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Okay, so my current list goes like this:

HQ:
Farseer
Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide, 125pts

Troops:
Dire Avengers x10
Exarch +Shimmershield+Bladestorm, 162pts

Pathfinders x5, 120pts

Elites:
Fire Dragons x5, 80pts

Transport:
Wave Serpent, 90pts

So That's given me 23 points spare. The problem being, in my local store people never seem to place terrain correctly , and even with the 4+ save of the dire avengers with the re-roll I still take way too many losses with my dire avengers against guardsmen squads, plus, I really need to be more versatile when it comes to taking out vehicles, including flyers.
Thanks for any advice.

Farseer - 188pts
Jetbike, Spear, Witnessing, Ward, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide

3x Jetbikes - 119pts
Warlock, Embolden, Spear

3x Jetbikes - 76pts
Shurikin Cannon

3x Jetbikes - 76pts
Shurikin Cannon

3x War Walkers - 135pts
Scatter Lasers

594pts

Use your Mini-deathstar of the Farseer+Warlock Jetbike squad to zoom up and blast armor with their spears, keeping Fortune on them constantly. Use Guide on the Walkers if they are within range, otherwise just Guide themselves. Remember that Embolden allows a re-roll for any Ld test...so if you totally fail on the Stone of Witnessing roll, you can re-roll it. If you feel brazen, you can always drop the Witnessing and add a Shuri Cannon to that squad...but I like the 3 plain jane bikes for taking wounds. Use the walkers to kill Infantry and Flyers. Remember to give the walkers a cover save, they have to have 25% of LoS blocked... and you kinda need this to keep them alive. Otherwise Outflank them or use their range to keep out of Plasma/Melta gun reach.

I'd use the same list BlkTom posted, but swap the Wraithlord for a Fire Prism with a chin cannon. The large blast will help with the infantry you're up against and the small blast is very effective against vehicles now. Better with 2 prisms, but that would be the next step if you go up to 1k.

Instead of three squads of bikes, I'd use two, a large squad with the 'lock and 2 cannons that the seer would fortune and guide, and the second smaller squad of three. Also, I find that Witnessing Runes are a very nice investment for seers.

Sorry Gavin, changed my list with a better one... the list your talking about he will not see.

Alright, so my list would go along these lines:

Farseer
- Jetbike, Stones, both Runes, Fortune, Guide

Jetbikes x6
- Warlock, Embolden, 2 Cannons

Jetbikes x3
- Cannon

Fire Prism

Comes in at 595. You could give the warlock or the farseer a Singing Spear, but since you lose the extra attack in close combat and they've gotten gimped with S3 Armorbane, I don't find them worth it. The farseer goes in the larger squad of bikes, using Fortune and Guide on them for that re-rollable 3+/5++ and to give the cannons a better chance of scoring hits.

Keep the jetbikes moving, hide them behind LOS-blocking cover, moving out the cannons to take shots and moving them back behind the cover during your Assault move. NEVER forget that assault move! Once you've whittled a squad down a bit, move the big squad in to finish them off with volume of fire. Remember that harder (MEQ) targets are only going down as a result of attrition fire, so focus everything you've got on one squad until it's gone before moving on to the next.

Use the Prism to take on opportunity targets and keep it moving too, for the jink save and to keep it out of range of bigger guns. As I mentioned above, the large blast will help vs. infantry squads and the smaller blast vs. vehicles. The one thing you don't have here is reliable anti-flyer, but at this point range most fliers will leave your opponent without much else. Your cannon bikers might be able to score a hit or two on one, but it's not likely to do much. My advice would be to focus on eliminating scoring units or small squads.

Your not going to see Fliers at all in 600...they are like what 200 points or 150? Your original list is fine as it is just giving the DA's Defend would make it complete.

He mentioned playing IG, and a Vendetta is 130pts, a Valkyrie is 100pts bare bones. It is very easy for IG to have a LRBT at 150pts and a pair of Flyers at 200-260pts and still have plenty of points for a CCS and two platoons.

Personally, I would run a small unit or scorpions with chainsabres or a biting blade-Makes a mess of rearguard units such as Guard HWT and Marine 5 man squads. It really works wonders.

I think bikes and farseers on bikes will be your best bet. You need to focus on mobility and s6- because you do not have the points to make foot based eldar viable. Of course MC spam can be fun too.

