Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone, I figured it would be a good idea to collect all the legitimate questions you find in the new Tau codex together into one thread. so they can be sent to tournament organizers and/or GW for use in making their FAQs.

So if you see legitimate arguments/discussions about rules questions in other threads, then please post the pertinent question (along with any relevant rules information) into this this thread. If a question is based on a loophole that 95% of players and judges are going to agree on the answer, then it isn't worth including on this list.

But most importantly: PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSS/ARGUE THE RULES IN THIS THREAD. If you think a particular question has an easy answer that was missed by the person adding it into the thread, then posting about it ONCE is fine (and appreciated), but please do not engage in a back and forth discussion about a rule...start another thread on the topic if you need to do that.


Thanks!


I'll get the ball rolling with some of the questions I've seen posted in his forum so far along with some of my own questions:


Army Special Rules
• If the Supporting Fire special rule is being used to fire multiple Tau units at a single charging enemy unit, who chooses which order to resolve the different unit's shooting? Does the Tau player simply choose which valid units to fire (or not fire) one after the other? Or must the Tau player declare all the units he intends to fire overwatch with and then the player whose turn it is (the opposing player), gets to choose which order to resolve them in?
• Is overwatch fire from multiple units at the same enemy charging unit considered to be simultaneous? Or can a markerlight hit from the first unit firing overwatch then be used by the second unit firing overwatch at the same target, etc?


Ranged Weapons
• Can a model that is able to purchase 3 items from the Ranged Weapons chart (such as an XV8 Battlesuit) take 2 of the same weapon without twin-linking them (such as two separate plasma rifles, for example)? If so, can they also potentially use all 3 selections to triple up on a single weapon type, such as taking 1 plasma rifle as well as 1 twin-linked plasma rifle?
• If a firing unit scores a hit with both a networked markerlight & its other weapons on a swooping flying monstrous creature, does this force two grounding tests or just one?


Support Systems
• Can a Drone Controller benefit any type of Drones as the summary suggests, or are Missile Drones exempt from this benefit as the main rules text suggests?
• Does a Target Lock (or even the Split Fire rule) allow a unit that is firing Overwatch to target a 2nd enemy unit besides one that is charging them?
• If a markerlight counter is used to launch a seeker missile at a zooming flyer or swooping monstrous creature, what BS is used to roll to hit (the BS5 specified in the markerlight seeker rules or BS1 for firing snap shots)?
• If the above answer is that the snap shot BS1 takes precedence over the BS5 of a markerlight-launched Seeker Missile, what about if the firing model has the Skyfire special rule (like a Skyray)? In that case (a markerlight counter is used to launch a Seeker off of a Skyray), is the Skyray's own BS used (assuming it is using Skyfire to make this shooting attack)?
• The rules for Multi-trackers specifies that they allow the model to fire an extra weapon in the 'shooting phase'. Does this mean a model with a multi-tracker firing overwatch can only fire a single weapon?


Vehicle Battle Systems
• Does a Disruption Pod give the vehicle Stealth as the summary suggests, or just +1 Cover Save as the main rules text suggests?
• When a vehicle fires overwatch using a Point Defence Targeting Relay, does a markerlight count as being S5 or less?


Drones
• Although the rules are clear that attached Drones have to fire at the same target their vehicle fires at, can/do attached Drones fire at the same time the vehicle they're attached to fires? Or do you always fire them as a separate unit from the firing vehicle?
• If a model with a Drone Controller that has the Skyfire special rule fires at a zooming flyer or swooping monstrous creature, do any drones firing as part of that unit get to fire using the Drone Controller's normal BS, or do they still fire snap shots?
• If a model with a Drone Controller and a Counterfire Defense System is charged, do any Drones in the unit firing overwatch also benefit from the Counterfire Defense System bonus because of the Drone Controller?


HQ
• Aun'va's Paradox of Duality is rolled for when the unit suffers one or more unsaved wounds. If the shooting attack has other effects that trigger off of an unsaved wound, which is resolved first, the Paradox of Duality or the other effects? Or is the current player's choice to decide? And if the Paradox of Duality is allowed to be resolved first, then if it successfully discounts the wound, does whatever effect that was triggered from the unsaved wound then ignored as well?
• Can wounds that ignore cover be discarded by the Paradox of Duality?
• Is an Ethereal's Invocation of Elements range measured 12" to friendly MODELS or UNITS? The main rules text says units, but the summary says models.
• With the Ethereal's Invocation of Elements abilities, do you measure the 12" from the Ethereal at the start of the movement phase when the specific elemental power is declared to see which friendly units are affected, or do you check the 12" range continuously throughout the turn when another model would like to make use of the elemental power? For example, if a Firewarrior unit is within 12" of the Ethereal when he declares the 'Sense of Stone' power, do they still benefit from it until the start of their next turn even if they then move more than 12" away from the Ethereal? Or alternatively, if a unit starts the turn more than 12" away from the Ethereal can it then move back within 12" to benefit from an elemental power? If the latter is the case (that range is continuously checked throughout the turn), when exactly do you check range for the 'Zephyr's Grace' power? Do you check before a unit makes its run move, or after it finishes making its run move?


