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Hi all,

Newb to 40k here, but not to miniature gaming. I am looking at planning an army. I say planning bcuase I have a backlog of projects and a toddler taking most of my time. I'd like to plan out an army so I can start accumulating what I need on feeBay, Barter Town, and dakka dakka.

I am thinking of doing a Sisters of Battle army combined with either Grey Knights or Ultramarines. First question is which would better compliment the SoB: Grey Knights or Ultramarines?

What SoB units are OOP? Are they still usable in 'legal' games?

What are some of the must-have SoB units?

More general questions:

What are average army sizes? How many Rhino-sized vehicles on one side?

How difficult is it to magnetize Rhino-sized vehicles to switch between configurations?

What is the difference between Forge World and GW vehicle models? Quality? Selection? Legality?

I think thats all the questions I have for now.

Thanks!

Well, Sisters of Battle are a tough mountain to climb. You're going to be pretty much on a short feed line for models to show up, and when they do, they will not be cheap usually. You should be prepared for that.

As far as allies, I find that IG best complement Sisters by providing bodies and loads of anti-take firepower. SM could work, though in their case I'd focus on bigger guns that the SM can provide. GK could provide a melee component, but I dunno. They don't thrill me, it seems like they would be watering one another down.

Sisters of Battle models, while not OOP, are all old metal. You'll be paying a LOT for new sisters from GW, and they will be in small blisters, there are no Sisters boxes or bundles. They are all legal, however. Additionally, the codex for Sisters is not a regular codex, but it is over two issues of White Dwarf, which you'll need to find via trade or eBay.

Generally, Sisters must-have units include 1-2 Exorcist tanks, a Retributor squad with 4 heavy bolters and lots of Battle Sister and Dominion squads.

Average game size is based on the players in your area. Though shooting for 1000-1500 points is safe. I've never heard of a Rhino vehicle count, you take what is appropriate for your strategy, though for my Sisters, I prefer lots of transports.

The only real swapping layout Sisters would have is between a Rhino and an Immolator, which would be a simple job, as the Immolator's gun is a separate assembly that goes on a Rhino frame.

Forge World models are usually resin, while GW SoB are almost all metal, save for plastic vehicles. Selection-wise, you've not much when it comes to Sisters, they have a very limited range. Legality all boils down to how you use the models.

Imperial Guard is probably your best allies, both thematically and tactically-- providing objective holders, durable tanks, and long-ranged anti-tank firepower to support the highly limited Sisters list.

csimian wrote:
What SoB units are OOP? Are they still usable in 'legal' games?

I don't think any of them are technically out of production.

However, GW no longer sells Sisters in squads. They sell Sisters in packs of three bolter girls, with separate single-model packs of squad leaders, heavy and special weapons, and banner carriers. These packs are just a model, its backpack, its weapon, and its base-- all metal save for the base. There are no bitz, and they are not posable like modern plastic models (these models are about twenty years old).

csimian wrote:
What are some of the must-have SoB units?

Dominions are a squad of special-weapons users in a heavily armed transport that have Scouts. Combined with meltaguns, they provide one of the more reliable anti-tank units in the army. They're one of the few units that unequivocally gained in the new codex, and add much-needed mobility and deployment choices to the army.

Celestine is a nigh-unkillable goddess of war. You will love her when she resurrects during the last turn, denying your opponent points or tying up an objective. Works well with Seraphim.

Exorcists are your only long-ranged anti-tank. Sisters lists with two or three exorcists are fairly common last I checked, although I'm sure Pretre (who looks at the tactics and lists sections far more than I do) could tell you if this is still the case.

csimian wrote:
What are average army sizes? How many Rhino-sized vehicles on one side?

That depends on your build. Some people have made infantry swarms with no vehicles work for them. As for army size, that depends on location. Can't help you much there. I think 1500-2000 points is normal in most places, but again it varies.

csimian wrote:
What is the difference between Forge World and GW vehicle models? Quality? Selection? Legality?