If you are worried about fliers, clear up 212 points for a dragon exarch with both powers behind a quad gun.

Not withstanding I would recommend something like this:


[133] farseer- both runes, jetbike, spear, guide
[134] 3 guardian bikes + warlock- cannon, spear, destructor
[127] 10 storm gu + warlock- 2 flamers, destructor
[125] wave serpent- tl scatter laser, shuriken cannon
[40] war walker- 2 shuri cannons
[40] war walker- 2 shuri cannons

That gives you a few destructor templates which can be used to clear off objectives or isolated infantry, and you still.have tons of s6 for sustained fire. You will have trouble with vendettas- but so will everybody lol. Remember that most heavy armour you see will be vulnerable from the sides and rear, so flank and blast away with scatter and shuri cannons!

Thanks for all the input guys! Right, so I understand how good Eldar jetbikes are but it's going to be really difficult to build an army of them as I'm running 40k in general on a tight budget and £8.00 for a single troop just doesn't sound worth it to me.. I do quite like the idea of striking scorpions, and the ability to infiltrate them sounds extremely cool, especially against squishy guardsmen, who probably won't risk getting into combat with scorpions. Additionally, the ability to infiltrate gets rid of having to slog across the board, negating the risk of having to absorb 3 turns of shooting from about 4 different guard units, which, with fortune, the Dire Avengers aren't horrible at doing, but they do take way too many losses to be effective in the later turns of the game. So, based on the fact that I just don't have enough money to get jetbikes in the masses, what do you guys think now?
Oh, and yes, the Guard player frequently fields flyers.

Hmmm wonder if I can help, I have been playing in a low-point campaign and don't own any jetbikes yet (I refuse to buy what is now a more than 20-year old sculpt when we're on the verge of a new codex and models...)

At this point level you're probably best off going with generalist units; something like a WS with 5 Fire Dragons is unlikely make a difference, in the unusual circumstance that you face something av13+ that you need to deal with it'll be more than able to blow the transport into tiny pieces before you get them into position..

I'd go with:

Guideseer with RoW
5xDA
in Serpent with TL SLs and chin SC
5x Rangers
3x Warwalkers (6x scatterlasers)

Gives you a ton of 36" range s6 shooting, sure you'll get hard-countered by some things, but you'll have a damn good shot at torrenting them to death before they get you! I think theres some extra points left over, go with Pathfinders upgrade or Star Engines (for last minute linebreaker with the DA Serpent).

Hope that helps!

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Hmmm wonder if I can help, I have been playing in a low-point campaign and don't own any jetbikes yet (I refuse to buy what is now a more than 20-year old sculpt when we're on the verge of a new codex and models...)#
I'd go with:

Guideseer with RoW
5xDA
in Serpent with TL SLs and chin SC
5x Rangers
3x Warwalkers (6x scatterlasers)

I think theres some extra points left over, go with Pathfinders upgrade or Star Engines (for last minute linebreaker with the DA Serpent).

Hmm.. This sounds pretty solid, though my experiences using both pathfinders and rangers aren't so great.. the 50/50 chance to wound sucks really bad, especially on the AP1 shots that you can allocate when you roll a 6. Who knows, maybe that could work though.
Additionally, I think I'd gravitate slightly more towards wraithlords just because of S10 T8, though I do understand that you can only do a third of the shooting that a unit of 3 warwalkers are capable of. Is the S10 T8 of the wraithlord worth the compromise?

 SpartanHedgey wrote:

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
Hmmm wonder if I can help, I have been playing in a low-point campaign and don't own any jetbikes yet (I refuse to buy what is now a more than 20-year old sculpt when we're on the verge of a new codex and models...)#
I'd go with:

Guideseer with RoW
5xDA
in Serpent with TL SLs and chin SC
5x Rangers
3x Warwalkers (6x scatterlasers)

I think theres some extra points left over, go with Pathfinders upgrade or Star Engines (for last minute linebreaker with the DA Serpent).

Hmm.. This sounds pretty solid, though my experiences using both pathfinders and rangers aren't so great.. the 50/50 chance to wound sucks really bad, especially on the AP1 shots that you can allocate when you roll a 6. Who knows, maybe that could work though.

Make it a doomseer and you will watch people learn to hate your pathfinders...

The other thing is more of a commitment but it solves the anti-tank problem.

2x Farseer w guide
2x 5 Man Dire Avengers
2x Falcons with the best long ranged weapon you can afford--- BL, EML, starcannon, scatter laser...

