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So my ritualistic selling-of-old-army-book-on-eBay-before-it-becomes-useless has been undertaken, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask you all the following question: What exactly are you hoping (or fearing) for in the new Army Book? Indeed, if you've heard any rumours, what do you make of them? We can be fairly sure the book's coming next month so let's get the speculating underway while there's still time.

Have at it, Dakka.

Allright let's sum up what we allready know (from rumours)

GENERAL SPECIAL RULES:
-NO ASF or Valor as we know it today.
-Elven Dexterity: units with this rule can use parry save when wielding any weapon, even if mounted (some units may use it against shooting or even if mounted).
-Special rule for rolling an additional dice on chase an remove the lowest result (or four dice removing two lowest dices to swift stride).
-IaC: more than f*cking around, there are chances that the general may somehow help, dependin on region/power chosen it benefits some units.

SPECIAL RULES ON WEAPONRY:
-Elven Weapons: no penalties on two-handed or moving&shooting (there may exist extra bonus on elite units). (Translator says: in the beginning I thought of SW, but maybe maidens are also here).
-Ithilmar armor: no penalties when moving, +1AS on heavy armor (only on elite units).
-Dragon Armor: 3+ armor save against flaming attacks.
-Lion Pelt: Can also be used in CC.

MAGIC SPECIAL RULES:
-Elven Mages: +1 to dispel and can repeat channelings.
-High Magic: More powerful spells and representing the 8 lores of magic. It is said that there is one that gives life back to a dead character and other one specific against Chaos and "Bad" armies. They will be the most powerful sorcerers until Lizards get renewed after summer. Some rules will be shared with them.

SPECIFIC RULES ON UNITS:
-Martial Prowess: Elves fight and shoot with a extra rank (not specified, but this could be armywide).
-Spears and LSG: heavy armor and shield option.
-Archers: Light Armor.
-SHs: Heavy armor. Cheaper.
-Ellyrian Reavers: Same.
-T-Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-SMs: Parry save against shooting, Swords of Hoeth, Paths fighting.
-White Lions: Lumber Axes, Stubborn, Forest Stride.
-Phoenix Guard: Know their destiny (unbreakable), Magic Resistance, Ward Save. (maybe something about flaming attacks).
-SWs: Stalkers (?), Night Warriors (?).
-DPs: Caledor Proudness, all the rest remains the same.
-Lion Chariot: Same, cheaper.
-Flying Chariot: RBT on top of it, crew with elven weapons.
-RBT: cheaper, better.
-Dragons: Will of the Dragon (mix of 5ed. rule plus communion with rider that makes them share some rules). Super Dragon (Caledor Dragon?) may be wizard too.
-Phoenix: May be consecrated to Asuryan or another God (Phoenix alone or in a shrine?)
-Fire Dragons (MC): same as dragon princes, beast mounted is better than eagle but worse than a hypogryphe. Fly, 1+AS. Rare.
-Maiden Guard: Avelorn Mirror (?), Deadly in CC (?) (Translator says: I think no one knows what they'd do. I thought they would not exist, thought this was a wishlist... Maybe it's just a unit upgrade after all...).
-Warrior-mage (different from dragon-mage): Hoeth disciplines, fighting magic (guy was convinced one of them would be Belannaer).

Oooh, the repet channellings is something I've not heard about before. Is that just re-rolls to channel?

Prepare for a few new units, but brace yourself for losing 90% of your magic items. Expect Teclis and the Book to get Nerfed. Still playable, but not OP like they are now.

Speed of Asurmen will likely no longer ignore ASL from great weapons. So Swordmasters and White Lions will simply strike at inititive with no rerolls.

High Magic will probably get buffed a little, at least to where it will be a useful choice.

Slight repricing of many units. Dragons may be cheaper, Griffons will be cheaper but still lame(see Empire)

You may get White Lions riding... white lions. Monstrous Cavalry FTW!

 Grey Templar wrote:
You may get White Lions riding... white lions. Monstrous Cavalry FTW!

SO MANY LIONS!

But I think, in fact, our monstrous cav is coming in the form of a Pheonix, which is kinda cool.

I am gutted about the loss of Magic Items in every 8th Ed Book, same goes for all other armies, since I like the variety and customisability that it brings. And it's just fun thinking of all the combos you can create. As long as they keep the Silver Wand, Seerstaff and I guess Forliath's Robe, I'll be happy. Still doesn't quite match my fear of losing the Sacrificial Dagger when DE get re-released though...

getting rid of ASF

Thanks for all the rumour insights--I hadn't heard much of that stuff. Sounds pretty awesome, but what I am really hoping for is a significant change to the Core units for the HE--right now they are pretty vanilla, and so 25% of your army sort-of just dies or sits there. There are already too many Special units to choose from, but I guess this fits into GW's current strategy of providing Monsters and Monstrous Cavalry to all armies.

