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2013/04/11 21:12:17
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
As for the reasoning GW took down their Facebook page, I think we can only speculate. Maybe it was a contributing factor, but then again maybe it wasn't.
GW took down their Facebook page less than 24 hours that they posted a dumb justification as to why they felt they should try to claim "Space Marines" as their sole property in the whole world.
Coincidences happen - that was not one.
2013/04/11 21:21:17
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Same reason they disable comments on all their youtube videos. GW runs away when faced with criticism, so much in fact, that they would sooner prefer to lose customers and money then be accountable for their actions.
GW should not be creating barriers to use their products, instead of uniting people they are alienating and isolating people.
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
2013/04/11 21:53:00
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
I am a long time GW supporter, some even call me "fanboy" and I dont understand all the hate towards them. There are things that could be better, things they messed up but after all I dont feel like all the gak throwing is indicated. Most of the so called critique I have read is just no critique but stupid comments. There are some people who have written good thought out points but with all those pointless comments flooding those threads in no time I barely read them anymore.
Boss, Raglun´z mob ´az redda trouserz dan uz!
Too bad, da mob got stinky about ... Dakka Gallery
2013/04/11 22:17:32
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
bkiker wrote: I'm sorry that my statement that I made about myself somehow offended you.
What makes you think I was offended? You noted how you personally "keep things in perspective", and I asked the question "What makes you think the people arguing are any different?". Perhaps I was a bit too confrontational, but really, if you read that I was offended or that my questions was aggressive toward you, that is YOU inferring that, not me implying it.
The fact you made the "personal statement", to me, inferred that you think the people you refer to somehow don't keep things in perspective in much the same way, which IMO is false (if you were trying to imply something different, my apologies, however the way I read it you were either making the statement for no apparent reason or for the reason that you think the statement needs to be made).
What "legitimate discussions" are out there generally devolve into shouting matches and a general sense of hostility. I'll use your comment as an example. While I'm fine if you disagree with me and your point about "GW bashing increasing no more than "legitimate discussions" may be valid. You open, however, in a rather hostile manner causing me to infer, "How DARE YOU think you're different or better!" Basically, attacking a statement that I made about my own way of thinking. No where in that statement did I say "I must be the only one that has a complex life" or "No one keeps 40k balanced with their family life, real life, etc." I tried to use as many personal pronouns and adverbs as I could in order to make it clear that I was talking about myself. "I guess for mepersonallyI...". This causes me to shut down and not even hear if you have a valid argument or not.
This is the internet, you shouldn't be trying to infer tone unless it is blatantly obvious that a tone is implied. When I wrote what I wrote, there was no sense of "How DARE YOU" at all. If I were to apply a tone to my question, it would be a slightly raised tone (not volume) with an inflection, as if someone had made a comment at which I didn't understand why they made the comment (you) and I gently query why they think anyone else is different.
Now, maybe I incorrectly inferred the reasoning behind your own post, when I read it. Lets follow my logic train which lead me to my reply. I read your thing and thought "he is stating his personal feeling" to which my conclusion is "he is stating his personal feeling because he feels it needs to be stated (else he is crazy and stating it for no reason )". Now maybe my logical leap to thinking that your reasoning for making your personal statement implied that you thought other people didn't keep things in perspective was incorrect, I admit that, but none the less my conclusion did not come from inferring any tone from your post and I don't think you should attempt to infer tone from my post.
Now, if you think what I posted is hostile or attacking of your statement (note, I attacked the inferred premise, not the statement), I can understand why you think there's a lot of GW "bashing". I think you're wrong, and I think you're mistaking "discussion" for "attacking/hostility/bashing/etc". Not to say there isn't some hostility in many comments and sometimes it is blatantly obvious, but again, this is the internet, trying to infer tone is not worth doing and among some hostility, there's plenty of legitimate discussion. If you have a problem with the hostility itself, well IMO that has not increased disproportionately to the actual legitimate discussion.
The point of my post, if you had read the words for what they were instead of inferring a tone, was that you are doing the exact same thing as people who "bash" GW, you are here, on a forum, talking about your hobby (and in this case talking about how other people perceive that hobby).
That is not leaps and bounds different to what other people are doing when arguing over GW's various perceived faults, or do you disagree? If you disagree, is it purely from the perceived tone that you are reading when you read peoples' posts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/11 22:22:31
2013/04/11 22:23:33
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
As for the reasoning GW took down their Facebook page, I think we can only speculate. Maybe it was a contributing factor, but then again maybe it wasn't.
