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2015/04/16 15:23:58
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
Apr 16 2015
Wow Hawk Wargames Urban War Battle Boards Pre Order madness thank you!
6 Comments
1 like
Hey All,
Really quick update!
Just a big thank you to so many of you who pre-ordered the boards. We think we will sell out soon . Seriously thanks to you for your amazing support and the gaming community.. really lifts our spirits up here . But we still have much work to do and will insure all backers get their hawk urban wars before the retail date easy!
Just a recap of what we have been through to get these out:
- Floods
- After visiting plant post floods decided to to remake all the board
- re-did molds for better board integrity
- re-did entire injection process
- re- painting process all the new boards , supplier kept delaying delivery time again and again. Got a lot of errors in relaying delivery times to our backers because of this... too many.
- re- packing and QC checking, with new implementations from previous highly successful fulfilled KS's we did
- Sent out Hawk Urban War battle boards via a slow bulk shipping rate fee to make sure we can afford to send these out.
- Hawk Urban War Battle boards to be fully fulfilled prior retail release date. Insuring all backers get their boards first 100%.
All of the above at no extra cost to our awesome backers. It's been a feat but not an easy one.
After Service:
Those who are have not had their slick Hawk Wargames battle board yet. All PMs from 12am Last night have been answered. I have sent inquiries and will correspond with you via PM we got you.
All Pm's post 12am today will start replying 8pm tonight.
If you haven't got your Hawk Urban War battle board, Don't Panic, they are in transit and will be with you. They are on their way and we have a tracked record of fullfilling gears 100% once they have been dispatched.
If you are still unhappy with not having your Hawk Wargames Urban War Battle Board with you at this moment and unhappy to wait any longer. We can attempt a recall from the forwarder and refund you if we are able to. They are in transit and will turn up well before the retail release date (31st of May). Please PM us before 6pm on the 18th of April 2015 about this as it may not be possible if it is a few days away from you. PM us and we can see what we can do, we will try our best even at this stage. If we cannot do it because it is in transit, and not a missed delivery or delivery error, please wait will be with you within the period of grace. We are working really hard to insure you get sorted and you will well get them before the period of grace ends. So we kindly really do hope we have your patience.
Please bear in mind what we have been through has been exceptional in terms of turning it around and we have not delivered any Hawk Urban War battle Boards to non backers. You get yours first. So we are doing the best we humanely can.
For those of you who have got yours or are turning up will post this video as a reminder:
Just a quick update.
Another one to come tomorrow!
Yours,
Alice
"Next Generation Battle Boards, Enhancing The Game To The Next Level."
2015/04/16 15:30:44
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
Apr 16 2015
Wow Hawk Wargames Urban War Battle Boards Pre Order madness thank you!
6 Comments
1 like
Hey All,
Really quick update!
Just a big thank you to so many of you who pre-ordered the boards. We think we will sell out soon . Seriously thanks to you for your amazing support and the gaming community.. really lifts our spirits up here . But we still have much work to do and will insure all backers get their hawk urban wars before the retail date easy!
Just a recap of what we have been through to get these out:
- Floods
- After visiting plant post floods decided to to remake all the board
- re-did molds for better board integrity
- re-did entire injection process
- re- painting process all the new boards , supplier kept delaying delivery time again and again. Got a lot of errors in relaying delivery times to our backers because of this... too many.
- re- packing and QC checking, with new implementations from previous highly successful fulfilled KS's we did
- Sent out Hawk Urban War battle boards via a slow bulk shipping rate fee to make sure we can afford to send these out.
- Hawk Urban War Battle boards to be fully fulfilled prior retail release date. Insuring all backers get their boards first 100%.
All of the above at no extra cost to our awesome backers. It's been a feat but not an easy one.
So they designed, made, checked, and supposedly shipped the boards. Um... I know I'm not the most experienced KS backer (only two projects so far) but... what exactly in that list should NOT be included in the kickstarter contract they agreed to with backers? I don't see anything that should ever be at "extra cost to our awesome backers".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ignatius-Grulgor wrote: Another update is up, seems they might sell out of boards as pre-orders are going so well, as if telling us that is somehow a positive thing for us.
Look on the bright side... maybe one of the preorder customers will post pics of their board when he/she gets it and you'll see what you're actually getting eventually. :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/16 16:19:29
2015/04/16 16:57:29
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
this has an almost meme like quality to it, well done G&G
I lol'd I didn't want to but at this point it's laugh or lose your sanity.
You can always do both....
The Auld Grump, I stopped trusting G&G during the brush fiasco - and have seen nothing to change that lack of trust...
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2015/04/16 19:37:34
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
G&G released a series of badly made double ended brushes - they gave replacements, and the replacements often had the same problem.
