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okay i take it back actually my bag, sorry gw

This is the fifth ed gray knights of sixth. They are amazing.

My flyers are already crying great big tears of sadness.

A big thing I'm disappointed with is that there is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
A big thing I'm disappointed with is that there is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

Oh yeah and daemons shouldn't? Lets all give them counterattack as well....wait they get that with ethereals.....

And fnp on crisis suits. Wait they have that too.

 sfshilo wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
A big thing I'm disappointed with is that there is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

Oh yeah and daemons shouldn't? Lets all give them counterattack as well....wait they get that with ethereals.....

And fnp on crisis suits. Wait they have that too.

I agree that all Daemons of Khorne should have Adamantium Will standard.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
A big thing I'm disappointed with is that there is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

That doesn't make them resistant to the Warp, it just means they aren't as tasty to daemons and are unable to become Pskyers. Cats probably don't have much of a Warp presence but they're not going to be more resistant to psychic powers than a human would.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Vetock wrote the book like if it was Imperial Codex with Markerlights. "If Imperial tanks can't move & fire, then it's too confusing if Tau tanks can".

To be fair, tanks are not the books strong point in general. That said, on the tanks it realistically matters on, they got cheaper and more effective otherwise. Hammerheads with submuntions are silly cheap, Skyrays are significantly more effective,

Sky Rays suck against non-Air threats, even more than before, and it doesn't matter how "cheap" Hammerheads are, since their abilities suck compared to what they were in the old book, even under 6th Ed rules, much less under 4th Ed where they were designed for.

 Vaktathi wrote:

and almost all of their upgrade costs went down except for disruption pods which were criminally undercosted for their 5E retconned abilities. Only the Devilfish I feel got treated unfairly, but again, tanks are not the strong point of the book, nor any book recently, GW seems to want to really discourage people from buying and using vehicles recently. Suits and markerlights are where it's at, which are unique to the Tau Empire, unlike battletanks.

Yes, obviously if tanks are not that great under 6th ed basic rules, answer to that is to take away what little advantages they had before and make them even suckier. -<sarcasm. And really, I don't care what suits and Markerlights gain, I didn't start to play Tau because of them.

Biggest travesty of the whole debacle is that what the Tau players would have lost, if the tanks were kept as they were under the old Codex?

NOTHING! Tau players who loved suits, Fire warriors and Markerlights would have lost NOTHING even if the tanks had kept their old abilities which kept them playable, and unique to Tau. If they didn't care for tanks, they didn't have to play them! So what the heck was the raison d'etre to nerf them to uselessness in the first place? None what I can see.>

I have yet to play a game but from what i see it breaks from the old but it does seem to be more in line with fluff in reliance on each other. Like i said i have yet to play a game so dont tear into me to hard if this proves to be untrue. though it does seem like they did change it from the last one. im optimistic about, and if im right on the fluff aspect im happy (i prefer a more fluff based approach then an obliterate everyone). over all im looking forwards to playing with it.

Backfire wrote:
Sky Rays suck against non-Air threats, even more than before, and it doesn't matter how "cheap" Hammerheads are, since their abilities suck compared to what they were in the old book, even under 6th Ed rules, much less under 4th Ed where they were designed for.

Actually, the Sky Ray got a lot better since you can fire seeker missiles without a markerlight. For a tiny price tag you get 6x krak missiles at BS 4, BS 5 if you spend a markerlight hit to increase your BS. Sure, it's a one-shot weapon, but once you deduct the price of the missiles you're left with a really cheap pair of BS 4 markerlights.

What are you talking about hating on tau vehicles????

You can take twin linked over watch disruption pod vehicles!

That is a hammerhead with a rail gun, two gun drones that can twin link overwatch, with stealth on a vehicle that can jump over Terrain. For less then 200 points, three Hp and av13.

You sir are on something.

The only sucky vehicle is the pirhana as it is a glorified landspeeder.

 sfshilo wrote:
What are you talking about hating on tau vehicles????

