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I am thinking of running one with these upgrades he is pretty pricey though...

Early warning override
Velocity tracker
Dual missile pods
Iridium battlesuit
Puretide chip
Onegar gauntlet
Multi spectrum sensor suite

All together he is sittin at 210 which is kind of expensive but he is anchoring a missileside squad. What if anything should I cut? Should also note that the squad will be up on a landing pad

As you said, that's a whole load of points for something attached to a missileside squad. TBH I wouldn't bother anchoring a commander to the missilesides, but if you have to then it's more a case of what you have to keep than what you cut. Most of that, while useful in certain circumstances, is generally going to be a waste of points. For example:
Onegar gauntlet: You don't want them in combat. Wasted points.
Iridium battlesuit: If you want defence, go for shield drones. More wasted points.
Velocity tracker and Early Warning override: It only has 2 shots per turn! Wasted points.
Missile Pods: You're going to be boosting the missilesides, and thus be unable to fire. Twin-linked is especially unnecessary given that you're already BS5.

You can easily stand to knock out the Iridium battlesuit and Onegar gauntlet. Probably the Puretide chip as well. If he's going to be sitting at the back then he shouldn't be getting into combats where a single AP1 attack is more useful, and the 2+ save is mightily expensive when you consider he's sitting in a squad that has 2+ saves already.
I can see Tank Hunter or Monster Hunter being useful, so that's optional, but personally I'd skip it.

It seems like you may not be aware... the Early Warning Override and Velocity Tracker (as well as the Puretide chip) will *only* apply to the Commander. They won't apply to the Broadsides too. With that in mind, it's an awfully expensive way to basically add another firing model to the squad, you might as well go with a smaller second unit.

Good ideas, you seem to think I have no understanding of Tau battle gear though.

Some explanations are in order I guess...

My local scene is going csm and Necron and there are several player who also like drop pods. So the onegar gauntlet and iridium armour could be very useful if someone pops out a squad with heavy melta and power fist sargeant or a dreadnought.

I have been leaning towards interceptor for my missilesides but am thinking of going the skyfire route in which case I would like to at least make an attempt to kill a heldrake before it roasts my fire warriors which is why I like having 4 missile shots (taking 2missile pods not 1 twin linked) at str 7 that can intercept the flyers at bs 5. He can't fire in the normal shooting round thanks to the sensor suite anyway so why not juice up the commander. That's if I need them to ignore cover if not the commander fires away with the squad. If I am going to be firingat flyers i don't want them getting jink saves.

Unlike nearly every tau player out there I won't be relying on markerlights because I don't run mono armies anymore and don't want to dump points into something that doesn't help the entire force.

That all being said I could drop the iridium armour but not sure about the rest

You complain about markerlights not helping the rest of the army in favour of pimping a commander when the reason is to help the entire army?

wat?

 Blaggard wrote:
You complain about markerlights not helping the rest of the army in favour of pimping a commander when the reason is to help the entire army?

wat?

I dont have to roll to hit to get the benefits for the missile sides. Outside of the commander and missile sides and 1-2 units of fire warriors won't be taking a whole lot of things like regular suits and riptides. Was trying to say that the Commander is pimped out and expensive because he is there to help the missilesides.I could cut half of his gear and add in some pathfinders but then I would have to rely on them hitting with their markerlights.

Please correct me if I am wrong but Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful now correct?

If so then they are unable to shoot at fliers no matter how many markerlights are used. (unless you give them the skyfire upgrade)

SaganGree wrote:
Please correct me if I am wrong but Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful now correct?

If so then they are unable to shoot at fliers no matter how many markerlights are used. (unless you give them the skyfire upgrade)

No and even if so why would SNP matter against flyers? SNP just stops overwatch no?

Thought it killed snapfire for some reason... oh well... thats what too little sleep does to you

valace2 wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
You complain about markerlights not helping the rest of the army in favour of pimping a commander when the reason is to help the entire army?

wat?

