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Giving Daemons a whirl against Rich and his Tyranids. I have switched out the Flesh Hounds, Heralds of Tzeentch and Plaguebearers along with a unit of Pink Horrors for Seekers, Heralds of Slaanesh and mastery level 1 on each Daemon Prince

Chaos Daemons - 2,000 points

HQ

Bloodthirster - 2 x greater rewards (blade of blood & dark blessing) & 1 x lesser reward (something cack)
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, 2 x greater rewards (corpulescence & lash of despair) & mastery level 1 (endurance)
Daemon Prince - daemonic flight, warp forged armour, 2 x greater rewards (dark blessing & lash of despair) & mastery level 1 (haemorrahge)
2 x Heralds of Slaanesh - lesser rewards (lesser etherblade), steed, exalted locus of beguilement & mastery level 2

Troops

10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors
10 x Pink Horrors

Fast Attack

16 x Seekers
16 x Seekers

Tyranids - 2,000 points

HQ

Hive Tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers & wings
Hive Tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers & wings
Hive Tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers & wings

Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon - toxin sacs & catalyst
10 x Termagants

Tervigon - toxin sacs & catalyst
10 x Termagants

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime - toxin sacs
Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers

Game: Dawn of War + Emperor's Will - night fighting is on

Deployment

Rich wins the roll off and deploys first (we stick to our table sides as my table is balanced), he gets endurance twice and iron arm once though I am not sure which creatures have which.

Rich deploys with all three of his Flyrants top right corner, in the centre in a ruin is a unit of Hive Guard and a Tervigon, out in the open three big monsters together with Termagants behind and over to the left the remaining Termagants and Hive Guard have all bunkered down in a large ruin - objective is at the top of this.

I deploy with each of my Pink Horrors bunkered down in the three ruins spread across my table; two units bunker down in the ruins on the left and right flank. On the left all three flying monsters camp behind the ruin while Seekers deploy out in the open - this unit has invisibility and hallucination. The other Seeker unit bunkers down in a ruin by my objective, which is held by Pink Horrors. This Seeker unit has puppet master and the power which makes my units fearless and regroups them.

* Tactical Notes

The Flyrants and Dakkafex are going to be my biggest problems as they can waste my infantry pretty easily. If I can get Seekers to the Dakkafex and use my flying monsters to vector strike and lash down the Flyrants, then I'll be ok.

Trygon is next as it can mash up my units pretty easily in combat, if Seekers charge it or even the Bloodthirster, I can smash it, especially if the Bloodthirster rolls a 6+ to wound - instagib!

Tervigons I am not too fussed about but if they get in my face I'll get them.

Hive Guard aren't as a big problem as the Hive Tyrants, but still can be an issue.


Turn 1

Rich flys the trio of Flyrants down the right flank towards the two Horror units in the tower ruin. Big monsters come down the centre and hold in in a bottleneck between ruins while the Carnifex takes position in a ruin in the centre. One Tervigon burns out and lingers near the table edge.

Shooting; all three Flyrants dakka the two Horror units, I go to ground for a +2 cover save and no Horrors die - I am going to snap fire at the Flyrants next turn anyway. There's some running from Tyranids but that's it.

Daemons; I fly all my monsters up the right flank towards the double Hive Guard and Carnifex, unit of invisibility Seekers casts the power ok and rolls up towards the 'Fex. Other Seekers roll out of terrain towards the Tervigon and Trygon in front of them - I want to multi assault but the Trygon is in terrain and a little further back.

Shooting; Pink Horrors in the tower blast one of the Flyrants, do pretty poor. Remaining units blast the Carnifex in order to take a wound or two off it, Carnifex makes any saves it has to take. Bloodthirster and a Prince run forwards towards the dual Hive Guard while one Prince lashes the Carnifex - it takes a wound.

Assault; Seekers charge the Carnifex, I lose one thanks to dangerous terrain and the 'Fex flattens another though the Carnifex is mush. Seekers charge the Tervigon and easily batter it.

* Tactical Notes

Right, pretty brutal first turn; Carnifex and Tervigon dead and I've lost a few perv-horses. I really cannot complain.

Next turn I'll charge the Trygon if it doesn't charge me, though I am expecting it will. Princes will go towards the warlord Flyrant and hopefully vector strike it and lash it down. Bloodthirster will drop down and hammer Hive Guard while Seekers just smash whatever they can.

Turn 2

Rich turns all Tyrants 90 degrees and flys them over towards my trio of monsters. Remaining Tervigon comes to support the Trygon along with a newly pooped out Termagant unit, I think this Tervi burns out as well.

