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yakface tests the new Tau codex w/ his existing Tau models vs. DA (pics) - full game now posted  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Who Will Win?
The new Tau have enough firepower to blow the DA away!
The Tau will win in shooting but the DA will win in combat...a draw!
The Tau have no answer for the Land Raider with Powerfield...DA victory!

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Made in gb
Fireknife Shas'el





Leicester

TheGoatMan wrote:
Needless to say I was reluctant to charge his army in the future.


And this right here suggests we might have a winner codex that suits the fluff. Tau shouldn't win in close combat, they should win by never getting there in the first place.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/08 20:53:17


DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Backfire wrote:
barnowl wrote:

I doubt that will get FAQd. It looks pretty intentional, along with the removal of an option to shot as a fast vehicle and the addition of Longstrike, I think it was pretty much done to keep Ionheads from being overwatch beasts.


Overwatch?? I don't quite understand. Anyway, I doubt Ionhead is seeing any more playtime in this edition compared to last.

That aside, I never thought I would see these words uttered by a Tau player:
"...I literally have nothing that can penetrate his Land Raider."

...


Longstrike upgrade gives his tank the Supporting Fire TSR and the option to do multiple Overwatches per turn. The standard Railhead is not much of an overwatch with only the one big gun. Ionhead is better for that roll (plasmahead even better)
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA


Okay, the rest of the battle has now been added to my post on page 1.

I still have some final thoughts to give on both my performance in this game and the new Tau in general (my thoughts moving forward with Tau).


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Good report! I especially like the tactics shown by the Deathwing Knights in using the extreme flank charge to deny part of the Overwatch from the rest of the Tau line.

It's clear that this new Codex will cause people-- even Marine players-- to start taking Overwatch seriously. After all, if two squads of 12 Fire Warriors both Rapid Fire a Marine unit, even hitting on sixes that's eight hits, 16/3 wounds, and one or two Marines down with average rolls. When you consider how Random Charge Length often means losing even a single model will deny the charge, it's clear that players will need to have a more sophisticated understanding of how to conduct assaults in order to engage the Tau-- which, of course, is as it should be.
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

 Kingsley wrote:
Good report! I especially like the tactics shown by the Deathwing Knights in using the extreme flank charge to deny part of the Overwatch from the rest of the Tau line.

It's clear that this new Codex will cause people-- even Marine players-- to start taking Overwatch seriously. After all, if two squads of 12 Fire Warriors both Rapid Fire a Marine unit, even hitting on sixes that's eight hits, 16/3 wounds, and one or two Marines down with average rolls. When you consider how Random Charge Length often means losing even a single model will deny the charge, it's clear that players will need to have a more sophisticated understanding of how to conduct assaults in order to engage the Tau-- which, of course, is as it should be.


That's not even considering that the Ethereal is giving the Firewarriors an extra shot at half range (15") and not taking into consideration if either of those units have markerlights and get lucky, cause if they do its going to be way more painful than that!


And as for his tactics, yeah it was a great idea to hit me on the flank and he knew it, that's why he didn't charge on turn 3 and instead set it up for turn 4. Having a Land Raider that was indestructible at that point gave him the incredible luxury to do that, and he could also use its tank shock to completely disrupt my overwatch formations if he felt like it as well.

There's no question in my mind that Tau need to take out any tank transports the enemy have ASAP because tank shock moves can really ruin their whole supporting fire formation.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




What annoyed me to no end in 5th edition was that winning tactic against Tau was often just such an autowin - you took a large, survivable unit next to Tau units, weathered the shooting, multi-assault, all Tau units wiped out for almost no loss. Good to see Tau have at least some tools to defend themselves against that now.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





yakface wrote:
That's not even considering that the Ethereal is giving the Firewarriors an extra shot at half range (15") and not taking into consideration if either of those units have markerlights and get lucky, cause if they do its going to be way more painful than that!


Sure, though to be fair I also didn't consider whether any of the FW had been killed prior to the charge. All in all I think it's safe to say that Overwatch is a real part of the game now and that everyone (not just Dark Eldar and Daemons) need to take it into consideration when planning their charges. I can see a lot of Chaos Marine armies picking up the Dirge Caster upgrade soon...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 00:56:15


 
   
Made in ca
Nasty Nob





Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I was very, very surprised to see the Missile Drone FAQ'ed so quickly, maybe there is hope for GW after all?

Current Project: Random quaratine models!
Most Recently Completed: Stormcast Nightvault Warband
On the Desk: Looking into 3D Printing!
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Made in us
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA


TAU POST GAME THOUGHTS

Before I go into general musings about the new Tau units in particular, I thought I'd address my actual tactical decisions in this game.


Tactical assessment of my gameplay

Spoiler:
1) I was really afraid that I'd need my 2nd squad of Kroot to fend off his Land Raider & bike assault, so I infiltrated them in the center rather than bubblewrapping my Hammerhead from his Drop Pod. This was obviously a huge mistake...odds say I'm going to have to rely on making at least 1 4+ cover save for my Hammerhead to survive a round of shooting from 2 marines firing meltaguns, and that's not a gamble I should have taken.

With 20 Kroot (plus the pathfinders in the forest in front of the Hammerhead), I could have easily made a bubble that would have prevented him from getting within 6" for his melta double-penetration, and him taking down my Hammerhead changed EVERYTHING about the game. It gave him first blood, and he got the VP for the Hammerhead plus the Pathfinders right out of the gate. With my Hammerhead still alive I would have had at least a shot each turn to do something to his Land Raider and obviously I wouldn't have been down 3 VPs immediately. So that was clearly my biggest mistake.


2) Sending my Kroot to go shoot at his Drop Pod Marines was always going to be very unlikely to produce a VP, because if I whittled them down (as I did) he could just hide them (as he was starting to by the end of the game). Instead, I should have just ran my Kroot forward on turn 3 on to go get Linebreaker, which would have been pratically an automatic VP. Or perhaps doing that may have convinced his Rhino Marines to drive on to confront them (and then if my missile Pods take out the Rhino as they did, now my Kroot can shoot or charge his 5 Marines and maybe kill them). Who knows, but I do know chasing the Pod marines was a waste of time and I felt it at the time.


