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dæl wrote: People often have a go at the 80s but the decade produced some excellent music. The Smiths, Joy Division, Sonic Youth, The Pixies, REM, Jesus and Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine. It could be argued that no decade since has produced quite that number of great bands
I could easily find tons of great bands from the 60's and 70's that being said there's still some great stuff that came out the 80's, but probably most music from any decade is mediocre or worst with a few innovators popping up once in awhile.
Could you find tons of great bands post millennium though? There really doesn't seem that many, although I may just be getting old.
James Blake
Bonobo
Jose james
Kashiwa Daisuke
Toro Y Moi
Flying Lotus
How to Dress Well
The Temper Trap
Metric
Stumbleine
Caravan Palace
Helios
Amanda Mair
Black Moth Super rainbow
Hammock
Diaspora
The New Law
OST
Matryoshka
ODESZA
Justice
Ghostpoet
Junior Boys
Jamie Woon
Mint Julep
Rhian Sheehan
Polographia
Washed Out
Active Child
Kisses
Dresden
Dead Man's Bones
Regina Spektor
Kid Cudi
Muse
Pretty Lights
MGMT
feth Buttons
Monoral
Klaxons
Arcade Fire
Burial
High Contrast
Soulwax
Just a few amazing bands that started since the turn of the millenium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/14 07:56:11
I will give you the likes of bonobo, flying lotus and regina spektor are pretty good but they aren't "great"
But the likes of Muse, MGMT, and Klaxons can feth off.
There is quite a lot of that list I am unfamiliar with, this pleases me as I have some new things to listen to.
There are lots of good bands and artists of this and last decade,
Venetian Snares
Libertines
Laura Marling
Desperacidos
to name a few, but as I said earlier in the thread, the last two greats were radiohead and aphex twin.
Jeez, Beatles Beatles Beatles! They are overrated IMO. More so then KISS, but at least KISS sucked. If someone asked me on the matter, Id say fudge the Beatles, Pink Floyd gave more back to music then they ever did.
Cheesecat wrote: Just out of curiosity were the Beatles always loved by critics or were they sort of like Led Zeppelin where they were initially disliked by critics but are now considered brilliant?
It's a difficult question to answer because popular music wasn't treated very seriously by most critics in that particular era. I don't think they were disliked, but a significant number of people commented on their primitiveness early on. It's easy to forget that, compared to everything else that was going on in '62-3 the rawness and energy of the Beatles music was pretty shocking. They were viewed in some quarters as being quite aggressive-sounding. I put that largely down to Lennon's voice on tracks like this, but also Ringo's drumming:
Lennon threw his voice out singing (screaming, actually) that song with his shirt off, after recording (iirc) the other 14 tracks earlier that day. Have you heard the original? It's pretty fething limp.
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Well most generic stuff that has been made over the last decade that has been in the top charts has been overrated. The worst are artists like Justin Bieber, Nicky Minaj and Lil Wayne... Autotune... autotune everywhere. Plus Nicky Minajs looks, she looks a bit like a donkey with clownsmakeup. They make both Rebecca Blacks and David Hasselhoffs songs sound good... and that's how overrated they are..
Scratch that. Most generic stuff that has been made in most decades that has topped charts has been overrated.
What do you both mean when you say 'generic'?
The vast majority of the bubblegum-pop from the 50s, the Beatles knockoffs of the 60s (seriously, the Monkees were awful), the glam-rock imitators of the 70s that quickly went out of style, the 80s as a decade in general, and the boyband pop groups of the 90s all had a tendency to be mediocre at best.
So you mean sort of generic mainstream pop? Meh, I like it for the most part, or rather, I approve of it. It's the proving ground for innovation in production, despite what people say about it's compositional blandness. Listen again to a song like 'Single Ladies' by Beyonce. It's a fething bizarre production.
I've always been something of a pop fan.
It'll be interesting, down the line, to see what music from this era we carry over as our 'classics.'