Shooting; Tervigon, Termagants and Trygon blast the Seekers out in the open, still loads left. Tervigon does try enfeeble on the Seekers though deny the witch goes off. Flyrants dakka the Bloodthirster; first salvo the Bloodthirster loses three wounds, second salvo just one and the last salvo two - just about dies after 36 shots, damn it. Hive Guard blast some Princes though all ok.

Assault; Trygon, Termagants and Tervigon assault the Seekers - all Seekers die though both monsters walk away with two wounds lost each.

Daemons; both Princes fly over the warlord Flyrant and vector strike. Remaining Seekers fail to cast invisibility thanks to shadow in the warp and move up to mutli assault the two Hive Guard units.

Shooting; Pink Horrors blast the Trygon, deny the witch goes off twice, though I take it down to 3 wounds - passes toughness test and gains feel no pain. Princes both lash the Tervigon as it is in range - loses another wound. Princes kill the warlord Flyrant with vector strikes.

Assault; Seekers charge and mash up the Hive Guard, one remains who is in synapse and the Seekers stay locked.

* Tactical Notes

It's the second turn and I am already getting fed up of casting psychic powers on the Pink Horrors, seriously annoying getting denied, though Rich did do 5+ deny the witch with his Trygon instead of 6+ by mistake.

I am a bit gutted the Bloodthirster went down. I was hoping he would mash something up, more importantly a Flyrant if I could knock one down.

Next turn the Princes will vector strike a Flyrant and hopefully take it down, then will lash the other one. Seekers will beat the Hive Guard in assault and go for the Trygon. If I do ground a Flyrant, which is unlikely, they will go for that.

Turn 3

Rich returns the favour and vector strikes the Prince with corpulescence while the Tervigon, supporting Termagants and Trygon just piss about.

Shooting; Prince which got hit by vector strike dies - I forgot to cast endurance on it! Other Prince goes down to devourers and gets grounded, takes a wound from ground test and dies, meh.

Assault; Seekers batter the Hive Guard easily and consolidate a mighty 1".

Daemons; Seekers rumble down the hill towards the Tervigon, the Trygon is just out of terrain and with good rolls I can hit the Trygon as well, though I will lose my charge attack bonus at least I won't be shot at as I doubt the Seekers will beat the Tervigon and Trygon in combat.

Shooting; I remember to roll on the warp storm table this time and get a -1 to invulnerable saves, god damn it. Remaining shooting is just Pink Horrors shooting Termagants, one unit gets denied the witch while others leave the Termagant last one standing after it fails toughness test and another three die.

Assault; Seekers multi assault the Trygon and Tervigon, Trygon drops down to two wounds and Tervigon drops down to two. Luckily I roll three 6+ for saves in assault!

* Tactical Notes

I have got to be honest, Daemons are getting on my nerves tonight. The psychic tests and deny the witch for Pink Horrors is annoying and when they do go off they are gak at shooting anyway. The warp storm table has just screwed me over as well, brilliant.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Flyrants drop down and charge my Seekers, if they do then the Seekers are dead meat and I am left with just puny Horrors. I have no doubts that the Seekers will murder the Tervigon and Trygon in combat.

Turn 4

Flyrants drop down out the sky and mooch up towards the Seekers, one casts warp speed and gets a good roll. Termagants come towards me in attempt to get linebreaker and get closer to my objective.

Only shooting is Termagants firing into the Pink Horrors on my objective, I lose one or two.

In assault the Seekers get smashed though take down the Tervigon with them when they get an impressive 6 rends. Unfortunately they fail on the Trygon.

Daemons; all I can do is shoot at the Termagants which I fail two psychic tests, only a single Termagant remains.

* Tactical Notes

Well it all has gone a bit pete tong. Once again I forgot to roll on the warp table, though last time I did it screwed me over. Pink Horrors are letting me down big style, when they do pass psychic tests they are just rubbish are shooting.

Erm, next turn I am dead - got two Flyrants, Termagant and Trygon coming at me.

Turn 5

Basically the 'Nids come forward and blast the Pink Horrors on my objective - two remain which the Trygon assaults and mashes.

I call it a day as the remaining Pink Horror units are never going to reach my objective plus any attempt they do will be met by Flyrants and Trygon.

Tyranids pick up a victory with 5 points to 2.

Summary

What started off reasonably well turned out to be a very frustrating ending. The Chaos Daemons codex is just too random. I found making notes of psychic powers and gifts to make the game more long winded and annoying as I had to keep checking notes. I do not mind the random powers and psychic powers, but when together they are seriously annoying.

Pink Horrors were just getting on my nerves this game. Really need bigger units to get more shots, but if deny the witch happens then waste of points, admittely most units will be denying on a 6+ so not the end of the world. I think they failed three psychic tests through out the game.