It was not a matter of folks not getting them in a timely fashion, it was a matter of people getting really crappy brushes.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2015/04/16 19:51:46
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
One of the two people that I know who backed the Kickstarter did get replacements - the other just relegated the brushes to being used for glue.
The one that bothered getting replacements was not above making a stink about shoddy product.
As far as I know those brushes have all been relegated to the dust bin - but on the plus side, people's comments on those brushes introduced me to Rosemary & Co . - manufacturers of very good brushes at reasonable prices.
Neither of those backers have bothered with G&G since - the company had one chance to make a first impression, and that impression was not a favorable one. As a result a group of some twenty miniature painters will never buy any brushes from G&G.
Me, I just added them to the list of companies that I will never buy anything from at all. (A fairly short list.)
The idea of double ended brushes never struck me as a good one to begin with - and I still see no reason why I would want them.
The Auld Grump
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/16 20:05:21
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2015/04/16 21:05:56
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
I can't believe anyone would be foolish enough to preorder any of these boards through their website. Nothing this company has done has been on the up and up.
A fool and their money...
2015/04/17 07:27:39
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
inquisitorlewis wrote: I can't believe anyone would be foolish enough to preorder any of these boards through their website. Nothing this company has done has been on the up and up.
A fool and their money...
HL Mencken wrote:No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
TheAuldGrump wrote: G&G released a series of badly made double ended brushes - they gave replacements, and the replacements often had the same problem.
It was not a matter of folks not getting them in a timely fashion, it was a matter of people getting really crappy brushes.
The Auld Grump
Huh, I love mine.
So much so that I got the Ichiban brushes which are also excellent.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/04/17 20:10:08
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
Pete Melvin wrote: These guys are the absolute worst. That summary that one of the backers has put up in blog is a monument to G&G's non stop lies.
Spoilered below:
Spoiler:
Nov 2014 - Kickstarter funds within 12 hours, promising to deliver the next generation of tabletop boards
24/12/2014 - Kickstarter successfully funded
22/01/2014 - Backers Kit locked down, no more addons can be selected
20/02/2014 - Battle Boards in molding process, on schedule to deliver May 2014
01/03/2014 - Still in mold making process, we are told that this is the longest process of the production and that the mass production process thereafter is quite fast. Told that some may even deliver earlier than the May 2014 deadline!
14/03/2014 - We are told that we will be given a battle board carrying box for free as a packaging solution. This will be a sturdy box with a plastic handle.
01/04/2014 - We are told that we are on target for May 2014 dispatch, Molds are nearly done and then mass production will be a few days. Painting will take place during April and all will be completed during this time.
01/05/2014 - Everything still on track for dispatch during May
16/05/2014 - Some severe flooding in the area of China the boards are being painted, according to news reports caused by poor drainage systems during monsoon season. Production is untouched, but 30% of the cardboard boxes are ruined and approx 20% of the boards themselves.
Estimated a 25 day delay as will need to be repainted.
26/05/2014 - Battle Boards getting back on track, We are told they are a week behind schedule on Urban War Battle Boards but that they will be dispatched in July
07/07/2014 - Battle Boards should be with you August / September
23/08/2014 - Battle Boards estimated shipping late September. Delivery time quoted as 4-12 days to the EU
08/10/2014 - Boards not dispatched yet. We are told they are trying to ensure they can ship them at a price which will ensure the kickstarter is kept in the black.
18/10/2014 - Boars almost ready for dispatch
04/11/2014 - Boards sent to Port in China. We're told once they're in the UK warehouse it'll take a week to repack and re-check, following which we will get a 1 day delivery from TNT.
05/12/2014 - Boards should be in the UK this week, then will need sorting and should dispatch January after Christmas holidays. "Even with possible port delays or customs delays it's still on it's way for us to get the gears rolling for Jan 2015 dispatch to your door"
19/12/2014 - Boards are at the UK Warehouse
17/01/2015 - Boards have ALL?!? been unpacked, quality checked, then packed back in their boxes. Should be completed early next week.
28/01/2015 - Dispatch estimate now of February 2015, hoping to make delivery 2-4 days instead of 5-25
09/02/2015 - Boards will be dispatched wc 20th February, new delivery date of Mid-Late March
09/03/2015 - Boards all dispatched, delivery is 5-25 days and everyone should have theirs by 15th April 2015
13/03/2015 - Exciting times, "all boards will be with you by or before April the 15th" Battleboard clips sent separately from China and should be here within 10-20 days.
01/04/2015 - Quote: "As per previous update please allow your Urban Wars to get to you by the 15th of April 2015. We understand there is a lot of excitement and frustration in getting your boards now but they are coming to you, all shipping is prepaid so they have to get to you by the deadline date at least. "
So it's now the 16th April, I've not received anything, neither has anyone who's posting on the Kickstarter comments, I have not had the clips either that apparently were sent separately from China.