There's only one forgeworld vehicle for Sisters that isn't a part of their normal army-- and the Repressor is quite popular and good.

To keep things cheap focus on Grey Knights to start with and build the sisters bit by bit. One of my friends is doing that because of ebay hunting.

I have been told that the siriphan squads are good as is the living saint. I have only seen games where they have a ton of Rhinos to keep them mobile. If taking a ton of rhinos you can use the mobility to get some melta gun teams to make rain on anyone's parade.

Siriphan? I suppose you mean Seraphim?

Seraphim is the plural form of Seraph, a kind of angel in certain Christian/Jewish lores.

I would suggest planning out your force before getting any units.

Get a copy of the whitedwarf dex.



What SoB units are OOP? Are they still usable in 'legal' games?

the older miltia models are not legal under their old rules but would work as count as IG allies or something.

Female inquisitors could now be a confessor.

What are some of the must-have SoB units?


This differs for each player depending on how they play or run their lists.

For me it would have to be
the living saint,,,she just wont die,is cheap,can be converted,scratch built to look amazing. Points wise rather cheap,
Retributors out flanking

exorcists,,though be prepared to roll single shots sometimes,,,dang twitchy machine spirit.(and be prepared for some greenstuff work as the metal bits hardly line up )

seraphim with 2 hand flamers and a melta bomb.


More general questions:

What are average army sizes? How many Rhino-sized vehicles on one side?

again,depends on play style,,,I run at least 7,exorcists,immolators ect....but then I run an all sisters list so that could vary if you take allies.

How difficult is it to magnetize Rhino-sized vehicles to switch between configurations?

Rather easy,just get some of those tiny circle magnets from walmart. or just paint up each type of weapon and just pop them on and off as the immolator kit pegs that hold rather dang well,just do not paint the peg or recess where they go.





What is the difference between Forge World and GW vehicle models? Quality? Selection? Legality?

I think the immolator kit is one of the best GW has put out,lots of conversion possibilities ,,,FW has one tank and a new jet if you can afford it that the sisters can take.

some FW has been 40k approved but some tourneys vary on if you can field them or not.

Be prepared to get some hate from people that don't know how good they can be(yes the mini dex isnt that great,but it is not that horrible either),also be prepared to spend some cash,took me over a year to get everything I wanted.

Thanks for the input everyone. I am tempted to get some IG super-heavy tanks because they look awesome, but I think I'd rather get some Space Marines. I could go for Death Watch since they seem to go with SoB fluff-wise. From the fluff I read on the wiki it sounds like they'd be an army comprised of multiple Space Marine factions. Is that tough to do? Is it a good idea?

So, how many points is an Exorcist tank? Gomericus says he fields 7. This could get expensive. Might take a while to accumulate (and paint) everything. I better save up for my wife to go to the spa a few times too, else she will kill me

csimian wrote:Hi all,

Newb to 40k here, but not to miniature gaming. I am looking at planning an army. I say planning bcuase I have a backlog of projects and a toddler taking most of my time. I'd like to plan out an army so I can start accumulating what I need on feeBay, Barter Town, and dakka dakka.

I am thinking of doing a Sisters of Battle army combined with either Grey Knights or Ultramarines. First question is which would better compliment the SoB: Grey Knights or Ultramarines?

Of the two options you gave, both provide good compliments to SoB. SoB generally are lacking in CC, mid to long range shooting, and poor Troops selection. I have seen more SoB players go to GK over vanilla Marines for allies, but some have also made use of SW for good effect. It would really depend on what you wanted to run and the points you are playing at, but I would personally lean more towards the GK over SM.

csimian wrote:What SoB units are OOP? Are they still usable in 'legal' games?

