). Then simply deploy the rest of your army with to rules: must be within six inches of the kroot squad. And kroot must be blocking any aproach. You end up with on squad that must be assaulted first and is covered by the overwatch of the entire rest of your force.

What about farsight plus bodyguards (each with fusion, splitfire and shield gen) combined with a space marine librarian who has gate?

You get a ton of fusion guns who can split fire, ability to deepstrike every turn and not scatter, and a JSJ to reposition after you've laid down your damage. You can forgo one of the suits to take the ignores cover/twinlink shenanigans and a drone controller too

How large a squad of sniper drones can we get now? Can I take 6 drones and two spotters for 116 points ... and place them behind an argis for another 100 points and have stealthed, shrouded, drones pew pewing all game with rending? Or am i reading this incorrectly?

I'm having a game right now over vassal with a tau player.

I have learned one thing so far; do not fly a doom scythe right in front of a quad autocannon and a riptide with velocity track and override.

And watching shadowsun completely failing to kill a monolith within melta range is bloody hilarious

 felixcat wrote:

How large a squad of sniper drones can we get now? Can I take 6 drones and two spotters for 116 points ... and place them behind an argis for another 100 points and have stealthed, shrouded, drones pew pewing all game with rending? Or am i reading this incorrectly?

You can max out your sniper squad with 9 drones and 3 spotters for 174 points.

I was wondering how people would recommend running a Farsight Deathstar: Farsight, and 7 bodyguards all kitted out. By my estimates it takes up at LEAST 700 points, but with Farsight's no scatter deepstrike it all but guarantees you kill whatever you want to.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I was wondering how people would recommend running a Farsight Deathstar: Farsight, and 7 bodyguards all kitted out. By my estimates it takes up at LEAST 700 points, but with Farsight's no scatter deepstrike it all but guarantees you kill whatever you want to.

Attach a space marine librarian, then you can re-deepstrike every turn with gate of infinity

Back on the topic of kroot, do the rules allow you to take both kinds of ammo and choose each time you fire? Or is it you buy the upgrade and are left with snipers for the rest of the game.
Because having the upgrade (same price as old kroot) in reserve would make a great trick to keep up your sleeve in case you really needed those precision shots.

cryhavok wrote:
As far as I can tell these are the uses for kroot:
-Infiltrate/outflank for objectives
-infiltate/outflank for side aremor (3 autocannons and 20 rending sniper shots can glance quite a bit down).
-meat shield: alway have been, always will be.
-maximise support fire

Let me explain that last one. Say you set up your army including a gigantic kroot squad that maximises kroot, krootox and hounds. Deploy it spread out as far as coherency allows (huge area). Then simply deploy the rest of your army with to rules: must be within six inches of the kroot squad. And kroot must be blocking any aproach. You end up with on squad that must be assaulted first and is covered by the overwatch of the entire rest of your force.

That is some AWESOME shennanigans lol

@ dakka. yes you can choose which you're firing each time as long as you buy the upgrade for the sniper ammo, says so in the star in the summary in the back of the book

According to the note at the bottom of the weapon profiles page at the back of the codex, once you purchase the sniper shots you can pick between them.

Thanks both of you

So I just got my actual book in, and my word, this is pretty much everything I was worried about. Complete destruction of what tiny little bit was good about the Hammerhead, removal of other availability of str10/ap1 weapons, so enjoy getting squashed by guys who bring out the heavy armor as soon as they see you're playing Tau.

Removal of any ballistic skill modifying items, ensuring that you're forced to pour points into markerlight systems just to get back what you had before the book dropped. That was the reason I took Crisis Bodyguard squads. So I had access to the Shas'vre item list as well as the 3 pieces... So much for that idea. Markerlights themselves saw a nice buff, 2 successful hits == removal of an ADL, which is great, but really now, what army other than Tau is going to rely on an ADL to out-shoot us? Especially now? They'll just change deployment so they can get us in close combat.

Overwatching at BS2 instead of BS1 is nice, but I mean, that's it? for a support slot? Eeehhh... Then you've got the fact that the broadsides lose all their support abilities which anyone ever fielded them would still probably use - TA or ASS. I guess now Drone Controller on one so everything's BS3.... and a couple of multi-trackers so you can fire your SMS too?

