Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So recently i have read the novel shadows of treachery and i'm part way threw the novel betrayer and in both books it describes how these champions detest any kind of human contact and are repulsed by it. It also shows how they have no understanding of the emotions of others now these are strong and common characteristic's of autism. The final piece of evidence that convinces me that there autistic is the simple fact of there supreme natural skill for combat its well know that many severely autistic people have almost supernatural skill in specific area be it memory, drawing ect and so why not combat its just another area of skills that's natural to the human race.

What do you guys think am i right or am i just reading to far between the lines?

No. They're genetically-engineered killing machines. They have no need or desire for human contact, and, being as they are super-human, the foibles and weaknesses of lesser people are alien to their psychology.

I think it's the way bowden writes his characters. He makes characters sort of more human than what they'd normally be, in a way that you'd actually sympathize with them even though they're the badguys.

And i don't think sevatar's autistic, he's just overly sarcastic.

Yeah, I don't see how you are getting this for Kharn.

He's a World Eater, and they are all genetically altered, psychologically conditioned, surgically mutilated killing machines. I don't see him as particularly dysfunctional compared to the rest of them, and, given that he is able to fight the Nails occasionally, and recognizes the condition of his brothers, and his Primarch, I really don't see him as being less understanding of emotions than the other World Eaters (more, if anything).

Plus, I don't see Kharn as being supernaturally skilled in combat. The novel specifically mentions that he's not particularly distinguished in the sparring cages, and it makes a big deal of

No one expected Kharn to be so swift, brutal, and skilled, precisely because he hadn't been that way before. Something changed in him

No, they're perfectly normal for gentically altered killing machines. Especially genetically altered killing machines that have been lobotomized.

A normal human exibiting such traits might be autistic, or any other number of mental disorders, but when such a mental state is normal it can't be called a disorder.


All marines might be somewhat anti-social and distant if we compare them to normal humans.

In Brother's of the Snake, the main character's are invited to a social gathering but all they do is stand like statues in the middle of the room scanning the party for threats. And when the sergeant suddenly recognizes someone in the crowd and moves quickly to meet him it causes quite a stir.

This looks like a dumb thread, but i'll try not to be too harsh because whoever started it is probably a kid. Autism is more than bad social skills, as far as individuals like Sevatar I mean come on he ate people because crows told him to, this is like the son of sam guy. If were going to get all sciency on this then the best diagnosis for most of the night lords would be attachment disorder due to the environment they were born into.

Not really surprising, most humans on average express around 20 of the signs of Autism, which is why it's often misdiagnosed.

Not really surprising, most humans on average express around 20 of the signs of Autism, which is why it's often misdiagnosed.

Technically I have autism, add, adhd, ptsd, and attachment disorder ect. But these are just names that they slap on troubled kids who ideally should be given some distance and allowed to sort through whatever's messing them up.

Given that the Night Lords basically recruited from the scifi equivalent of a Romanian orphanage and the World Eaters lobotomized themselves I don't doubt that they might have had some serious mental issues.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:

Not really surprising, most humans on average express around 20 of the signs of Autism, which is why it's often misdiagnosed.

Technically I have autism, add, adhd, ptsd, and attachment disorder ect. But these are just names that they slap on troubled kids who ideally should be given some distance and allowed to sort through whatever's messing them up.

Given that the Night Lords basically recruited from the scifi equivalent of a Romanian orphanage and the World Eaters lobotomized themselves I don't doubt that they might have had some serious mental issues.

Well, yeah. Of course that says a lot when in order for a marine to have a mental disorder requires him to be a lobotomized killer. Something that even other marines would consider insane.

Well, yeah. Of course that says a lot when in order for a marine to have a mental disorder requires him to be a lobotomized killer. Something that even other marines would consider insane.

This is a dystopia universe and the HH novels have dispelled notion that it was much better in 30k, its like 1984 in space, but with human sacrifice.

I think what we should be asking is if any character in 40/30k is sane or well adjusted.

You could say the same thing of The Lion because is not great with people either. The Lion certainly is not autistic and Kharn is an absolute legend I cant believe you can even consider calling him autistic!!!

What does Kharn being an absolute legend have to do with him being autistic or not?

And the Lion is either a sociopath, autistic, or schizoid.