I love the High Elves, but I also play Dwarfs...when are the Stumpies going to get a new army book? This is the Second new HE book since that ancient Dwarf book came out.... Same goes for Wood Elves and Bretonnians. Oh well.

Well, it looks like ASF is staying, but it doesn't give units with GWs the rule, so swordmasters and the like with strikeat initiative.

An ellyrian reavers and silver helms are apparently now core, so that's more options at least.

 The Shadow wrote:
Well, it looks like ASF is staying, but it doesn't give units with GWs the rule, so swordmasters and the like with strikeat initiative.

An ellyrian reavers and silver helms are apparently now core, so that's more options at least.

HE are getting normal ASF wich means no more rerolls!

phatonic wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Well, it looks like ASF is staying, but it doesn't give units with GWs the rule, so swordmasters and the like with strikeat initiative.

An ellyrian reavers and silver helms are apparently now core, so that's more options at least.

HE are getting normal ASF wich means no more rerolls!

It's a shame, but at least the retention of it in some form means the 30-odd Swordmasters I've got won't be nerfed into oblivion. At least, it appears that way. They get a 6+ ward against most shooting attacks though, which is pretty cool.

 The Shadow wrote:

phatonic wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Well, it looks like ASF is staying, but it doesn't give units with GWs the rule, so swordmasters and the like with strikeat initiative.

An ellyrian reavers and silver helms are apparently now core, so that's more options at least.

HE are getting normal ASF wich means no more rerolls!

It's a shame, but at least the retention of it in some form means the 30-odd Swordmasters I've got won't be nerfed into oblivion. At least, it appears that way. They get a 6+ ward against most shooting attacks though, which is pretty cool.

Well still striking with great weapons at I5... still do good.. unless you meet a slannesh deamon army... Warriors of chaos etc etc stuff with high I.

...which is STILL good. You still strike at I5 with GW. How many other units strike at I5 with GW?

Yeah, its fine. Its actually balanced. Swordmasters and White Lions were stupid good for their points.

They were really good when they had re-roll at those points and ASF.

However I am Hopeing the Avelorn Archers are worth taking.

The Frostheart phoenix (Articuno) is a beast and will make it into my list other than that I really hope our book is diverse and offers many options so that i can write list without having to start out i need x of y to be competiitive so forth and so on.

Avelorn Archers?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Avelorn Archers?

I forget the proper name the flaming magical archer girls.

I thought those were the Maiden Guard.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Avelorn Archers?

The manish looking ones with the magic bows.

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
...which is STILL good. You still strike at I5 with GW. How many other units strike at I5 with GW?

Warriors of chaos swing at init 5 and S5.
I'm actually hoping white lions get a bit of a nurf. They are stupidly good for the points.

-Matt

Sigvatr wrote:...which is STILL good. You still strike at I5 with GW. How many other units strike at I5 with GW?

Yeah, it's still awesome. AND, from the other side of the elf-spectrum, my Black Guard can now obliterate Swordmasters!

captain collius wrote:They were really good when they had re-roll at those points and ASF.

However I am Hopeing the Avelorn Archers are worth taking.

The Frostheart phoenix (Articuno) is a beast and will make it into my list other than that I really hope our book is diverse and offers many options so that i can write list without having to start out i need x of y to be competiitive so forth and so on.

Grey Templar wrote:I thought those were the Maiden Guard.

I think Collius is on about Sisters of Avelorn, which are some unit armed with Magic Bows. They're part of the Shadow Warriors kit.

I'm personally hoping there's different types of magic bows you can take. For example, one could give flaming attacks, one could give Armour Piercing etc...

You mean the picture at the very bottom of this link?

http://pinsofwar.com/high-elves-leak-2/

They sure look like female models to me.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You mean the picture at the very bottom of this link?

http://pinsofwar.com/high-elves-leak-2/

They sure look like female models to me.

Yes I am at work and under the influence of allergy medication so I am far less eloquent than i should be.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Warriors of chaos swing at init 5 and S5.
I'm actually hoping white lions get a bit of a nurf. They are stupidly good for the points.

-Matt

Hmm....don't forget that it's a Mat Ward book. Maybe they get Heroic KB and cost 11 pts each.