3) I can't discount how his amazing saving throws for his Bikers on turns 1-2 impacted the game. My Broadsides really, really needed to be firing at his Vindicator from the very first turn and they were instead having to fire at the bikers (and hallucination pinning them in turn 2 obviously hurt as well).

But my thinking coming out of this game is that I probably should trust in my overwatch a little bit more when I'm set up well in a firebase. Meaning, I should have gone ahead and fired my Broadsides at his Vindicator on turn 1 and just trusted that I could handle his bikers on with my turn 2 shooting plus any overwatch I might get should he charge. That is a lesson I have learned from this game for sure...you can definitely count more on overwatch with Tau than with any other army, and even if it isn't as effective as it is in your mind, the psychological effect of the Supporting Fire on your opponent may actually convince them not to even try to charge when statistically it is still probably the right idea in many cases.


4) Basically the same point as #3, I never should have run my firebase away from the Deathwing Knights. While it is unlikely that standing firm would have changed the outcome of the game (since it ended on turn 5 anyway), doing that would have given me the best chance to win the game had it continued, I think. I need to trust the +1 Pulse shot and overwatch and keep formations intact to make the enemy pay for charging.


5) As I mentioned in the Bat Rep itself, I should have split the commander off late in the game to split targets. I took retro-thrusers and it is probably worth taking Target Lock instead to give me this kind of flexibility without having to have him leave the unit (and thereby taking his Tank Hunter with him).


6) I know its not a 'tactic' per se, but the fact that night-fighting never happened was a big bummer as I have a lot of advantages with this army at night that I wanted to utilize.



Next up, I thought I'd rate the units as I took them in this game:


Tactical assessment of the units in my army

Spoiler:
Commander: A+. This guy was every bit the force multiplier for the Crisis Suits that I thought he'd be. His ability to soak damage by sitting at the front of the unit and then passing off S8 wounds onto Drones is still amazing (it was in the old codex too)...I'm dreading the day I fail that crucial Look out Sir roll, though. I'd love to take the Crisis Bodyguard unit to avoid this issue (as long as they're alive the Commander auto-passes his Look Out Sir olls), but the extra 10 points per Crisis Suit just seems to steep for me since you're not really getting any other useful bonuses (who cares about +1 A and +1 Ld really).

Having Tank Hunters on a Crisis Team is just bonkers...I will never take another Tau army without that Puretide chip, for sure. And had my opponent taken flyers, the fact that I rolled up the 'Skyfire' ability for my Commander and his Crisis Team (plus the Tank Hunter) would have been very bad news for him!

The BS5 of the commander is awesome because it definitely means you don't have to waste one of his suit slots taking a twin-linked version of his gun...he just doesn't need it (and so can focus on taking cool gear that beefs up a crisis unit instead). Also BS5 marker drones and gun drones via his Drone Controller is super amazing. My gun drones were never in range the entire game, but I think a big part of that owes to the fact that my opponent had such a (generally uncommon) tank-heavy force. Against an army with more infantry (which is much more common these days) I still think a hail of BS5 Pulse Carbine shots would be tremendously deadly. What's also great about his BS5 is that there is no longer a BS cap on markerlight BS boosting. So if I'm spending markerlight counters to boost the regualr Crisis Suits up to BS5, for example, this also means my Commander and Drones are now BS7 and getting re-rolls (on a 5+ on the 2nd roll).

The only thing I'm still on the fence about is the Vectored-Retro-thrusters. I still think it can be a game changer to get your Crisis Team out of combat should the enemy get lucky and get there, but I don't know if its worth taking up a slot that would probably be better spent on a Target Lock, for example. Of course, the thrusters don't have to be taken by the Commander. As long as one model in the unit has them, then the unit has Hit-and-Run and uses the highest Initiative value in the unit (typically the Drones I4, or the I3 of the Commander after that)...so I could always have one of the regular schmoes take the thrusters instead. However, I'm really leaning towards taking up all 3 slots on my crisis suits with weapons (a twin-linked and a regular), so I'd have to give up that twin-linked weapon in order to do that (and I don't know if its worth it). So I'll probably play around with taking both the Target Lock or the Vector Thrusters on the Commander in different games and see how often one proves useful over the other.


Ethereal: A++. Um yeah, this model, along with the Supporting Fire rule basically changes how the entire army behaves. The basic Ethereal is so cheap (50 points) and adds SO MUCH to your army it is incredible. I'm still torn between the base level Ethereal and the Space Pope, so I'll have to try games with both to see how they work. The basic Ethereal can join a unit which makes him nice and protected, but also leaves him vulnerable to being charged and wiped out with the rest of the unit in combat. The Space Pope's Paradox of Duality should protect him from most shooting, but against certain weapons (like Multi-lasers especially, he's going to be super-exposed and that will really effect how easily you can reposition him to make sure as many of your units are within 12" as possible.

That's the thing about the Ethereal...you do need to shift him around a bit each turn to maximize his range and having him protected in a unit really gives you the option to do that without worrying too much. However, on the plus side for the Space Pope he does give you TWO abilities each turn (which is amazing) and his Warlord Trait doesn't have to be rolled for and is incredibly useful as well.


Kroot: A. I initially wrote the Kroot off when I read the codex, but I'm glad I didn't. They are the key to getting Supporting Fire to work properly because they're the only unit in the army big enough so that they can stretch across your entire gunline and make sure as many of your other units are within 6" of them.

The Ld 10 provided by the Ethereal finally stops them from being sniveling wimps when they get shot or assaulted, and if you make them Stubborn obviously they can be a tarpit for a couple turns (depending on how big your unit is). Also, the +1 shot ability for 1/2 range shots applying to Kroot as well as them benefiting from markerlights really does turn them from an annoyance into a potent offensive weapon. As soon as they're needing 3's or 2's to hit, the huge numbers of shots they kick out suddenly gets really, really dangerous.

I did NOT take sniper rounds for them, and this game did not convince me that this was a bad choice. Keeping their points cost low means more bodies, which means more shots, which means more benefits from each markerlight token spent on them. The sniper rounds also do not benefit form the +1 shot at 1/2 range ability the Ethereals give AND since they're heavy you have to remain still to use those rounds. Kroot rely too much on shifting around to plug the holes in their lines they get from enemy shooting to stand still to fire 24" sniper rounds. Were there some times where the sniper rounds would have helped? Sure, the bikes' T5, for example. But overall, I don't think its worth the points for the rare opportunity, not when it means getting less bodies in your army every single game.