The seers guide the falcons who dance at maximum range... 75% chance to hit with 3 S8 weapons... tanks won't survive and infantry won't like you much either. If you stay beyond 24" range, you are going to sweat at most 3 to 6 enemy attacks.....

So 6 S8+ attacks, 4 hit, 2 glance or pen and 1+ manages to get past your jink save... Add a fortune and less than 1 hits...
1 hit vs 4.5 hits per turn... low damage output for you and opponent... The only thing is when to move aggressively and dismount to claim objectives...

try this:
Prince Yriel

10 dire avengers (bladestorm and two shuriken exarch)
10 dire avengers (bladestorm and two shuriken exarch)

and then either a fire prism, or as many war walkers as you can jam in, loaded out for anti vehicular.

Yriel and the avengers can mow down enemy infantry and your prism/walkers can gank tanks. the main thing is to work on not being set up disadvantageously. dont let your opponents come to you, take the fight to them. prioritize and avoid getting caught out by large guard squads and the like.

OK.

Striking Scorpions are a bad idea. The won't let you afford acceptable troops, and they will probably LOSE in combat with a 20 man power blob. Especially when they eat a FRFSRF and overwatch (probably featuring 2 flamers) before they get in cc

So jetbikes are out of the question. What about Storm Guardians? They offer you a decent amount of bodies, and they can take 2 fusion guns to help with anti heavy tank that you cannot handle with s6.

[93] Farseer- Warding, Spear, Guide
[217] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Fusion Guns : Wave Serpent- tl scatter laser, shuriken cannon
[207] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Flamers : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser,
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons

Trade Guide for Prescience, fusion guns and the spear gives you anti heavy tank, and you still have enough s6 for sustained anti infantry and anti light vehicle. Flamer Guardians can clear objectives in cover or isolated enemy hordes.

If you are feeling bold, you can swap the second storm guardian squad down to 5 bare Dire Avengers, add a Shuriken Cannon to the Wave Serpent, drop Warding, and squeeze in another Shuri Walker for more s6 loving! You lose out on s6, but with 10 different s6 heavy guns on 5 different units which can move and shoot, and tl melta... That is a lot of fire power... Warding is great, do not get me wrong. But it will only be useful against several opponents. More s6 will be useful vs pretty much everything.

[78] Farseer- Spear, Guide
[217] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Fusion Guns : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
[185] 5 Dire Avengers : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons

 akaean wrote:
OK. Striking Scorpions are a bad idea. The won't let you afford acceptable troops, and they will probably LOSE in combat with a 20 man power blob. Especially when they eat a FRFSRF and overwatch (probably featuring 2 flamers) before they get in cc
So jetbikes are out of the question. What about Storm Guardians? They offer you a decent amount of bodies, and they can take 2 fusion guns to help with anti heavy tank that you cannot handle with s6.

[93] Farseer- Warding, Spear, Guide
[217] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Fusion Guns : Wave Serpent- tl scatter laser, shuriken cannon
[207] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Flamers : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser,
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
Trade Guide for Prescience, fusion guns and the spear gives you anti heavy tank, and you still have enough s6 for sustained anti infantry and anti light vehicle. Flamer Guardians can clear objectives in cover or isolated enemy hordes.
If you are feeling bold, you can swap the second storm guardian squad down to 5 bare Dire Avengers, add a Shuriken Cannon to the Wave Serpent, drop Warding, and squeeze in another Shuri Walker for more s6 loving! You lose out on s6, but with 10 different s6 heavy guns on 5 different units which can move and shoot, and tl melta... That is a lot of fire power... Warding is great, do not get me wrong. But it will only be useful against several opponents. More s6 will be useful vs pretty much everything.
[78] Farseer- Spear, Guide
[217] 10 Storm Guardians- 2 Fusion Guns : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
[185] 5 Dire Avengers : Wave Serpent- tl Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons
[40] War Walker- 2 Shuriken Cannons

I'm not sure, scorpions do have a nice 3+ armour which is pretty unusual with Eldar, plus, the initial idea was that I could infiltrate them if I had the first turn, so we're talking a 12" distance from the enemy when outside of LOS, and an 18" distance from the enemy when they have LOS. So, I could deploy them within 12" of a squishy guard squad (or MEQ, perhaps), move 6" towards them, shoot, and then only require 6" to charge. Plus, the exarch with the biting blade is a pretty nice thing to have, especially versus vehicles.
The storm guardian idea does sound pretty fun, and I've never even heard of anybody fielding them locally.. that could be interesting. But it seems everyone is sticking with more long-ranged combat.
Additionally, nobody seems to be mentioning fire dragons here. I always thought that fire dragons in a wave serpent would work really well?

