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silent25 wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

SoloFalcon wrote: Are we shareholders? No. Until we are, they are not accountable to us.

As an economist and an MBA, I can tell you this line of thinking is silly, for several reasons. The most fundamental being that the Shareholders don't pay GW's bills

Have you actually ever worked in management at a publicly traded company? Those large share holders have a direct line to the front office. They have the ability to kick a CEO out if they don't like them. You ignore them at your own peril.

No it really doesn't work like that in reality in the vast, vast majority of cases.

I'll trust the word of someone who has experienced this. Plus, if that was the case, shareholder activists like Carl Icahn should be powerless to impact companies? Right?

I've highlighted the important bit. And yes, I do work in management at publicly traded companies providing internal and external financial reporting..

And yes it is trademarked, there is a little TM next to each faction title. 

™ means very little. Really it is only letting people know that this is the name of our product. ® is more significant, and requires registration and an assertion of those rights. You actually see ™ a lot...you see it implied even more often, as you dont actually have to mark your marks for them to be a mark...you only have to use it to identify a product. Looking at the PP website's copyright policy, they indicate that it isn't the word, but the logo which includes the word that they are claiming.

I dont think that anyone has a problem with selling Imperial Guard (which gives them a common law trademark) rather being so obtuse as to think they should have exclusive rights to such a common and generic term.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

And yes it is trademarked, there is a little TM next to each faction title. 

™ means very little. Really it is only letting people know that this is the name of our product. ® is more significant, and requires registration and an assertion of those rights. You actually see ™ a lot...you see it implied even more often, as you dont actually have to mark your marks for them to be a mark...you only have to use it to identify a product. Looking at the PP website's copyright policy, they indicate that it isn't the word, but the logo which includes the word that they are claiming.

I dont think that anyone has a problem with selling Imperial Guard (which gives them a common law trademark) rather being so obtuse as to think they should have exclusive rights to such a common and generic term.

What is this "our product" talk?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:


I've highlighted the important bit. And yes, I do work in management at publicly traded companies providing internal and external financial reporting..

Noted, though how are companies prevent from being impacted from aggressive shareholders? "Shareholder rights" allow large mutual funds quite a bit of influence on publicly traded firms.

If a company puts ™ on something, that means they are saying it is "Our product"...

Careful, there are no black helicopters in my posts that would imply that I work for or with PP. I know several people who do, very well in fact - but I would not give them any more deference in terms of their company than I would any other company (used to like GW a good bit too...though they have taken their rope, tied it to their neck and ran off a cliff with it).

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
If a company puts ™ on something, that means they are saying it is "Our product"...

Careful, there are no black helicopters in my posts that would imply that I work for or with PP. I know several people who do, very well in fact - but I would not give them any more deference in terms of their company than I would any other company (used to like GW a good bit too...though they have taken their rope, tied it to their neck and ran off a cliff with it).

<puts on tin foil hat> Suuuuuuuuuure.......

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

Spoiler:

 Baldsmug wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 Baldsmug wrote:
I hate how GW forces me to buy their stuff, its ridiculous its like i have no choice.

oh wait... that didn't happen.
If you don't like the company or what they do don't buy their stuff and if you are SOOO righteous don't even buy it second hand like i know a lot of you haters like to brag about doing. No one is forcing you to play with these toys. You people are just ridiculous. Get over yourselves. If you want to hate a corporation why not focus on hating one that REALLY deserves it, like Monsanto, Pfizer, or one of those REAL evil corporations who really DO NOT give you a choice.

 Baldsmug wrote:
What if they had stolen online PDFs and a really nice scratch built model that was painted really well. And they presented you with a packet that included any AI rules they might be using as well as a list that was done in excel and included all items of wargear in a well laid out manner to go along with an army that is WYSIWYG. Would that be good enough for you? cause thats how i role

Interesting

Aren't you clever. Great out of context quote about using scratchbuilt models and IA rules from a while back. or are you just trying to attack my character to prove some point? I may have gotten some not so legit PDFs but that doesn't mean i am trying to bring down GW or bear any ill will toward them. Just so ya know, i still have to buy my models, just like everyone else and prefer to get them brand new from my FLGS. And if it makes you feel better I am working on actually purchasing the codex's and IA books which are applicable for my army, but since i don't really play that often so I tend to spend more money on the models. I am not one of those " I hate GW because i read it on the internet so i am only going to buy my models second hand to keep them from getting any of my money" type of people. I am more of a I will buy any models i can get for the money i have to spend and I would really like to read the books first before i spend money that could be used to get more models type of guy. Thanks for checking out my old quotes though, and i hope you took a look at my P&M blog while you were rooting around in there.