Firewarriors: B+. I'm giving them a B+ in this particular game because they really were limited on what they were able to accomplish, but I think that's mainly due to the enemy army composition. I still do think that Firewarriors with an Ethereal and a Kroot screen are a really potent combo.

As for taking 2 marker drones in each Firewarrior units...I'm not sure. I still think the 'rippling markerlight' concept can produce some really amazing results, but it is an additional 34 points per unit (10 for the Shas'ui and 12 for each drone), which is STEEP considering the cost for the unit without them (108). And you really don't need the Shas'ui's Ld8 at all since they're going to be sitting with the Ethereal, so those 10 points for that upgrade really are wasted. Sadly, I think the opportunity cost may just be too high, but I don't want to abandon the concept just yet and will try it out again at some point to see how it goes.

I also have to remember that my Firewarriors and Pathfinders have Photon Grenades automatically. That is going to be a big adjustment for me (along with remembering the abilities I'm going to take for my Ethereal and Commander at the start of each turn). And also trying to remember that defensive grenades now give Stealth if the enemy shooting is within 8" is going be REALLY hard to remember!


Crisis Suits: B+. As always, these guys were superstars and nothing really has changed. The many bonuses the Commander brings to the unit really kick them up to another notch, but obviously that is only going to benefit one Crisis Suit team per army if you're taking an Ethereal with your other HQ choice, and that is a big issue for larger point games, I think. You definitely want to take the full 3-man team that is running around with the Commander to maximize his benefits though (which is another reason the bodyguard unit is something I wouldn't take, as it caps out at 2 models).

As to whether taking Gun Drones is a good idea or not...I don't know. They certainly didn't do anything this game, but as I said above that obviously has a lot to do with the army type I faced. One thing I am SURE of is, that you NEED to take the maximum amount of Drones in the Crisis Unit that is running with the Commander. Giving all those Drones BS5 is just too good to pass up. The only question is whether you go with marker Drones or Gun Drones.

Marker Drones with their 36" range really match way more the distance I like to keep away from the enemy with my Crisis Suits (24-36" range generally), because I'm running plasma rifles (24") and missile pods 36"). So while I really like the idea of the potential potency of having max gun drones I think I may go with all marker drones or at least 4 marker drones and 4 gun drones (when you include the 2 the commander takes).

Also, a big question still in my mind is how to equip Crisis Suits. In this battle I just took them with the standard Plasma/Missile Pod and basically had an extra slot sitting bare on all of them. On a squad running around with the commander I'm definitely leaning towards spending the extra 5 points per model to fill that extra slot with a twin-linked version of one of the guns they're using. I still haven't decided on whether to go with the TL Missile Pod or Plasma (I'm open to suggestions on why one would be better than the other). But the advantage I see about making one of their guns TL is that you wouldn't be so reliant on shooting the unit that has been marked by Pathfinders.

For example, let's say you have two enemy targets you really want to kill this turn, but one of your two Pathfinder teams has been killed or is out of position to see either of those units (not too rare an occurrence). But let's also say you have either 4 or 8 marker drones in your Crisis Team that is joined by your Commander. So your pathfinders mark on of your two priority enemy units. Normally you'd be compelled to shoot your Crisis team at that marked unit so as to maximize their shooting. But because you've twin-linked one of your Crisis Suit's weapons, you feel better about firing your Crisis Team at the OTHER priority enemy target (the one not marked)...and maybe with a target lock on your Commander you shoot at a different target all together if you want (cause he's BS5 anyway). So besides your Crisis Team's improved shooting (because one of their weapons is twin-linked) you also now hit that 2nd priority unit with 4-8 BS5 markerlights, and now you've marked your 2nd priority unit with a ton of markerlights for the rest of the Tau army.

I'm torn between TLing the Plasma and the Missile Pod because the Missile Pod gets more use (especially with Tank Hunter) so it feels like you'd get more use out of the TLing that way. But when you NEED the plasma shots you REALLY need them, so maybe that's the better choice...although working it out in my head right now I guess when you REALLY NEED those plasma shots is also when you markerlight the crap out of that enemy unit, so you don't really need the TLing of the plasma in that case. So I guess I decided right here that I'm going to go with a TL missile pod and a single Plasma rifle for my Crisis Suit load-out that runs around with my Commander.

The other question then is regarding the possibility of taking additional Crisis teams that aren't running around with the Commander. All of a sudden you don't have tank hunter and you don't have BS5 for any drones you take and you don't have a guy sitting in front of the unit soaking up all the shots...I really don't know how I'd run a 2nd Crisis Team except for maybe something with TL Fusion Blasters so I don't get painted into a corner by AV14 like I did in this game. Beyond that, maybe you don't even go with a 2nd Crisis Team and just take Riptides instead (more on that thought later)?

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on load-outs for non-commander accompanied Crisis teams...


Pathfinders: B-. I'm only rating these as low as this because I'm coming off of the high of playing with Tetras (which were SO much better than Pathfinders post FW update). The fact that they're no longer coupled with a Devilfish is a HUGE boon. However, being heavy weapons still means they basically have to stand still to be effective and even when you do you're only BS3 so half your shots are missing. But still, they're 11 points, which is one better than a marker drone which is BS2. I guess this goes to show how amazing getting BS5 markerlights via a Commander with Drone Controller really is.

Honestly if you're looking for pure point-effective markerlight hits, then you're probably best maxing out your Crisis Team with 8 Marker Drones (including the Commander's 2) and getting 8 BS5 marker drones that way. Or if you want to be nutty take a 12 man Gun Drone squadron, upgrade them to marker drones and put the Commander (with a target lock) in that squad...although then you're not getting tank hunters on your crisis team then (unless you pay to take a Shas'vre in your Crisis team).

So ultimately for my markerlight strategy I'll probably go with two 8 man Pathfinder units, and 8 marker drones with my crisis team (and get rid of the 4 I took in my firewarrior units). Overall I drop 68 points for the Firewarrior Shas'ui + 2 marker drones per unit, and only spend 44 points total for 2 more pathfinders per unit and I'll dramatically increase the number of markerlight hits I'll get each turn (although I decrease my chances of getting 'rippling' markerlights potentially during overwatch).


