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So, I'm a pretty new Hammer...er and I just picked up the new Tau codex. Obviously Markerlights are the new hotness and therefore should be included as much as possible. My question is, however, how many? Say I want to start with a base force of a Cadre Fireblade and two FW squads. Should I do the Shas'ui upgrade, give him Markerlights, then take Markerlight drones? I don't want to go overboard when I could use the drones for something else, but they do only have BS2 after all. Thanks for any help!

Pathfinders, Tetras and Firesight spotters are the source of markerlights you want. Because a Firewarrior unit can't use its own markerlights, having ML drones is useless unless you str going to shoot at that same target with a second unit.

Markerlights on Shas'ui are very bad value for points, all you get from having a Shas'ui is +1Ld, if you have a Fireblade in the unit already then this is wasted. Essentially you're paying 25 points for a Markerlight at BS3. Markerlight drones without a drone controller are also bad value, they are 12 points for a Markerlight as BS2.

Pathfinders are good value for points in terms of Markerlights, they all come equipped with one for 11 points a model. I like to run Pathfinders in MSU, maybe three units of 5-7, assuming you don't want your Fast Attack slots for anything else (to be honest there isn't anything else worth having in Fast Attack). However, on the downside these guys are one of the squishiest things in the army, so bear that in mind. You can take a Shas'ui and give him Shield Drones to put in front of the unit in an attempt to soak up some wounds, but I'm not convinced this is worth the 34 points.

In terms of absolute best value for points, we have the Firesight Marksman. He is 13 points, comes ready with a Markerlight, and is BS5! These guys are crazy good, but sadly you can only get them in Sniper Drone Teams. Personally, I think they are the superior HS choice; I prefer Riptides over tanks and Broadsides for my anti-air/anti-armour.

Some people like to run a Commander with a target-lock and drone controller in a unit of Markerlight Drones, my personal opinion is that this isn't worth doing. Firstly, it's very expensive, and secondly, you're firing a butt-load of markerlights at only a single unit, which often isn't necessary.

If you start small (and you probably should), go with 4-5 PFs per 500 points. In a low-point game you can light that one target you want hit. At BS3, 4 Pathfinders manage around 2 markers per turn, so do the math. Remember that larger/more powerful units benefit from MLs the most.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Markerlights on Shas'ui are very bad value for points, all you get from having a Shas'ui is +1Ld, if you have a Fireblade in the unit already then this is wasted. Essentially you're paying 25 points for a Markerlight at BS3. Markerlight drones without a drone controller are also bad value, they are 12 points for a Markerlight as BS2.

While I agree with the shas'ui ML being terrible (because it's also heavy), I kinda disagree about the ML drones. I had the initial reaction you did until I read yakface's battle report. The idea is to use a Markerlight Ripple or Cascading Markerlights.

Fire spotters first to boost a FW squad's BS. The drones in that squad now have better bs and use their MLs to boost the next squad, which also has MLs and boosts the next squad. Even if the chain breaks down (as it inevitably will) you'll still be able to use those ML's effectively when they do hit, just plan ahead and make sure someone is there to use them (Kroot included). Also, these same effects can be applied during overwatch with supporting fire.

 BlueRift wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Markerlights on Shas'ui are very bad value for points, all you get from having a Shas'ui is +1Ld, if you have a Fireblade in the unit already then this is wasted. Essentially you're paying 25 points for a Markerlight at BS3. Markerlight drones without a drone controller are also bad value, they are 12 points for a Markerlight as BS2.

While I agree with the shas'ui ML being terrible (because it's also heavy), I kinda disagree about the ML drones. I had the initial reaction you did until I read yakface's battle report. The idea is to use a Markerlight Ripple or Cascading Markerlights.

Fire spotters first to boost a FW squad's BS. The drones in that squad now have better bs and use their MLs to boost the next squad, which also has MLs and boosts the next squad. Even if the chain breaks down (as it inevitably will) you'll still be able to use those ML's effectively when they do hit, just plan ahead and make sure someone is there to use them (Kroot included). Also, these same effects can be applied during overwatch with supporting fire.