I'm pretty sure Winehouse has secured her place, somewhat unfortunately. Radiohead, of course. Beyond that? Coldplay? Love them or loathe them, they're pretty influential. Eminem? There's a lot of good urban digital music around in the UK at present, too. I guess time will tell.
What music do you think people would have written had the beatles not existed?
Edit:Actually that last question was rhetorical.
How was that a rhetorical question? Do you want me to answer it or not, or do you think I can't answer it without weakening my argument?
I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on this. Personally I think the guitar would have been far less prevalent, there would still have been guitar music, but it wouldn't have had quite the market share of music that it has enjoyed.
My original point was that the Beatles' experiments in the studio, and the subsequent massive sales they enjoyed with the results basically created the phenomenon of the modern rock album. Previously albums didn't have an identity of their own, they were just a collection of hit singles (if the artist in question had had more than one) backed by a bunch of covers and other assorted filler. You would go into the studio and bash it out in a day, then it would hit the shelves a week later, sell a few, then disappear the week after that. Which is what people expected to happen with Please Please Me. Only problem was, a lot of the material was self-penned and brilliant, the covers transcended the originals, and the band had big hits with songs they'd written themselves. That meant they were allowed to set their own agenda to a certain extent after that, increasing over time commensurate with their success. Eventually you get artists being given the freedom to go into the studio and treat their album as a body of work, not just a vehicle for one or two hit singles. We've come full circle now, of course.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/14 12:05:43
How was that a rhetorical question? Do you want me to answer it or not, or do you think I can't answer it without weakening my argument?
I thought about it afterwords and decided that I'd rather let other people talk about different bands/singers they find overated as I don't believe we're going to agree anytime soon. I don't dislike the beatles because a lot of people like them, its just there's a lot of music that they wrote which doesn't grab me.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/14 15:25:14
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
People often have a go at the 80s but the decade produced some excellent music. The Smiths, Joy Division, Sonic Youth, The Pixies, REM, Jesus and Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine. It could be argued that no decade since has produced quite that number of great bands.
Don't forget that, for extreme metal, the 80s was where it was. You had the emergence of thrash metal, followed by black metal, followed by death metal. Venom, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Death, Morbid Angel . . . For punk, you saw the diversification of the genre from just the Ramones or Damned clones, you had hardcore, grindcore, horror punk, UK84 and melodic hardcore. There was the Misfits, Black Flag, Bad Religion, Crass, etc. running around during the decade and being active.
Scream Bloody Gore, Under The Sign of the Black Mark, Suffer, Walk Among Us, Damaged, My War etc. were released during the decade. While black metal and death metal-wise the decade was soon to be eclipsed by the 90s, what with the 2nd Wave of Black Metal and bands such as Cannibal Corpse, Nile, In Flames, Dark Tranquility etc., 80s punk is often unmatched. No Horror Punk band has bettered Walk Among Us or Earth A.D., Damaged is still probably the definitive hardcore album, Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables is still gold, Suffer sounds amazingly good and who can forget Multinational Corporations?
dæl wrote: People often have a go at the 80s but the decade produced some excellent music. The Smiths, Joy Division, Sonic Youth, The Pixies, REM, Jesus and Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine. It could be argued that no decade since has produced quite that number of great bands
I could easily find tons of great bands from the 60's and 70's that being said there's still some great stuff that came out the 80's, but probably most music from any decade is mediocre or worst with a few innovators popping up once in awhile.
Could you find tons of great bands post millennium though? There really doesn't seem that many, although I may just be getting old.
For metal, then definitely.
Eluveitie, Arkona, Ensiferum, Agalloch, Alcest and Amon Amarth have all released great albums post-millennium. Listen to "Autre Temps" by Alcest or "In the Shadow of Our Pale Companion" by Agalloch if you don't believe me.
dæl wrote: I will give you the likes of bonobo, flying lotus and regina spektor are pretty good but they aren't "great"
But the likes of Muse, MGMT, and Klaxons can feth off.
There is quite a lot of that list I am unfamiliar with, this pleases me as I have some new things to listen to.