Broadsides: C-. First off all, Velocity Trackers at 20 points just aren't worth it. You just can't burn that main points, especially if you're taking 2 squads of 2 Broadsides each just in case you might fight a flyer heavy army. Its just too many points and there are better ways in the Tau army to fight flyers (which I'll get to later). Missile Drones are pretty darn awesome, but they are basically entirely dependent upon getting some markerlight hits, and frankly typically the target that you're markerlighting isn't the one you want the Broadsides to shoot at.

Also, my opponent was very generous with his cover saves, but I think there will be a really big issue with getting your missile drones into cover if you're not sitting your broadside team in area terrain. For example, if you're taking an ADL to give cover to your firebase, then I think missile drones (or drones of any kind really) are going to be sitting right above it, out of cover, unless you're counting their base as being part of the model (which I don't think anyone could realistically argue). That means you're basically dependent on having area terrain to set your broadsides up in, or else your opponent can simply 'focus fire' and knock those missile drones out pretty quick.

And as I found out in this game, when you're playing to keep the Drones alive by putting the Broadsides in front, that just means you're going to lose your Broadsides quicker! I'm much more used to having Shield Drones that mimic my Broadsides 2+ armor save so that I can keep them in front to take firepower, and I'm still not sure how best to play with missile drones. In theory they seem to valuable and too vulnerable to put at the front of the unit, but then again your Broadsides are generally even more valuable should you lose them to a S8+ shot...so how best to proceed?

I definitely think I'll keep at least one unit of 2 Broadsides in my list and keep trying the 4 missile drones as well...but I'm going to keep a close eye on how well that unit in general performs, because I just don't know anymore. Between the S10 nerf to their gun and the potential vulnerability of the missile drones, this has become a very finicky unit that I think will only shine in certain situations.


Hammerhead: D+. Okay, this ranking does have a lot to do with how quickly it died in this particular game and likely isn't really representative of how good it generally is. However, with that said, it still has all the problems it has in 5th edition, except now its cover save is only 4+ instead of 3+ (albeit there is no minimum 12" range on that save, which is great) AND it can't move 12" and still fire both its weapons at full effect anymore.

Sure, with the nerf to the Broadside's railgun, its S10 shot is more valuable than ever, but having a single BS4 S10 shot per turn for a 145 unit really isn't all that IMHO, especially when there are other alternatives to taking out heavy armor (like Fusion Blasters). If you're facing off against AV13 or 14 at range with a Tau army, I think you just suck it up and take it. If you have Sky Rays, you do have AV13 on front and you'll be getting a 4+ cover save, so it really is pretty acceptable. The thing you're really worried about are things like Land Raider Crusaders coming to ruin your day up close with assault units. And for that, you have Fusion Blasters, either on Piranhas or on small Crisis teams, etc. So when the enemy tries to come to you, you nuke them at that point.

For me, I think in all likelihood I will be leaving the Hammerhead at home as soon as I can get some Fusion Blasters into my army...but until then I guess the Hammerhead will get a few more chances to prove that my initial assessment is wrong.


Finally, I thought I'd share my thoughts about some other units in the Tau codex that I think might help to shore up my army. I'm not going to go through every unit in the codex, just the ones I'm considering adding into my army based on this game.


Tactical assessment of some other units in the codex

Spoiler:
HQ
• Although there are some other nice HQ choices in the book (Farsight & Cadre Fireblade are stand-outs to me so far), I'm quite happy with the basic Commander and either a basic Ethereal or Space Pope as my two HQ choices, so I'm not going to experiment with anything except those 3 for the time being.


TROOPS
• I'm totally happy with 2 units of Firewarriors and 2 units of Kroot...I don't know if the Kroot Hounds are really necessary anymore since you're likely not winning any rounds of combat with Kroot anymore...although I guess their I5 does help Kroot run away as well should you lose the combat, so its not the worst 5 points ever. Probably not worth taking more than 1 Kroot Hound per unit though, IMHO. This unit now is all about screening, shooting and overwatch now. I just wish the Krootox were like 15 points instead of 25!


ELITES
• I'd love to take some Stealths a cheap way to get Fusion Blasters into the army, but since you can only take 1 per full 3 models in the army and you can't twin-link them, I think you're better off going with like a lone suicide Deep Strike Crisis suit with twin-linked Fusion Blaster & Fusion Blaster or even a couple with TL Fusion Blasters and Missile Pods that sit back and wait for the enemy to come to them.


• The Riptide seems really interesting. I'm a bit dubious because there are things out there that can instan-gib this guy, like JotWW and any force weapon. But at least with his jetpack (and the possibility of doing the Nova Boost move) it does seem like you can generally get him out of dodge when need be.

The things I do see the Riptide bringing to the table are: with his ion blaster, you have three S7 AP2 shots. This guy seems like not a horrible place to take the 20 pt Velocity Tracker especially if GW goes crazy and says that a model with Skyfire and Drone controller benefits his Drone's shooting at flyers as well (although I don't forsee that really happening). He does also get you a Monstrous Creature with S6 and 3A, so if you did want to go up and punch a Land Raider (like in my game) you at least have that option (so another way to get around needing a S10 railgun anymore).

All-in-all, the Riptide with two Missile Drones does seem like a useful unit, although for 230+, I don't really know if he's worth it. But I'm definitely going to buy one just cause I like the model and I'll see how it does in my force and that will determine whether it is just a pretty paperweight or a permanent addition to my army.


FAST ATTACK
• For Pathfinders, all the new fancy drones are garbage IMHO. They're too expensive and not really worth their abilities when they may not get utilized in most games. I also still don't really like taking special weapons in Pathfinder units as it dilutes their purpose...although the S8 overcharged blasts that the Ion Rifle can kick out could be darn useful for instant-killing some things...and the standard S7 rapid fire shot on that gun has a variety of uses as well. The Rail Rifle, costs more and has less utility from my perspective. Since I only own 12 Pathfinder models and want at least 16, I'll be picking up a new box set of plastics, so maybe I'll try out 2 Ion Rifles (although if I end up wanting run that in both those units I'll have to convert or figure out a way to get my hands on more Ion Rifle bits).