Oh man, that's depressing!
This was an interesting comment posted yesterday:
Mark W 1 day ago
Hi all
I have just spent 30 minutes on the phone to Sam from Games and Gears. We had a good in depth conversation around communications, delivery issues and the state of play.
He confirmed to me that the first boards are on the way and that they are as disappointed as us around the delays and issues that we are all suffering. He confirmed that the postage plan as laid out by Alice is accurate and is still their target. He fully expects this all to be complete by Jun.
My main challenge to Sam was around the communications, transparency and drip feed of bad news. He took that well, and openly admitted that this is not his strong point (I know that most of you will say no sh1t at that point!). He has complete faith in his product and is adamant that once we start to receive it the bad perceptions will fall away. I have advised him that in the absence of clarity we have all thought the worst and therefore we have all pushed for more detail to satisfy ourselves that this is still a viable project. Where that detail has not been forthcoming things have snowballed into the situation we find ourselves today.
In response to my challenge he has promised to get pictures of all boards, painted and unpainted, in an update to us all. He has given an undertaken to take more of a grip on communications and start giving proper feedback and be more open. He confirmed that the boards have gone through the exhaustive QC process - this is due to his worries over defect rates and his inherent pride in his project. It is more his inability to produce a decent photo that has stopped any pictures rather than anything sinister, that and his view that a picture would not do them justice. I have advised him that the implied message in that is that he is not proud of his own product - which after speaking to him, I can promise you he comes across as a very proud manufacturer. He is going to be at Salute and we have arranged to meet up.
He has undertaken/promised to give us all a full and frank update, with pictures within 7 days. I ask you all to give him some room, time and slack to do so. I know some of you are not going to be happy with that, but he is feeling the pressure of the negative comments on here. He is not happy with what has happened and as I say he hoped that by having the product in our hands this malcontent would fall away.
I have long said this is more cock-up than conspiracy, and after speaking to Sam I am a lot more content that I will receive a set of quality products, just later than anyone had planned. Ultimately that is all that we want - we wanted them earlier of course, but the desired outcome is to play on these boards.
Of course, I have no empirical or hard evidence to back this up - just my gut feel from talking to someone who came over as proud in their product, frustrated in the current position and slightly out of his depth in terms of how to run a customer facing communication strategy and business.
I hope this helps my fellow backers and we all look back on this one day from a happy place
I actually got to meet and speak to Sam in-person at AdeptiCon. He was really nice, but I don't think that the lack of answers is due to Alice handling communications at all (as some commentors have said)... Sam was hard to pin down on answers even though he was really nice to talk to. I think the lack of transparency is really from the top down...
Obviously, they've missed so very many deadlines that it's hard to keep any faith. But, new pictures of all the board themes within 7 days (6 days now) would be most welcome. We'll see if they deliver any pictures at all... I said that to Sam in-person at AdeptiCon too.
But even there, where there were apparently 2 sets of DzC boards in use, no pictures were taken, and I couldn't take any due to manning my ModCube booth most of that day! I had specifically asked him to ship those 2 sets (which were intended to be my sets and I had promised to AdeptiCon to use for the DzC tourney). But somehow, I didn't get to keep these boards afterwards (they were sent to some other studio to take pictures of, he said) and I thus never even got to see them! I didn't really mind, since I flew and would have had to ship them home... but, it's just one of those things that is a bit of a pattern. They have repeatedly offered terrain instead when I pushed them to get the boards to AdeptiCon in-time to use, and Sam even offered me some brushes on the spot when saying he gave the boards to the studios... but I think what is getting missed, is folks just want the boards, not other things - and more than that, they just want straight answers. I think it's pretty obvious they did not ship as long ago as was stated, and without taking pictures, people really have no idea if the things even exist!
So, they need to work on being more honest and straightforward - this really isn't something to work on, either, just say when the boards really will ship, and take some pictures to prove it... drama over! I hope they have learned and will do this, but they really must change their pattern... it's getting a bit late in the day to save face here, but they could still do it with an about-face on communications, imo. Again, not blaming Alice - she's just doing her job - and Sam is a really nice guy, but the honesty needs to be considered paramount, not telling people what they want to hear (as eventually, they don't want to hear anything anymore).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/17 20:10:53
2015/04/17 21:12:36
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
I'd agree if boards had been shipped somebody would have got something...
and would have posted either in excitement or in frothing-gamer rage depending on what the quality was like even if they didn't do the full unboxing and photos route
no info means no boards arriving (so far)
I hope they didn't end up on some ultra bargain basement shipping service like I've used from china for scale model kits that chugged over very slowly by boat arriving about 8-9 months later (but postage was so cheap..)
2015/04/21 08:02:28
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
So apparently we will get details of how much longer we have to wait on Weds. A full week after the final delivery date.
