Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/waterworld-slideshow

I held my bull - meter up to this one and the needle is buried all the way into the red.

Awesome story.
Reminds me of the time i was minding my mothers friends' house and i saw she had a copy of an inconvenient truth. Not being my normal reading material, I decided to have a read. First, i flicked through and thought "there are a hell of a lot of pictures in here" then started reading . I was having a good read until i got up to the pages that showed maps of water levels. I sat there looking at them thinking "something is wrong with these pictures" then it hit me the maps that showed the increased water levels were in a different scale to the originals.
It was that point that if i owned that advertising brochure it would have flown along with it's "science" to hit the wall opposite me, not being my book however i politely put it on the pile i got it from and sat there rather perturbed .

I

Really? It's just some photoshopping guys, I wouldn't get so worked up over it.

I mean, I'm guessing neither of you are climate scientists, right?

Do you really believe there is a global conspiracy of scientists?

The Jefferson Memorial looks pretty good for being a 500 year old building in those images.

edit: But I guess there is precedent for that? Wow.

 Da Boss wrote:
Really? It's just some photoshopping guys, I wouldn't get so worked up over it.

I mean, I'm guessing neither of you are climate scientists, right?

Do you really believe there is a global conspiracy of scientists?

Yes.

Edit: To clarify, I don't believe it's an orchestrated affair like some nefarious Dr. Evil plot. But there is a ton of money in pushing this quasi-science, as Al Gore has proven.

Don't you think there's quite a bit of money to be made in denying climate change as well? By the fossil fuel industry, for example?

I don't find your argument substantive. Do you know many research scientists? Most of them couldn't organise a conspiracy to hold a secret picnic, let alone something of this magnitude.

I'm willing to accept that there's some bad science involved in this in places, but the evidence is pretty overwhelming even with a few publicity addicts pushing the envelopes with some shaky studies.

Washington under water?
1. bs
2. Is that supposed to make me scared or happy?

 Da Boss wrote:
Don't you think there's quite a bit of money to be made in denying climate change as well? By the fossil fuel industry, for example?

I don't find your argument substantive. Do you know many research scientists? Most of them couldn't organise a conspiracy to hold a secret picnic, let alone something of this magnitude.

I'm willing to accept that there's some bad science involved in this in places, but the evidence is pretty overwhelming even with a few publicity addicts pushing the envelopes with some shaky studies.

I'm willing to accept, based on my own professional background and over a decade of experience in observing global weather, that there is a lot more bad science involved then you're letting on.

Especially when you have US Senators who help steer funds flat out lying about it. Such as Debbie Stabenow.

"Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I'm flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes."

As a man who has literally briefed/debriefed the weather for more then 10,000 flights this is completely bs.

Climate does not equal weather, the plural of anecdote is not data.

And politicians saying dumb things to capitalise on science does not invalidate the science.

But I doubt I'm going to change your mind, your perspective just baffles me.

I'm still trying to figure out whyshowing pictures of a flooded Washington is supposed to make me feel bad. Thats like seeing a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a lake. Its a good start!

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out whyshowing pictures of a flooded Washington is supposed to make me feel bad. Thats like seeing a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a lake. Its a good start!

Didn't you say you were a lawyer?

 djones520 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out whyshowing pictures of a flooded Washington is supposed to make me feel bad. Thats like seeing a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a lake. Its a good start!

Didn't you say you were a lawyer?

I'm also 1/4 gator on my mom's side (cajun). I enjoy lying at the bottom of unmoving bodies of water, waiting for prey er just hanging out, yea just hanging out.

 Frazzled wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out whyshowing pictures of a flooded Washington is supposed to make me feel bad. Thats like seeing a bus full of lawyers at the bottom of a lake. Its a good start!

Didn't you say you were a lawyer?

I'm also 1/4 gator on my mom's side (cajun). I enjoy lying at the bottom of unmoving bodies of water, waiting for prey er just hanging out, yea just hanging out.

So law was the perfect career path for you then.

Well it is naturally attractive to those with cold, dead hearts.

 djones520 wrote:
I'm willing to accept, based on my own professional background and over a decade of experience in observing global weather, that there is a lot more bad science involved then you're letting on.

You mean like the Climategate affair?

 Frazzled wrote:
Well it is naturally attractive to those with cold, dead hearts.