I mean really, this codex did add a LOT of options, but it's all top-heavy. Sniper Drones got a huge boost, and HQ choices became varied and important. That's pretty much it. So in their haste to ensure there's a variance in the Tau lists, they basically ensured that variance will be the exact same in every list. You'll see varied HQ selections, and Markerlights.

I don't mind changes to the system here, but the simplest part of this is that it just feels like they weakened all the "FOTM" units, and left everything else pretty much the same. All in all I'm rather disappointed. I guess someone's GK or Necron army got beaten that one time by an unexpected Tau list, and they ensured that we'd have extremely vulnerable weak points to take advantage of so that would never happen again.

What do people think about mixing Drones and Crisis Suits for different tasks, using Target Locks everywhere?

For example:
Crisis Commander with Drone Controller, Target Lock, Fusion Blaster, 2 Gun Drones
3 Crisis Suits with Fusion Blasters, Target Locks, 6 Gun Drones

Maybe not a great unit, but it's just an example. 4 Meltaguns at one target, 8 bs5 gun drones at another. Of course, everything there could be replaced...Marker Drones, different weapons for the suits, etc.

What do you think?

Well firstly use missile drones rather than gun drones, the only real advantage of a gun drone is the twin-linked which isn't that great when already BS5.

Other than that, it looks viable although you may end up wanting the suits in one place, the drones in another and also wanting the drones protecting the suits... which is a bit difficult. But it could work, I guess.

The drone controller does not work for missile drones and the FAQ removed the ability for Crisis suits to even take missile drones.

Only Broadsides can spam missiles on their missiles.

davou wrote:
What about farsight plus bodyguards (each with fusion, splitfire and shield gen) combined with a space marine librarian who has gate?

You get a ton of fusion guns who can split fire, ability to deepstrike every turn and not scatter, and a JSJ to reposition after you've laid down your damage. You can forgo one of the suits to take the ignores cover/twinlink shenanigans and a drone controller too

For what it's worth, that doesn't work. Gate uses the deep strike rules, but it's not actually a deep strike. For the same reason you can't use the Necron Deathmarks ability every time you jump with an attached Cryptek.

Not going to turn this into a rules discussion, just wanted to point it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anbutou wrote:
So I just got my actual book in, and my word, this is pretty much everything I was worried about. Complete destruction of what tiny little bit was good about the Hammerhead, removal of other availability of str10/ap1 weapons, so enjoy getting squashed by guys who bring out the heavy armor as soon as they see you're playing Tau.

Removal of any ballistic skill modifying items, ensuring that you're forced to pour points into markerlight systems just to get back what you had before the book dropped. That was the reason I took Crisis Bodyguard squads. So I had access to the Shas'vre item list as well as the 3 pieces... So much for that idea. Markerlights themselves saw a nice buff, 2 successful hits == removal of an ADL, which is great, but really now, what army other than Tau is going to rely on an ADL to out-shoot us? Especially now? They'll just change deployment so they can get us in close combat.

Overwatching at BS2 instead of BS1 is nice, but I mean, that's it? for a support slot? Eeehhh... Then you've got the fact that the broadsides lose all their support abilities which anyone ever fielded them would still probably use - TA or ASS. I guess now Drone Controller on one so everything's BS3.... and a couple of multi-trackers so you can fire your SMS too?

I mean really, this codex did add a LOT of options, but it's all top-heavy. Sniper Drones got a huge boost, and HQ choices became varied and important. That's pretty much it. So in their haste to ensure there's a variance in the Tau lists, they basically ensured that variance will be the exact same in every list. You'll see varied HQ selections, and Markerlights.

I don't mind changes to the system here, but the simplest part of this is that it just feels like they weakened all the "FOTM" units, and left everything else pretty much the same. All in all I'm rather disappointed. I guess someone's GK or Necron army got beaten that one time by an unexpected Tau list, and they ensured that we'd have extremely vulnerable weak points to take advantage of so that would never happen again.

I sincerely hope this opinion spreads. Is this what the general consensus on Tau is?

Lanlaorn wrote:
The drone controller does not work for missile drones and the FAQ removed the ability for Crisis suits to even take missile drones.

Only Broadsides can spam missiles on their missiles.

They've already got an FAQ out? Worse, they're already going against what's clearly written in the codex? Darn...