What's out of context about my quote? You say in the quote that you stole an Imperial Armour pdf to play your scratch built model. Is this inaccurate? Is there more to the story than that summary?

I just find it funny that someone who is telling people they don't NEED to buy GW products, and that they should get over it, is stealing from GW because he doesn't want to buy it

Oh but I do want to buy the stuff. I want to buy all the stuff. I am sorry if it was miss leading but my argument in that thread was about how people didn't want to play with forge world becaue they didn't have easy access to the rules and then thye also didn't want to play with someone who scratch built a forgeworld unit because they didn't pay the money for the forge world one. I would much rather have the real deal if the unit had a model and i would much rather have the actual book because i think they are worth the money but unfortunetly I have real life obligations and bills and such so it takes a while for me to get the money together for the real deal.

I find it funny that you think you have me all figured out from a couple posts on a forum dedicated to toys. I am sure in real life you are probably an okay guy though.

And i don't think there is a single person in the world that NEEDS to buy anything from GW.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I advise reading more in forums such as Painting & Modelling, which is a constant source of inspiration.

There is much truth in this. I suspect the enjoyment that you get out of Dakka Dakka is at least somewhat correlated with how much time you spent in the OT forum.

To put it differently, I knew exactly what this thread would be about, I knew exactly who would post in it, and to some extent, I knew what they would say. I know that this post will appear again in 4 to 6 weeks. And knowing all that, I chose to participate anyway. But if you're truly not enjoying the cycle - and some of the posters here are clearly expressing such a sentiment - try and remember that the other parts of Dakka offer a better tone, less invective, and more community.

Again, wow, so many replies, and a mix of both sides of the argument. I am at least happy to see that I don't stand alone in noticing the increase in critical/negative threads. I posted my blog article and thoughts here mainly because a day doesn't go by that I don't notice a negative/critical GW thread on the front page of the site. There's one there right now. Anyways, I want to take a moment and reply to comments that stuck out to me.

gorgon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It's not just miniatures gaming that sees this kind of activity, it's everything. The Internet is, after all, a Global Hate Machine.

Mostly this. And Dakka's actually fairly friendly compared to some forums out there.

HOWEVER, in this veteran's opinion, this is the most negative Dakka's been in the Yakface era. And I'm not talking about measured, critical analysis -- some of that does exist here -- but the rise in negative and repetitive content-void posting. I'm not sure what can be done about that without some fairly harsh modding. The old 40K mailing list had a ban on all pricing discussions, for instance. Seems harsh, but then it really did remove a lot of the noise. *shrug*

I think this says a lot. I too have been in the hobby for years, and I've visited the the forums numerous times in those years. I've notice there has been an increase. While I accept and agree with many of the orignial grievances and that GW has made poor decisions, I just believe the community, or at least Dakka, has taken the issue past criticism and critical arguments to whipping GW. We as a community are beginning to tread into the "beating a dead horse" realm. Because of this surge, inablity to dial things back, and passing constructive criticism, I believe the community is doing more than GW has recently done to harm itself.

mattyrm wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
He has a point. This is a hobby, not a staple of life. If you don't like it, get out of it or find a new one.

Is GW making some bizarre business choices? yes, but without any further information, we are just yelling at brick walls about things we cannot change.

Of course everyone is here voluntarily, but if I was going to find a new hobby, I would rather choose to than feel I was forced to. I'm just glad that there are so many good alternatives these days, if this was 10 years ago we'd be royally fethed.

It's fairly widely accepted that GW does monitor sites like these, so it may not be a total exercise in shouting at a wall, and even if it is, talking about things that upset, annoy or anger you with others of a similar opinion or debating them with those that disagree is healthy and cathartic. Much better than having to seethe in silence or try and explain to friends or family why you're so upset about your toys.

Yeah while I agree that some of the people replying to the haters can use the odd strawman, I think the point is entirely relevant, a hobby isnt like a drug or medication, its not worth the same amount of vitriol.