There are lots of good bands and artists of this and last decade,
Venetian Snares
Libertines
Laura Marling
Desperacidos
to name a few, but as I said earlier in the thread, the last two greats were radiohead and aphex twin.
I would certainly consider Bonobo, James Blake, Kashiwa Daisuke, and High Contrast to have what it takes to be great.
Some of the newer posts have reminded me of more overrated bands/acts: Mumford and Sons. Boy oh boy do this band suck, the lyrics are godawful six-form (gads even GCSE) love poetry written by a boy infatuated with his english teacher. Also the various instruments all just ooze into a bland ukelele-malaise not really helped by the fact all the tunes are really similar. Finally marcus mumford's voice is the most affected fraudulent nonsense i've heard from a singer. Also he's a fat slob who seems to be constantly sweating but thats more my extreme fatist tendencies.
Burial and alot of similar artists like flying lotus and venetian snares is also something i do not understand. IMO these acts seem to be playing a joke on the listeners trying to see what dissonant collection of sounds they can pass off as music next. Bands like NIN (well, the album Ghosts), Radiohead and 'Feth' buttons (actually saw them live, supporting a band in '08) seem to understand this ambient stuff and actually make listenable chilled songs. Not a jumble of completely rhythm-less percussion and brooding synth-farts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/14 19:44:22
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
MrMoustaffa wrote: Well on the Beatles thing, there's a reason I kept typing (personal bias) because yeah, that's my opinion. But I will stand by my statement that I believe the Beatles are incredibly overrated.
For my generation (early 20's) many people that go "ERMAGERDBEATLES" have hardly listened to any of their music. They know what they've heard on the radio, and what the older generations have told them, and that's it. Many have never heard a full album, yet they'll still say it. That's the main reason I personally view them as overrated, because many of their "fans" these days just say they listen to them to be cool and hip. They have real fans out there (Albatross seems to be one ) but the vast majority are people that heard a few songs, went "eh, its alright" and got chewed out by their friends for dissing the "greatest band ever." Now that's with my generation mind you, can't speak for everyone after all.
FINALLY! Someone who gets it. This. Albatross, just go on any of the image sites throughout the Internet (Cheezburger, 9gag etc.) and just see the meme-ified textual masturbation of the Beatles, it's enough to get anyone frustrated. Esp. when these same people as described by MrMoustaffa above are of the opinion don't like the Beatles, ergo you're a fan of Bieber.
As it says above, it's not that I dislike them (they're not my style of music anyway), it's how the Internet has warped them into some kind of parody, worshipped as a god along with Grumpy Cat, Bacon and Emma Watson. It's a bit difficult to explain, it's a little like trying to explain irony, it's a lot easier to be exposed to it firsthand to see clearly what someone is rattling on about without it getting too complex.
Though, moving on...
Worst: Too many to name. To name but a few- Bieber, One Direction (mainly due to Harry Styles. He comes across as a smarmy gakker that is in the newspapers. Every. Fething. Day! ), Chris Brown (oh, CM Punk, why did you not just hurt him?), JLS, pretty much anything that is overplayed on Kerrang, so Green Day, Youmeatsix and All Time Low.
Overrated: Green Day, Youmeatsix, All Time Low, The Rolling Stones (should have retired years ago. The Simpsons was right.), The Beatles, PSY and Queen.
I would put Pitbull somewhere on this list, but Pitbull is okay in my books now due to him being able to be a good sport and going through with the Internet mob justice of sending him to an opening of a Wal-Mart in Alaska.
OH, and before I forget. Black. Veil. Brides. I don't even know where to start with that train wreck...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/14 21:41:45
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Grimtuff wrote: All Time Low...Black Veil Brides (I'm paraphrasing )
Agreed 100% on All Time Low. The major problem is is that they take the generic pop-punk song writing approach - muted verse, followed by loud chorus, along with an attempt at a solo guitar hook either at the start of the song or right after the chorus (or both). And that approach to song writing isn't actually all that bad (it's used a lot for a reason) as long as you at least make the songs different, interesting, and "your own," if you will. Doesn't help that their lyric writing is terrible either. I'm a songwriter myself and whenever I find myself slipping into that kind of formulaic and boring approach to a song I usually just axe it.