GW took down their Facebook page less than 24 hours that they posted a dumb justification as to why they felt they should try to claim "Space Marines" as their sole property in the whole world.
Coincidences happen - that was not one.
This.
GW took their ball home and ran off. You see other companies when faced with PR disasters actually try to address the issue and talk to the press. GW don't. The Pope talks to the press. Not GW. Let that one sink in.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2013/04/11 22:30:58
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Crimson wrote: I certainly don't think that GW is perfect, far from it. It just seems to me that people's reactions are totally out of proportion, and totally disconnected from the reality of how big companies generally behave. Most things many here see as a horrible outrage are mildly annoying at most to me.
^ This.
I have grown very weary of the constant complaining as if GW is as evil as the likes of the Umbrella Corporation. They are not perfect and they've made some mistakes, not unlike nearly every company in every type of industry.
They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
2013/04/11 22:40:06
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
I've been collecting since before the screw tops. About 90% of the paints I had before the screw tops still work fine. I'd say less than 50% of my screw top and later ones have survived. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's straight fact the paint pots introduced way back then and all pots since are vastly inferior for keeping your paint from drying or changing consistency.
2013/04/11 22:44:32
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Crimson wrote: I certainly don't think that GW is perfect, far from it. It just seems to me that people's reactions are totally out of proportion, and totally disconnected from the reality of how big companies generally behave. Most things many here see as a horrible outrage are mildly annoying at most to me.
^ This.
I have grown very weary of the constant complaining as if GW is as evil as the likes of the Umbrella Corporation. They are not perfect and they've made some mistakes, not unlike nearly every company in every type of industry.
But unlike every other company in every other industry as you so eloquently put it, GW, in their own eyes are infallible. As already stated, they disable Youtube comments, wall themselves up against the media and delete their Facebook page when they cannot handle the fact that they're wrong and need to make a grovelling apology to their customer base whom they treat like a big steaming pile of dog gak on the bottom of their shiny shoes.
Other than the aforementioned TSR (probably in this thread, they're all blending into one). I have not seen a company (in any industry) at war with its customer base like GW is. The long term players are a very dangerous group to piss off, GW is dying a death of a thousand cuts. It is a analog clock in the digital age. GW is eventually going to die with a whimper and not a bang, and all the while the White Knights will defend the keep and honour of sweet lady GW's corpse.
GW should look to themselves to see what is happening to them. This fantastic article shows just how apt that analogy is. GW IS the IOM, and they're going to end up the same way eventually.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2013/04/11 22:50:40
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Ravenous D wrote:Same reason they disable comments on all their youtube videos. GW runs away when faced with criticism, so much in fact, that they would sooner prefer to lose customers and money then be accountable for their actions.
GW should not be creating barriers to use their products, instead of uniting people they are alienating and isolating people.
I've watched a lot of the GW videos and I'm wondering what is there to comment on them. To me, their videos are basically commercials. Why do I want to write a comment on a commercial?
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
bkiker wrote: I'm sorry that my statement that I made about myself somehow offended you.
What makes you think I was offended? You noted how you personally "keep things in perspective", and I asked the question "What makes you think the people arguing are any different?". Perhaps I was a bit too confrontational, but really, if you read that I was offended or that my questions was aggressive toward you, that is YOU inferring that, not me implying it.
The fact you made the "personal statement", to me, inferred that you think the people you refer to somehow don't keep things in perspective in much the same way, which IMO is false (if you were trying to imply something different, my apologies, however the way I read it you were either making the statement for no apparent reason or for the reason that you think the statement needs to be made).
What "legitimate discussions" are out there generally devolve into shouting matches and a general sense of hostility. I'll use your comment as an example. While I'm fine if you disagree with me and your point about "GW bashing increasing no more than "legitimate discussions" may be valid. You open, however, in a rather hostile manner causing me to infer, "How DARE YOU think you're different or better!" Basically, attacking a statement that I made about my own way of thinking. No where in that statement did I say "I must be the only one that has a complex life" or "No one keeps 40k balanced with their family life, real life, etc." I tried to use as many personal pronouns and adverbs as I could in order to make it clear that I was talking about myself. "I guess for mepersonallyI...". This causes me to shut down and not even hear if you have a valid argument or not.