At the end of the day, I have been called a "white knight" before by the more vitriolic posters, and I have never bought a finecast model, actively want GW to lose their case against chapterhouse, and think that all kinds of the gak they do is barmy. The internet simply makes absolutely everything a black and white issue, so people have to turn it into "white knight" and "hater" instead of simply being relatively unconcerned because its just a hobby, and making the odd observation.

So ive fallen foul with some of the more militant "haters" on here and argued with them, despite the fact I really am nonchalantly ambivalent to GW and spend feth all on their products. Simply because the are just the other side of the same coin, namely.. people that take their hobby far too fething seriously.

mattym, I believe your quote does a fair job in discribing my own stance. I agree with you that I hope GW loses their case with chapterhouse, and I agree that GW doesn't make perfect decisions all the time. However, it was your last sentence that struck a cord. I wrote my blog article and post here as response to bitterness I was getting from so many posts. As I stated in my first paragraph, there hasn't been a day that I haven't seen a critical/negative thread about GW right there on the front page of the site, and honestly, it was beginning to wear on me.

Barfolomew wrote:I think one should also note that at least there is discussion. It would be worse if there was no discussion because people just didn't care. No matter how good or bad something is, there will be people who actively bash it. Typically, it depends on that person's hot button issues.

Discussion is one thing. Discussion I can handle. There have been fair points raised by both sides in this thread. What I believe has been happening in the recent months is not discussion but rather a diatribe.

Leth wrote:Ehhh, if I needed GW to live I would have a problem with a lot of the things they are doing. I would then also agree that a lot of these things (like pricing) is a problem.

However I don't need it to live, it is a luxury and it is a luxury that I would stop playing in a heart beat if I stopped getting my value out of it.

Now if you want to make the comparative value argument my first question is "Well why are you not playing that one?" There are plenty of other factors that are preventing you from doing so, however since those are harder to quantify people complain about the price since it is solid. Value is more than just a dollar figure,

On the codex errors, your right I wish they would have caught some of these things. However over all the product is satisfactory for me. If you want to compare fault free items to not. They will send you a new one almost no questions asked. Do they have their problems? Sure, but I will give them respect for being the only company that I know of that has made it for 30ish years now. They, like magic, have found a way to survive through such a volatile economic period. How many times has something come along that is going to be "the warhammer replacement" yet they are no longer here, and GW still is.

Great points that I agree with. I wish they could do a better job proofing the codices, but it has not effected the my games or the game machanics in a significant way. Like you, I'm satisfied with the product. For a company that is supposed to hate their customers, I have had many personal experiences that say other wise, and I hear the same from numerous people that actually call and talk to GW's customer service.

Kilkrazy wrote:What is wrong with you as a consumer complaining about something you consume, that you find to be sub-standard?

Aren't you the OP, as a consumer of the forum user generated content, complaining about its sub-standard quality?

I advise reading more in forums such as Painting & Modelling, which is a constant source of inspiration.

I have no problems with GW. On a whole, I don't have a problem with Dakka. I completely agree with you that any other part of Dakka is fun. I am just stating my own thoughts/believes/opinions that I have about the over all increase in criticism/negative towards GW. I can tell you that Dakka is not the only place that I get almost bombard by bitterness and negativity.

Polonius wrote:

silent25 wrote:
[But then again, people like to go to sites that reinforce their views, not question them usually.

there's a certain amount of truth to that. I find that both "sides" tend to overly simplify the issue. I know working out some of the prices of basic troops over the past 10 years, I saw a lot of kits stay more or less the same, while quality only goes up. That doesn't help if you have an army that skyrocketed (IG or Eldar most notably), but I was surprised at how little those core units really went up.

i think that there too many instances of both blind defense of GW, and rehashed and derivative negativity. But, I think most of that has to do with a need to be heard, or a need for conflict.

I wanted to quote you because I agree with you. I will admit that my own position and article is probably simplified, but that is largely due to that I don't have the time nor the resources to expand and solidify my arguments. The best I can hope for is articulate as best I can my own thoughts, feelings, observations, and experiences.

nkelsch wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
But, I think most of that has to do with a need to be heard, or a need for conflict.

You hit the nail on the head, the reason we have so many of the same threads with the same people posting the exact same content is because they feel 'good' like they are being heard, and want to argue. The truth is while all of these topics are all over the internet, in real life, when you go to all these FLGS and events and meet real life people and play with your figures and such, none of this stuff comes up and half of the complaints simply are not even reality... Your GW sucks? Your FLGS sucks? Your can't get your models cheaply? A book I never heard of almost got taken down? None of those issues effect my reality or anyone else in real life.