Just think, before they would have ended up as necromancers

Is global warming simply the Earth coming out of the last ice age

 chrisyella wrote:
Is global warming simply the Earth coming out of the last ice age

I think it's more complicated than that, such as massive amounts of greenhouse gases emitted into the air that absorb and reflect heat creating a warmer planet.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 chrisyella wrote:
Is global warming simply the Earth coming out of the last ice age

I think it's more complicated than that, such as massive amounts of greenhouse gases emitted into the air that absorb and reflect heat creating a warmer planet.

ahem...

IPCC AR5 draft leaked, contains game-changing admission of enhanced solar forcing – as well as a lack of warming to match model projections, and reversal on ‘extreme weather’

What should be understood is that climate change isn't specifically good or bad. Its just a thing that humans may have accelerated by an unknown amount of years. Climate change may have been accelerated by thousands of years or only a few decades.

Climate Change is also a more correct term than Global Warming, which is a deceptive label. Not all areas will get warmer. What will happen is climate zones shifting around, some areas will get drier and others will get wetter. Weather of all kinds will be more intense. Bigger monsoons, bigger winter storms, bigger hurricanes, more storms in general.

Rising sea levels will threaten coastal areas, but then again I think the idiots who thought building a below sea level city within feet of the ocean should have known better.

Its better to focus attention on how to adjust to the coming climate change not figure out how to slow or stop it, we are beyond the point of reversal.

Global Warming will eventually reverse naturally and we'll enter a new ice age. All this has happened before and will happen again. Big deal.

What gets me about "climate change" is the way that politicians use it as an absolute moral authority - something that cannot be contradicted or debated, but is an absolute fact.

And, more gratingly, the fact that this influences policy which results in a conscious decision to drive up heating and electricity prices, the end result being that British pensioners freeze to death in order to save Bangladeshi farmers.

Add to this the fact that we're told everything is because of climate change.

Warm weather? Climate change.
Cold weather? Climate change.
Windy weather? Climate change.
Calm weather? Climate change.
Floods? Climate change.
Drought? Climate change.

Ad fething nauseum. Whenever there's a poor harvest we're told it's because of climate change...because obviously poor harvests/crop failures have *never* happened before.

tldr; I'm indifferent about the effects of climate change, and annoyed by politicians weilding it as a moral authority.

Problem is these changes aren't random any more like soil erosion, extreme weather, drought, desertification, global temperature, etc is increasing at a regular rate and politicians should be concerned as our economies and lives depend on natural resources drawn from the earth.

 Cheesecat wrote:
Problem is these changes aren't random any more

Lol.

Lol lol lol. The climate isn't random any more guys. Let's all go home

They never were random, nothing in nature is truely random.

edited.

Except quantum physics. And osmosis.

Want to build up your scientific credentials some more?

Quantum physics has its own laws, far different from anything else. Thats why its such an odd thing to study, we don't know its laws and how things operate. That doesn't make it random just because we don't know the laws and it appears random. When you know very little about something, everything related to it appears random.

Cloud formations and storms surely appeared random to people several hundred years ago, yet today we know its not the case. There is a specific chain of events that causes cloud formation, and even specific types of clouds.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
Problem is these changes aren't random any more

Lol.

Lol lol lol. The climate isn't random any more guys. Let's all go home

Some of it is some of it isn't, if people notice a pattern they try to come with an explanation for it and see if it works, sometimes it's coincidence sometimes it's not and sometimes we don't know.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Quantum physics has its own laws, far different from anything else. Thats why its such an odd thing to study, we don't know its laws and how things operate. That doesn't make it random just because we don't know the laws and it appears random. When you know very little about something, everything related to it appears random.

...do you know something that Richard Feynman doesn't? Please stop casually disregarding well-established scientific prinipals for what sounds like a suspiciously religious statement (i.e. the unprovable hypothesis that there is no such thing as randomness).

Cloud formations and storms surely appeared random to people several hundred years ago, yet today we know its not the case. There is a specific chain of events that causes cloud formation, and even specific types of clouds.

And yet weather prediction is still piss-poor. They can barely predict the weather 3 days in advance, and are next to useless at predicting seasonal patterns.

Geeze, relax dude. Don't make something bigger than it is.

I didn't make something bigger than it is, but you posted something that was factually incorrect and I called you on it.

Making something bigger than it is would be like...ohh I don't know, imposing a huge financial burdon on your citizens because of the vague promise that you're helping the environment.