This is the internet, you shouldn't be trying to infer tone unless it is blatantly obvious that a tone is implied. When I wrote what I wrote, there was no sense of "How DARE YOU" at all. If I were to apply a tone to my question, it would be a slightly raised tone (not volume) with an inflection, as if someone had made a comment at which I didn't understand why they made the comment (you) and I gently query why they think anyone else is different.
Now, maybe I incorrectly inferred the reasoning behind your own post, when I read it. Lets follow my logic train which lead me to my reply. I read your thing and thought "he is stating his personal feeling" to which my conclusion is "he is stating his personal feeling because he feels it needs to be stated (else he is crazy and stating it for no reason )". Now maybe my logical leap to thinking that your reasoning for making your personal statement implied that you thought other people didn't keep things in perspective was incorrect, I admit that, but none the less my conclusion did not come from inferring any tone from your post and I don't think you should attempt to infer tone from my post.
Now, if you think what I posted is hostile or attacking of your statement (note, I attacked the inferred premise, not the statement), I can understand why you think there's a lot of GW "bashing". I think you're wrong, and I think you're mistaking "discussion" for "attacking/hostility/bashing/etc". Not to say there isn't some hostility in many comments and sometimes it is blatantly obvious, but again, this is the internet, trying to infer tone is not worth doing and among some hostility, there's plenty of legitimate discussion. If you have a problem with the hostility itself, well IMO that has not increased disproportionately to the actual legitimate discussion.
The point of my post, if you had read the words for what they were instead of inferring a tone, was that you are doing the exact same thing as people who "bash" GW, you are here, on a forum, talking about your hobby (and in this case talking about how other people perceive that hobby).
That is not leaps and bounds different to what other people are doing when arguing over GW's various perceived faults, or do you disagree? If you disagree, is it purely from the perceived tone that you are reading when you read peoples' posts?
This was a nice response, and thought provoking. You're probably right that I inferred the wrong message (the great draw back of non-verbal communication). Presented as is, your comment causes me to take a moment and think. It may not change my mind on my original post or argument about the community, but it does give me food for thought.
Even while I'm on dialysis, the Fallen must be hunted. Check out my blog:
http://pensacolawarhammer.wordpress.com/
2013/04/11 22:51:10
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Crimson wrote: I certainly don't think that GW is perfect, far from it. It just seems to me that people's reactions are totally out of proportion, and totally disconnected from the reality of how big companies generally behave. Most things many here see as a horrible outrage are mildly annoying at most to me.
^ This.
I have grown very weary of the constant complaining as if GW is as evil as the likes of the Umbrella Corporation. They are not perfect and they've made some mistakes, not unlike nearly every company in every type of industry.
They're not evil, they're just stupid.
If they operated as they do in a more competitive sector (or continue to do so as this sector gets more competitive) then they'd vanish without trace in short order.
As a corporation, they've lucked out with an extremely popular product, and then ineptly fumbled about, quite spectacularly failing to exploit that product in the right way, while simultaneously managing to alienate what must have qualified as one of the most enthusiastic customer bases short of Apple.
As for me, I don't hate them, why would I waste the energy? I do find their actions towards the game and background I am incredibly fond of deeply, deeply frustrating sometimes.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
The black plastic lidded one was the one that dried out. get any amount of paint on the lip and it never really closed properly letting the paint dry. keep it clean it was ok but even then the hard plastic never really makes a good seal. (no o rings no gasket, nothing)
Edit: woh i think i read that wrong from the other quote. sorry bout that but yeah i hate these black plastic screw tops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/11 23:08:11
They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
The black plastic lidded one was the one that dried out. get any amount of paint on the lip and it never really closed properly letting the paint dry. keep it clean it was ok but even then the hard plastic never really makes a good seal. (no o rings no gasket, nothing)
Edit: woh i think i read that wrong from the other quote. sorry bout that but yeah i hate these black plastic screw tops.
Is this seriously the issue here? Sorry, but DUH. This goes for any type of container, not just old GW pots!
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
2013/04/11 23:21:31
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
nectarprime wrote:
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Rysaer wrote:
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
This is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen posted on the internet ever.
Only now do I realize how much I prefer Pete Haines' "misprints" to Gav Thorpe's "brainfarts." :Abadabadoobaddon
2013/04/11 23:22:31
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
nectarprime wrote: Is this seriously the issue here? Sorry, but DUH. This goes for any type of container, not just old GW pots!
The really old pop tops weren't nearly as susceptible to getting paint around the rim, and if they did, they were far more tolerant of bit of paint in the rim before the paint itself actually started to dry out.