Dogs barking in the night. I think going to the modeling subforum and posting pictures of my stuff is much better use of Dakka's website as a whole than people belching out the same laundry list of grievances like it matters or anyone cares.

At the end of the day, this is the thought that crosses my mind and I wonder if it crosses anyone else. None of this comes up in conversation in my area. It just that when you read negative after negative it takes a toll on you.

Well it is just your own decision how to deal with this "negativity"

Some people don't care and will support GW as nothing has changed.

Some people feel that the changes to GW policy is a stab in the back of their consumers, and lash their anger out on this forum.

For every white knight there is also a GW-hater.

You just have to sift through comments or ignore these threads about GW antics.

A lot of us like GW but don't understand their business practices lately, it is like they shot their foot off, "hey you are bleeding", and they say "don't worry it is a good thing"

@Jehan-reznor
I understand your point. I've said my piece with this forum post and blog article, so I'm washing my hands of it afterwards. I will stick to the Painting + Modeling forums and look around at army lists. I too don't understand GW's business practices lately, but since I neither work for them or impact those decision in any meaningful way, I don't get very worked up over them. As a result, I find how the community reacts a bit confusing. Because at the end of the day, 40k is our hobby. A hobby that we passionately love, but ultimately, has no impact on the outside world.

No, but it has impact on our "hobby" world

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
No, but it has impact on our "hobby" world

Quoted for Truth.

Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.

They're down there with scam artists, always have been, always will be.

It's no wonder they would rather sell to kids. kids are ignorant and uncaring. adults are less likely to tolerate GW's BS.

kb305 wrote:
Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

Yes. My rose-tinted glasses stop me from seeing all the mid 90's wordwide embargos, the attempts to stop online shopping, the no-preview mentality of advertising, mid-90's FineCast, one-man stores, no game play in stores, and so on.

Oh wait... none of that happened in the 90's.

Oh look, this thread again. It's been what, a week?

most of your points are moot since online shopping wasnt an issue in the 90s.

13 years ago alot of people in canada were constantly complaining about GW pricing.

back then my friends dad also had a big arguement with the red shirts because they wouldnt allow him to use a few reaper proxies.

as for finecrap. it sucks but metal sucks more. i'll gladly waste my time fixing finecrap over working with metal.

 bkiker wrote:
@Jehan-reznor
I understand your point. I've said my piece with this forum post and blog article, so I'm washing my hands of it afterwards. I will stick to the Painting + Modeling forums and look around at army lists. I too don't understand GW's business practices lately, but since I neither work for them or impact those decision in any meaningful way, I don't get very worked up over them. As a result, I find how the community reacts a bit confusing. Because at the end of the day, 40k is our hobby. A hobby that we passionately love, but ultimately, has no impact on the outside world.

Your final sentence there is a bit of a contradiction in terms - anyone who spends hours (probably going towards thousands of hours for some people here!) is going to feel an emotional investment with what they do, and therefore give a disproportionate level of importance to that thing. So, I think that's probably why you get so many emotive posts about that subject. If you read comments regarding D&D when 4th edition was released (I'm sure there are many other examples!) you would have read exactly the same.

It's just that over the past couple of years GW seems to have done so much to raise the communities ire.. lists have already been written in the thread. Even if one thing doesn't bother or effect you, another will and so what had previously been a largely positive or else neutral relationship ('I buy stuff to paint') can turn sour.
For me it was the RoW ban - I was living in a country with no GW, and that suddenly made it impossible for me to buy GW products.

But yes, there is a difference between "GW sux yeaaaah", said for no reason, and a poster having a negative reaction to Finecast, the price rises, the RoW ban, the ban on gaming in stores, or anything else you care to mention.

kb305 wrote:
Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.

They're down there with scam artists, always have been, always will be.

It's no wonder they would rather sell to kids. kids are ignorant and uncaring. adults are less likely to tolerate GW's BS.

Every company ever does this. Companies like Gillette and Wilkinson purposely make blades that rust to keep you buying.

Further to what Pacific said above, you not how we're not really bashing the miniatures either. Or even the rules (although we could, especially with the current era of random cinematic gaming). Aside from this desire to fill the game with silly flyers and cartoonish oval-based monsters the miniatures are still top notch, and the technology that goes into making them (FineCost aside) is state of the art. I may not like some of GW's latest big plastic kits, but it's hard to fault them on their details and the sculpting/casting quality. It's not 'general hate' that drives us, it's specific things that make us mad (embargos, the constant Kingsley-proof price hikes, WD in general, their completely ass-backwards method of promoting and advertising their products, etc.).