So, why wouldn't you just do that with more Pathfinders? You use the exact same tactic but you'll have an even better chance of landing more Markerlights. Drones have the benefit of being T4 with a 4+ save I suppose, but Pathfinders are cheaper and have +1BS. Remember as well that this only works if you're focusing all your markerlights on a single enemy unit. It's great if you really need something dead but if there are multiple threats it's not going to be as effective.

Since drone controllers let drones fire at the users BS I'm thinking of running some with my commander and his bodyguard unit. A few BS5 marker drones should set up the next unit of crisis suits that will be focusing on the same unit.

That leaves my pathfinder units to help boost the riptide, or broadsides or whatever other hard hitters in the list.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
So, why wouldn't you just do that with more Pathfinders? You use the exact same tactic but you'll have an even better chance of landing more Markerlights. Drones have the benefit of being T4 with a 4+ save I suppose, but Pathfinders are cheaper and have +1BS. Remember as well that this only works if you're focusing all your markerlights on a single enemy unit. It's great if you really need something dead but if there are multiple threats it's not going to be as effective.

I'm not saying that cascading markerlights are the best option. But for a gunline, it could work and shouldn't be written off out of hand. Personally, I'll probably go with a SDT and/or a pathfinder team or two.

A couple of reasons why you want the Markerlights from your FW instead of one of the other "more efficient" options:

A.) Its from your troops. Making you less reliant on having to stack them from elsewhere.

B.) It's "hidden" behind X amount of Firewarrior bodies. With Pathfinders, every dead man is -1 Markerlight.


Just things to consider.

One problem not to be overlooked though, is that Marker Drones used to carry Networked Markerlights... Now they do not.

I thought you couldn't use a marker light to increase the BS of another marker light.

What about sniper drone teams, are they any good?

 Michi wrote:
What about sniper drone teams, are they any good?

They are ridiculously good for a number of reasons, and I really think people seem to be overlooking them.

They all have Longshot Pulse RIfles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire, here's why they're so good:

A) They combo with an Ethereal's aura for +1 shot at half range, this means every Sniper Drone gets 3 shots at 24". A full unit of 9 Drones is getting 27 shots hitting on 2+, that's around 22-23 hits on average, with Precision shots and Rending.

B) They are incredibly cheap for what they do; 15 points a model is an absolute steal.

C) Unlike the majority of the army, they do not rely on Markerlights to perform well since they are BS5.

D) Unlike most units in Tau Empire, they are majority T4, they also have Stealth, giving them a 3+ cover save behind Ruins/Aegis.

E) For 13 points you can buy an additional BS5 Markerlight.

Nice!!!!
lordofthegophers, why did you include the follwoing setup in your army list: Sniper Drone Team: 3 Sniper Drones, 3 Firesight Marksmen (84)?
Can't you get 3 drones per marksman? I am asking as this unit realy interests me and I am considering buying more boxes. Only have 1 so far.

 Michi wrote:
Nice!!!!
lordofthegophers, why did you include the follwoing setup in your army list: Sniper Drone Team: 3 Sniper Drones, 3 Firesight Marksmen (84)?
Can't you get 3 drones per marksman? I am asking as this unit realy interests me and I am considering buying more boxes. Only have 1 so far.

In the old codex, you would buy them in teams of 1 spotter and 3 sniper drones for 80pts each. In the new codex, the base team comes with 1 FSM and 3 Sniper Drones, then you can buy up to 2 additional Marksmen and 6 additional Sniper Drones. That said, you don't have to buy them in any particular mix. You could just as easily do 1 spotter and 9 drones if you wanted.