And BVB...I listened to 30 seconds of one of their songs and had to turn it off because it was just that bad. Now, granted, I did only listen to 30 seconds, so I guess I can't really judge, but still.
No, it's really that bad. I fething hate Black Veil Brides. It's taking the most commercial image ever in metal (glam + emo = their look) and selling it to 14 year old teenaged girls.
I checked them out expecting to be horrified, but they weren't all that bad. Don't get me wrong, if I was buying a copy of their record I'd hide it inside a porno mag as I left the store, to avoid embarrassment at having purchased it, but yeah... Not getting the hate.
Is this one of these ridiculous 'death to false metal' things?
I would say KISS, but I don't think they have ever been considered great musicians to begin with. Great showmen, sure, great musicians? Nah.
I would say John Mayer. He is supposed to be an egregiously talented guitar player, but I don't see it. He is technically proficient, but he lacks art, or more to wit, soul. Also, he seems like a huge donkey-cave, so that doesn't help.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Albatross wrote: I checked them out expecting to be horrified, but they weren't all that bad. Don't get me wrong, if I was buying a copy of their record I'd hide it inside a porno mag as I left the store, to avoid embarrassment at having purchased it, but yeah... Not getting the hate.
Is this one of these ridiculous 'death to false metal' things?
Kind of . . . it's hard to understand if you don't like metal, but when the listener of DSBM or artsy post-black metal is lumped with these fethers, then you may understand.
Albatross wrote: I checked them out expecting to be horrified, but they weren't all that bad. Don't get me wrong, if I was buying a copy of their record I'd hide it inside a porno mag as I left the store, to avoid embarrassment at having purchased it, but yeah... Not getting the hate.
Is this one of these ridiculous 'death to false metal' things?
Kind of . . . it's hard to understand if you don't like metal, but when the listener of DSBM or artsy post-black metal is lumped with these fethers, then you may understand.
How do you know I don't like metal? I do like metal, as it happens. It's the schlock-y, viking-obsessed, pseudo-orchestral, quasi-Nazi, Odinist Black Metal rubbish I find ridiculous. And that is only because they take themselves so seriously.
I've never heard anyone 'rate' Foo Fighters, so that one confuses me. They are well liked, but that is because they are likable with friendly personalities and an enthusiasm toward music that is generally infectious; they are the bro's of the music industry.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I would say John Mayer. He is supposed to be an egregiously talented guitar player, but I don't see it. He is technically proficient, but he lacks art, or more to wit, soul. Also, he seems like a huge donkey-cave, so that doesn't help.
He strikes me as that guy that brings his guitar to a party and hits on everyone's girlfriend. I mean, the whole point of being a musician is to get laid. I get it. But that's just d-baggery.
Albatross wrote: I checked them out expecting to be horrified, but they weren't all that bad. Don't get me wrong, if I was buying a copy of their record I'd hide it inside a porno mag as I left the store, to avoid embarrassment at having purchased it, but yeah... Not getting the hate.
Is this one of these ridiculous 'death to false metal' things?
Kind of . . . it's hard to understand if you don't like metal, but when the listener of DSBM or artsy post-black metal is lumped with these fethers, then you may understand.
How do you know I don't like metal? I do like metal, as it happens. It's the schlock-y, viking-obsessed, pseudo-orchestral, quasi-Nazi, Odinist Black Metal rubbish I find ridiculous. And that is only because they take themselves so seriously.
I mean, come on.
Well, that's Immortal. They're a bunch of jokers, really. This is the lead guy Abbath giving an interview:
Anyway, the post-black metal stuff I was talking about is more this stuff:
Which is rather artistic and beautiful in parts. Compare that to:
I've never heard anyone 'rate' Foo Fighters, so that one confuses me. They are well liked, but that is because they are likable with friendly personalities and an enthusiasm toward music that is generally infectious; they are the bro's of the music industry.