Because they're worse than in the previous codex, for no good reason.

You can take twin linked over watch disruption pod vehicles!

Who cares about a few more random STR 5 overwatch shots when every unit in the army can provide the same supporting overwatch with better guns?

That is a hammerhead with a rail gun

Rail guns can't overwatch.

with stealth

Which used to be shrouded, and before that was a 4+ save when hardly anyone else could get cover on vehicles.

on a vehicle that can jump over Terrain.

Too bad you can't move at all if you want to shoot all of your guns, and can't move more than 6" if you want to shoot your main gun. Being a skimmer was awesome when you could move 12" and shoot the railgun, now it's pointless.

 sfshilo wrote:


The only sucky vehicle is the pirhana as it is a glorified landspeeder.

Actually, Burst cannon Piranha seems like only semi-usable vehicle in the Codex. It has decent firepower now for the cost and Gun drones don't suck anymore. Take one or two, move them up the flanks and start annoying the enemy with S5 harassing fire. Detach the Drones, and make enemy decide to either waste a turn of shooting to kill them, or ignore them and take damage. Not great, but usable.

Backfire wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:


The only sucky vehicle is the pirhana as it is a glorified landspeeder.

Actually, Burst cannon Piranha seems like only semi-usable vehicle in the Codex. It has decent firepower now for the cost and Gun drones don't suck anymore. Take one or two, move them up the flanks and start annoying the enemy with S5 harassing fire. Detach the Drones, and make enemy decide to either waste a turn of shooting to kill them, or ignore them and take damage. Not great, but usable.

Agreed.

Is the devilfish still slightly usable or is it god aweful now?

Shinzra wrote:
So today is the day, codex has been released and I have had a brief look over it. I really like what I have read and seen so far some great equipment and variety for lists. I am very much into aunva dirt cheap for what she can bring in terms of army buffs. So fellow tau players or 40k players. What's your opinion on the new Dex and what do you like?

9.5/10. Excellent internal balance, excellent-looking external balance (though it's a little early to tell), excellent fluff. Literally every unit in the book seems to have a potential use and I think there will be a wide range of interesting builds. The only thing that makes the release not a 10 is that they didn't redo the aging Crisis suit kit. A new kit with options for some of the special issue items would have been great. This is my favorite of the 6th edition Codexes by far, and that says a lot.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Is the devilfish still slightly usable or is it god aweful now?

It's almost exactly the same it was before. It lost Targeting array, but guns have bit more shots than before and the cost is pretty much same. However if you liked maxed out Warfish configuration, then the new 'Fish is probably bit worse.

Backfire wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Is the devilfish still slightly usable or is it god aweful now?

It's almost exactly the same it was before. It lost Targeting array, but guns have bit more shots than before and the cost is pretty much same. However if you liked maxed out Warfish configuration, then the new 'Fish is probably bit worse.

I understand where you are coming from as I have 5000 points of Tau. Been playing them since 2003 and was seriously involved with the Eye of Terror, and the Damicles Campaigns. I was also heavily involved with Tau Online before it imploded on itself.

I bought the book and to me there was something wrong with it. The feeling that this was a rushed job to shoe horned it into 6th ED. Not going to repost all on what I said in another topic, but I can say that they will make great allies and for casual games it could be fun. I won't take a stand alone Tau army into competitive play. I've got too many other armies that are better in doing that than this current codex.

People are going to buy what they feel the hype is going to be. I did not buy into the hype of the Necron flyer armies as I knew it will be taken care of with every new codex being put out. There will be the same ooohs and ahhhs in this new codex as with the Necrons and if they want to spend their money it is us for not to tell them to not too. This codex will get similar adjustments like all previous codex's before it.