I used to use SDTs in the old codex, but wasn't impressed with them back then. They've definitely gotten better in this edition by getting BS5 and additional range, but I feel they're still an iffy choice in a lot of builds. Getting Stealth is nice, but they're still flamer / heavy flamer / Thunderfire bait. But aside from that, they compete with Hammerheads, Broadsides, and Skyrays for attention - though this is only an issue if you're using your HS slots for anti-horde, anti-armor, or anti-flyer work. If you've got those roles covered elsewhere in your list, you can use the HS slots for ML support, in which case SDTs are a good choice.

My preference is still for Tetras uber alles, though... 4 Tetras per FA slot, and you can potentially still buy Target Locks for them. The thing for me with MLs is that I don't want to overload one target with marks and not have any to throw at other targets... I want the flexibility to mark up 3+ targets per turn if I need to, or really overload one if that's what's required tactically. That makes me favor MSU style markerlight configurations over the 8 ML drone / Commander with DC and 2 ML drone configuration.

As far as ML drones in FW squads, it's a great way to spread them out. I'm not quite sold on the idea yet, but that's mostly because I want my support units to be supporty and my firepower units to be firepowery; I don't like to mix roles that drastically.

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 Michi wrote:
What about sniper drone teams, are they any good?

They are ridiculously good for a number of reasons, and I really think people seem to be overlooking them.

They all have Longshot Pulse RIfles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire, here's why they're so good:

A) They combo with an Ethereal's aura for +1 shot at half range, this means every Sniper Drone gets 3 shots at 24". A full unit of 9 Drones is getting 27 shots hitting on 2+, that's around 22-23 hits on average, with Precision shots and Rending.

B) They are incredibly cheap for what they do; 15 points a model is an absolute steal.

C) Unlike the majority of the army, they do not rely on Markerlights to perform well since they are BS5.

D) Unlike most units in Tau Empire, they are majority T4, they also have Stealth, giving them a 3+ cover save behind Ruins/Aegis.

E) For 13 points you can buy an additional BS5 Markerlight.

The problem with Sniper drones is twofold:

1) They take up a heavy support choice, which is one less for something else and also means they can't score.
2) Their main role is anti-infantry, something which Tau Troops choices do well enough already while being scoring.

Edit: Also, a full sniper drone squad is 148 pts, right? At rapid fire range, it will kill 3 to 5 MEQs, depending on your rending. At the same range, you can have 16.44 Firewarriors. Use a Cadre instead of an Ethereal, and you get 3.6 MEQs a turn. Once you get inside the Firewarriors rapid-fire, it gets even better. And FireWarriors are scoring.

I'm not saying Sniper Drones suck. They're tougher and better against MCs, but they give up scoring to do it and they eat up a valuable Heavy slot.

MadmanMSU wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:

 Michi wrote:
What about sniper drone teams, are they any good?

They are ridiculously good for a number of reasons, and I really think people seem to be overlooking them.

They all have Longshot Pulse RIfles: 48" SX AP5 Sniper, Rapid Fire, here's why they're so good:

A) They combo with an Ethereal's aura for +1 shot at half range, this means every Sniper Drone gets 3 shots at 24". A full unit of 9 Drones is getting 27 shots hitting on 2+, that's around 22-23 hits on average, with Precision shots and Rending.

B) They are incredibly cheap for what they do; 15 points a model is an absolute steal.

C) Unlike the majority of the army, they do not rely on Markerlights to perform well since they are BS5.

D) Unlike most units in Tau Empire, they are majority T4, they also have Stealth, giving them a 3+ cover save behind Ruins/Aegis.

E) For 13 points you can buy an additional BS5 Markerlight.

The problem with Sniper drones is twofold:

1) They take up a heavy support choice, which is one less for something else and also means they can't score.
2) Their main role is anti-infantry, something which Tau Troops choices do well enough already while being scoring.

Edit: Also, a full sniper drone squad is 148 pts, right? At rapid fire range, it will kill 3 to 5 MEQs, depending on your rending. At the same range, you can have 16.44 Firewarriors. Use a Cadre instead of an Ethereal, and you get 3.6 MEQs a turn. Once you get inside the Firewarriors rapid-fire, it gets even better. And FireWarriors are scoring.