HEs still have re-rolls, only the units with GWs will no longer receive re-reolls. Thus making phoenix guard that much better, especially if they receive unbreakable as rumored.

So stoked for this to drop tomorrow night and get the army book in my hands in a week.

 Sigvatr wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Warriors of chaos swing at init 5 and S5.
I'm actually hoping white lions get a bit of a nurf. They are stupidly good for the points.

-Matt

Hmm....don't forget that it's a Mat Ward book. Maybe they get Heroic KB and cost 11 pts each.

Nope thats only in my Dreams. But with martial prowess 21 Wl's ina 7x3 can now all attack to the front

I predict player reaction will be:

ZOMG, HE ARE THE WORST EVER. GW SUX. 8TH EDITION IS WORSE THAN A 2 YEAR OLD WITH CRAYONS TRYING TO DRAW THE SISTINE CHAPEL.

That's going to happen no matter what. So I actually want GW to nerf HE so bad that it's actually true. I want Teclis to have all 1 stats, be a lvl 1 wizard with -3 to cast and gets a miscast on any single die roll of 2 or more.

I want swordmasters to have spears and be ASF.

I HE archers to have that same rule as skaven where they can attack their own troops in combat, except only on a 1 in 6 do they actually hit the enemy cuz their hats are so big.

I want dragons to be 300 or so points but they are always sleeping.

I want HE to have no magic items at all except several duplicates from the BRB at double the cost.

Etc etc.


So when the 100% likely cries of nerf come, I can really honestly say, "yes, you are absolutely right."

furbyballer wrote:
HEs still have re-rolls, only the units with GWs will no longer receive re-reolls. Thus making phoenix guard that much better, especially if they receive unbreakable as rumored.

So stoked for this to drop tomorrow night and get the army book in my hands in a week.

Unbreakable would be pretty awesome for Pheonix Guard and it would make sense fluff-wise.

I imagine they will be more balanced and on par with other 8th Ed. books, as they should be. I would like for them to be that way, but seeing some of the new units i.e. the flying chariots of doom, makes me skeptical as to that actually happening. I am also very interested in seeing how their magic will turn out as it does need to be knocked down a few pegs, and the core/special choices better not end up like DE or that's gonna be a huge broken piece in the fabric of Warhammer Fantasy.

Also I do not want them to also be Wood Elves, these new units and their bow specialties is making me suspect that in lieu of making the Wood Elves viable again after scrapping the book 3 times, they are just going to sort of throw them into the HE and half ass the Wood Evles real book.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:

Also I do not want them to also be Wood Elves, these new units and their bow specialties is making me suspect that in lieu of making the Wood Elves viable again after scrapping the book 3 times, they are just going to sort of throw them into the HE and half ass the Wood Evles real book.

I wouldn't worry about a single shooting high elf choice completely replacing wood elves. I'd worry about wood elves just being so ignored they vanish.
I'm just going to start the rumor now that Woodelves and Brettonians will be combined into a single book. The units will stay largely the same, but the army will use the same type of rules for the general and BSB. If the generals an elf, the humans can't use the leadership, if human then elves can't use the Ld. Same goes for BSB.
If you take those two lists as is, and combine them, you get a pretty decent well rounded and well themed army.



-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Mountain-Breaker wrote:

Also I do not want them to also be Wood Elves, these new units and their bow specialties is making me suspect that in lieu of making the Wood Elves viable again after scrapping the book 3 times, they are just going to sort of throw them into the HE and half ass the Wood Evles real book.

I wouldn't worry about a single shooting high elf choice completely replacing wood elves. I'd worry about wood elves just being so ignored they vanish.
I'm just going to start the rumor now that Woodelves and Brettonians will be combined into a single book. The units will stay largely the same, but the army will use the same type of rules for the general and BSB. If the generals an elf, the humans can't use the leadership, if human then elves can't use the Ld. Same goes for BSB.
If you take those two lists as is, and combine them, you get a pretty decent well rounded and well themed army.



-Matt

It's a nice theory, but I doubt it'll happen to be honest. Brets and WE may have links, but they're still as different as chalk and cheese.

Back on the topic of High Elves, I really hope the White Lion Chariot gets significantly cheaper, or better, or both. I really love the model, but mine sits uselessly in its drawer most of the time.

Spearmen for steadfast stripping + chariot works pretty well.
I think the problem is most elf players just write off their core and don't plan on support the core, but rather plan on winning in spite of their core.

If Elves loose ASF, impact hits become more useful.

-Matt