Trying to boil it all down into 'internet hate' isn't just disengenuous, it's insulting.

kb305 wrote:
most of your points are moot since online shopping wasnt an issue in the 90s.

I'm fully aware of that. Doesn't make anything moot, it just means there are new ways to mess with the customers, ways that didn't exist back then, making today different. No rose-tinted glasses to 'golden years' of days when GW would give out free hugs and miniatures.

It is getting worse. Note I don't say from good to bad.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No rose-tinted glasses to 'golden years' of days when GW would give out free hugs and miniatures.

They gave out free hugs?! i got my free miniatures! but i never got my free Hugs damn you GW!

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:

kb305 wrote:
Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.

They're down there with scam artists, always have been, always will be.

It's no wonder they would rather sell to kids. kids are ignorant and uncaring. adults are less likely to tolerate GW's BS.

Every company ever does this. Companies like Gillette and Wilkinson purposely make blades that rust to keep you buying.

oh really? gilette gave me a bunch of free samples and the razors seem to last forever.

do you know if and when GW is going to be giving out free sample of hobby supplies?

kb305 wrote:

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:

kb305 wrote:
Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.

They're down there with scam artists, always have been, always will be.

It's no wonder they would rather sell to kids. kids are ignorant and uncaring. adults are less likely to tolerate GW's BS.

Every company ever does this. Companies like Gillette and Wilkinson purposely make blades that rust to keep you buying.

oh really? gilette gave me a bunch of free samples and the razors seem to last forever.

do you know if and when GW is going to be giving out free sample of hobby supplies?

The free thing isn't what I'm talking about. An ideal consumable product, such as paint, razors or food, fills a need while needing to be replaced as often as possible. It's simply how it works.

Think about it; you could charge 1 million customers for a shaving razor that lasts forever once or charge 1 million customers a slightly lower price every month to replace it. Which would you pick?

It doesn't work quite the same way with goods such as models or electronics, but there is still a deliberate influence to drag you to the newest option deliberately.

 bkiker wrote:
I have a hard time leveling some of the hate and toxicity that many of the online community have. I have come to wonder if this is unique to the online community?

GW have managed to export 'hate' towards themselves from being fairly exclusive to the gaming community to the wider world with their 'Spots the Space Marine ' shenanigans

I'm actually a really easy going person. If you go above and beyond for me the customer then I shower you with praises to anyone I talk to about it. If your indifferent then I to am indifferent. If you go out of your way to antagonize me or my local store then I will bring my full arsenal to bear upon you. Our voices as consumers are our greatest weapon. It's why GW doesn't like the Internet. It gives us access to far more consumers than we would ordinarily have. So use your voices.

Consumers can be a companies greatest weapon or worst enemy. How you choose to use them is up to you. Don't cry if you abuse us and we give voice. You can't silence us no matter how you try.

Pacific wrote:

 bkiker wrote:
@Jehan-reznor
I understand your point. I've said my piece with this forum post and blog article, so I'm washing my hands of it afterwards. I will stick to the Painting + Modeling forums and look around at army lists. I too don't understand GW's business practices lately, but since I neither work for them or impact those decision in any meaningful way, I don't get very worked up over them. As a result, I find how the community reacts a bit confusing. Because at the end of the day, 40k is our hobby. A hobby that we passionately love, but ultimately, has no impact on the outside world.

Your final sentence there is a bit of a contradiction in terms - anyone who spends hours (probably going towards thousands of hours for some people here!) is going to feel an emotional investment with what they do, and therefore give a disproportionate level of importance to that thing. So, I think that's probably why you get so many emotive posts about that subject. If you read comments regarding D&D when 4th edition was released (I'm sure there are many other examples!) you would have read exactly the same.

It's just that over the past couple of years GW seems to have done so much to raise the communities ire.. lists have already been written in the thread. Even if one thing doesn't bother or effect you, another will and so what had previously been a largely positive or else neutral relationship ('I buy stuff to paint') can turn sour.
For me it was the RoW ban - I was living in a country with no GW, and that suddenly made it impossible for me to buy GW products.