That said, I've had screw tops dry out on me even when I've been careful to keep them completely clean. The newer pop tops are better than the screw tops IMO, but still no where near as good as the old pop tops that preceded the screw tops.
2013/04/11 23:46:59
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
nectarprime wrote:
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Rysaer wrote:
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
This is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen posted on the internet ever.
Yeah we're lying
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
2013/04/11 23:56:54
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
nectarprime wrote:
Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Rysaer wrote:
Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
This is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen posted on the internet ever.
Yeah we're lying
Honestly this is the first time I've ever heard someone actually liking the screw tops (aside from when they were first released and a couple of GW staffers were jumping up and down about how they are so much easier to open). So you can imagine my surprise I've never heard any comments beyond they are a pain to open when you get even the slightest paint in the lid and they dry out far too easily, certainly nothing positive.
The newer pop tops I hear more good about them as far as not getting stuck closed as easily, but they still dry out way too easily.
2013/04/12 00:19:48
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Dynamix wrote: GW have managed to export 'hate' towards themselves from being fairly exclusive to the gaming community to the wider world with their 'Spots the Space Marine ' shenanigans
Pretty soon though they're going to put an embargo on exporting hate, so we'll only be able to hate locally, and never online.
For the record - yes, the black capped 'bolter shell' bottles had a problem with sealing.
I do not think that it was malice, or even planned obsolescence - I think that those bottles were chosen for the simple reason that they looked cool.
GW likely never did a test for how well they did at keeping paint fresh.
I used them to make jet engines on a homemade Thunderhawk....
The Auld Grump, they did look cool... they just sucked as bottles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 01:08:41
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/12 01:24:59
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
nectarprime wrote: Then why do I have 2 dozen of these pots still that are perfectly fine and not dried out, even when sitting for years with no use? Just sounds like angry people and their conspiracy theories.
Rysaer wrote: Agreed, I still have several of these pots from when I was a kid that are still usable and I still use one or two for mixing pots etc, I actually preferred them to the black plastic lidded ones, although the new ones are good quality.
This is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen posted on the internet ever.
Yeah we're lying
Honestly this is the first time I've ever heard someone actually liking the screw tops (aside from when they were first released and a couple of GW staffers were jumping up and down about how they are so much easier to open). So you can imagine my surprise I've never heard any comments beyond they are a pain to open when you get even the slightest paint in the lid and they dry out far too easily, certainly nothing positive.
I've still got some that, over the years, have gone through about 5 moves. They've been sitting in a carboard box that has gone from a freezing cold climate to a climate that shifted between freezing cold and unbearably hot. That cardboard box has spent its time sitting in various garages and cupboards. The screw top paints are still perfectly fine - in fact, I've still got flesh wash from that era, and chestnut ink and ork flesh wash/green ink from the later pots that were the screw top design but with the pop top lid, that haven't dehydrated at all. They're still completely full.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 01:25:31
2013/04/12 01:34:04
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
For the record - i had a new pot of brown wash from GW (whatever the name is now) and it managed to open itself in my icecream container paint pot holder, whilst all my PP and reaper paints stayed shut (reaper may have been twist tops ) and i'd had the GW pot 2 weeks, i've had the PP and reaper ones over a year and a half. It may have been bad luck but it's a good a reason as any to move to army painter for my washes/inks.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/04/12 01:40:22
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Bullockist wrote: For the record - i had a new pot of brown wash from GW (whatever the name is now) and it managed to open itself in my icecream container paint pot holder, whilst all my PP and reaper paints stayed shut (reaper may have been twist tops ) and i'd had the GW pot 2 weeks, i've had the PP and reaper ones over a year and a half. It may have been bad luck but it's a good a reason as any to move to army painter for my washes/inks.
I haven't had it happen to me, but I've heard a lot of stories of washes leaking while in someone's paint box and getting all over everything. One of my friends who quit the hobby gave me all his old paints and the bottles were all brown because an ink leaked, according to him it was one he hadn't even opened yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 01:40:38
2013/04/12 01:52:43
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Yeah, I had a pot of red ink in the screwtops that leaked all over the place without being opened. And I went through 3 pots of Tin Bitz before I ever actually got to use it... That stuff dried out ridiculously quickly in the screwtops.
My old Coat D'arms paints, by comparison, are still good after 19 years... and half of them have cracked lids, and still haven't dried out
2013/04/12 02:24:15
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/04/12 02:33:23
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Bullockist wrote: It's amazing that we can have a rational discussion on merits of things , without someone jumping in and telling us we are all wrong! WHAT'S GOING ON?
