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Well, rumours are they'll have it, but it'll be standard ASF. So White Lions will strike at Initiative. Since it's WLs who ride the Chariot, you have a point!

As long as they can no longer get an ethereal dragon with 2+ ward against magic attacks (which one of my mates seems to get off every game...) I won't mind too much.
Bringing the magic down a peg while improving their lore sounds ok, although I don't like the idea of anti-chaos spells... that kind of thing (including the anti-deamon stuff in Lore of Light) seems kinda broken to me, since there is no equivalent for the good guys to fight back with. Those evil High Elves need to be purged.

Have you seen Teclis's new rules for selecting magic?

Loremaster for High Magic (obviously)

OR

CHOOSE one spell from each of the 8 lores

Is it me or is that pretty good? And only 450pts now too.

 Flashman wrote:
Have you seen Teclis's new rules for selecting magic?

Loremaster for High Magic (obviously)

OR

CHOOSE one spell from each of the 8 lores

Is it me or is that pretty good? And only 450pts now too.

He is capable of blowing himself up now if he fails to get throne of vines off right?

Right?

One spell of each lores would be...dear god. ToV then pick your OP spells of choice from other lores. Yeah. Sure. Waiting to see the complete rules, still, but...oh lord. Mat Ward.

 Sigvatr wrote:
One spell of each lores would be...dear god. ToV then pick your OP spells of choice from other lores. Yeah. Sure. Waiting to see the complete rules, still, but...oh lord. Mat Ward.

That's official - a screen grab of Teclis's army list entry was posted in the N&R thread

It's one part of his rules, I want to see all of his rules before talking about him. He must have had some REALLY REALLY HARD nerfs to balance this advantage out.

Holy crap, how can you even balance sth. like this out? -_-

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's one part of his rules, I want to see all of his rules before talking about him. He must have had some REALLY REALLY HARD nerfs to balance this advantage out.

Holy crap, how can you even balance sth. like this out? -_-

It's easy, he's too expensive to see show up in any normal game.
I'd be far more worried about 2 slaan than 1 Teclis.

-Matt




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flashman wrote:
Have you seen Teclis's new rules for selecting magic?

Loremaster for High Magic (obviously)

OR

CHOOSE one spell from each of the 8 lores

Is it me or is that pretty good? And only 450pts now too.

"Choose" a spell is the terminology they use in 8th edition. Unless it says, don't roll, Teclis is rolling up 1 spell on 8 lores.
IMO, that's far worse than loremaster shadow, life or death.

-Matt

He's 450 points now.

I, personally, am not too worried as SC are banned anyway, but if this bears true, Mat Ward ruined balance once again.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flashman wrote:
Have you seen Teclis's new rules for selecting magic?

Loremaster for High Magic (obviously)

OR

CHOOSE one spell from each of the 8 lores

Is it me or is that pretty good? And only 450pts now too.

"Choose" a spell is the terminology they use in 8th edition. Unless it says, don't roll, Teclis is rolling up 1 spell on 8 lores.
IMO, that's far worse than loremaster shadow, life or death.

-Matt

Hmm... not quite as powerful, but 8 spells is still pretty good and odds are, one of them will be decent.

Oh, misread it then, sorry. Sounds better.

If Teclis now lost his miscast protection, we might look at a better incarnation now.

Teclis is also, effectively, a Level 5 Wizard. Personally, though, I'm not bothered how he turns out. Like Sigvatr said, SCs are usually banned and, if he is OP, I just won't use him, like I don't do now.

Anyhow, I'm more interested in the Pheonixes. At first glance they don't seem that bad to me. It's 220 for the Fire and 245 for the Ice one. The Fire one's profile is mostly 5, whereas the Ice one is mostly 6s. Attacks is a bit less, so is initiative iirc. Ld is obviously higher. Flamespyre has a nifty rule where it can pass over a unit and inflict damage which is partially based on the number of ranks it has. It also has a nifty rule where, if it dies, it can come back on a 6. Most of the time you'll be getting a 3-5, which just inflicts damage on nearby units (I think this includes friendly ones). On a 1-2 it's gone for good.

Frostheart makes every unit in BtB contact with it -1 Strength and ASL, which personally I think is awesome. Can't remember much else.

Each Pheonix also has a 5++ and a Special Rule which alters its profile based on the winds of magic. You take the highest dice roll from the Winds of Magic roll and compare it to a chart. A 1 or a 2 will have a negative effect, but a 3+ will just increase stuff. It's mostly characteristics but a 6 ups their Ward Save to 4++.

The Loremaster also looks pretty awesome. It has each of the Signature Spells from the BRB Lores and is pretty nasty in combat. I'm personally not a great fan of the model, but my extensive elf bitz box will fix that. I'm just hoping it won't be too expensive.