I dont have to roll to hit to get the benefits for the missile sides. Outside of the commander and missile sides and 1-2 units of fire warriors won't be taking a whole lot of things like regular suits and riptides. Was trying to say that the Commander is pimped out and expensive because he is there to help the missilesides.I could cut half of his gear and add in some pathfinders but then I would have to rely on them hitting with their markerlights.

That state of mind is really not very good. Markerlights are great, and will really help boost your army's effectiveness. 90 points of pathfinders is going to give you 4 markerlight hits, which will bring your broadsides to BS5 and ignore cover. That's so much better than your 120 some odd points commander. Not to mention that your pathfinders can give their markerlight hits to any other unit, while your bloated commander is only going to buff his squad.

Like others have said, giving him a missile pod is pointless, since in order for the multi spectrum suit to work he has to not fire. I also agree that the onegar gauntlet is silly, and shield drones are better than the iridium. Also, the early warning override and velocity tracker only works for the commander, it does not help out the entire unit.

It's a good idea but poor execution. This idea is better used with crisis suits, along with a drone controller and a crap ton of gun drones (so they are BS5).

valace2 wrote:
Good ideas, you seem to think I have no understanding of Tau battle gear though.

Gee, thanks. I've been reading the codex for 3 days straight, and I suppose it's possible you've read it for 4 days straight but really, I doubt you have very much more understanding than me.

Some explanations are in order I guess...

Yup.

My local scene is going csm and Necron and there are several player who also like drop pods. So the onegar gauntlet and iridium armour could be very useful if someone pops out a squad with heavy melta and power fist sargeant or a dreadnought.

Or easier, just give the Missilesides interceptor. Problem solved.

I have been leaning towards interceptor for my missilesides but am thinking of going the skyfire route in which case I would like to at least make an attempt to kill a heldrake before it roasts my fire warriors which is why I like having 4 missile shots (taking 2missile pods not 1 twin linked) at str 7 that can intercept the flyers at bs 5. He can't fire in the normal shooting round thanks to the sensor suite anyway so why not juice up the commander. That's if I need them to ignore cover if not the commander fires away with the squad. If I am going to be firingat flyers i don't want them getting jink saves.

You've got missilesides, right? If they're properly equipped that means you've got 6 missiles each, plus 4 from drones (speaking of which, why doesn't the commander have a drone controller?) which means a total of 30 missiles between them. 5 hit, and sure, that won't down the flyer, but it's probably going to do a hull point or two, after which your other stuff can shoot it down. Plus, it can't jink due to you ignoring cover saves. Skyfire is nice, but expensive and not needed when you think that interceptor is cheaper and solves problems other than this lone one.

Unlike nearly every tau player out there I won't be relying on markerlights because I don't run mono armies anymore and don't want to dump points into something that doesn't help the entire force.

Uh... right. So you've decided not to use markerlights because while you could spend 66 points to reliably solve a problem, you've decided it'd be more fun to spend one to two hundred and waste an HQ slot. Fair enough, can't argue with you there...

That all being said I could drop the iridium armour but not sure about the rest

Here, let me help you with your conclusion.

[b]If he was being truthful, valace2 would write:
Yeah, I asked you for help but actually I just wanted to be told that I was right so now that I'm being told to drop everything I've decided to drop one thing and say that's enough.

Don't worry, I've been in that situation before and it's hard to get out of. You want a super-awesome crisis commander in your missileside squad and you're now trying to prove to the universe that you're right. Trust me, I tried arguing with the world that Vespids were competitive. It won't get you anywhere, and TBH I don't mind if you use this crisis suit. Just don't tell me how good it is.

 Super Ready wrote:

the Early Warning Override and Velocity Tracker (as well as the Puretide chip) will *only* apply to the Commander.

If one model in unit has Tank Hunter or Monster hunter, the whole unit benefits from it.

Therefore a Commander with Puretide chip will give Tank/Monster hunter to whatever unit he joins.

Commander, Puretide, C&C, Multi-Spectrum , 135 Points.