White knight in 5
4
3
2
1
You're all wrong!
Can we go back to the rational discussion now that is out of the way?
Ahhh, these threads remind me of the D&D 4e days... back before WotC confirmed all the opinions of the Naysayers and announced 5th Edition....
'3.5 sucks! WotC was right to get rid of it!'
'Pathfinder sucks! It can't hope to compete with 4e!'
'ICV2 is wrong! Pathfinder isn't outselling 4e! It can't!'
'What do you mean that 5e has just been announced, and that you wil be able to use 3.5 stuff with it?! Waaaahhhhh!!!!! '
The major difference is that WotC realized that they had made a mistake, and started making corrections....
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/12 02:38:28
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
TheAuldGrump wrote:For the record - yes, the black capped 'bolter shell' bottles had a problem with sealing.
I do not think that it was malice, or even planned obsolescence - I think that those bottles were chosen for the simple reason that they looked cool.
GW likely never did a test for how well they did at keeping paint fresh.
I used them to make jet engines on a homemade Thunderhawk....
The Auld Grump, they did look cool... they just sucked as bottles.
Some of my friends always thought they did it on purpose, I just assumed they were idiots and didn't realise after you use the pot a few times it's buggered and they don't seal very well.
However, after some 10 years of going from one crappy pot to another crappy pot, I can't help but feel GW don't WANT to use good pots.
-Loki- wrote:I've still got some that, over the years, have gone through about 5 moves. They've been sitting in a carboard box that has gone from a freezing cold climate to a climate that shifted between freezing cold and unbearably hot. That cardboard box has spent its time sitting in various garages and cupboards. The screw top paints are still perfectly fine - in fact, I've still got flesh wash from that era, and chestnut ink and ork flesh wash/green ink from the later pots that were the screw top design but with the pop top lid, that haven't dehydrated at all. They're still completely full.
Yes, I have some of those pots that are still working too. I also have a pile of them that are dried up (or had, thrown them out now ). The size of the "dried out" pile is significantly larger than the "dried out" pile of the previous ones and there's almost none that I used regularly that survived, it's mostly the pots that I never opened or opened once and luckily managed to seal again that have survived (I also have a few that I used once and DIDN'T seal again and are now dried up, yay for paying $3.50 for a few brush strokes worth of paint ).
But what I said was I've never heard someone who actually LIKED those pots. Can you honestly say you thought they were good quality pots? Just because a few of them survived doesn't make them a good pot.
insaniak wrote:My old Coat D'arms paints, by comparison, are still good after 19 years... and half of them have cracked lids, and still haven't dried out
Yes, pretty much all my paints from that era are still good, only a couple have gone bad, a bleached bone I had used for many many years the lid finally just broke in half, and an orange which I accidentally didn't press down fully dried out, other than that, they're all good (well, I also had a metallic that irreversibly separated, but I don't think I can overly blame the pot on that one).
2013/04/12 03:09:36
Subject: Re:The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
Honestly this is the first time I've ever heard someone actually liking the screw tops (aside from when they were first released and a couple of GW staffers were jumping up and down about how they are so much easier to open). So you can imagine my surprise I've never heard any comments beyond they are a pain to open when you get even the slightest paint in the lid and they dry out far too easily, certainly nothing positive.
For the record I still have 60% of my paints I purchased from 2003. All were screw typed. And they are still good. The problem is that most people never truly learned on how to take care of this type of investment. How to simply clean up and take care of your paint supplies (include all of your modeling supplies as well) properly is just as important is purchasing models Something I taught a few GW employees to do over the years
The major difference is that WotC realized that they had made a mistake, and started making corrections....
The Auld Grump
Meet Monte 24 years ago dealing with Hero Games (Actually Iron Crown when he was the editor for the Champions Rpg) . When he left the design group for 5th ED that got my warning bells going. Probably be an okay system but still...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 03:15:45
Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-
"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".
Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?
You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
2013/04/12 03:25:32
Subject: The Surge in the Games Workshop Bashing Threads
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But what I said was I've never heard someone who actually LIKED those pots. Can you honestly say you thought they were good quality pots? Just because a few of them survived doesn't make them a good pot.
I like them the most out of GW's post hexagon pots. Especially more than the recent crop of pots that won't actually hold open, and basically droop closed while you're still shifting paint to the palette. I never had issues with the pop top lids of the screw top design, and rarely had a screw top dry shut.