Aside from the aforementioned Frateris Militia models, and a limited edition (Games Day?) Seraphim model, all the other models should be available from GW's website. You will however pay an arm and a leg for most of what you need. You can try eBay or even the Dakka Swap Shop for better deals. You can also try to see if your FLGS will allow you some sort of discount for ordering models. They are most definitely "legal" for play in games. Anyone telling you otherwise is being a git. Oh, as also mentioned before, you will also have a difficult time getting the WD Codex legally.

csimian wrote:What are some of the must-have SoB units?

St. Celestine is generally considered one of the most OP HQ for her points. Any other of the named HQ's (Kyrinov, Jacobus) are strictly better than their generic equivalents with similar gear (and cheaper point-wise to boot!). Dominions and Seraphim are both viable choices with different roles. Retributors with Heavy Bolters in a Bastion or behind an ADL can be quite good and have some reach. Exorcists are still very good and Melissia is still correct in that most SoB lists still run three Exorcists or two and a Heavy Bolter Retributor Squad. Our troops are limited to one choice: Battle Sisters Squads and they are the "tax" we pay to take the better options. But since we must have at least two of them they are kind of "must have."

csimian wrote:What are average army sizes? How many Rhino-sized vehicles on one side?

Both of those questions really depend on your local area or the events you plan on attending. 1850 can be a "general" army size to shoot for, with allowances to scale back down to 1750 (or 1500) or to scale up to 2000. With allies, that number can also change with how much you want to commit to allies. As far as number of Rhino chassis, that really depends on your points level and list. I can run a 2k list with none (not the best of ideas IMO) or a 500 point list with three. I generally try to saturate the field to force my opponents to deal with multiple threats to where they hopefully won't be able to deal with all of them (Exorcists, Dominions in Immolators, Troops in Rhinos, etc.). There is no magic number that is correct for everyone.

csimian wrote:How difficult is it to magnetize Rhino-sized vehicles to switch between configurations?

Well, the four Rhino chassis we have are quite nice. The Rhino/Immolator kit is actually a good buy. It costs the same as a normal SM Rhino and comes with many more bits and can make either kit with or without magnetization. The Exorcist have either the old metal-plastic hybrid or a FW model available. I personally prefer the old kit, but many swear by the FW one. A SM Whirlwind would also make a suitable proxy or conversion, or a mix between the SoB Rhino kit and a WW. The Repressor is FW only and depending on where you are playing, you may or may not be able to regularly play with FW stuff. Some people are making use of just the the SoB Rhino/Immolator to represent the Repressor.

csimian wrote:What is the difference between Forge World and GW vehicle models? Quality? Selection? Legality?

FW models are typically resin or resin/plastic hybrids. They sometimes offer an alternate model for normal GW models. The selection for SoB from FW is quite limited. The "legality" of FW models is its own can of worms, but suffice it say, some areas will let you play with them, some will not. If they are just used as an alternative to a GW model (the Exorcist for example) then you shouldn't have any issues from anyone. If you try to use an Avenger flyer (FW only, FW rules, not in SoB CD), you may receive resistance to such.

csimian wrote:I think thats all the questions I have for now.

Thanks!

No Problem!

csimian wrote:Thanks for the input everyone. I am tempted to get some IG super-heavy tanks because they look awesome, but I think I'd rather get some Space Marines. I could go for Death Watch since they seem to go with SoB fluff-wise. From the fluff I read on the wiki it sounds like they'd be an army comprised of multiple Space Marine factions. Is that tough to do? Is it a good idea?

It is not really that tough to do. Just buy some vanilla SM and paint them to be different chapters. Getting extra bits for the individual chapters represented in your DW shouldn't be that difficult. It is not a bad idea, it really is up to you.

csimian wrote:So, how many points is an Exorcist tank? Gomericus says he fields 7. This could get expensive.