However that's only if you're using him as an ally. If Tau are your main force then you'll have markerlights that do those things better and more flexibly.

Ooh, so they do... thanks for pointing that out, that's going to come in handy.

Regarding Skyfire/Interceptor - I can see the use of giving them both to the Commander, particularly against Heldrakes. The issue of whether to go Interceptor or Skyfire on the 'sides themselves is already being discussed elsewhere, but to sum up - if you expect to face flyers, reliable Skyfire is better. Interceptor is better if you're expecting to face a lot of reserves like Drop Pods and their ilk.

Take velocity tracker off, and replace it with a c&C node. You kinda said that the only time you commander is going to be shooting iswhen things come in because your going to be boosting the other guys. Might as well boost em to the fullest for 5 less points when you aren't going to be shooting at flyers with him anyways. I would also suggest losing the onager because as cool as it seems ill take my 4 S5 attacks you gotta remember, you get to shoot them at least once before they get to you. So when you TL your TL guns i feel like they arent likely to survive(as long as the way im assuming that rule works is correct) but i think you've definately got a few too many points wrapped up in this HQ of yours

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Take velocity tracker off, and replace it with a c&C node.

Missilesides already have twinlinked though iirc. so c&c would be pointless if that was what he was using the babysitter'o for.


iv been debating the babysitter and mark'o load outs and feel its just way to expensive for something that wont be shooting.

Going to respond more in depth when I get off the road, but I will say quite the contrary I don't know everything and have been corrected several times since the codex came out.

I do know that unlike some signature systems support systems only affect the model who carries it.

An a drone controller wouldnt help missile drones, so there isn't any point to take one.

I was planning to make a commander with a drone controller herding a maxed drone squad. Mostly with gun drones but some markerlights thrown in there as well. It would be a lot of relatively cheap BS5 fire.

My commander runs the following and runs around 195pts

Plasma Rifle
Missile Pod
Velocity Tracker
Stim Injectors
Iridium Battlesuit
Puretide Chip
Onager Gauntlet (this option usually gets dropped if something more appealing comes along, but it has saved my bacon a few times)
Occasionally The neuroweb jammer if I have points floating around after building the list.

He hangs with 3x crisis with TL MP, PR.

With the T5 & 2+ from iridium and FNP from the stims he is a beast to take down in shooting. With the Velocity tracker he can apply BS5 Tankhunting shots to flyers and his squad can provide assistance with TL Snap Shots. (With a skyray in the list I can usually depend on markerlight support if I need to pick up the spare on a flier. The plasmarifles on him and his friends allow for the unit to engage terminators and monstrous creatures with ease (monster hunter from the chip makes this pretty solid). The onager gauntlet can allow for me to walk away from combat with some pretty scary HQ's that would otherwise be a death sentence.

This loadout is pretty pricey but the commander can contribute to the fight vs many different foes. (pretty much everything except AV 14 and hordes).

 Thaylen wrote:
My commander runs the following and runs around 195pts

Plasma Rifle
Missile Pod
Velocity Tracker
Stim Injectors
Iridium Battlesuit
Puretide Chip
Onager Gauntlet (this option usually gets dropped if something more appealing comes along, but it has saved my bacon a few times)
Occasionally The neuroweb jammer if I have points floating around after building the list.

He hangs with 3x crisis with TL MP, PR.

With the T5 & 2+ from iridium and FNP from the stims he is a beast to take down in shooting. With the Velocity tracker he can apply BS5 Tankhunting shots to flyers and his squad can provide assistance with TL Snap Shots. (With a skyray in the list I can usually depend on markerlight support if I need to pick up the spare on a flier. The plasmarifles on him and his friends allow for the unit to engage terminators and monstrous creatures with ease (monster hunter from the chip makes this pretty solid). The onager gauntlet can allow for me to walk away from combat with some pretty scary HQ's that would otherwise be a death sentence.

This loadout is pretty pricey but the commander can contribute to the fight vs many different foes. (pretty much everything except AV 14 and hordes).