ELITES
• If a Steath Team contains 4 Stealth Suit models in it, can 1 or 2 of these models upgrade their burst cannon to a fusion blaster?
• Can an Independent Character join a Riptide unit?


FAST ATTACK
• If attached Interceptor Drones use the Interceptor rule to fire in the enemy turn at an enemy unit arriving from reserve, can they only fire snap shots if the Sun Shark they're attached to moved at cruising speed the previous turn? Or does the restriction on passengers only firing snap shots from a vehicle that moved cruising speed only apply to the same player turn the vehicle moved (as written)?
• If an Interceptor Drone detaches from a Sun Shark that moved or is moving cruising speed in the movement phase, are there any negative effects on the Drone's shooting in the subsequent shooting phase?
• Is the Sun Shark supposed to start with 1 Pulse Bomb (if not, how can it ever generate a Pulse Bomb as the Pulse Bomb Generator only works after a bombing run has already been made)?


HEAVY SUPPORT
• The twin-linked smart missile system on a Hammerhead and Sky Ray are the same points cost (free) as the twin-linked Burst Cannon despite being superior in every possible way. Is this a typo?


GENERAL RULEBOOK QUESTIONS
• Does the line of sight restriction for firing an Interceptor weapon in the opponent's turn apply even if the weapon itself doesn't require line of sight to its target?

Supporting Fire:

Can a unit use this ability to fire overwatch multiple times against separate targets if multiple units within 6" are charged? (It doesn't say you can't, and arguably the specific codex rule overrules the generic core rule saying you can't).

Drone Controller:

A unit composed of a crisis suit with a drone controller and skyfire upgrade shoots at a zooming flyer. Which takes precedence: do the drones use the controller's BS (since it can fire at full BS here), or does the "snap shots only" rule reduce the drones to BS 1? (Two simultaneous effects trying to set drone BS).

Riptide:

Can FNP saves be taken against nova charge wounds? RAW yes, but is this intentional?

Stealth Team:

Fusion is "every three models". Does this round up or down (IIRC there was a case recently where it rounds up). IOW, can a unit of four stealth suits take one fusion gun or two?

Sun Shark:

How do the drones work while carried as passengers? Do they count as weapons or embarked passengers? (If they're passengers they can only snap fire until they disembark because the flyer is moving at cruising speed).

Longstrike:

The normal vehicle overwatch system is limited to STR 5 weapons. Does Longstrike's similar ability have this limit, or can he fire with the Hammerhead's main gun too?

Does Longstrike's Hammerhead gain the character rule?

Advanced Targeting System:

The vehicle and infantry versions are slightly different: is the vehicle one also meant to grant precise shots on a 5+ to character vehicles that take it?

Decoy Launchers:

Do you get the save against any weapon that has the interceptor rule, or just weapons that are being fired using the interceptor rule?

Ethereal:

Apparently there's a difference in wording between the full and summary rules, one says any MODEL within 12" gains the benefit, the other says UNITS within 12" gain it. Apparently this is also different depending on the language.

Targeting Array:

GW forgot to add this to the support systems and vehicle upgrade lists:

Targeting array: a model with a targeting array has +1 BS.

(Yes, this is a serious issue. FW rules still have models that can take a targeting array, but now there are no more rules to explain what it does.)

Multitracker:

Again, an unfortunate omission from the vehicle upgrade list:

Multitracker: a vehicle with a multitracker counts as a fast vehicle when determining how many weapons it may fire at full BS.

 Peregrine wrote:
Supporting Fire:

Can a unit use this ability to fire overwatch multiple times against separate targets if multiple units within 6" are charged? (It doesn't say you can't, and arguably the specific codex rule overrules the generic core rule saying you can't).

It very clearly indicates that the unit may only fire overwatch once.

Sun Shark:

How do the drones work while carried as passengers? Do they count as weapons or embarked passengers? (If they're passengers they can only snap fire until they disembark because the flyer is moving at cruising speed).

