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'Make your own chapter', less Ultramarines, cheaper HQ choices (COME ON, A CHAOS LORD IS CHEAPER THAN A CAPTAIN AND DOES THE SAME THING!!), points readjustment, better Venerable Dreads.. In general, just a bit of fine-tuning, maybe an extra unit would be cool (no idea what) and some non-Ultramarines Honour Guard would be nice!!

Count me in for a "chapter traits" system. I've always said that Codex: Space Marines shouldn't be Codex: Ultramarines. What it really needs to do is encompass the codex-compliant chapters. Non-codex chapters obviously get their own books, like Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves... and Black Templars. They're not a codex chapter and GW has said they won't "squat" another army.

The captain could be a viable unit if his options let you pick flavorful chapter traits. Put your captain on a bike, bike squads become scoring (if not necessarily troops) and boom, you're now playing White Scars. Do the same with jump packs and you can play Raven Guard. Pedro Kantor already does this with Sternguard but it shouldn't be tied to a named character specifically.

I think the core rules of the units feel fine the way they are, bar a points adjustment for inevitable power creep, but I'd like to see a more flavorful option system. I don't want to play Codex: Ultramarines.

In my opinion the standard marine with a bolter needs to be more effective, maybe give Lysander's bolter drill to all standard marines as a new special rule for vanilla marines only, I remember just before 6th edition people talking about a tweaking to rapid fire, as I don't have the rulebook on me now I'm not sure how that turned out. But just to get something more out of the standard bolter would be nice, apart from that I agree with everything else above.

 Toasty wrote:
In my opinion the standard marine with a bolter needs to be more effective, maybe give Lysander's bolter drill to all standard marines as a new special rule for vanilla marines only, I remember just before 6th edition people talking about a tweaking to rapid fire, as I don't have the rulebook on me now I'm not sure how that turned out. But just to get something more out of the standard bolter would be nice, apart from that I agree with everything else above.

Standard marines with bolters are about as effective as they're going to get, especially with their ATSKNF, which is a pretty good rule to be fair, in fact, it's really good, and, a troop choice with a 3+ armour save isn't something to complain about..

 Exergy wrote:

 DiRTWaL wrote:
Codex Space Marines needs to have options to make your force a Salamanders army, Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and another chapter that operates a little bit different than Ultramarines

because chaos has the ability to make Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.

O wait

Does that NEED to be the same? It's not like the cod exes all need to have the same stuff, at least chaos has marks that make an army different and give it flavor

Predators with punisher cannons!

To be honest, most chapters can be differentiated just by unit selection within the core codex.

You can still have a Salamander army without Vulcan. Just load up on fluffy choices. It's nice to have special rules and characters to reinforce the style of play of a certain chapter, but unnecessary.

BrotherVord wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 DiRTWaL wrote:
Codex Space Marines needs to have options to make your force a Salamanders army, Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and another chapter that operates a little bit different than Ultramarines

because chaos has the ability to make Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.

O wait

Does that NEED to be the same? It's not like the cod exes all need to have the same stuff, at least chaos has marks that make an army different and give it flavor

Except only one matters, and that's Nurgle.

An Iron Hands SC that lets you trade Combat Tactics for a 6++ ("But that wouldn't help their Termi...Oh, right, Iron Hands aren't supposed to have a lot of Terminators").

A Deathwatch SC who lets you trade Combat Tactics for Preferred Enemy (Xenos) and Hatred (Xenos).

Flakk Missiles.

reaper with no name wrote:
An Iron Hands SC that lets you trade Combat Tactics for a 6++ ("But that wouldn't help their Termi...Oh, right, Iron Hands aren't supposed to have a lot of Terminators").

A Deathwatch SC who lets you trade Combat Tactics for Preferred Enemy (Xenos) and Hatred (Xenos).

Flakk Missiles.

That first one is pretty dang poor. Sisters of Battle has it with Shield of Faith, and it doesn't do em much good (They also get it on vehicles too)

reaper with no name wrote:
An Iron Hands SC that lets you trade Combat Tactics for a 6++ ("But that wouldn't help their Termi...Oh, right, Iron Hands aren't supposed to have a lot of Terminators").

A Deathwatch SC who lets you trade Combat Tactics for Preferred Enemy (Xenos) and Hatred (Xenos).

Flakk Missiles.

Change the Iron Hands one to a 6+ FNP.

What I can see getting changed:

Librarian, Chaplain, Captain, MOTF price drop.

Dreadnoughts getting a price drop (to 100pts, like other new books)

Slight price drops to Tactical Marines.

Drop Pods and Land Raider troop capacity getting dropped to fall in line with other codices.

Vindicator getting a slight price increase.

Devastators getting a price drop.

Whirlwinds getting a price drop.

Techmarines getting the Dark Angels treatment

What I want to see:

Addition of a second level of Chaplain.

Captains able to take an upgrade to make different units scoring. (IE, master of the first company, make tactical terminators scoring.)

Landspeeders getting an upgrade price drop.

Iron Hands special character (even though i dont play IH), seriously, that chapter needs some love.

Space marines needs a good reasonably priced HQ. At present there is just the librarian and he is (just) OK. Certainly not good.

Pretty new to the hobby and sensing the fact that I'm in camp Ultramarines means I should start wearing a bell round my neck!