Wow, you got everything on there, didn't you? With regards to survivability, you might want to give him some shield drones for the invuln. I know he has FNP, but having that invuln is indispensable. I would say give him a shield gen, but you don't have the room.

My issue with the whole skyfire thing is that all he has is 2 Str7 shots and a Str6. Even at BS5, that's not going to do much. Sure you could take all HPs off but you won't. Even if your facing orks, you need two 3's and a 4 to kill it, and that's a best case scenario. If he has tank hunter, then its better but he is still going to have a hard time taking down real flyers, like helldrakes or vendettas. Not to mention their jink.

 Desubot wrote:

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Take velocity tracker off, and replace it with a c&C node.

Missilesides already have twinlinked though iirc. so c&c would be pointless if that was what he was using the babysitter'o for.


iv been debating the babysitter and mark'o load outs and feel its just way to expensive for something that wont be shooting.

Additional TL is mainly for the Missile Drones. Spend 68 points for 12 shots and 4 hits (17 PPH), then spend 15pts for 6.67 hits (12.4 PPH total).

 p_gray99 wrote:
As you said, that's a whole load of points for something attached to a missileside squad. TBH I wouldn't bother anchoring a commander to the missilesides, but if you have to then it's more a case of what you have to keep than what you cut. Most of that, while useful in certain circumstances, is generally going to be a waste of points. For example:
Onegar gauntlet: You don't want them in combat. Wasted points.

You don't want them in combat... hmmm have you always had things go your way? An what happens if they do end up in combat? They die, horribly especially if there is a power claw or power fist in the squad. Wasted 5 points, nope I will keep it.

 p_gray99 wrote:
Iridium battlesuit: If you want defence, go for shield drones. More wasted points.

Shield drones, what part of being deployed up on a landing pad did you not get? Last time I checked the Landing Pad gave you a 4+ invuln so if anything maybe I would take gun drones for some extra shots but like I said I wanted to keep the points down. As for the battlesuit, what happens if my small squad gets hit by a lascannon? Or a melta vet squad in a drop pod? Or how about a frikin Riptide overcharging his Ion gun? T5 will allow the commander to take the hit and in some of those circumstances like the lascannon or melta gun laugh it off. So I kinda like the battlesuit.

 p_gray99 wrote:
Velocity tracker and Early Warning override: It only has 2 shots per turn! Wasted points.

Again read the darn post, I said dual missile pods as in 2 as in not twin linked as in 4 shots. Would you argue against someone using a quad gun, because other than rerolls which he doesn't necessarily need at BS5 thats what he is. So if a quad gun is a bad bet I will drop interceptor and skyfire.

 p_gray99 wrote:
Missile Pods: You're going to be boosting the missilesides, and thus be unable to fire. Twin-linked is especially unnecessary given that you're already BS5.

1. I don't have to buff the squad unless I absolutely have to, if I have orc bikers or eldar pathfinders or marine scouts you know those annoying bastards with the 2+ cover save the commander doesn't need to shoot. I could make my piece with the commander losing his 4 shots if I could kill a bunch of 2+ cover saving scouts.

2. The gun isn't twin linked as he is buying 2 seperate pods and nothing says he can't buy two if he pays full price, so yea if I need the no cover I have it, otherwise I get 4 more missile shots.

now on to your 2nd post...

 p_gray99 wrote:
Or easier, just give the Missilesides interceptor. Problem solved.

oh really its that simple? Actually having a tough time with this one, but the puretide chip is making me rethink it my original instinct was to go with Interceptor but I changed it.

 p_gray99 wrote:
You've got missilesides, right? If they're properly equipped that means you've got 6 missiles each, plus 4 from drones (speaking of which, why doesn't the commander have a drone controller?) which means a total of 30 missiles between them. 5 hit, and sure, that won't down the flyer, but it's probably going to do a hull point or two, after which your other stuff can shoot it down. Plus, it can't jink due to you ignoring cover saves. Skyfire is nice, but expensive and not needed when you think that interceptor is cheaper and solves problems other than this lone one.