As I said, Scorpions really depend on how you use them. I found infiltrating a unit of 6 with an Exarch with chainsabres works wonders against 20-man blobs. You drop about 4 from shooting, plus some avanger fire, so about 12 dead or so (not exact). On average, you will take about 3 lasrounds and 4 flamer hits-about 3 wounds (assuming they don't die to shooting) which your armour should protect you from. In return, you should be able to kill of the guard before they strike back. The thing is that you would need to infiltrate them well-Have them behind solid walls etc so your opponent has no LOS, then work your way towards him for a turn 2 charge.

Also, have you considered using D-Cannon teams? The AP2 Blast (which wounds on 2s) coupled with the better Anti-Vehicle rules for glances means you can pop a 'Raider in a turn or two, plus they are barrage you can choose who to kill (from the centre of the template). Another option would be Dark Reapers, with their AP3 anti MEQ guns-makes a mess of CSM and SM armies. Also gives you some fire support and more blasts if you take an Exarch with a Tempest Launcher.

EDIT: Fire Dragons are good, except they take fire from EVERYTHING, and a 4+ save isn't very good vs MEQS.

 SpartanHedgey wrote:

I'm not sure, scorpions do have a nice 3+ armour which is pretty unusual with Eldar, plus, the initial idea was that I could infiltrate them if I had the first turn, so we're talking a 12" distance from the enemy when outside of LOS, and an 18" distance from the enemy when they have LOS. So, I could deploy them within 12" of a squishy guard squad (or MEQ, perhaps), move 6" towards them, shoot, and then only require 6" to charge. Plus, the exarch with the biting blade is a pretty nice thing to have, especially versus vehicles.
The storm guardian idea does sound pretty fun, and I've never even heard of anybody fielding them locally.. that could be interesting. But it seems everyone is sticking with more long-ranged combat.
Additionally, nobody seems to be mentioning fire dragons here. I always thought that fire dragons in a wave serpent would work really well?

Fire Dragons are excellent. The problem is that Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent are going to eat up at least 200 of your points. in a 600 point match you cannot afford it. I start bringing fire dragons at 750, 600 is just a bit too small to squeeze the squad in. You are better off cramming every point you aren't spending on troops into 40 point War Walkers with 2 Shuriken Cannons. That will get you the most nfire power your points can buy which is what you need to win!

Here is the problem with striking scorpions. You keep saying squishy guard squad... you mean like...
(105) PCS- 4 Flamers : Chimera- Hull Heavy Flamer
(120) PIS- Commissar, 2 Power Axes, Auto Cannon, Flamer
(75) PIS- Power Axe, Auto Cannon, Flamer

So lets say you infiltrate 18 inches away from this "squishy guard troop choice". With about 6-7 guys with their 3+ save. So. Do you plan on living through the chimera scooting up and hitting you with 4 flamers and a heavy flamer, or the 30-50 las gun shots from FRFSRF, 4 AC shots, and 2 more flamers from the platoon infantry squads?
Lets say you are lucky, and manage a charge with 5 guys. If you charge the blob, you get 2d3 overwatch hits from the flamers at least, and 9 s4 ap2 power axe attacks, reduced to 6 if you challenge.
Lets say you survive, well now they are still stubborn ld8 with a re-roll.
You see the problem? Scorpions are still only t3, and a guard blob squad will grind them out in cc. If you face mech you will just eat a bunch of flamers to the face, and hope to roll enough 6s to break the chimera.

I haven't even mentioned what the Company Command Squad with 4 Plas in a Chim will do.

Remember you can only charge after infiltrate if you have 2nd turn. And its hard to hide out of LoS of 20+ guard. When I play my guard I love it when my foes infiltrate, it means I can kill them piecemeal, as I throw all my short ranged fire power into the scary t3 cc unit deployed all by itself in my deployment zone. You need to come at him all at once for success.