• If I'm committed to taking 2 units of Pathfinders, that leaves me with only one more Fast Attack choice. Vespids do nothing for me, and both the flyers seem way to expensive IMHO considering they are AV11/10/10. So if anything I might consider taking a Piranha squadron again to have options against high AV vehicles.


HEAVY SUPPORT
• The Sniper Drone team looks awesomely deadly, but frankly it heaps more love onto the same type of firing the Tau already kick out tons of. So to me, that just leaves:


• The Sky Ray! This thing is a huge winner in my book. It is a tad cheaper than the Hammerhead, but most importantly it gets you anti-flyer capabilities into your army without paying some huge premium tax, and that firing is S8 (which is what you need against things like the Heldrake or Vendettas).

The other thing I love about the Sky Ray is that with most vehicles you're always afraid that you're losing a bunch of the points you pay for it if the vehicle blows up in the first few turns. With the Sky Ray, you generally control how much or how little to dish out at the beginning of the game, because you have 6 Seekers primed and ready to go. While flyers can only fire 2 missiles a turn, regular vehicles have no such restriction, so as long as the Sky Ray remains stationary (if you need it), then you can theoretically unleash all of its Seekers in one turn.

Even if you move it 6" and can only fire a single weapon at full BS, you still have the 2 networked markerlights to launch 2 more, plus any other markerlight hits the rest of your army have put on the target you want to take out.

Then, when you do run out of Seekers, you've still got a vehicle that can hide out of line of sight and fire 4 S5 smart missile shots per turn at BS5 that ignore cover. At 130 pts a pop (which includes disruption pods) I NEED to have two of these things minimum in my army...hell I might even go crazy and eventually have 3 of them and leave the Broadsides at home entirely, I think they are *that* point efficient and versatile.



I hope you enjoyed this battle report and my musings on the new Tau army. Overall I really love the new book and am excited to play with (pure) Tau again!


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Paso Robles, CA, USA

Great write up and battle report. Sending to my buddy, a tau player, so he can use some of the knowledge you've gleaned.

Can't say I'm too sad you lost, though. I play Dark Angels...

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Leicester

On battlesuit load out, I've been wondering about t/l fusion and burst cannon for use as deep strikers against guard. The ranges now tally nicely, it gives you a decent number of shots against massed infantry and the melta to take down vehicles. I fact even burst cannons against rear armour can whittle off hull points.

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Great report, considering you were using all pre existing units from the 4th ed codex, do you think that the game would have gone a whole lot differently if you were using the old rules?

Im interested whether the broadsides would have made more of a contribution, or whether the da could just assault faster due to the lesser overwatch threath. Maybe tactics would have been
different all round so it may not have been comparable.

Also, having played with the new codex, do you think that adding in any of the new units could have turned it around for you? for example I would imagine a riptide would have put up more of a fight
than the hammerhead. Are you planning on adding any of the new units in to your list?

   
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Whorelando, FL

Great analysis Yak. You've reached some of the same conclusions I've reached in reading that codex. I think Tetras are more gross now than previous because boosting it's marklight hits with other markerlights is something that will be hideous. Plus, they are dirt cheap and are small enough to hang out behind an aegis line. What are your thoughts about using the aegis with your army? Do you intend to try it out? Finally, I agree with you about the skyray. I think that it has great potential.

   
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Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

yakface, Im kind of worried about a comment of yours on the first page about proxying the commander. As it will some weeks before I receive my codex, I want to ask one question. Does the codex really constrain us to a single posed minature for our HQ?

Finecast at that as well!

Cheers

Andrew

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on the forum. Obviously

Huh, DA won. That was disappointing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 14:08:45


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 AndrewC wrote:
yakface, Im kind of worried about a comment of yours on the first page about proxying the commander. As it will some weeks before I receive my codex, I want to ask one question. Does the codex really constrain us to a single posed minature for our HQ?

Finecast at that as well!

Cheers

Andrew


The codex is vague enough that nobody is going to give you trouble for using any old crisis suit. I would not worry about it.
   
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A comment about your commander and the drone squad. I kind of think giving that squad any markerlight hits is unneeded. The gun drones are already hitting on 2s, and they're twinlinked to begin with. So rerollable 2+ to hit is good enough, as you can't use a second reroll on them. Now, if it was a markerlight squad, maybe it would be worthwhile, but will those 1s be worth the markerlight hits to get a second chance of getting a 6 or even a 5 if you spend 2 markerlight hits? I don't think so, but some will. I think those markerlight hits are better used on shooting units.
   
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 yakface wrote:

Hammerhead: D+. Okay, this ranking does have a lot to do with how quickly it died in this particular game and likely isn't really representative of how good it generally is. However, with that said, it still has all the problems it has in 5th edition, except now its cover save is only 4+ instead of 3+ (albeit there is no minimum 12" range on that save, which is great) AND it can't move 12" and still fire both its weapons at full effect anymore.

Sure, with the nerf to the Broadside's railgun, its S10 shot is more valuable than ever, but having a single BS4 S10 shot per turn for a 145 unit really isn't all that IMHO


Ha, I've been saying this for weeks, yet all I ever get in response "but Hammerhead is now cheaper, making it totally awesome!!" As if that would matter! However, I'm afraid Railguns will still be necessary for TAC lists. In the 5th, waiting for enemy transports to come within your Fusion Blaster range was recipe for failure, now it perhaps isn't that grave threat anymore (still bad, but not autolose). However, there are other armored threats than transports. I believe that unless you go full-Broadside with some Fusions for Land Raiders and Battlewagons, you're still going to require Railheads.

I disagree about Sky Ray. I don't think it's all that great. I believe people will soon find out that AP3 weapon isn't really that hot against AV12 flyers, plus it's not really that survivable, and of course enemy who relies on flyers will hope to target Sky Ray first. Inability to move & shoot is a big downer for skimmer which needs its Jink save. Also, major bummer is that it no longer can shoot Seeker missiles via other vehicles, because that would have been boss with Skyfire. Now, it actually may risk running out of missiles if enemy has many fliers or you roll poorly. Also, not everyone has flyers and against land targets, it's just about as bad as in previous book.