6 missiles? Check again your math is off. 4 for the SMS, 4 for the high yield missile pod. As I said in a different post drone controllers don't help missile pods so that would be what you called wasted points. If a Heldrake or Doom Scythe comes in and I can't down it with 12 Str7 and 12 Str5(which won't hurt the drake)missiles then I can pretty much say buh bye to a big part of my army. If I drop the armour like you suggested it would probably be my missilesides. If I split my options let the commander with his BS5 4 Str7 shots go first when they come on, while he is waiting until the next turn to shoot his squad benefits from his wargear.

 p_gray99 wrote:
Uh... right. So you've decided not to use markerlights because while you could spend 66 points to reliably solve a problem, you've decided it'd be more fun to spend one to two hundred and waste an HQ slot. Fair enough, can't argue with you there...

Wasted an HQ? How so? Does the commander have to hit anything to remove cover? Or roll anything to give the squad Tank Hunter while they are trying to shoot down those pesky Necron and CSM flyers?

Question? How exactly do you hit flyers with markerlights? Don't they hit at BS1 LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE?

What if they miss?

Yea right if I sounded a bit snarky maybe just maybe it was because I asked for advice and what I got from the first two posts were just cut everything out, and this was the best advice right here...

 p_gray99 wrote:
TBH I wouldn't bother anchoring a commander to the missilesides, but if you have to then it's more a case of what you have to keep than what you cut. Most of that, while useful in certain circumstances, is generally going to be a waste of points.

Thanks for your very useful help.

*sigh*
Somehow I knew I would get a scathing response. But, oh well. Scathe away.

valace2 wrote:
You don't want them in combat... hmmm have you always had things go your way? And what happens if they do end up in combat? They die, horribly especially if there is a power claw or power fist in the squad. Wasted 5 points, nope I will keep it.

One S10 attack is quite nice for 5 points, but you have to remember a few things. 1) You're tau in combat, and despite your good saves you can expect at the very least to be stuck in combat until a better combat unit turns up. But most things that charge you will be well equipped for combat, and will quite happily take that one kill before taking out the broadsides with ease. You're relying on them only having one good combat guy, and your attack hitting and wounding, and them not having an invuln. I know I don't play normal armies, but if my DE wyches or Incubi charged you, that would do absolutely nothing against me. TBH, you'd probably be better off using your normal attacks.

Shield drones, what part of being deployed up on a landing pad did you not get? Last time I checked the Landing Pad gave you a 4+ invuln so if anything maybe I would take gun drones for some extra shots but like I said I wanted to keep the points down. As for the battlesuit, what happens if my small squad gets hit by a lascannon? Or a melta vet squad in a drop pod? Or how about a frikin Riptide overcharging his Ion gun? T5 will allow the commander to take the hit and in some of those circumstances like the lascannon or melta gun laugh it off. So I kinda like the battlesuit.

Sorry, missed that you were on a landing pad, my bad. But that aside, look at the part I highlighted. You want to keep points down, so you decided it'd be a great idea to take a high-cost upgrade that you'll barely use. Have your 'o at the front, and LoS anything AP2 or that you think the commander doesn't like very much.

Again read the darn post, I said dual missile pods as in 2 as in not twin linked as in 4 shots. Would you argue against someone using a quad gun, because other than rerolls which he doesn't necessarily need at BS5 thats what he is. So if a quad gun is a bad bet I will drop interceptor and skyfire.

Again, didn't read the darn codex! Can't take 2 of a weapon, it automatically twin-links it. And anyway, he won't fire those 2 shots because he's giving the missilesides ignores cover. Which leads me on to...

1. I don't have to buff the squad unless I absolutely have to, if I have orc bikers or eldar pathfinders or marine scouts you know those annoying bastards with the 2+ cover save the commander doesn't need to shoot. I could make my piece with the commander losing his 2 (fix'd) shots if I could kill a bunch of 2+ cover saving scouts.