Why all the pessimism? 2 pages of a thread and nearly all doom and wailing. Look a little harder. Dig a little deeper. It always seems that when a new dex comes out, people have a tendency to only see what got weaker and not notice what got better. Take deep breath and relax, the sun will come up tomorrow. Hey, at least your not Nids which got the biggest nerf of them all moving to the 6th. Still, those that stuck with it are finding ways to make them work. They may not be the most competitive army on the block (talking 'bout Nids), but they are reasonable. Let's get some play testing in and find out those dex gems that we aren't seeing yet.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Davor wrote:


Not a knock on you, but I keep reading a lot of comments like this. So I am thinking, is the Tau really made to be played as Tau or are they made to be played as allies?

Rejoice! Tau are the new IG.

So Tau are the new black?

Overall, not impressed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers. We've just traded one mono-build codex for a different mono-build codex: battlesuit spam with tons of markerlights is going to be incredibly powerful, but everything else is pretty disappointing (and in some cases worse than the previous codex). So it's simultaneously a powerful codex and an un-fluffy one (BS 3 crisis suits? Are you kidding?), the worst possible combination.

 Peregrine wrote:
Overall, not impressed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers. We've just traded one mono-build codex for a different mono-build codex: battlesuit spam with tons of markerlights is going to be incredibly powerful, but everything else is pretty disappointing (and in some cases worse than the previous codex). So it's simultaneously a powerful codex and an un-fluffy one (BS 3 crisis suits? Are you kidding?), the worst possible combination.

In fact, Tau first needs to mark the targets and then to shoot them with increased BS. This is certainly a drawback of the new Tau shooting. A cc oriented army could make use of this if it rushes forward in 1st turn.
The Riptide seems rather scary as the Dreadknight is. I remember that some armies have a hard time to remove a DK from far, others don't like DE with poisoned weapons.

Love the combinations you can potentially pull off. A etheral + fireblade would be 4 shots for a fire warrior unit (within certain ranges).

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Overall, not impressed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers. We've just traded one mono-build codex for a different mono-build codex: battlesuit spam with tons of markerlights is going to be incredibly powerful, but everything else is pretty disappointing (and in some cases worse than the previous codex). So it's simultaneously a powerful codex and an un-fluffy one (BS 3 crisis suits? Are you kidding?), the worst possible combination.

In fact, Tau first needs to mark the targets and then to shoot them with increased BS. This is certainly a drawback of the new Tau shooting. A cc oriented army could make use of this if it rushes forward in 1st turn.

I don't see how unless you're playing on a smaller than standard board. No army posesses the ability to assault turn 1, due to deployment zones being 24" apart and infiltrators being restricted from declaring a charge on turn 1.

This gives Tau an even better chance to kill said assault army, simply because said assault army will not be in cover due to setting themselves up for a turn 2 charge. This gives Tau ample opportunity to set up supporting overwatch zones with increases to snapshot accuracy and pump out a lot of more accurate pulse rifle fire before receiving the charge. From my browse through the codex, I'm sure I also saw an ability that lets a unit fall back D6" after overwatch fire, which also lets them set up some great bait units.

Trying to get a turn 2 charge on a Tau army with an assault army is a pretty bad idea now.

mattblowers wrote:
Why all the pessimism? 2 pages of a thread and nearly all doom and wailing. Look a little harder. Dig a little deeper. It always seems that when a new dex comes out, people have a tendency to only see what got weaker and not notice what got better. Take deep breath and relax, the sun will come up tomorrow. Hey, at least your not Nids which got the biggest nerf of them all moving to the 6th. Still, those that stuck with it are finding ways to make them work. They may not be the most competitive army on the block (talking 'bout Nids), but they are reasonable. Let's get some play testing in and find out those dex gems that we aren't seeing yet.

Tau are the new Nids: old staple units & playstyles nerfed to uselessness, but big shiny new monster flies along to rescue. Sound familiar?

 -Loki- wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Overall, not impressed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers. We've just traded one mono-build codex for a different mono-build codex: battlesuit spam with tons of markerlights is going to be incredibly powerful, but everything else is pretty disappointing (and in some cases worse than the previous codex). So it's simultaneously a powerful codex and an un-fluffy one (BS 3 crisis suits? Are you kidding?), the worst possible combination.