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Bay Area

Losing Hammerhead and First Blood was indeed a devastating blow. Perhaps Fusion Blasters or Riptide could have helped?

Too bad you lost. Good battle report, and thanks for sharing!

   
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Sunnyvale, CA

Thank you for the battle report and the in depth analysis / first impressions of the Tau codex! I was afraid that they will make the Tau codex a dumbdowned newby friendly book but in reality it seems to be quite the finesse army!

- 4000
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Eye of Terror

Hey yakface how do you feel about your troop choices? Troops were the proverbial Achilles Heel for Tau in fifth edition. What changes would you make to your troop choices and why based on this game?

Seeing it was your first game with the new codex I think you did okay. Lots of new rules to learn!

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I really don't understand why you didn't bubble wrap the frak out of the single unit in your army that could hurt his lynchpin unit.

I don't understand why the DA player took two PFGs when he could have just gained the same effect by riding the Black Knights alongside the LRC for the same effect. Because tau pack tons of power weapons in CC?

I don't get why the DA player thought riding his bikes up against the entire tau army when the only other thing to shoot was a LR a good idea, or charging with a 2/12 chance of making it against quadruple overwatch.

Also you're missing the most important thing about Riptides: Str 8 Ap2 Large Blast Interceptor for 5 points and a 72" range.

Crisis suits are completely outclassed.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 05:17:24


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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

EagleEye7 wrote:Great report, considering you were using all pre existing units from the 4th ed codex, do you think that the game would have gone a whole lot differently if you were using the old rules?

Im interested whether the broadsides would have made more of a contribution, or whether the da could just assault faster due to the lesser overwatch threath. Maybe tactics would have been
different all round so it may not have been comparable.

Also, having played with the new codex, do you think that adding in any of the new units could have turned it around for you? for example I would imagine a riptide would have put up more of a fight
than the hammerhead. Are you planning on adding any of the new units in to your list?


Yeah, pre this new codex anytime you saw a Land Raider on the table as a Tau player you licked your chops with excitement because they were so easy to destroy compared to the points they cost the player who took them.

All of a sudden Land Raiders are back to being the bane of my existence with Tau, which makes me sad, as that's what I'm used to when playing with my Orks.

So yeah, if I was playing with the old Codex this would have been very different. I would have had a 2nd Broadside unit for sure instead of the Hammerhead and his Land Raider, Vindicator & Rhino would have been gone nearly instantaneously...in other words, it would have been a bloodbath.

So while I guess you can say from that the Tau have been toned down, its only in one place (super-high vehicle AV penetration). In all other areas, Tau got considerably better IMHO, it just so happened that my first game testing them out I was facing their Achilles heel (with the units I happened to be taking).

CaptKaruthors wrote:Great analysis Yak. You've reached some of the same conclusions I've reached in reading that codex. I think Tetras are more gross now than previous because boosting it's marklight hits with other markerlights is something that will be hideous. Plus, they are dirt cheap and are small enough to hang out behind an aegis line. What are your thoughts about using the aegis with your army? Do you intend to try it out? Finally, I agree with you about the skyray. I think that it has great potential.


I think the Aegis seems like a perfect match for the Tau. I don't know how I'd fit it in at 1,500 points (I'd probably take it without the gun, to be honest), but at higher point values it will probably be something I start taking every time. With it, I'll probably test using the Space Pope, as he seems perfectly suited to hang out behind it and make your firebase super-crazy.

I don't think I will be taking Tetras until FW cleans-up the rules as I don't want to become to reliant on them knowing that FW will likely do something to nerf them quite a bit when they finally revisit their rules.

AndrewC wrote:yakface, Im kind of worried about a comment of yours on the first page about proxying the commander. As it will some weeks before I receive my codex, I want to ask one question. Does the codex really constrain us to a single posed minature for our HQ?

Finecast at that as well!

Cheers

Andrew


If you're using a standard Commander model from before I wouldn't worry about it. The only reason I feel like its kind of an issue for me is because I'm using a conversion commander to start with that is ALREADY smaller than the normal Crisis Suit by quite a bit, and now the new commander is even bigger than the standard Crisis Suit, so it feels kind of wrong to me.

Plus, I really do like the new Commander model, so I don't feel bad picking one up (even with the obnoxious price).

Salacious Greed wrote:A comment about your commander and the drone squad. I kind of think giving that squad any markerlight hits is unneeded. The gun drones are already hitting on 2s, and they're twinlinked to begin with. So rerollable 2+ to hit is good enough, as you can't use a second reroll on them. Now, if it was a markerlight squad, maybe it would be worthwhile, but will those 1s be worth the markerlight hits to get a second chance of getting a 6 or even a 5 if you spend 2 markerlight hits? I don't think so, but some will. I think those markerlight hits are better used on shooting units.


Yeah, if the Commander is just hanging out with a unit of Drones they definitely don't need any markerlight support. But if we're talking about the Commander along with 3 Crisis Suits (and 8 markerlight drones) as I plan to run in the future, then yeah, you will need markerlight support to boost up the Crisis BS if you really need those plasma/missile pod hits.

Backfire wrote:
Ha, I've been saying this for weeks, yet all I ever get in response "but Hammerhead is now cheaper, making it totally awesome!!" As if that would matter! However, I'm afraid Railguns will still be necessary for TAC lists. In the 5th, waiting for enemy transports to come within your Fusion Blaster range was recipe for failure, now it perhaps isn't that grave threat anymore (still bad, but not autolose). However, there are other armored threats than transports. I believe that unless you go full-Broadside with some Fusions for Land Raiders and Battlewagons, you're still going to require Railheads.

I disagree about Sky Ray. I don't think it's all that great. I believe people will soon find out that AP3 weapon isn't really that hot against AV12 flyers, plus it's not really that survivable, and of course enemy who relies on flyers will hope to target Sky Ray first. Inability to move & shoot is a big downer for skimmer which needs its Jink save. Also, major bummer is that it no longer can shoot Seeker missiles via other vehicles, because that would have been boss with Skyfire. Now, it actually may risk running out of missiles if enemy has many fliers or you roll poorly. Also, not everyone has flyers and against land targets, it's just about as bad as in previous book.