Uh... The loadout you've got currently, it's a 210-point commander with 2 twin-linked S7 shots. Sounds like a great deal to me! The only way it'd ever come close to being useful is with ignores cover, which 2 markerlights can do for you anyway.

2. The gun isn't twin linked as he is buying 2 separate pods and nothing says he can't buy two if he pays full price, so yea if I need the no cover I have it, otherwise I get 4 more missile shots.

Now, I have to give it to you, you're extremely persistent. I'm normally extremely stubborn about being right with rules, and I almost always am. But I did have to go and check the codex here, so congrats.

Codex:
Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single version, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type).

Now, I'll admit that it's perfectly possible to make that mistake, it does look at first glance like you can take 2 of them or a twin-linked version. But it saying

two weapons counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type

Makes it seem reasonably clear that it's saying "If you take 2 of the weapon, they cound as a single twin-linked version." Argue over that in the You Make Da Call section if you like, but that's what it says and that's what it means. It's RAW [b]and RAI.

oh really its that simple? Actually having a tough time with this one, but the puretide chip is making me rethink it my original instinct was to go with Interceptor but I changed it.

Having a tough time? You mean that you're struggling to think of a reason that I might be wrong? Doesn't that kinda give you the answer of whether I'm wrong?
To answer your question, yes, it really is that simple. If a drop-pod drops down right next to you, go shoot the dread that walks out. That's what interceptor is for. It's far more useful than skyfire because it's a good counter to flyers as well as this.

6 missiles? Check again your math is off. 4 for the SMS, 4 for the high yield missile pod. As I said in a different post drone controllers don't help missile pods so that would be what you called wasted points. If a Heldrake or Doom Scythe comes in and I can't down it with 12 Str7 and 12 Str5(which won't hurt the drake)missiles then I can pretty much say buh bye to a big part of my army. If I drop the armour like you suggested it would probably be my missilesides. If I split my options let the commander with his BS5 4 Str7 shots go first when they come on, while he is waiting until the next turn to shoot his squad benefits from his wargear.

Fair enough, 8 missiles each. Also, fair enough on not having a drone controller. But skyfire seems like a bad option on your missilesides, still... but whatever. Just don't have it on your commander, it's a terrible option. Really, just don't.

Wasted an HQ? How so? Does the commander have to hit anything to remove cover? Or roll anything to give the squad Tank Hunter while they are trying to shoot down those pesky Necron and CSM flyers?

I mean it's a waste of an HQ because you could be giving massive buffs to a gunline for 50pts, or going out with a fusion gun which would probably be cheaper and more efficient anti-tank.

Question? How exactly do you hit flyers with markerlights? Don't they hit at BS1 LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE?

Yup, they do. So 6 Pathfinders will give you 1 markerlight hit. Which means you'll get quite a few hits with those missiles, still. And it's fine for you if you don't strip their cover, it'll get them to jink which means they've wasted a turn and probably put themselves into a bad position (given that they have to move each turn and can't turn very easily etc.)

What if they miss?

Don't tell me I just read that right. This is a game of dice. Sometimes you miss. Sure, you could be unlucky and do nothing with the 66 points, which would be a shame, alternatively, you could get 6 hits and annihilate whatever enemy unit you want to annihilate. That's how 40k works.

Yea right if I sounded a bit snarky maybe just maybe it was because I asked for advice and what I got from the first two posts were just cut everything out, and this was the best advice right here...

That's probably because it's good advice. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any worse.

 p_gray99 wrote:
TBH I wouldn't bother anchoring a commander to the missilesides, but if you have to then it's more a case of what you have to keep than what you cut. Most of that, while useful in certain circumstances, is generally going to be a waste of points.

Thanks for your very useful help.

No problem.
Look, you asked for advice. We gave advice. Now you're saying you don't like it. Fine, don't follow it. Just don't come back at us complaining about how it's bad advice because you don't like it.