We can't, as a precaution from GW, post things directly from the Codex just because. Exorcists have not changed point costs in well over a decade though. Six Exorcists are the most that can be fielded in non-Apocalypse games and that is only at 2000 points or more with the use of double FOC. Seven could only be used in "friendly" games, Apocalypse, or some other special case. Three Exorcists should cover your for the majority of situations though. SoB are very expensive as has been noted.

csimian wrote:Might take a while to accumulate (and paint) everything. I better save up for my wife to go to the spa a few times too, else she will kill me

Very good idea!

csimian wrote:Thanks for the input everyone. I am tempted to get some IG super-heavy tanks because they look awesome, but I think I'd rather get some Space Marines. I could go for Death Watch since they seem to go with SoB fluff-wise. From the fluff I read on the wiki it sounds like they'd be an army comprised of multiple Space Marine factions. Is that tough to do? Is it a good idea?

Fluffwise, it probably depends on whether you'd prever GW's or FFG's version of the Deathwatch - the former doesn't really show up as a proper army, and is structured a bit differently. If you wish to keep to GW's version and keep the allied contingent small, it might still work out, although it's probably pushing the boundaries a bit to see so many DW Marines running around. Also, the Deathwatch would belong to the Ordo Xenos (whereas the Sisters are an ally of the Ordo Hereticus), and mostly show up only to fight aliens, somewhat limiting their "fluff viability" when fighting other armies. It's certainly not undoable, but in my opinion/perception combined operations between these two groups would be exceptions from the rule and as such possibly a bit awkward for a general and consistent army theme.
It's largely a matter of gut-feeling, though, as in the end the fluff is what you make of it, and the aforementioned case is just one example of where even official sources portray different visions, so you certainly need not feel too limited but rather free to get just as creative.

However, if you really want to go with Marines as allies, you could consider one of the normal Chapters, perhaps? Average Space Marines and the Imperial Guard always have been the Sisters' most obvious allies, ever since their very first pre-2E-Codex rules in an ancient White Dwarf that allowed to field squads of Battle Sisters attached to SM and IG armies. The Black Templars, for example, have a similarly religious feel to their appearance, and the fluff section of their Codex even features a crusade where they fought alongside the Sororitas. What's more, the BT's black-and-white colour scheme is easily compatible to the three traditional colours of the Sisterhood (red/gold, black, white/silver).

Speaking of colours - maybe this helps you pick a Major Order, or come up with a Minor Order of your own making (by picking a cool maternal Major Order from this list with whom your own creation could share aspects of demeanour and uniform):

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Aside from the aforementioned Frateris Militia models, and a limited edition (Games Day?) Seraphim model, all the other models should be available from GW's website.

Well, there is also the old Banner Bearer ... she's no longer available (I even asked GW's customer support some years ago), but the current one was obviously based on the same sculpt. Personally, I'm glad I still managed to find the old one, as that one (imho) makes for far better/proper banners. The new one looks kinda small'ish, and if we want to nitpick it's not an actual banner that she carries either. In fact, I'm fairly sure that back then, this one used to be an alternate Imagifier, bearing some sort of sacred scroll ...

The 3E Codex also had two types of banners, by the way. Amongst other, probably more important things, the 5E minidex stole the "Blessed Banner of the Orders Militant", which was a sort of army flag (iirc it could only be fielded in games of 2.000+ pts) whereas the smaller banner just stands for the convent that detachment is a part of.

The old Banner Bearer can still be found on eBay etc on about every second day of the week.

 Lynata wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Aside from the aforementioned Frateris Militia models, and a limited edition (Games Day?) Seraphim model, all the other models should be available from GW's website.

Well, there is also the old Banner Bearer ... she's no longer available (I even asked GW's customer support some years ago), but the current one was obviously based on the same sculpt. Personally, I'm glad I still managed to find the old one, as that one (imho) makes for far better/proper banners. The new one looks kinda small'ish, and if we want to nitpick it's not an actual banner that she carries either. In fact, I'm fairly sure that back then, this one used to be an alternate Imagifier, bearing some sort of sacred scroll ...

The 3E Codex also had two types of banners, by the way. Amongst other, probably more important things, the 5E minidex stole the "Blessed Banner of the Orders Militant", which was a sort of army flag (iirc it could only be fielded in games of 2.000+ pts) whereas the smaller banner just stands for the convent that detachment is a part of.