I'm not saying Sniper Drones suck. They're tougher and better against MCs, but they give up scoring to do it and they eat up a valuable Heavy slot.

Let's do some math. We won't factor in the cost of the Etheral and assume he is boosting both units.

9 Sniper Drones is 135 points, which gets you a Fireblade and 8.3 Fire Warriors, I'll even assume a bit of good luck and round it up to 9 for the test.

This test assumes you're firing at TEQ with no Markerlight assistance.

9 Fire Warriors w/ Fireblade at 15-30": 20 shots, 11.6 hits, 1.3 wounds after saves.

9 Fire Warriors w/ Fireblade & Ethereal up to 15": 40 shots, 21.3 hits, 2.4 wounds after saves.

9 Sniper Drones at 24-48": 9 shots, 7.5 hits, 1.6 wounds after saves.

9 Sniper Drones w/ Ethereal at up to 24": 27 shots, 22.5 hits, 5 wounds after saves.


As you can see, at up to 24", Sniper Drones are vastly superior. Even with the Drones at 48" and the Fire Warriors at 15" they barely score an extra wound. To even compete with the Drones they need to rely on two HQ choices.

Yes, they take up a Heavy Support slot, but in all honesty the competition in HS isn't that hot. Tanks are meh, Broadsides are good but Riptides are better, and fill a similar role. Who's going to max out HS on 3 broadside teams? I myself run with two Sniper Drone teams and a Broadside Team.

This doesn't even take into account the 13 pt BS5 Markerlights that the Drone teams bring to the table.

Markerlights are key for victory, the longer you keep them alive the better. I'm a big fan of tetras myself, but they just took a nerf too w/ not having targeting arrays anymore. So now they hit on 4's as opposed to 3"s like before. I ran 4 before but including a couple marker drones on said BS5 characters or HQ's w/ DC's won't be a bad idea. A couple 6 man PF teams can do the trick as well is you can fine some nice 4+ cover ie: an aegis.

 Tauownz wrote:
Markerlights are key for victory, the longer you keep them alive the better. I'm a big fan of tetras myself, but they just took a nerf too w/ not having targeting arrays anymore. So now they hit on 4's as opposed to 3"s like before. I ran 4 before but including a couple marker drones on said BS5 characters or HQ's w/ DC's won't be a bad idea. A couple 6 man PF teams can do the trick as well is you can fine some nice 4+ cover ie: an aegis.

Another +1 for having Sniper Drone Teams. Majority T4, Stealth and 4+ save means these guys are gonna stick around for longer. Pathfinders die to a stiff breeze!

Thanks for the help! So basically if I want Markerlights, and I do want Markerlights, take Pathfinders instead.

Though, what are Tetras? I didn't see them in my Codex and I heard they were FW models that I didn't see on the FW website. Also, how do you get rules for FW models...?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-VEHICLES/TAU-PATHFINDER-TETRAS.html
The rules will be in one of the imperial armour books, I'm not sure which but you can probably find out from their descriptions.

Tetras are fast skimmers that shoot 4 markerlights a turn on the move w/ buitl in DP for a 4+ save at BS 3. You can have up to 4 in a squad and you can have targetlocks for split fire. Nice unit but a little pricey. I ran 4 before the new dex and really did well, now they got slightly nerfed. I think ideally the markerdrones at their point cost added to an HQ w/ hitting on his or hers BS will do the same if not better. Never ran marker drones before but I assume since they're drones they can move 6" and still fire their markerlight right?

Gun drone squad.

half guns and a half markers. put a commander with a drone controller in it obviously and now he's got a little more utility because lets face it.....how many bs5 markers do you need all firing at 1 squad? especially coupled with the ripple effect of pathfinders and marker drones and shas'ui and i think you might get a little more mileage than with just a squad full of markers

Let's do some math. We won't factor in the cost of the Etheral and assume he is boosting both units.

9 Sniper Drones is 135 points, which gets you a Fireblade and 8.3 Fire Warriors, I'll even assume a bit of good luck and round it up to 9 for the test.