But yes, there is a difference between "GW sux yeaaaah", said for no reason, and a poster having a negative reaction to Finecast, the price rises, the RoW ban, the ban on gaming in stores, or anything else you care to mention.

I guess for me personally I keep things in perspective. 40k for me is a hobby. A hobby that I love and enjoy. However, my life is more complex than just 40k. I have a family that I love and want to spend time with. I enjoy books, movies, and video games and want to spend time with them. I have a home and job that I must spend time with. For me personally, if 40k disappeared tomorrow, I would be sad, but there are plenty of other things in the world and my life that I can choose from. As you said, there is a difference between "GW sux yeaaaaaaaah" and legitimate criticism. It just seems to me that the "GW sux yeaaaaah" response is becoming more prevalent and louder.

Dynamix wrote:

 bkiker wrote:
I have a hard time leveling some of the hate and toxicity that many of the online community have. I have come to wonder if this is unique to the online community?

GW have managed to export 'hate' towards themselves from being fairly exclusive to the gaming community to the wider world with their 'Spots the Space Marine ' shenanigans

I am curious if this has had as big of an impact outside of the GW community than is popularly held. While I did read the initial story on Blastr, it was only through the GW community that I got any kind of updates. If my memory serves me correctly, the issue was resolved within a few days with "Spot(s) the Space Marine" going back on the market. While I agree and voiced my disagreement at the time, the "Spot the Space Marine" issue, story died when it got resolved, and I wonder if more people did the same.

I am curious if this has had as big of an impact outside of the GW community than is popularly held. While I did read the initial story on Blastr, it was only through the GW community that I got any kind of updates. If my memory serves me correctly, the issue was resolved within a few days with "Spot(s) the Space Marine" going back on the market. While I agree and voiced my disagreement at the time, the "Spot the Space Marine" issue, story died when it got resolved, and I wonder if more people did the same.

This story made the BBC News website , and didnt the issue result in GW Facebook page being shut down in part due to the negative reactions posted on it ?

Apart from the gaming community it seems to have made an impact with some of the Sci-Fi community and book-writing / reading community at least , who may associate the name GamesWorkshop negatively when its mentioned from now on

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:

kb305 wrote:

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:

kb305 wrote:
Theyve been how they are forever. 13 years ago i remember people bitching about the same things that i read here today.

Funny how people have on their rosetinted glasses and seem to think they were some kind of awesome company back then. They weren't.

They designed those screw on paint pots to dry out to make you buy more (the 12ml ones, look it up if you dont know what im talking about). that was back in early-mid 2000s.

They're down there with scam artists, always have been, always will be.

It's no wonder they would rather sell to kids. kids are ignorant and uncaring. adults are less likely to tolerate GW's BS.

Every company ever does this. Companies like Gillette and Wilkinson purposely make blades that rust to keep you buying.

oh really? gilette gave me a bunch of free samples and the razors seem to last forever.

do you know if and when GW is going to be giving out free sample of hobby supplies?

The free thing isn't what I'm talking about. An ideal consumable product, such as paint, razors or food, fills a need while needing to be replaced as often as possible. It's simply how it works.

Think about it; you could charge 1 million customers for a shaving razor that lasts forever once or charge 1 million customers a slightly lower price every month to replace it. Which would you pick?

It doesn't work quite the same way with goods such as models or electronics, but there is still a deliberate influence to drag you to the newest option deliberately.

not really, people expect paint to not dry out in the container or atleast last many years before it does.

Those pots forced you to constantly hydrate your paint. All it did was piss people off and push them to other brands like vallejo.

By your logic GW would be justified in adding some chemical to the models themselves to make them biodegrade? You would be fine with that also?

I personally hate the constant push to update things, it's why i'll probably do away with my cellphone once my contract is over. I dont think it's right, i think theyre money grubbing scammers and they wont be getting anymore of my money.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The surge is likely because of the change in codex policy for GW this edition (more codices = more people to whine about changes), as well as a couple lackluster expansions (Crusade of Fire and Death From the Skies were very lacking in content). Outside of the game, GW has made some incredibly poor decisions lately (Spots the Space Marine lawsuit fiasco, screwing over online retailers, etc), and then there's the astronomical prices of some of their kits and books to top everything else off.

On top of all of that, the community on DakkaDakka just plain complains about damn near everything, but now they actually have far more excuses to do so.