The old Banner Bearer can still be found on eBay etc on about every second day of the week.

Ohhhh...didn't know about that one. I'll have to pick one up. Thanks!

If you are planning on running Sisters of Battle now, you have to realize you're going to invest a lot of money. It's an expensive army, but having them be all metal gives it a quality feeling that I don't get with plastic myself.

Whether you're planning on playing competitively or not, you will eventually get Celestine. There is just no reasons to not run her. She's gorgeous as a model and there is literally no better warlords. If you're going to run her, you will have Seraphims with her. They are the perfect bodyguards and, when joined together, they will annihilate any infantry unit in the game. After that you need two squads of Sisters for your troops and form there, it's entirely up to you on what you want to play.

As for allies, guards work wonders. They can provide many more troops. Unfortunately basic sister squads are a tax in our white dwarf codex so you won't want to be running too many of them. Your points are much better spent in the fast and heavy support sections.

Grey knights also are solid. Coteaz is cheap for what he can bring to your army. It allows you to take Jokaero that can bring lascannons and a dreadknight with an incinerator provides a nasty threat to your opponent and will usually allow the seraphims to move up while he gets shot down.

Voldrak wrote:There is just no reasons to not run her.

"Style".

I remain adamant about running a 100% pure and average Sisters convent with a custom HQ. No pompous cleric SCs, and no weird Living Saint who pushes the Canoness off the battlefield. I realise I'm gimping myself, but still.

Well yes, that goes without saying. But he was talking about competitiveness.

The WD codex is by no means bad, there's just a lack of options.

The special characters are so good that you must use them, unless you really feel fluffy.

Only one Troop choice - IMO one of the best basic troops in the game but still just one choice. Flamers and Heavy Flamers make for tasty cooking. Standard tactic for me is to drive up, jump out and let loose, hoping the target is hurt enough that it can't destroy me in CC next turn.

Fast Attack has Dominions and Seraphim and both are great choices. Outflanking Dominions with meltas in a MM Immolator are great value for the cost against any army using vehicles. 1-2 tanks dead and all enemies near turning on the Dominions, leaving my scoring units alone for a while. Seraphim with one or two double hand flamers will do horrible things to large bunched-up squads - think I managed 35 wounds on a posse of Horrors last game.

The Exorcist is one of the best tanks in the game when you know what to do with it. Wiping out a Terminator squad or Wraithlord in one salvo is always satisfying. Retributors with Heavy Bolters make for nice infantry/light vehicle destruction with their Faith power.

As for the cost - yes, all metal costs. I never managed to do anything with the GW Exorcist kit and run mine with old metal Whirlwind missile turrets instead - no one is mistaking them for Whirlwinds anyway. Rhino chassis transports abound and I'd buy Immolator kits for all. If you don't glue in the ring with the Rhino stormbolter the Immolator turret goes in the same hole. One kit, two models with one simple swap.

^ that about sums it up, I guess. And I definitively agree with Voldrak regarding the "feel" of metal minis.

Melissia wrote:But he was talking about competitiveness.

"Competitive or not" - else I wouldn't have spoken up. Celestine is pretty hard to pass up on, speaking purely on mechanical terms.

For the SM allies I am looking at the Storm Wardens and the Black Templars now. Its a toss up right now. I do like the fluff of both and blue is my favorite color. But the Black Templars do have custom parts which look fantastic.

If you chose GK as allies, don't forget that beginning with round 3, the opponent gains control over them to shoot your sororitas.

Well, you could always do a new Chapter - and combine the custom bits of the Templars with the colours you like.

It could be a relatively "fresh" (just one or two thousand years old) Ultramarines Successor with a slightly more medieval visual style rooted in their Chapter Homeworld, whose culture is already "tainted" by Ecclesiarchal Missionary teachings which would carry over into the new Astartes Chapter in the form of perhaps not outright religious worship of the Emperor as a god, but an acceptance of the Ecclesiarchy as an aspect of Imperial culture that would make dealings with the Sororitas considerably easier and thus more fruitful.