This test assumes you're firing at TEQ with no Markerlight assistance.

9 Fire Warriors w/ Fireblade at 15-30": 20 shots, 11.6 hits, 1.3 wounds after saves.

9 Fire Warriors w/ Fireblade & Ethereal up to 15": 40 shots, 21.3 hits, 2.4 wounds after saves.

9 Sniper Drones at 24-48": 9 shots, 7.5 hits, 1.6 wounds after saves.

9 Sniper Drones w/ Ethereal at up to 24": 27 shots, 22.5 hits, 5 wounds after saves.

I believe some of this is wrong:

9 Fire warriors with 3 shots: 27 Shots. X 0.5 (BS3) 13.5 hits. X 0.66 (S 5 Vs T 4) 8.91 Wounds. X 0.33 (3+ save) = 2.94
Fire blade with 3 shots: 3 shots. X 0.83 (BS5) 2.50 hits. X 0.66 (S 5 Vs T 4) 1.65 Wounds. X 0.33 (3+ Save) = 0.54

Squad total: 3.48 Dead marines

9 Fire warriors with 4 shots: 36 Shots. X0.5 (BS3) 18 Hits. X 0.66 (S 5 Vs T 4) 11.88 Wounds. X 0.33 (3+ save) = 3.92 Dead marines
1 Fire Blade 4 shots: 4 Shots X 0.83 (BS 5) 3.33 Hits. X 0.66 (S 5 Vs T 4) 2.20 Wounds. X 0.33 (3+ save) = 0.73 Dead Marines

Squad total = 4.65 Dead Marines. Not 2.4

I also feel 90% confident that Storm of Fire won't work for the pulse sniper.

 Celtic Strike wrote:

I also feel 90% confident that Storm of Fire won't work for the pulse sniper.

Doesn't the rule say pulse weapons except pulse bombs? I think that includes even the Kroot rifle with "pulse ammo."

Yeah, but everyone thought that Storm bolters were going to be the best upgrade in a sternguard squad with special ammo. Since it said, 'All bolters' but they FAQ'd it to not be that way.

Same thing with Hurricane bolters.

I won't be surprised either way however.

Only the weapons in the Pulse Weapon section of the armory are affected. This means Pulse Pistols, Pulse Carbines, Pulse Rifles, Pulse Long Rifles, and Pulse Bombs. However, the Ethereal special ability specifically excludes Pulse Bombs, so that just leaves the other four. Kroot Rifles and Burst Cannons are not Pulse Weapons per the armory.

I still feel Tetras are the way to go, since they're mobile MLs with a built in cover save, and are cheaper per ML than ML drones in a drone squadron. With Target Locks, you're not overloading hits on one unit if you don't need to - 2 ML hits is enough to remove cover for that S8 AP3 large blast you're throwing downrange. Sure there's times when you want to have a lot of marks on one unit, but more often than not 2-3 will do the job just fine. That's why I'm leery at 12 ML Drones with a BS5 commander and Drone Controller; that's about 200+ points to put about 10 ML hits on a single unit. Serious overkill IMO. Better to spend those 200+ points on 4 Tetras, and use them to slap 2 ML hits on up to 4 units per turn. Far more flexible and more efficient in most circumstances.

Wait, can marker lights now be used to add more markerlights>

Veskrashen wrote:
Only the weapons in the Pulse Weapon section of the armory are affected. This means Pulse Pistols, Pulse Carbines, Pulse Rifles, Pulse Long Rifles, and Pulse Bombs. However, the Ethereal special ability specifically excludes Pulse Bombs, so that just leaves the other four. Kroot Rifles and Burst Cannons are not Pulse Weapons per the armory.

The Ethereal special ability specifically includes Kroot Rifles firing Pulse rounds.

All I'm saying. GW has a way of changing things that seemed very obvious to begin with I.E Storm bolters and changing the rule to not include them. Sternguard.

Random. words.