All Space Marines are autistic, in ADB's world. Hasn't he actually said he intentionally writes them as being "autistic"?

space marines are above humanity so why wuld they suffer from human disorders?

Having poor social skills does equate to having Autism, or Aspergerss syndrome.

OP, do you know what ether of these actually are?

I did watch the undateables but i got bored of watching it.

 Sword Of Caliban wrote:
I did watch the undateables but i got bored of watching it.

I didn't direct the question at you, I directed it at the OP.

My apologies blood reaper.

No need to, I can see why people could mistake the message for being at them.

Nobody in 40k is "autistic". Nor do they have any sexuality. These are things GW avoids.

 Sword Of Caliban wrote:
space marines are above humanity so why wuld they suffer from human disorders?

They're not "above humanity." That would imply they were some kind of next step of human evolution, which is patently not true.
Astartes are genetically modified and mentally conditioned to be shock troopers. They're expected to plunge into the worst possible situations and make bloodfountains of the enemies they encounter. While they're great at that, it stands to reason that such specialisation comes at the price of some other human qualities, such as an ability to empathise easily with other people and a greater detachment from killing and suffering than would be considered healthy in your average guy on the street. Basically, SM function extremely well in combat situations, but outside of that it stands to reason that they'd suffer, as it's out of their comfort zone.

My two youngest brothers are autistic. What the OP is describing is called an autistic savant, which is characterized by having some sort of exceptional memory or mathematical ability. The problem with trying to say that Kharn is autistic and is a combat savant is that one of the strongest indicators of autism is an inherent clumsiness. People with autism (those that actually have it, not those that are misdiagnosed) are horrifyingly clumsy. It's bad enough that Mom recently replaced ALL of her glasses and plates with plastic. Things that you or I find simple to do (like running) are nearly impossible feats for the autistic. So, no Kharn is not autistic. His hatred of human contact and lack of recognizable emotions are more indicative of sociopathy than anything.

If i am correct the World Eater chapter all under go lobotomies to make them killing machines like angron and with lobotomies it could damage who knows what.

 MMJ24 wrote:
If i am correct the World Eater chapter all under go lobotomies to make them killing machines like angron and with lobotomies it could damage who knows what.

I think the specifics of it were that the procedure removed the bits of the brain that recognised fear and danger, and heightened the bits that linked the adrenaline rush of combat to pleasure.
Basically, yeah, they're batgak insane.

 Harriticus wrote:
Nobody in 40k is "autistic". Nor do they have any sexuality. These are things GW avoids.

Black Library doesn't avoid sex, at least Abnett doesn't.

Nor does ADB, or Graham McNeill. Graham McNeill takes it to positively deviant levels.

No just no, having worked with people who have autisem none of the mentioned characthers have said disorder. Nor do I like it when people claim fictional characthers has it

 Harriticus wrote:
Nobody in 40k is "autistic". Nor do they have any sexuality. These are things GW avoids.

I can see saying Games Workshop avoids it (Although, you know, Slaanesh), but the Black Library has tons of stories of characters getting romantically involved, and we're talking about the Black Library depictions of characters.

Anyway, I think space marines in general have horrible problems communicating with people. I don't really know if that makes them autistic so much as it is an effect of their loss of sex drive, harsh training, physical differences, etc.

 Trondheim wrote:
No just no, having worked with people who have autisem none of the mentioned characthers have said disorder. Nor do I like it when people claim fictional characthers has it

Just out of curiosity, why?

I actually think that all Space marines are inherently damaged in some way, when it comes to comparing them with normal humans. They have had facets of their personality driven towards one extreme or another, at the cost of others being downright atrophied. And horrifyingly, the rest of the Imperium is glad for it.

Instead of being shining exampled of humanity, I see them as tragically flawed beings, which are constantly relied upon by normal humans to be their living weapons and nothing more. It fits with the general dystopic feel of 40K, but I think the only reason Space Marines are not all suicidally depressed is because of their indoctrination.

Imagine how a gun or sword would feel if it could have human intelligence, but you made it constantly and abundantly clear that you will only ever take it out of the box to use it as a tool and nothing more, and then put it away until you needed it next, with no thoughts or care about it in the meantime while you are living your happy life. It would not exactly be in touch with "what's normal".

Yes.

In this blog post, Aaron Dembski-Bowden talks about purposefully writing many Astartes characters as autistic.