Princes are ok but I forgot the psychic powers, damn it, though with psychic powers they are a big investment and biomancy only has two powers which help them survive longer.

Bloodthirster just got knocked out the sky, disappointed on this one but that's the way it rolls.

Seekers did really well. They took out two Tervigons, two Hive Guard units and a Carnifex so equal their points roughly. I noticed for Rich to kill them he had to tackle them with several units at once. The Heralds are good for the locus, but costly thanks to mastery level 2 and again that's a gamble, but the power works really well when you get it.

The Daemons need further play testing and against some other armies.

How did your seekers get first turn charges off? I like to think your opponent wouldn't just advance at you.

Good report either way, and the warp storm chart is exactly why I think Daemons make good allies.

How are the Horrors getting a 2+ cover in ruins? They should only get a 3+ in ruins if they go to ground. They'd get a 2+ behind an ADL, but not in ruins.

Night-fight.

 jy2 wrote:
Night-fight.

Ahh, missed that. Thanks.

Interesting report. It is hard with pink horrors against so many psychers that nids have. I still think they are worth it, though I usually take 1 or 2 plague squads to camp objectives as it is hard to kill them and in terrain and going to ground they have wicked saves. When I first read the codex I thought that Slaanesh got so nerfed, but I think they have their advantages, esp with heralds. Have you thought about running any grinders.. I like a tzeentch herald with prescience to run with a grinder to make it better at shooting and in CC which it is awesome at. I think thirsters are awesome, but maybe drop a DP or 2 and run some grinders, I think you will like them. just my opinion.... cheers and good luck

 undertow wrote:
How are the Horrors getting a 2+ cover in ruins? They should only get a 3+ in ruins if they go to ground. They'd get a 2+ behind an ADL, but not in ruins.

I was of the opinion that ruins automatically count as area terrain and grant a 2+ when going to ground (and also obscured by the ruin) for that reason. However, when looking through the book to find the references that I used to form that opinion, I noticed that it is only the bases of ruins with bases that count as area terrain. The ruins themselves are simply difficult. I'm the individual who misled Mercer about this, I'm afraid (sorry!). However, if the ruins do have a base, as many do, you can gain 2+ by being on the base, obscured by the ruins, and going to ground. Wreckage/rubble, which is also a very common terrain type, is 4+ area terrain and can be used in the same way, and, of course, there's the ADL. The pinkies still have a 3+ cover re-rolling ones GtG in ruins themselves, though, which is quite good. It's roughly equivalent to a plaguemarine save, but on 10 t3 bodies for 90pts instead of 5 T5 bodies for 120.

To Mercer: I think 3 or 4 units of ten pinkies should be enough. An exalted reward on one of your heralds is highly recommended, too. If you grabbed three units of ten Pink Horrors and a Portalglyph it would cost 300pts compared to your current 450pts investment in troops, be just about as effective (often more so), and let you put more points into threatening models, more than making up for the loss of the etherblade on one of your heralds. I still think you should try going for Khorne Hounds for the bolt shenanigans, and you'd be able to change your Slaanesh Heralds to Jugger Khorne heralds and upgrade your 15 Seekers to ~13 Flesh hounds with that points differential.

I'm glad to see someone doing well with Seekers. I'm determined to make them work in my Daemonette spam list, but they really disappointed me my first time out with them (charged them through cover and watched as they were killed before they could even strike--I learned my lesson there.)

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Interesting report. It is hard with pink horrors against so many psychers that nids have. I still think they are worth it, though I usually take 1 or 2 plague squads to camp objectives as it is hard to kill them and in terrain and going to ground they have wicked saves. When I first read the codex I thought that Slaanesh got so nerfed, but I think they have their advantages, esp with heralds. Have you thought about running any grinders.. I like a tzeentch herald with prescience to run with a grinder to make it better at shooting and in CC which it is awesome at. I think thirsters are awesome, but maybe drop a DP or 2 and run some grinders, I think you will like them. just my opinion.... cheers and good luck

Wasn't really shadow in the warp tbh, was just due to the amount of shots I did get and then rolls i.e got 9 shots and only hit 1! Are Pink Horrors worth it? I don't know about that but I think they are needed in a take all comers Chaos Daemons army. I still prefer them over Plaguebearers.