Kroothawk wrote:If you chose GK as allies, don't forget that beginning with round 3, the opponent gains control over them to shoot your sororitas.

I see what you did there.

Don't get me wrong. I have two canoness that I had built a backstory for and who I dearly love.

Losing the Cloak of St-Aspira however has hurt them tremendously. I could do without the 2++ they used to get and go for a 2+/4++ only... but 3+/4++ (and no options for a blessed weapon anymore) means she dies too quickly without bringing any real punch.

I once had a canoness take on an eldar Avatar and kill it while the squad died all around. That was what I called awesome and cinematic... but those days are gone.

As off now they are working behind the lines, sending new recruits out to be tested in the field... and strangely enough a living saint has shown interest in my small convent... or maybe it's just a promising seraphim she's watching over... but she does tend to show up a lot

I just found that Scibor minis have some awesome offerings that will work well for the Storm Wardens (their Celtic line). They also have a set of mechanical wings I may try to attach to the Seraphim

I can feel your urge. I recently acquired a 2k+ sisters army, used and painted (chipped... badly) for $500. But it's $1250 worth of stuff new. I am lacking in special weapons, but since I have so much invested, I'm going to make some custom sisters from here on out.

I recommend also saving up a lump sum to get a used army off ebay. You'll find a better deal. It will require a ton of work in restoration, but the dollar savings are worth it.

I got:
Celestine
2x Cannoness
18 Seraphim (4x hand flamers,1 sup)
2x melta
2x storm bolters
7x flamer
3x heavy flamers
1x multi melta
42x bolter gals
6x sister superior
2x simulacrum imperialus
7x repentia with mistress
Some random dudes (preacher, etc)
2x penitent engines
2x exorcist (I had one I was building, 3 total!)
2x immolators
4x rhinos

And a Karamazov?! Yea, go figure. I'm only missing four backpacks. I intend to ally in Coteaz and the inquisition to get cheap plasma guns, laser monkeys, and a flyer.

I would save your pennies and try to find a deal like that. It doesn't scratch that itch right away, but you're going to be more satisfied. I wish you luck joining the fold!

csimian, I play Sisters of Battle competitively and won 3 of my last 4 tourneys with them. they are excellent. Sisters of Battle+ Grey Knight allies placed top three at NOVA.

There is a great deal of ignorance about the army out there because so few pople own it and THEREFORE so few have great experience to draw on in playing against them. This results in the losses seeming more frequent than they truly are in the minds of those who played them and the inverse the wins.

If you want a tactically flexible army that can pour firepoer down someons throat at a reasonable cost, Sisters of Battle are so definitely your army. Currently the codex is a simple one to understand and if it weren't so darn expensive, I'd tell pople that it is a GREAT starter army! It has all the elements you need except for anti-air, but even that can be overcome with Fortifications.

I would also like to say this: I just paid $500 for Tau and I didn't buy even close to enough to field an army. Armies are no longer cheap "in comparison" to anything! Lol, The cost of ALL armies is high. My Dark Eldar army was $1200 unpainted from the box and that was what, just a year ago?

I really gotta get of the crack. Lol.

 Lynata wrote:
Well, you could always do a new Chapter - and combine the custom bits of the Templars with the colours you like.

It could be a relatively "fresh" (just one or two thousand years old) Ultramarines Successor with a slightly more medieval visual style rooted in their Chapter Homeworld, whose culture is already "tainted" by Ecclesiarchal Missionary teachings which would carry over into the new Astartes Chapter in the form of perhaps not outright religious worship of the Emperor as a god, but an acceptance of the Ecclesiarchy as an aspect of Imperial culture that would make dealings with the Sororitas considerably easier and thus more fruitful.

No, If they use Templar cross they need to be Imperial Fists successors!