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They are not the best, but I think one of them for sure.

Heres my point though, in a codex that has so much random nature built into it and generally won't consistantly play in a 7-8 round tournament due to that fact, I would not be concerned with 1 or 2 mismatches.

Nids, wreck demons, they did before and the new codex isn't going to change that fact. Poison and free bodies that don't die from combat resolution is always going to out perform demons. I think many lists will have trouble killing a unit with that much speed and 40 wounds with a 5++ I agree a LOC casting divination on them is great but most armies simply can't kill that many bodies efficiently in a 5 turn game once they close. I could be way off, but I think they merit testing before being written off.

 Red Corsair wrote:
They are not the best, but I think one of them for sure.

Heres my point though, in a codex that has so much random nature built into it and generally won't consistantly play in a 7-8 round tournament due to that fact, I would not be concerned with 1 or 2 mismatches.

Nids, wreck demons, they did before and the new codex isn't going to change that fact. Poison and free bodies that don't die from combat resolution is always going to out perform demons. I think many lists will have trouble killing a unit with that much speed and 40 wounds with a 5++ I agree a LOC casting divination on them is great but most armies simply can't kill that many bodies efficiently in a 5 turn game once they close. I could be way off, but I think they merit testing before being written off.

I must admit that I am a little biased in my opinion. That is because I think my armies can handle them without much issue. Scout forwards and my flyrants will be within charge range of them. Then with Enfeeble going off (it can still go off against the Collar of Khorne), I can insta-kill a few before deciding if I want to charge them or not. Or I can hold them off for 1 turn with my spawned gribblies. That is, of course, after firing at them for 1 turn. Or I can lock up that 320-pt unit + 100-pt+ Herald/Karanak with an Iron Armed terivgon, thus allowing my flyrants to be free to roam around killing the rest of the army. And with Shadows, it won't be that easy for daemons to get off their powers.

With my necrons, dogs have nothing to assault really besides wraiths and annihilation barges. Wraiths with D-lord will win that battle of attrition, especially after you factor in Daemonic Instability. Whereas AB's and night scythes will be free shoot down the rest of the army. Once again, if dogs scout forwards, wraiths should be getting the charge. More importantly, necrons have the mobility to break free from the dragnet caused by this type of daemon build. You just can't box them in.

As for daemon-on-daemon, soul grinders will make those dogs cry. FMC's will get the charge off against them and will make beat them through combat res. They just don't have enough offense to reliably take on T6 MC's with multiple buffs on them (re-roll Inv's, FNP 4+, psychic buffs).

Can a dog-heavy daemon list still work? You bet'cha. They are still a good army. Moreover, when daemons are rolling well, they can beat any army in the game, including any of my tournament armies. However, given average rolls, none of my Xenos armies are at all concerned with a dog-heavy daemons list. Rather, I fear a more balanced daemon list with some shooting as well.

I agree, I think that the necrons won't auto beat them though, I don't think the shooting is nearly as big a factor from the NS and I am actually curious how well that unit can hurt a wraith star on the charge, It has a lot of attacks with the rage locus and hits on 3 and wounds on 3's. Prescience would definitely help. I'd like to see it either way actually.

You're right. It is by no means an auto-win for necrons. Of my 3 xenos armies, actually the crons may have the toughest times against daemons. They do have problems against tough, psychic heavy armies like tyranids and now daemons. However, they do have all the tools necessary to fight and beat the warped ones. It won't be a walk-in-the-park but it is certainly doable.

One of the great things about Khorne dogs is they can reliably multi assault. This means that they are less likely to be left standing in the open the next turn. They have fleet so they can reroll all the dice for the charge distance and they are multi wound so they are very resilient versus Overwatch. I would rather use the points elsewhere instead of attaching a Herald mounted on a juggernaught.

@jy2: You may want to reread what I said. 1 or 2 units... 16 Hounds > Tz. Biomancy Prince any day of the week.

 hippesthippo wrote:
@jy2: You may want to reread what I said. 1 or 2 units... 16 Hounds > Tz. Biomancy Prince any day of the week.

1-2 units of hounds are ok. They are a good unit to have, but like I said, I wouldn't spam them. I wouldn't say 1 unit is better than the other. Rather I look at the army on the whole. Depending on your army build, sometimes the hounds make more sense and sometimes the DP makes more sense. It all depends on what the list is trying to accomplish.