In fact, Tau first needs to mark the targets and then to shoot them with increased BS. This is certainly a drawback of the new Tau shooting. A cc oriented army could make use of this if it rushes forward in 1st turn.

I don't see how unless you're playing on a smaller than standard board. No army posesses the ability to assault turn 1, due to deployment zones being 24" apart and infiltrators being restricted from declaring a charge on turn 1.

This gives Tau an even better chance to kill said assault army, simply because said assault army will not be in cover due to setting themselves up for a turn 2 charge. This gives Tau ample opportunity to set up supporting overwatch zones with increases to snapshot accuracy and pump out a lot of more accurate pulse rifle fire before receiving the charge. From my browse through the codex, I'm sure I also saw an ability that lets a unit fall back D6" after overwatch fire, which also lets them set up some great bait units.

Trying to get a turn 2 charge on a Tau army with an assault army is a pretty bad idea now.

With an assault army you'll have no other chance as to charge as soon as possible. Otherwise, it will be decimated too much.

Excellent book. Good fluff, interesting units with abilities that are actually useful, plenty of potential lists. If anything I find myself stuck trying to work out Crisis squads due to the amount of options. Only thing that really sticks out as something I dislike is the lack of Steath, Infilitrators or both onPathfinders, especially since the new kit was so heavily promoted (not to mention, of course, the disappointment of having our Missile Drones severely restricted on day one ).

That's something else I want to add - Pathfinders and the Fireblade are the only new kits I've bought, but they're excellent. The Fireblade is a characterful fellow and I can't fault the level of detail. The Pathfinder sprues are loaded with stuff with a ridiculous amount of conversion potential and you actually get enough ion and rail rifles to max either out in a squad!

 wuestenfux wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Overall, not impressed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers. We've just traded one mono-build codex for a different mono-build codex: battlesuit spam with tons of markerlights is going to be incredibly powerful, but everything else is pretty disappointing (and in some cases worse than the previous codex). So it's simultaneously a powerful codex and an un-fluffy one (BS 3 crisis suits? Are you kidding?), the worst possible combination.

In fact, Tau first needs to mark the targets and then to shoot them with increased BS. This is certainly a drawback of the new Tau shooting. A cc oriented army could make use of this if it rushes forward in 1st turn.

I don't see how unless you're playing on a smaller than standard board. No army posesses the ability to assault turn 1, due to deployment zones being 24" apart and infiltrators being restricted from declaring a charge on turn 1.

This gives Tau an even better chance to kill said assault army, simply because said assault army will not be in cover due to setting themselves up for a turn 2 charge. This gives Tau ample opportunity to set up supporting overwatch zones with increases to snapshot accuracy and pump out a lot of more accurate pulse rifle fire before receiving the charge. From my browse through the codex, I'm sure I also saw an ability that lets a unit fall back D6" after overwatch fire, which also lets them set up some great bait units.

Trying to get a turn 2 charge on a Tau army with an assault army is a pretty bad idea now.

With an assault army you'll have no other chance as to charge as soon as possible. Otherwise, it will be decimated too much.

Well sure, if you're playing on a table with no terrain.

Any decent table has terrain higher than a shrub, so hiding assault troops as they make their way up the board isn't difficult. You won't make it there unscathed, but you don't have to. With the stats Tau have, even a depleted unit of Boyz or Gaunts is going to shred them in assault. Take your time, use cover, use support weapons to disrupt the line and assault when it's beneficial.

I can already see Biovores becoming must-takes against Tau for Tyranid players. Such cheap S4, AP4 barrage ability will be amazing at breaking up Firewarrior lines.

Loving it - already written my battlescribe catalogue for it (find it helps me imbibe a codex) and can already see some great combinations and strong anti-assault lists

I'd post my battlescribe catalogue but I don't know how forum rules go with that sort of thing

I just got my Tau army that I ordered off ebay, looks great and reading my book can not wait to get some games in.