I am surprised nobody thought to add the very affordable and powerful wraithlord to this list.Not only is he damn near unkillable at 600 points but he is a CC king and bristling with weapons.
Farseer,runes of warding,fortune,spear-103
3x Warlocks,,spirit seer,Embolden,2x Destructor-106
5x Dire Avengers-60
5x Dire Avengers-60
Wraithlord,scatter laser,EML,flamers-135
Wraithlord,scatter laser,EML,flamers-135
599

akaean wrote:
Fire Dragons are excellent. The problem is that Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent are going to eat up at least 200 of your points.
Here is the problem with striking scorpions. You keep saying squishy guard squad... you mean like...
(105) PCS- 4 Flamers : Chimera- Hull Heavy Flamer
(120) PIS- Commissar, 2 Power Axes, Auto Cannon, Flamer
(75) PIS- Power Axe, Auto Cannon, Flamer

Yeah, I guess both of the things that you said are true. In addition, I forgot you can't assault after infiltrating.

danielbonke wrote:I am surprised nobody thought to add the very affordable and powerful wraithlord to this list.Not only is he damn near unkillable at 600 points but he is a CC king and bristling with weapons.
Farseer,runes of warding,fortune,spear-103
3x Warlocks,,spirit seer,Embolden,2x Destructor-106
5x Dire Avengers-60
5x Dire Avengers-60
Wraithlord,scatter laser,EML,flamers-135
Wraithlord,scatter laser,EML,flamers-135
599

Though this list is cool, 5 man DA units just don't sound viable to me. It just seems like you're essentially giving the enemy a free victory point, as only 5 of them with no invulnerables just aren't survivable, even with fortune, as the farseer can obviously on cast on one of the units a turn. Unless perhaps it would be a case of moving up the warlocks and DA's, including the spiritseer, behind the Wraithlords, with the farseer casting fortune where it may be needed?

Spam str 6

Guideseer
Guardians with scatter
Guardians with scatter
Guardians with scatter

2 walkers with scatters
2 walkers with scatters

Be decimated in combat but 28 str 6 shots a turn is decent enough vs most targets

Yeah, your options are really coming down to making a Eldar foot gunline list. Your just playing at too low of a point level to make your elites useful. DA have no range, Snipers are to expensive for to few bodies, storm guardians need a lot of support and are walking into the hands of a IG gunline. Guardians with platforms are your only real option, then war walkers or wraithlords. Your other advantage is having better psykers. We are focusing a lot on IG when we also have to keep in mine Marines and other lists. You play a Ork or Nid player, can you kill enough stuff before you get assaulted? Yeah, IG is showing why they are a nasty codex because they are just as effective at low point levels as they are at higher point levels... they just get more.

Eldrad - 210pts

Guardians - 105pts
Star Cannon

Guardians - 100pts
EML

Guardians - 100pts
EML

ADL - 85pts
Icarus LC

600pts

Have Eldrad attach to a EML squad and have him man the gun. If he uses the Intercept rule, only he fires on the flyer and on your turn the rest of the squad can fire at whatever. He can now double guide if your facing armor, give double Fortune for cover saves, and can take snap shots with the Icarus LC because he can. You will have something to deal with a lot of infantry and hoards, you have your high str for vehicles, and you have your flyers covered with a BS 5, Str 9, AP 2 shot that covers the entire board. incase someone suprises you with 2+ armor, you have the Star Cannon. Yes, Eldrad is expensive, but he is like having two Farseers, and that is hard to beat. A naked Farseer throwing one power a turn is hardly worth it.

At low point totals, and if you have them, I would recommend going pure EJB. Why? All eldar tanks are overpriced and not worth it. What you will have left to put inside will be very underwhelming... Unless you have 9 war walkers with shuriken catapults, there is no vehicle build I would recommend. Food dar come with their own problems - lack of range or morale or both.

Bikes give you the ability of having decent S6 saturation as well as lots of spears on warlocks to provide anti-tank. Keeping your army manuever based, also makes it easy to remember tactics... Shoot and stay out of charge range until it is absolutely necessary....