The thing is, besides Land Raiders, there just aren't that many long range vehicle threats that 3 Crisis Suits + Commander with Missile Pods and Tank Hunter can't take care of.

So I think for Fusion Blasters, the only thing you're really taking them for is to have a thread to take out Land Raider Crusaders that are going to rampage through your gunline and ruin your overwatch. Everything else I think the Crisis Missile Pod+Tank Hunter, Broadsides+Missile Drones, and Sky Ray Seekers can take care of.

The thing you're missing about the Sky Ray is that, yes it can move and only fire one seeker naturally, but if you really want something dead (and need to move your Sky Ray at the same time) you can mark that thing with markerlights from other units and then fire away with your Sky Ray even while moving. So its situational. If there's something facing you that can threaten its AV13, then yeah you'll need to keep it moving, but then you just make sure to mark something with your Pathfinders that you want the Sky Ray to kill.

And there certainly will be plenty of times where AV13 on the front will make you secure enough to leave the Sky Ray standing still for a turn or 2 to maximize its firepower. Not to mention since all its weapons that require LOS are up on its (quite tall) turret, there should be quite a bit of terrain you can find where you can hide the model behind it while allowing its turret to stick over, thereby giving you the 4+ cover save (+1 for the disruption pod) without needing to move.

SabrX wrote:Losing Hammerhead and First Blood was indeed a devastating blow. Perhaps Fusion Blasters or Riptide could have helped?

Too bad you lost. Good battle report, and thanks for sharing!


Yeah, as I mention in my post-game thoughts, both those things would have really helped in this particular case (against a Land Raider). Also just bubble-wrapping my Hammerhead with my Kroot would have likely changed the game as well. He probably still would have had to drop the Pod trying to take out the Hammerhead, but it would have been much more likely to fail and afterwards my Kroot would have been there to swarm him (along with the Pathfinders).

My plan moving forward for a similar style list at 1,500 points based on the lessons I learned in this game is as follows:

Spoiler:
• Commander w/ plasma rifle, missile pod, drone controller, target lock, puretide chip & 2 marker drones (167)
• Ethereal w/ blacksun filter (55)

• 12 Firewarriors (108)
• 12 Firewarriors (108)
• 20 Kroot w/ 1 Kroot Hound (125)
• 20 Kroot w/ 1 Kroot Hound (125)

• 3 Crisis Suits w/ plasma rifles, TL missile pods & 6 marker drones (243)
• 2 Crisis Suits w/ missile pods & TL fusion blasters (114)

• 8 Pathfinders (88)
• 8 Pathfinders (88)
• 1 Piranha w/ fusion blaster (50)

• 1 Broadside w/ seeker missile, 2 missile drones, bonding ritual (98)
• Sky Ray Gunship w/ TL smart missile system, blacksun filter & disruption pod (131)


I think that has much nicer balance to it. I've got 3 fusion blasters in there now, with the 2 man Crisis team able to do a suicide Deep Strike attack or if a good target doesn't exist they can just sit back and JSJ with their missile pod (might swap that out for plasma rifles...not sure yet.

The Sky Ray gives me better AA defense in general and also plays better with all the markerlights I have in the army (which is why the Broadside now has one as well).


Grey Therion wrote:Thank you for the battle report and the in depth analysis / first impressions of the Tau codex! I was afraid that they will make the Tau codex a dumbdowned newby friendly book but in reality it seems to be quite the finesse army!


Yeah, they are definitely still an army that requires finesse...maybe more than ever!

I really do like the new book and the army in general so far though.


 Dozer Blades wrote:
Hey yakface how do you feel about your troop choices? Troops were the proverbial Achilles Heel for Tau in fifth edition. What changes would you make to your troop choices and why based on this game?

Seeing it was your first game with the new codex I think you did okay. Lots of new rules to learn!


You can see my revised list for upcoming games up above.

I dropped out the 2 marker drones from the Firewarrior squads because of the 10 point 'tax' you have to pay to get the Shas'ui (since my FW are sitting within range of the Ethereal anyway). I also dropped one of the Kroot Hounds out of the Kroot units as well.

But besides that, I'm planning with sticking with the general configuration of what I took as far as Troops are concerned as I like how they performed overall given that this was not the best particular match-up for them.

I am curious to see how they perform in a mission where I have to move around a bit to capture some objectives where I can't just keep them all within Ethereal range. All of a sudden I may realize that I do need/want the Ld bonus the Shaper & Shas'ui provides...I may end having one Kroot unit and one Firewarrior unit with these upgrades so they can operate out on their own together away from the Ethereal in some missions where I need to do that.

It also might be worth dropping the 2nd Kroot unit and instead trying to fit in a min-size FW squad riding in a Devilfish to scoot around and go for objectives...although I think the Kroot are probably a safer bet generally speaking.

I'd also love to take an Aegis to secure my firebase no matter what the terrain looks like, but I'm hard pressed to figure out how to fit it in at 1,500 points.


Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I really don't understand why you didn't bubble wrap the frak out of the single unit in your army that could hurt his lynchpin unit.

I don't understand why the DA player took two PFGs when he could have just gained the same effect by riding the Black Knights alongside the LRC for the same effect. Because tau pack tons of power weapons in CC?

I don't get why the DA player thought riding his bikes up against the entire tau army when the only other thing to shoot was a LR a good idea, or charging with a 2/12 chance of making it against quadruple overwatch.

Also you're missing the most important thing about Riptides: Str 8 Ap2 Large Blast Interceptor for 5 points and a 72" range.

Crisis suits are completely outclassed.


Well, I explained why I didn't bubble wrap my Hammerhead. It was definitely a mistake, but I figured it had a decent chance to survive a Drop Pod attack should he go for it, so I decided to gamble...again I'm not really used to Land Raiders being a hassle for my Tau, so even though in the back of my head I did know that my HH was the only thing that could damage his LR, I don't think that fact really penetrated my conscious thinking until I had finished my deployment.

As for the DA player, he probably runs two PF generators so that he doesn't have to keep his army together in a single bowling ball formation in any missions that benefit him splitting up his forces.

As for why he decided to charge with his bikes...he definitely wanted to get them locked in combat as he thought it would be the safest place for them (which is correct). He had not read the Tau Codex himself yet. I had explained Supporting Fire to him before the game, but I don't think he had a clear grasp of how expansive it could be until it all actually went down.