Pretty clearly covered in the drone rules, also remember that a Zooming Flyer that moves 18 inches is moving at combat speed.

 Peregrine wrote:

Targeting Array:

GW forgot to add this to the support systems and vehicle upgrade lists:

Targeting array: a model with a targeting array has +1 BS.

(Yes, this is a serious issue. FW rules still have models that can take a targeting array, but now there are no more rules to explain what it does.)

Multitracker:

Again, an unfortunate omission from the vehicle upgrade list:

Multitracker: a vehicle with a multitracker counts as a fast vehicle when determining how many weapons it may fire at full BS.

I fully agree. These two issues must be address as it could potentially harm Forge World sales of Tau models. Why would any gamer want spend money on a BS3 Manta or BS3 Tiger Shark AX-1-0?

Another question that needs to be addressed is what becomes of Forge World Broadsides, which normally comes one 40mm base compared to the newer GW Broadside model that comes on a 60mm base?

 SabrX wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Targeting Array:

GW forgot to add this to the support systems and vehicle upgrade lists:

Targeting array: a model with a targeting array has +1 BS.

(Yes, this is a serious issue. FW rules still have models that can take a targeting array, but now there are no more rules to explain what it does.)

Multitracker:

Again, an unfortunate omission from the vehicle upgrade list:

Multitracker: a vehicle with a multitracker counts as a fast vehicle when determining how many weapons it may fire at full BS.

I fully agree. These two issues must be address as it could potentially harm Forge World sales of Tau models. Why would any gamer want spend money on a BS3 Manta or BS3 Tiger Shark AX-1-0?

Another question that needs to be addressed is what becomes of Forge World Broadsides, which normally comes one 40mm base compared to the newer GW Broadside model that comes on a 60mm base?

#
As far as I recall somewhere near the front of the rulebook it says you use the base that the model comes with. So 40mm is ok.

 SabrX wrote:

I fully agree. These two issues must be address as it could potentially harm Forge World sales of Tau models. Why would any gamer want spend money on a BS3 Manta or BS3 Tiger Shark AX-1-0?

Another question that needs to be addressed is what becomes of Forge World Broadsides, which normally comes one 40mm base compared to the newer GW Broadside model that comes on a 60mm base?

This happens everytime that GW updates a codex. FW is always pretty aware of these issues and takes care of them the next time they can update the relevant rules, although this is sadly tends to take a while.

So if you want to collate all the FW entries that utilize those upgrades, then that can be useful to pass onto TOs that use Imperial Armor in their events, but when it comes to actually getting GW, for example, to answer that question they're not going to bother as its an issue for FW to deal with at this point.

 Peregrine wrote:
Stealth Team:

Fusion is "every three models". Does this round up or down (IIRC there was a case recently where it rounds up). IOW, can a unit of four stealth suits take one fusion gun or two?

Don't remember the case you "quote" in parenthesis, but imo this is quite clear:
"one in every three models" means full multiples of three then with four stealth you get option for just one fusion gun - if you take two, you are taking one every two models, don't you think?
It should have said "... in every three models or fraction thereof" to let open the 'other' option.

Can you use your firewarrior shas'ui markerlights before anything else fires with the target lock he also gets, meaning you can effectively have a "markerlight" phase before you shoot anything

Kerrathyr wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Stealth Team:

Fusion is "every three models". Does this round up or down (IIRC there was a case recently where it rounds up). IOW, can a unit of four stealth suits take one fusion gun or two?

Don't remember the case you "quote" in parenthesis, but imo this is quite clear:
"one in every three models" means full multiples of three then with four stealth you get option for just one fusion gun - if you take two, you are taking one every two models, don't you think?
It should have said "... in every three models or fraction thereof" to let open the 'other' option.

I think he's thinking of the Noise Marine Blast Master thing, where it was 1 for every 10 models. They actually errata'd it to be 1, and one more if you have 10 or more.

HeadRipper wrote:Can you use your firewarrior shas'ui markerlights before anything else fires with the target lock he also gets, meaning you can effectively have a "markerlight" phase before you shoot anything

All models in a unit fire at the same time. He will be firing before other units, but not before other members of his squad.

The wording for the Stealth team fusion blasters is "For every three models in the unit (excluding drones)". That means full three models, not a fraction.

One to add, where RAW at the moment seems clear but I personally feel can't possibly be RAI.
Can Independent Characters join a Riptide, as it is not a unit that always consists of a single model?
Full thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/518912.page#5475835

Can Pinpoint boost the accuracy of subsequent markerlight shots?