Now I would go with 2 farseers with fortune, RoWi, WoWa on a Bike with a Spear. Keep them cheap so you can afford 2.
That should run you @ 200 points. Then two 3 bike units (one with a shuriken cannon). That is about 150 points... So you have 250 points left over... Now the easy would be one 6-bike unit (2 with shuriken Cannon) and then an embolden warlock with a spear... That is going to give you 4 bikes with cannons so 12 S 6 shots 11 bikes with 2 S4 TL shots and/or 3 spears...
If you have points left over, you can add a Destructor warlock to one of your 3-man bike units or add a stone and another ability to a farseer. You have anti-tank, mobility and decent firepower... By putting up fortunes on two of your squads, you give the rerollable 3+ saves and everything has Ld 10 or rerollable Ld 8. This is not too bad for 15 bikes that an enemy is going to have a tough time pinning down into HTH combat.

 akaean wrote:

 SpartanHedgey wrote:

I'm not sure, scorpions do have a nice 3+ armour which is pretty unusual with Eldar, plus, the initial idea was that I could infiltrate them if I had the first turn, so we're talking a 12" distance from the enemy when outside of LOS, and an 18" distance from the enemy when they have LOS. So, I could deploy them within 12" of a squishy guard squad (or MEQ, perhaps), move 6" towards them, shoot, and then only require 6" to charge. Plus, the exarch with the biting blade is a pretty nice thing to have, especially versus vehicles.
The storm guardian idea does sound pretty fun, and I've never even heard of anybody fielding them locally.. that could be interesting. But it seems everyone is sticking with more long-ranged combat.
Additionally, nobody seems to be mentioning fire dragons here. I always thought that fire dragons in a wave serpent would work really well?

Fire Dragons are excellent. The problem is that Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent are going to eat up at least 200 of your points. in a 600 point match you cannot afford it. I start bringing fire dragons at 750, 600 is just a bit too small to squeeze the squad in. You are better off cramming every point you aren't spending on troops into 40 point War Walkers with 2 Shuriken Cannons. That will get you the most nfire power your points can buy which is what you need to win!

Here is the problem with striking scorpions. You keep saying squishy guard squad... you mean like...
(105) PCS- 4 Flamers : Chimera- Hull Heavy Flamer
(120) PIS- Commissar, 2 Power Axes, Auto Cannon, Flamer
(75) PIS- Power Axe, Auto Cannon, Flamer

So lets say you infiltrate 18 inches away from this "squishy guard troop choice". With about 6-7 guys with their 3+ save. So. Do you plan on living through the chimera scooting up and hitting you with 4 flamers and a heavy flamer, or the 30-50 las gun shots from FRFSRF, 4 AC shots, and 2 more flamers from the platoon infantry squads?
Lets say you are lucky, and manage a charge with 5 guys. If you charge the blob, you get 2d3 overwatch hits from the flamers at least, and 9 s4 ap2 power axe attacks, reduced to 6 if you challenge.
Lets say you survive, well now they are still stubborn ld8 with a re-roll.
You see the problem? Scorpions are still only t3, and a guard blob squad will grind them out in cc. If you face mech you will just eat a bunch of flamers to the face, and hope to roll enough 6s to break the chimera.

I haven't even mentioned what the Company Command Squad with 4 Plas in a Chim will do.

Remember you can only charge after infiltrate if you have 2nd turn. And its hard to hide out of LoS of 20+ guard. When I play my guard I love it when my foes infiltrate, it means I can kill them piecemeal, as I throw all my short ranged fire power into the scary t3 cc unit deployed all by itself in my deployment zone. You need to come at him all at once for success.

I was just using a squishy guard squad as an example-Most of the people at me FLGS run PIS with autocannon or something...

Wraithlords would be excellent...Or perhaps the Avatar?

SpartanHedgey wrote:Thanks for all the input guys! Right, so I understand how good Eldar jetbikes are but it's going to be really difficult to build an army of them as I'm running 40k in general on a tight budget and £8.00 for a single troop just doesn't sound worth it to me..

DAaddict wrote:At low point totals, and if you have them, I would recommend going pure EJB.

Jet bikes have already been suggested (as the base of the 2nd post of this thread I will point out), they were already shot down as an option as per his quote above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Avatars require melee, so he has to walk across the board through a hail of AC/LC fire... he can survive the AC fire, but that LC fire will be murder on him. He would at least need Fortune to give him a chance to stay alive, and he can not afford a second HQ slot. The Avatar also means, if you want to make the best use of him, Storm Guardians. Not the best option. Your now looking at 300+ points on two HQ and 2x 150pts (or less) for as many Storm Guardians you can get. You have to table to win, and that is really not the Eldar way.