Even so would like to see a Ventris captain entry... though not oblivious to the fact that characters are ubermarine heavy.

shame on the person suggesting losing telion.

maybe more options to build a captain with x traits from a catalogue might suit everybody!

BrotherVord wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 DiRTWaL wrote:
Codex Space Marines needs to have options to make your force a Salamanders army, Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and another chapter that operates a little bit different than Ultramarines

because chaos has the ability to make Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.

O wait

Does that NEED to be the same? It's not like the cod exes all need to have the same stuff, at least chaos has marks that make an army different and give it flavor

Chaos Marks might give it "flavor" but it doesn't really change things. Alpha Legion are not going to march across the field shooting, and the marks do not show that Legion or how sneaky they are, the Marks do not let me infiltrate. The best you can do is use cultists and say they were traitors turned to the cause and are doing the brunt of the fighting, but then you still need the Alpha Legion itself somewhere.. Word Bearers should be able to summon demons, Night Lords who had a rules write up in a Chapter Approved got night fighting, and stealth, but lost a few things. Iron Warriors like Iron Hands should have something to let you play them, for what they are. Using more tanks, other tanks from IG Codex, or upgrades to show them being part robot or something.

But on topic, what does C:SM need? Well it will get flyers, and frak missiles.
It could use less Ultramarine Special Characters. Not that it's UltraSmurf hate, it just seems that they gave a couple of chapters one guy, and then the Smurfs got a dozen more. Even if it's Nova Marines, and Hollowing Griffins, there should be more love for other chapters. Or even more characters for chapters that people enjoy playing. I know some people who want more White Scares characters, and I would be happy with more Imperial Fist characters. I might even buy more Marines and play two chapters in the case of more Imperial Fist love, and not just swap my Black Templars out for Vanilla Marines as often.

It could use less Ultramarine Special Characters. Not that it's UltraSmurf hate, it just seems that they gave a couple of chapters one guy, and then the Smurfs got a dozen more. E

Because it used to be Codex: Ultramarines. They actually removed several things from the previous 4th edition (Honor guard used to be Ultramarine only, as well as Mcragg War Veterans, which were kinda like sternguard). And added far more additional SC's for the other chapters.

BrotherVord wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 DiRTWaL wrote:
Codex Space Marines needs to have options to make your force a Salamanders army, Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and another chapter that operates a little bit different than Ultramarines

because chaos has the ability to make Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.

O wait

Does that NEED to be the same? It's not like the cod exes all need to have the same stuff, at least chaos has marks that make an army different and give it flavor

Only 4/9 Legions are cult ones, so that leave 5/9 Legions we can assume to be identical vanilla and generic. Of the 4 cult legions only 1-2 are anywhere near competitive.

C:SM had no trouble using Lysander in every custom chapter under the sun, so by your logic no changes need to be made.

MarsNZ wrote:
C:SM had no trouble using Lysander in every custom chapter under the sun, so by your logic no changes need to be made.

The change should be removing the need to have a Special Character do it. Even if they simply have a section that has varying Chapter Tactics. Ultramarines are the standard, the other have different rules, like now, just not tied to a character.

 -Loki- wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
C:SM had no trouble using Lysander in every custom chapter under the sun, so by your logic no changes need to be made.

The change should be removing the need to have a Special Character do it. Even if they simply have a section that has varying Chapter Tactics. Ultramarines are the standard, the other have different rules, like now, just not tied to a character.

Of even tie it to Captains so that people have a reason to buy Captains over Librarians.

Looking at the 'design your own character' thread I eagerly await what balanced and well thought out reasons C:SM players make for adding EW and FnP to everything.

MarsNZ wrote:
Looking at the 'design your own character' thread I eagerly await what balanced and well thought out reasons C:SM players make for adding EW and FnP to everything.

I wouldn't go that far. Saga of the Bear on Space Wolf characters is dumb enough as it is.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

reaper with no name wrote:
An Iron Hands SC that lets you trade Combat Tactics for a 6++ ("But that wouldn't help their Termi...Oh, right, Iron Hands aren't supposed to have a lot of Terminators").

A Deathwatch SC who lets you trade Combat Tactics for Preferred Enemy (Xenos) and Hatred (Xenos).

Flakk Missiles.

That first one is pretty dang poor. Sisters of Battle has it with Shield of Faith, and it doesn't do em much good (They also get it on vehicles too)

Play against heldrakes or the new Tau and say that.

I'd like to see chapter specific abilities not require a special character to get. Either a traits system, or just a straight points cost you have to pay to get a specific chapter's rules. And if they do use a traits system, I want to see real downsides involved. Some of those negative traits you could take would have no effect at all if it was something you didn't use in your army anyway.

I don't mind Ultramarines being the posterboys for the codex, as they are supposed to be representative of a codex chapter to begin with (their Primarch wrote it, after all).

I would like to see something done with Tactical Marines. Not sure what, though. Maybe give them the Rapid Fire rule from the Horus Heresy legion army list.

There's a lot of hate for Ultramarines characters, but at least a few other chapters are allowed to share the codex now. Codex Ultramarines anyone? Yeah, now imagine if CA, C:BA, or C:SW was scrapped to let some other chapters in, there would be uproar. It is still C:UM, it was just renamed.

What the codex needs is points adjustments, some anti-air and something to shut up the people who moan about not wanted a Codex chapter in the book designed for them.