I guess this codex is pretty darn well written because it seems as though the vast majority of the questions being submitted are simply:

The rules are crystal clear, but is that REALLY what you mean by those rules?

Honestly, unless its something completely egregious that seems like it *must* be a loophole then it should probably be answered in a FAQ, but most of these things are just...well, the rules!

Do markerlights counters expended benefit other markerlights being shot at that unit? Yep. Rules are crystal clear and the fact that the previous rules went out of their way to deny such a thing makes it even less likely that they just forgot to include it.

Can ICs join a Riptide? Sure why not. Is it any more crazy than Tyranid Primes joining Carnifexes?

Can a model with a target lock and a markerlight fire before the rest of his unit? Nope, why would he? The rules are clear.

Can FNP be taken against Nova Charge wounds? Of course, it is not a save (and not a cheap FNP to purchase, either).

Does Longstrike's support fire ability have the same limitations as a Point Defense Targeting Relay? Why would it, they're different rules!

Does Longstrike give the vehicle the character rule? Why would he...he doesn't even have a profile, he is just an upgrade to the vehicle.

Do Decoy Luanchers get their save against a weapon with the Interceptor rule even when its not being fired in response to the vehicle arriving from reserve? Of course, that's what the rules say...Interceptor is not an on/off thing, it is a special rule that a weapon has that allows it to do special stuff, but no matter what that weapon still has the Interceptor rule.


I mean if you want to give me follow-up as to why you think these rules really are ambiguous, please do so, but from my perspective we seem to be getting too many 'are you really sure?' questions.

As the person who posted a couple of these:

 yakface wrote:
I mean if you want to give me follow-up as to why you think these rules really are ambiguous, please do so, but from my perspective we seem to be getting too many 'are you really sure?' questions.

Yes, some of these are obvious RAW. But you said this isn't just a tournament reference, it will be sent to GW with the intent of persuading them to include answers in the next FAQ. Those questions are IMO the kind of "RAW vs. fluff" where GW likes to change the rule because it wasn't "fluffy", and I'd much rather find out ASAP that Riptides don't get their FNP anymore than have it become established that they do and suddenly get a FAQ out of nowhere that changes it.

For Paradox of Duality wouldn't it be like Feel No Pain? Meaning unless it says otherwise you still suffer the effects?

Volley Fire:
Does Volley Fire also provide an additional shot for Longshot Pulse Rifles?

There's like a 90% chance that it doesn't, but I'd like to be sure.

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, some of these are obvious RAW. But you said this isn't just a tournament reference, it will be sent to GW with the intent of persuading them to include answers in the next FAQ. Those questions are IMO the kind of "RAW vs. fluff" where GW likes to change the rule because it wasn't "fluffy"

This, basically. A Tyranid Prime joining a Carnifex may be a bit odd, but they are both big creatures nevertheless. So it's perhaps not unimaginable.
On the other hand, I can't see an Ethereal being saved because a Riptide decided to "leap into the bullet's path" for an LoS roll. Nor can I see a Battle Brother ally (Space Marine Captain perhaps?) sitting at the back of the field using it as a bodyguard either.

yakface wrote:Honestly, unless its something completely egregious that seems like it *must* be a loophole then it should probably be answered in a FAQ

...well... yes. Exactly! This is an FAQ collection thread.

And this is why I posted things like the "can Riptides take FNP against nova charge wounds": http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/518991.page . That question, and others like it, will be asked endlessly until GW finally says it explicitly in an FAQ. So the sooner that FAQ is written the better.

What do recon drones do?

XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team pays 2pts per model for the Bonding Knife Ritual Special rule. No other unit in the codex pays 2per, is that a typo?

 psychadelicmime wrote:
What do recon drones do?

Page 38 of the Codex.

 yakface wrote:



Drones
• Although the rules are clear that attached Drones have to fire at the same target their vehicle fires at, dan/do attached Drones fire at the same time the vehicle they're attached to fires? Or do you always fire them as a separate unit from the firing vehicle? This is especially important for things like markerlight counters expended...in other words, does a markerlight counter expended to increase a vehicle's BS also apply to its attached drones, or do additional markerlight counters have to be expended separately to boost the attached Drones shooting?
•

I think this one should be pulled. It is pretty well answered on pg 33 Tau codex:" Target Acquired [the marklight special rule] abilities used by the Tau vehicle or vehicle squadrons, also apply to any attached drones."

Yak - you are told to treat vehicle attached drones as embarked passengers. As such they are NOT part of thre same unit as the vehicle, so do NOT fire at the same time.