Who knows what we will be told then?
Personally I strongly suspect the boards have never been in the UK at all, and that someone made that up at some point to make it seem like there was progress, and no-one at G&G has ever dared to go back on that.
I cannot believe there is any shipping service in the UK that would take a great pile of big boxes on March 9th and fail to deliver any of them by 21st April. They would essentially just be warehousing the boxes.
Slinky wrote: So apparently we will get details of how much longer we have to wait on Weds. A full week after the final delivery date.
Who knows what we will be told then?
Personally I strongly suspect the boards have never been in the UK at all, and that someone made that up at some point to make it seem like there was progress, and no-one at G&G has ever dared to go back on that.
I cannot believe there is any shipping service in the UK that would take a great pile of big boxes on March 9th and fail to deliver any of them by 21st April. They would essentially just be warehousing the boxes.
Man, I hope that does not turn out to be the case... but if it is, I really hope they will just be honest about it. They really need to come clean about where they are at in fulfillment - I can take more delays if I can plan for them, what I can't take is being told every month that it's coming next month!
2015/04/22 09:01:18
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
I had a look to see if that was a shill account. Looks like they've backed a variety of gaming KS both prior to and after the G&G fiasco. I suppose it still could be, but unlikely.
So one down and however many hundred to go. Suspicious that someone from Singapore got their first, almost as if the boards were coming from China all along....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/22 10:42:10
Note the comment on one "As plain raw grey plastic as it gets."
Now back in February when they put out the photos, I asked:
Richard Davies on February 6
Are the grey areas (pavements/ sidewalks) painted or bare grey plastic? Visually disappointing vs the initial images shown. At least if they are painted grey they will be easy to weather and re-paint, but if it's bare plastic, it means masking off the roads to primer the rest.
Can this sort of picture be done for any of the other boards at this point? Would be nice to have an idea of the work I'll need to put into the Anima boards too - especially for boards coming to the UK after Salute (April) so I can stock up on any supplies needed.
and got the reply:
Creator Games & Gears on February 6
Can comfirm 100% the grey is painted grey .
To borrow a phrase that's doing the rounds about my local MP, Games and Gears are lying liars that tell lies. I'd still have bought this product if they'd have told the truth from the beginning, but after taking delivery of my boards, I'll go out of my way to ensure I don't spend another penny with G&G.
I'm pretty glad I dropped my pledge on this one before it ended. I would pretty upset if I though I had paid for painted tiles, waited as long as you all are, and then got that.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/04/23 08:33:30
Subject: Re:Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
Just realised that we've gone from the original estimate of 5-25 working days (already extremely high for shipping from one UK address to another) to 42-48 working days.
CptJake wrote: Wow, the one tile is completely unpainted.
I'm pretty glad I dropped my pledge on this one before it ended. I would pretty upset if I though I had paid for painted tiles, waited as long as you all are, and then got that.
Err that was a big deal that backers were vocal about that not being painted because a lot of them wanted ponds/lakes/etc.
I remember that's specifically the reason I almost got it as a third board.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/04/23 13:48:21
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
CptJake wrote: Wow, the one tile is completely unpainted.
I'm pretty glad I dropped my pledge on this one before it ended. I would pretty upset if I though I had paid for painted tiles, waited as long as you all are, and then got that.
Err that was a big deal that backers were vocal about that not being painted because a lot of them wanted ponds/lakes/etc.
I remember that's specifically the reason I almost got it as a third board.
Yeah, the park/grass/water/whatever area, but that only makes up a portion of that tile. Lots of pavement/walkways on that tile too, and they are bare.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/04/23 14:43:15
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
It's been 7 days since the comment was posted that they would update with pictures of everything in 7 days, so I've asked about it in the comments. I would really love to get a clear, honest timeline so I can just forget about this for 3 - 4 months or whatever, and just know the DzC boards will arrive in July or August or whenever is realistic. Being strung along with "a few weeks after the urban boards" for months now, which themselves have just slipped at least another month, is just killing me :-/
2015/04/24 08:49:01
Subject: Games & Gears Kickstarer Battleboards - (Ends on 12/24/13)
You pay for cheapness with uncertainty and delay, keep that in mind and the delays aren't a problem.
I am in for two board sets, I will get them someday soon. Combining to G&G wont speed that up, in fact it will likely slow things down.
It doesn't help that I know Sam from G&G personally, and while he is a fun likeable guy getting him to stick to a deal is like playing Twister with eels.
If you want any meaningful results bypass him and ask to speak to the owner.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
. Seriously thanks to you for your amazing support and the gaming community.. really lifts our spirits up here 
. But we still have much work to do and will insure all backers get their hawk urban wars before the retail date easy!
8000
by the deadline date at least. "