ASF is just standard ASF, so SM and WLs strike at initiative - presuming they're still armed with GWs. Army-wide Martial Prowess is pretty much confirmed, which, providing it works like it does now, will be awesome.

It'll be interesting to see what the Shadow Warriors and Sisters of Avelorn are like, I haven't really got much info on them. I hope the Shadow Warriors are good because, despite being rather expensive, I love the models.

If the loremasters are level 2 imagine 2 of them and teclis OMG what a nasty magic ohase! Your choices are amazing.

canadianguy wrote:
If the loremasters are level 2 imagine 2 of them and teclis OMG what a nasty magic ohase! Your choices are amazing.

Well, in the WD Battle Report, the Loremaster was a Lord Choice. So that either means there's a Level 3/4 Version of it, or the Level 2 is a Lord. The latter would make sense, but would also be kinda annoying. I plan on using a Lvl4 Life Mage and a Loremaster as my casters in my 2400pt army. Subject to change depending on the full rules of course.

If it is a lord choice only then it is pretty balanced, do they get each lore attribute as well?

canadianguy wrote:
If it is a lord choice only then it is pretty balanced, do they get each lore attribute as well?

Well, unless there's some rule dictating otherwise then yes. You use a spell from a lore, you get the effect of that Lore Attribute. The fact you have spells from other Lores is irrelevant. Being able to use all the attributes is, in itself, a pretty cool tactic: "So yeah, I feel like swapping with that guy over there, I'm just gonna cast Melkoth's..."

Anyone else notice in the rumors of spells, that high magic has 9 spells.
On the GW preview, they pan through the spell deck, which has 8 cards.
Interesting, it's 1 more spells than most lores or magic, but one of the spells from the rumor doesn't make the cut.
I'm betting that fury of khaine isn't in the lore anymore, just a bound effect of the ring. (since no other leaked items are bound spells, that seems to make the most sense).

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, if the fire in 3 ranks make it in, shadow warriors will be able to put out some decent firepower without too much frontage. Will be interesting to see if an elf gunline works (3 chariots with bolt throwers as specials, 4 repeaters as rares, a phoenix to fly over giant units, and skirmishers and fast cav as core).

Too bad high elf archers are so terribly ugly. I wonder if glade guard with a head swap would work as high elf archers.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Anyone else notice in the rumors of spells, that high magic has 9 spells.
On the GW preview, they pan through the spell deck, which has 8 cards.
Interesting, it's 1 more spells than most lores or magic, but one of the spells from the rumor doesn't make the cut.
I'm betting that fury of khaine isn't in the lore anymore, just a bound effect of the ring. (since no other leaked items are bound spells, that seems to make the most sense).

-Matt

They have two Signature Spells - Drain Magic and Soul Quench. Not sure how it will work, but I presume you can swap one spell for either, or swap two for both. Drain Magic works differently now. Basically, you just cast it on any unit (friend or foe) and, if cast, any spell currently effecting that unit is gone. You can boost the power of the spell to make it effect all units, not just a single one, within range. Soul Quench is just a Magic Missile: 2D6 S4 hits, can be boosted to inflict 4D6. So it looks like this has replaced Fury of Khaine. Drain Magic and Soul Quench are cast on a 7+ and an 8+, with the boosted versions being 14+ and 16+ (all respectively).

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, if the fire in 3 ranks make it in, shadow warriors will be able to put out some decent firepower without too much frontage. Will be interesting to see if an elf gunline works (3 chariots with bolt throwers as specials, 4 repeaters as rares, a phoenix to fly over giant units, and skirmishers and fast cav as core).

Too bad high elf archers are so terribly ugly. I wonder if glade guard with a head swap would work as high elf archers.

-Matt

Don't forget the Sisters of Avelorn!

I will be interested to see how good the bolt throwers are and, indeed, how good they are on the Skycutters. Like Matt Hutson said after the WD Battle Report, taking Bolt Throwers on the Skycutters forces them into a supportive role. They are chariots after all, so they may be better getting stuck in (possibly as a mount for a Sea Helm too).

 The Shadow wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Anyone else notice in the rumors of spells, that high magic has 9 spells.
On the GW preview, they pan through the spell deck, which has 8 cards.
Interesting, it's 1 more spells than most lores or magic, but one of the spells from the rumor doesn't make the cut.
I'm betting that fury of khaine isn't in the lore anymore, just a bound effect of the ring. (since no other leaked items are bound spells, that seems to make the most sense).