Where actually are the points costs for the weapons used by battlesuits? The reference in the unit entry isn't very specific. Whilst not an actual FAQ question, thought best to ask here rather than make a new thread. Thanks!

 yakface wrote:

I

Can ICs join a Riptide? Sure why not. Is it any more crazy than Tyranid Primes joining Carnifexes?

This one is actually a little strange. The real question is do drones count when considering is a unit always a unit of one. Drones could be ruled both ways based on the other rules. Since an IC with drones is not consider to have a squad so can attach to other squads, and groups of drones are considered squads. If drones don't quad towards squad count then, no an IC can not join a Ripetide. If they do count towards a squad not always being a unit of 1, then yes IC can join the Ripetide


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yak - you are told to treat vehicle attached drones as embarked passengers. As such they are NOT part of thre same unit as the vehicle, so do NOT fire at the same time.

Nos, reread the entry. It reads like they do since they must fire at the same target and use the same Target Aquired rule.

Barnowls - no, drones cannot be ruled any other way. they are, RAW, additional members of the unit for al purposes. Rules are clear on this.

I HAVE read the unit entry, thanks for assuming I havent, and doing so while not countering the actual argument. The first line is you treat them as embarked passengers - which are ALWAYS separate units

You are then told *changes* to this rule - which is that they must fire at the same target. This is different to the normal rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Barnowls - no, drones cannot be ruled any other way. they are, RAW, additional members of the unit for al purposes. Rules are clear on this.

I HAVE read the unit entry, thanks for assuming I havent, and doing so while not countering the actual argument. The first line is you treat them as embarked passengers - which are ALWAYS separate units

You are then told *changes* to this rule - which is that they must fire at the same target. This is different to the normal rules.

Did not assume you hadn't as I said "reread" not read. New codex easy to miss stuff first reads through.And I did counter the argument, you just don't think it is valid and ignored it.

If they fire at separate time then how can they use the same "Target Aquired" rules? That would point to them firing at the same time as does the requirement to fire at the same target. N

barnowl wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Barnowls - no, drones cannot be ruled any other way. they are, RAW, additional members of the unit for al purposes. Rules are clear on this.

I HAVE read the unit entry, thanks for assuming I havent, and doing so while not countering the actual argument. The first line is you treat them as embarked passengers - which are ALWAYS separate units

You are then told *changes* to this rule - which is that they must fire at the same target. This is different to the normal rules.

Did not assume you hadn't as I said "reread" not read. New codex easy to miss stuff first reads through.And I did counter the argument, you just don't think it is valid and ignored it.

If they fire at separate time then how can they use the same "Target Aquired" rules? That would point to them firing at the same time as does the requirement to fire at the same target. N

They can use the same "Target Acquired" rules because the Drone rules say they can. Nothing in the Drone rules implies they have to fire at the same time. Only at the same target and with all the Markerlight bonuses the vehicle gets. No permission or requirement is given to fire them all at once, so you can't. Although it would probably pay to fire them right after to prevent you forgetting the target and bonuses.

A Pathfinder unit with drones consists of both Infantry, and Jet Pack Infantry. How far does such a unit redeploy when taking advantage of the "Scout" special rule.

NOTE: To save you having to reference the rulebook Yak, the issue is Scout says "If the unit is Infantry, Artillery, a Walker or a Monstrous Creature, each model can redeploy anywhere entirely within 6" of its current position. If it is any other unit type, each model can instead redeploy anywhere entirely within 12" of its current position." which is to say, it determines on a per unit basis, not a per model one.

This really would be a terrible unit, but . . . Could using 4 separate Ethereals (Invoking the Storm of Fire) each attached to an individual Fire warrior squadron; All within 12" of each other each grant the Fire warriors an Additional 4 shots apiece? Could the same be done for a single Fire warrior squad if you were to attach 4 Cadre Fireblades to the same squad?

 EnragedTemplar wrote:
This really would be a terrible unit, but . . . Could using 4 separate Ethereals (Invoking the Storm of Fire) each attached to an individual Fire warrior squadron; All within 12" of each other each grant the Fire warriors an Additional 4 shots apiece? Could the same be done for a single Fire warrior squad if you were to attach 4 Cadre Fireblades to the same squad?

No, the rules for Storm of Fire on page 35 already say that the power can only affect a unit once per turn, no matter how many Etherals are chanting about fire storms.

The Cadre Fireblade one though is a good question because the Volley Fire rule doesn't have the 'may only gain this affect once per turn' wording.