I have written a new list which includes two Grinders. It will add some more fire power and also large blasts. If I drop the Daemon Princes then I lose superior anti air. I did use Soul Grinders in the previous Chaos Daemons codex.

zamnath wrote:

I was of the opinion that ruins automatically count as area terrain and grant a 2+ when going to ground (and also obscured by the ruin) for that reason. However, when looking through the book to find the references that I used to form that opinion, I noticed that it is only the bases of ruins with bases that count as area terrain. The ruins themselves are simply difficult. I'm the individual who misled Mercer about this, I'm afraid (sorry!). However, if the ruins do have a base, as many do, you can gain 2+ by being on the base, obscured by the ruins, and going to ground. Wreckage/rubble, which is also a very common terrain type, is 4+ area terrain and can be used in the same way, and, of course, there's the ADL. The pinkies still have a 3+ cover re-rolling ones GtG in ruins themselves, though, which is quite good. It's roughly equivalent to a plaguemarine save, but on 10 t3 bodies for 90pts instead of 5 T5 bodies for 120.

To Mercer: I think 3 or 4 units of ten pinkies should be enough. An exalted reward on one of your heralds is highly recommended, too. If you grabbed three units of ten Pink Horrors and a Portalglyph it would cost 300pts compared to your current 450pts investment in troops, be just about as effective (often more so), and let you put more points into threatening models, more than making up for the loss of the etherblade on one of your heralds. I still think you should try going for Khorne Hounds for the bolt shenanigans, and you'd be able to change your Slaanesh Heralds to Jugger Khorne heralds and upgrade your 15 Seekers to ~13 Flesh hounds with that points differential.

I'm glad to see someone doing well with Seekers. I'm determined to make them work in my Daemonette spam list, but they really disappointed me my first time out with them (charged them through cover and watched as they were killed before they could even strike--I learned my lesson there.)

You did suggest that, however I checked in the rulebook pre-game and only ruined based are classed as area terrain. Majority of mine have bases (I class them as rubble as rubble on them) though my units were on the first and second floor. The reason they got +2 cover save was thanks to night fighting and going to ground .

The reason for larger Pink Horrors was to get extra shots, I'd take units of 13. The units of 10 are pretty meh are shooting.

I have looked at the portalglyph and it seems very randy to me. Can be taken down with a lucky shot and units only appear on a 4+ and when they do it is only D6 models anyway. I am not sold on it if I am honest.

I do like the Flesh Hounds better. The killing power of Seekers is awesome, but they are very weak and need invisibility to survive and that's another random factor with expense. Going through terrain in order to get cover is another issue for Seekers as it is dangerous terrain for them.

I have been thinking about this list lately:

HQ

Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards

Troops

13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors


Fast Attack

13 x Flesh Hounds
13 x Flesh Hounds

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment
Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment

How come you've given up on photos recently? I really liked them, felt the really improved the battle report.

Flesh hounds are really awesome, but attract a lot of fire power, which is not always bad, they just rarely survive long. I know you do not want to give up air support, but I have had really good luck with herald of khorne on juggernauts with fleshhounds, greater loci and lesser reward (take the axe swings at normal I 6 and ap2), I also like Heralds of Tzeentch for 45 points come with lvl 1 psycher which I take prescience with and use them to make the grinders better. The bad thing with the pie plate for the grinders is that it is ordinance which means you have to snap fire your mawcannon, if you want high S use the eye beam S10 ap 1 weapon otherwise the torrent flamer is nice for hordes like orks and nids and cheaper, just my opinion. I usually ally in CSM and take a drake or 2 depending on point level and try to take a DP with mace from CSM and then the lord of change from Chaos - he is a beatstick and starts at lvl 2 psycher...

CaptainJay wrote:How come you've given up on photos recently? I really liked them, felt the really improved the battle report.

I've been doing a lot of proxying lately as Ravenwing is a complete new army and looking the way Daemons are going looks like gonna be a complete army too. I didn't see much point of taking pics of proxy stuff.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Flesh hounds are really awesome, but attract a lot of fire power, which is not always bad, they just rarely survive long. I know you do not want to give up air support, but I have had really good luck with herald of khorne on juggernauts with fleshhounds, greater loci and lesser reward (take the axe swings at normal I 6 and ap2), I also like Heralds of Tzeentch for 45 points come with lvl 1 psycher which I take prescience with and use them to make the grinders better. The bad thing with the pie plate for the grinders is that it is ordinance which means you have to snap fire your mawcannon, if you want high S use the eye beam S10 ap 1 weapon otherwise the torrent flamer is nice for hordes like orks and nids and cheaper, just my opinion. I usually ally in CSM and take a drake or 2 depending on point level and try to take a DP with mace from CSM and then the lord of change from Chaos - he is a beatstick and starts at lvl 2 psycher...

Flesh Hounds are pretty cool but with two wounds a pop they certainly will survive longer than the T3 single wound Seekers.

If I had the points I probably would throw Heralds of Khorne into the Flesh Hounds; I think they would add some nice punch.

Snap firing the harvester is a bit meh, it would be one or the other. I have given the flamer a thought, though I think I can dealwith infantry enough.