I like the current flow of codices and expansions.
But then, as you said, GW seems to think they own every word written in their books, and the fact that they are constantly raising the startup costs.

 bkiker wrote:
I guess for me personally I keep things in perspective. 40k for me is a hobby. A hobby that I love and enjoy. However, my life is more complex than just 40k. I have a family that I love and want to spend time with. I enjoy books, movies, and video games and want to spend time with them. I have a home and job that I must spend time with. For me personally, if 40k disappeared tomorrow, I would be sad, but there are plenty of other things in the world and my life that I can choose from.

What makes you think anyone else arguing about GW is any different to you? You are here, talking about people talking about "bashing" GW, it's no different to what anyone else is doing. If I make a post discussing a negative point about GW, I don't go any cry in my corner for the next half an hour, I just go on with life. The GW hobby is part of my life because of the time I invest in it, but it's hardly an important part compared to my family, my job, my cat, etc and I'm pretty sure everyone arguing one way or the other is the same.

As you said, there is a difference between "GW sux yeaaaaaaaah" and legitimate criticism. It just seems to me that the "GW sux yeaaaaah" response is becoming more prevalent and louder.

I disagree, the random "GW bashing" has increased no more than "legitimate discussions about negative aspects of GW".

Dynamix wrote:

I am curious if this has had as big of an impact outside of the GW community than is popularly held. While I did read the initial story on Blastr, it was only through the GW community that I got any kind of updates. If my memory serves me correctly, the issue was resolved within a few days with "Spot(s) the Space Marine" going back on the market. While I agree and voiced my disagreement at the time, the "Spot the Space Marine" issue, story died when it got resolved, and I wonder if more people did the same.

This story made the BBC News website , and didnt the issue result in GW Facebook page being shut down in part due to the negative reactions posted on it ?

Apart from the gaming community it seems to have made an impact with some of the Sci-Fi community and book-writing / reading community at least , who may associate the name GamesWorkshop negatively when its mentioned from now on

I did not realize that it had made the BBC News website. As for the reasoning GW took down their Facebook page, I think we can only speculate. Maybe it was a contributing factor, but then again maybe it wasn't. As for being an issue outside the gaming community, I don't doubt it has made some sort of impact. I'm just curious if it's a banner or billboard size issue that the gaming community continues to make it out to be.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 bkiker wrote:
I guess for me personally I keep things in perspective. 40k for me is a hobby. A hobby that I love and enjoy. However, my life is more complex than just 40k. I have a family that I love and want to spend time with. I enjoy books, movies, and video games and want to spend time with them. I have a home and job that I must spend time with. For me personally, if 40k disappeared tomorrow, I would be sad, but there are plenty of other things in the world and my life that I can choose from.

What makes you think anyone else arguing about GW is any different to you? You are here, talking about people talking about "bashing" GW, it's no different to what anyone else is doing. If I make a post discussing a negative point about GW, I don't go any cry in my corner for the next half an hour, I just go on with life. The GW hobby is part of my life because of the time I invest in it, but it's hardly an important part compared to my family, my job, my cat, etc and I'm pretty sure everyone arguing one way or the other is the same.

As you said, there is a difference between "GW sux yeaaaaaaaah" and legitimate criticism. It just seems to me that the "GW sux yeaaaaah" response is becoming more prevalent and louder.

I disagree, the random "GW bashing" has increased no more than "legitimate discussions about negative aspects of GW".

I'm sorry that my statement that I made about myself somehow offended you. I was not implying that I think people think differently or that I am better. I was just making a personal statement about how I personally think and process issues that come up. As for "GW bashing" veruses "legitimate discussions", I believe there has been a change. Far too often is it easier to find anything that brings up GW a tsunami of overly harsh and bitter comments. Even the Beasts of War article that I linked points out that "GW has the ability to polarise opinion like no other manufacturer in the hobby." What "legitimate discussions" are out there generally devolve into shouting matches and a general sense of hostility. I'll use your comment as an example. While I'm fine if you disagree with me and your point about "GW bashing increasing no more than "legitimate discussions" may be valid. You open, however, in a rather hostile manner causing me to infer, "How DARE YOU think you're different or better!" Basically, attacking a statement that I made about my own way of thinking. No where in that statement did I say "I must be the only one that has a complex life" or "No one keeps 40k balanced with their family life, real life, etc." I tried to use as many personal pronouns and adverbs as I could in order to make it clear that I was talking about myself. "I guess for mepersonallyI...". This causes me to shut down and not even hear if you have a valid argument or not.