One of the best thing about Wraithlords is that they are characters, they get the precise fire of picking out stuff from a unit to die. The best load-out for a Wraithlord is BL+EML for 155pts. You need that BS 4 to take out armor and the like consistently you can go anti-infantry load-outs, but your boned then for armor and flyers. What kills them is the lack of a Invuln save. Lascannons carve them up pretty easily, because they still wound on a 3+ if they hit. Don't get me wrong, I love wraithlords and run 2-3 in my foot list. But in that list, there are more mportant things for my opponent to fire on. In this list, facing someone like IG... they /are/ the top target. You pray they didn't pack LCs, because if they did, that is what they are firing on.

Farseer - 90pts
Runes of Warding, Guide

Guardians - 100pts
EML

Guardians - 100pts
EML

Wraithlord - 155pts
BL, EML, 2x Flamers

Wraithlord - 155pts
BL, EML, 2x Flamers

600pts

Got nothing against Flyers besides Snap shots. Can Guide 1 unit a turn though and gives you a ton of firepower. Your kind of a glass cannon though, as it will not be to hard to force your guardians to run and a Vendetta is your worse nightmare, as it can kill a Wraithlord a turn. Your best off sitting in cover and hoping.

I definitely Think that Wraithlords are the way to go. maybe not two, but I agree with the EML

Go cheap as you can...
1 Wraithlord with BL/EML should be sufficient.
2 x 5 Dire Avengers 120
1 x Farseer with cheapest spell and runes of warding... Switch it to Divination and take the default Prescience...
65?

So 415 left...

1 BL/EML wraithlord 155
2 Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon wraithlords 230

Now if you have points left you can improve weapons as you like... Star Cannon - more for the 36" range and AP 2. Or switch a shuriken cannon for another bright lance...

2 x S8 attacks + 21 x S6 attacks should cover anything an enemy will throw at you and 3 lords will be a total pain.

DAaddict wrote:
Go cheap as you can...
1 Wraithlord with BL/EML should be sufficient.
2 x 5 Dire Avengers 120
1 x Farseer with cheapest spell and runes of warding... Switch it to Divination and take the default Prescience...
65?

So 415 left...

1 BL/EML wraithlord 155
2 Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon wraithlords 230

Now if you have points left you can improve weapons as you like... Star Cannon - more for the 36" range and AP 2. Or switch a shuriken cannon for another bright lance...

2 x S8 attacks + 21 x S6 attacks should cover anything an enemy will throw at you and 3 lords will be a total pain.

There are some issues with this:

1. 5 man Avenger squads are simply too brittle and die-not every mission focuses on destroying the enemy, some require Troops to capture objectives.
2. You cannot take 4 wraithlords

Otherwise, wraithspam seems pretty good.


EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post. It looks like you said to take four, when you just repeated one wraithlord (hope that makes sense)

 Timmy149 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
Go cheap as you can...
1 Wraithlord with BL/EML should be sufficient.
2 x 5 Dire Avengers 120
1 x Farseer with cheapest spell and runes of warding... Switch it to Divination and take the default Prescience...
65?

So 415 left...

1 BL/EML wraithlord 155
2 Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon wraithlords 230

Now if you have points left you can improve weapons as you like... Star Cannon - more for the 36" range and AP 2. Or switch a shuriken cannon for another bright lance...

2 x S8 attacks + 21 x S6 attacks should cover anything an enemy will throw at you and 3 lords will be a total pain.

There are some issues with this:

1. 5 man Avenger squads are simply too brittle and die-not every mission focuses on destroying the enemy, some require Troops to capture objectives.
2. You cannot take 4 wraithlords

Otherwise, wraithspam seems pretty good.


EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post. It looks like you said to take four, when you just repeated one wraithlord (hope that makes sense)

Sure you can't be aggressive with the DA but as an opponent I am going to sh%& my pants seeing 3 wraithlords... that is a lot of accurate firepower... I think the other option is you can go for 1 unit of rangers instead of 2 DA. The rangers are going to be hard to kill especially when he will not want to get close to the 3 Wraithlords... I mean who wants to face 6 flamer templates and a charge by 1 or more T8 creatures each putting out 2 to 3 S 10 attacks.

Also, have you given a thought to a 3-team unit of D-Cannons? Barrage, blast, wounds on 2+ with AP2, glances on 3-4, pens on 5-6. And for 50 pts per team, it's bang for your buck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would run Pathfinders... Hey there! Check out my 2+ cover save. Oh... I failed one. Good thing I can re-roll that! (fortuneseer)