It must just be some of friends then
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Albatross wrote: I checked them out expecting to be horrified, but they weren't all that bad. Don't get me wrong, if I was buying a copy of their record I'd hide it inside a porno mag as I left the store, to avoid embarrassment at having purchased it, but yeah... Not getting the hate.
Is this one of these ridiculous 'death to false metal' things?
Kind of . . . it's hard to understand if you don't like metal, but when the listener of DSBM or artsy post-black metal is lumped with these fethers, then you may understand.
How do you know I don't like metal? I do like metal, as it happens. It's the schlock-y, viking-obsessed, pseudo-orchestral, quasi-Nazi, Odinist Black Metal rubbish I find ridiculous. And that is only because they take themselves so seriously.
I mean, come on.
I'm going to have to agree there Albatross I can't stand that gak they're try-hards, Slayer's "Reign in Blood" and Napalm Death's "Scum" is about as extreme as I can go for metal and really the main reasons I like those 2 albums is they made the wise decision to keep the songs and
albums short so it wouldn't lose it's intensity rather than drawing it out and making the song lose it's impact or feel repetitious and also there's something fun about having music so simple minded in it's dedication for speed, harshness and aggression, other than that I feel a lot of the
extreme metal (and Heavy Metal in general) feels undistinguished from each other or just plain boring or stupid. That being said Heavy Metal music rarely ever sounds smart anyways (not that it tries or necessarily should be) I like Black Sabbath but I still find the lyrics to "Iron Man" silly
despite thinking that it's a great Heavy Metal song. Can't stand glam metal as I like a certain toughness to Heavy Metal music early Heavy Metal and Judas Priest's "British Steel" (plenty of poppy hooks and an obvious attempt to make their music more commercial which actually kind of
makes it stand out from other NWOBM albums but it still sounds tough enough for me plus they actually give time to let there songs breath something a lot of there contemporaries lack) is about as poppy as I can go for Heavy Metal.
Or, more likely, this: (oh jebus, yes, this really was the most terrible thing ever created ah my ears, urgh)
Overrated?
Fething Morrisey, not the Smiths of yesteryear, but the ridiculous reverence this old tart is treated with. His daft opinions lauded as actually relevant (and half the stuff he proclaims is for attention it seems), his songs banal and tired and ridiculously precocious coming as they now do from an old man. At least the Stones know they are pantomime, this bastard still struts about thinking he's the bee's knees and he's long since become the knobbly knees. See him now in his suit, like a very very bad Brian Ferry impersonator.
He's a shitehouse.
Hmmm those two videos are pretty terrible. I think the millionaire one is worse though. It was just so...in your face, you know?
Anyway, my turn!
SLAANESH ABHORS SILENCE!
Also, any given form of Dubstep.
Overrated: Dubstep. I hate it.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I've never heard anyone 'rate' Foo Fighters, so that one confuses me. They are well liked, but that is because they are likable with friendly personalities and an enthusiasm toward music that is generally infectious; they are the bro's of the music industry.
That right there should be the Foos wiki entry. A perfect summation of the group.
I did really enjoy the first two albums when they came out, saying that, and I've seen them live. They are gak-hot musicians. But yeah, these days? They skate by on (not-inconsiderable) charm.
I have to agree whole-heartedly with Albatross on this one. British dubstep can be really, really good. It just gets a bad reputation because of bastardized brostep that somehow managed to become popular.
I have to agree whole-heartedly with Albatross on this one. British dubstep can be really, really good. It just gets a bad reputation because of bastardized brostep that somehow managed to become popular.
That may be why. I am probably more familiar with the bastardized version.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/15 21:12:45
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
) but the vast majority are people that heard a few songs, went "eh, its alright" and got chewed out by their friends for dissing the "greatest band ever." Now that's with my generation mind you, can't speak for everyone after all.
), Chris Brown (oh, 
)
~4100
~1660
The wolves are back! *feral howl* 