Finally, onto Riptides...I agree they seem like they can be pretty cool...a Riptide spam army seems like another good Tau build, for sure. But to say they completely outclass Firewarriors is crazy, because their weapons are not analogous. A single S8 AP2 large blast at AP3 (that will overheat 1 out of every 6 times it is fired) is going to be GREAT against certain foes, but not so great against other types of units (like many vehicles).

I think no matter what, having one unit of Crisis Suits running around with the Commander putting out 8 BS5 markerlights per turn is a great reason to include the unit.

But to each their own!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/10 06:03:47


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yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Neenah, Wisconsin

So here's a tactical question for you. In this game, your whole army overwatch was blunted by the high Toughness, and decent save of his bikes. So how do you think the two glasshammer (i.e. Eldar) armies are going to handle the new Tau? With short range weapons or assault units being our two main threats (particularly CWE) how do we handle an army like this?

I'll probably try using your flank idea as a start of the strategy. Getting across the table fast becomes necessary, so Wave Serpents may be a must. Other than a Harliestar/Wraith list, I can't think of a CWE list that stands much of a chance against this army now. They can even take away whatever cover we can find!

What do you think?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 06:29:58


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 Kyrolon wrote:
So here's a tactical question for you. In this game, your whole army overwatch was blunted by the high Toughness, and decent save of his bikes. So how do you think the two glasshammer (i.e. Eldar) armies are going to handle the new Tau? With short range weapons or assault units being our two main threats (particularly CWE) how do we handle an army like this?

I'll probably try using your flank idea as a start of the strategy. Getting across the table fast becomes necessary, so Wave Serpents may be a must. Other than a Harliestar/Wraith list, I can't think of a CWE list that stands much of a chance against this army now. They can even take away whatever cover we can find!

What do you think?


Eldar armies are fast enough that they can choose not to do a frontal assault on the Kroot, especially given that their skimmers can fly over them. The Kroot wall is the key to the whole army overwatching. Secondly, multiple units charging can get rid of the overwatch bonus. The units are unable to overwatch multiple times in a turn, launch a weak assault against the Kroot first, Storm Guardians or something could work. It's all about baiting the Tau player into overwatching the right unit.

@Yakface, it seems like the biggest problem you had here was just bad rolling, or rather fantastic rolling on the part of the SM player (you sure his dice weren't loaded? lol). Might I suggest you consider tossing some EMP grenades into the list? They can threaten any armor value and can pack a surprise punch against the unsuspecting.

Also, an Ionhead would be a viable solution to TEQ's in the future, given that the standard firewarriors are good enough versus the GEQ's.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 06:40:31


 
   
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Nottingham

I had my first game last night with the new 'Dex and I was very happy with it considering I didn't use any of the new toys.

Some notable points I hope you find useful

1) Chain linked markerlights in overwatch is brutal. I had a unit of 3 x Crisis Suits (TL MP and BC) and 3 GDs defensive fire hitting on 5s through markerlights. Plus a unit of pathfinders with double tap railrifles hitting on 5s and it was brutal. Whole squad gone.

2) Gun drones in crisis suits add so much dakka it's a no brainer taking them. I had 4 in the squad above and they paid for themselves as ablative wounds AND chucking out 8 TL bs3 (with no ml aid) S5 pinning hits. Added in with the Crisis suits they really owned anything that came within 18" through sheer numbers. Brilliant update in the codex, one of my favourite so far.

3) Piranhas - still do brilliantly but you have to be really agressive OR keep them in reserve waiting to see where the big armour goes and react accordingly. I had fusion armed. Made their points pack by taking out a dreadnought and thunderfire cannon.

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Chicago, IL USA

I played a similar game today in Chicago. I used a Tau gunline with some proxies and he used DA DW with kinghts in an LRC. He chose to DS all his DW but not very close. One unit charged and supporting fire wrecked him. I love it, you use the pathfinders first in supporting and then everything else. good battle report as well sorry to go off topic.

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Antiocan Forgeborn (Traitor IG 3,000pts): 11-4-2
Heavy Rain Cadre (Tau 4,000pts): 9-3-0
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 yakface wrote:

Spoiler:
• Commander w/ plasma rifle, missile pod, drone controller, target lock, puretide chip & 2 marker drones (167)
• Ethereal w/ blacksun filter (55)

• 12 Firewarriors (108)
• 12 Firewarriors (108)
• 20 Kroot w/ 1 Kroot Hound (125)
• 20 Kroot w/ 1 Kroot Hound (125)

• 3 Crisis Suits w/ plasma rifles, TL missile pods & 6 marker drones (243)
• 2 Crisis Suits w/ missile pods & TL fusion blasters (114)

• 8 Pathfinders (88)
• 8 Pathfinders (88)
• 1 Piranha w/ fusion blaster (50)

• 1 Broadside w/ seeker missile, 2 missile drones, bonding ritual (98)
• Sky Ray Gunship w/ TL smart missile system, blacksun filter & disruption pod (131)


I think that has much nicer balance to it. I've got 3 fusion blasters in there now, with the 2 man Crisis team able to do a suicide Deep Strike attack or if a good target doesn't exist they can just sit back and JSJ with their missile pod (might swap that out for plasma rifles...not sure yet.

The Sky Ray gives me better AA defense in general and also plays better with all the markerlights I have in the army (which is why the Broadside now has one as well).



Looks better. I like your suits, those are probably best configurations you can make with the new book, at least at this point level. You can never have too many Missile pods. You're lacking long-range fire, but of course 1500 points, you can't take everything.

• 1 Broadside w/ seeker missile, 2 missile drones, bonding ritual (98)

Do you still have to Bond monat suits? Disappointing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/10 09:14:34


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in gb
Daemonic Dreadnought





Derby, UK.

Didn't i read somewhere that some tau units can make a consolidation move after Overwatch but before the charge hits?

Seems to me that could help with causing charges to fail.

Armies:

(Iron Warriors) .......Gallery: Iron Warriors Gallery
.......Gallery: Necron Gallery - Army Sold
.......Gallery: Crimson Fists Gallery - Army Sold

Iron Warriors (8000 points-ish)

 
   
 
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