-Matt

They have two Signature Spells - Drain Magic and Soul Quench. Not sure how it will work, but I presume you can swap one spell for either, or swap two for both. Drain Magic works differently now. Basically, you just cast it on any unit (friend or foe) and, if cast, any spell currently effecting that unit is gone. You can boost the power of the spell to make it effect all units, not just a single one, within range. Soul Quench is just a Magic Missile: 2D6 S4 hits, can be boosted to inflict 4D6. So it looks like this has replaced Fury of Khaine. Drain Magic and Soul Quench are cast on a 7+ and an 8+, with the boosted versions being 14+ and 16+ (all respectively).

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, if the fire in 3 ranks make it in, shadow warriors will be able to put out some decent firepower without too much frontage. Will be interesting to see if an elf gunline works (3 chariots with bolt throwers as specials, 4 repeaters as rares, a phoenix to fly over giant units, and skirmishers and fast cav as core).

Too bad high elf archers are so terribly ugly. I wonder if glade guard with a head swap would work as high elf archers.

-Matt

Don't forget the Sisters of Avelorn!

I will be interested to see how good the bolt throwers are and, indeed, how good they are on the Skycutters. Like Matt Hutson said after the WD Battle Report, taking Bolt Throwers on the Skycutters forces them into a supportive role. They are chariots after all, so they may be better getting stuck in (possibly as a mount for a Sea Helm too).

From what I've read, the Skycutters get S5 bolt throwers. If the bolt thrower upgrade is cheap, I'd consider maxing out on them, along with 4 repeaters as rares. The repeaters don't really need to get better, they only need to get a little cheaper. With 7 bolt throwers, and then magic and skimishing scouting core (is shadow warriors do go to core), elves may be able to pull off a gunline. Shoot up an enemy until they are weak, then pile in chariots to finish them.
I don't buy that you always want to charge with chariots. Ask the Iron Blaster and Cannon of Khorne about that.

-Matt

Repeater Bolt Throwers are now 70pts

 Flashman wrote:
Repeater Bolt Throwers are now 70pts

Which is huge.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I don't buy that you always want to charge with chariots. Ask the Iron Blaster and Cannon of Khorne about that.

-Matt

They're bloody great cannons though, not bolt throwers.

Flashman wrote:Repeater Bolt Throwers are now 70pts

That's pretty good, I'll give you. If the Volley thing is similar they may indeed be worth taking. Still annoyingly expensive model-wise though. I guess you could do some converting if you got a Skycutter and didn't use the Bolt Thrower. Tbh, if you get a Skycutter, model the Sea Helm as a separate character/BSB and then use the Bolt Thrower as a normal Bolt Thrower you're actually getting pretty decent value.

Just ebay for the older ones. They look much better then the newer IMO anyways.

Also just confirmed that Shadow Warriors are, sadly, not Core Units...

 The Shadow wrote:
Also just confirmed that Shadow Warriors are, sadly, not Core Units...

No way to get them in there by taking the shadow king ?

I'm hoping for a top tier book at long last. Something that doesn't fade away in power after 2-3 other books come out like the last few HE books have and can last a full edition without getting left in the shade. Luckily, I think we have the author for the job this time.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm hoping for a top tier book at long last. Something that doesn't fade away in power after 2-3 other books come out like the last few HE books have and can last a full edition without getting left in the shade. Luckily, I think we have the author for the job this time.

Brave words

jonolikespie wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Also just confirmed that Shadow Warriors are, sadly, not Core Units...

No way to get them in there by taking the shadow king ?

That's a possibility, actually. It's also the last hope for a Shadow Warrior Army!

jonolikespie wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm hoping for a top tier book at long last. Something that doesn't fade away in power after 2-3 other books come out like the last few HE books have and can last a full edition without getting left in the shade. Luckily, I think we have the author for the job this time.

Brave words

Still, like I said before, I'd rather have an OP book than a crap one. I can make a non-TFG list out of an OP book, but I can't make a good list out of a crap book...

 jonolikespie wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm hoping for a top tier book at long last. Something that doesn't fade away in power after 2-3 other books come out like the last few HE books have and can last a full edition without getting left in the shade. Luckily, I think we have the author for the job this time.

Brave words

Want a strong book - get Ward. He does a good job for GW as they keep giving him work and big projects (both systems main rulebooks to date!), he gives them sales in return as people rush to buy the latest supertrend.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'm hoping for a top tier book at long last. Something that doesn't fade away in power after 2-3 other books come out like the last few HE books have and can last a full edition without getting left in the shade. Luckily, I think we have the author for the job this time.

Brave words

Want a strong book - get Ward. He does a good job for GW as they keep giving him work and big projects (both systems main rulebooks to date!), he gives them sales in return as people rush to buy the latest supertrend.

That's not good for the health of the competitive game scene, which is already practically on life support in my local area