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I have a group of friends I've been playing tabletop stuff with for the last 2 years. At first, we played only and exclusively 40K. In that time, our interests have grown and we have gradually started playing other tabletop games. Warmachine, Flames of War, and X-Wing have become staples for our game days, and we're now heavily consdering other game systems as well like Dust Tactics, Battlegroup Kursk, and Warhammer Fantasy.

On top of actual game systems there's also a slew of new minis manufacturers as well. I absolutely love Plastic Soldier Company for my WW2 stuff, and we're seeing some great minis from 3rd party manufacturers like Dream Forge Games who are now pushing that killer looking Eisenkern Stormtrooper set.

What do you guys think of the current state of the hobby? Is this a golden age, or do you guys have fonder memories of days long gone? I only started playing war games in 2010 so I'm a lot newer to this than a lot of people on this board, and I'm interested in your opinions. Discuss!

If it's a golden age then it's a quiet one. Were it not for internet I wouldn't have heard of any of those games.

Maybe in 10 or 15 years time when those games are bigger. Maybe.

I'd say so.

The recent advances in plastic technology has allowed more and more companies to put out product in something other than annoying metal or dubious resin (with one glaringly fine exception, it seems...).

There’s more choice out there than any time I’ve looked, and aside from the tiresome GW vs PP crap that I guess will last until either company folds a far greater emphasis on trying new things rather than the “No you must play this and only this”.

That’s a good thing!

 BryllCream wrote:
If it's a golden age then it's a quiet one. Were it not for internet I wouldn't have heard of any of those games.

Just a question - where do you game? If you game at a GW store, and only converse with GW playing friends, you have no reason to even look outside of GW threads on forums.

My FLGS bombards you with everything from the moment you walk in. You enter through the gaming hall, and there's posters for all different games on the walls, about a dozen tables generally with half a dozen different game systems getting played on a semi busy day. When you walk into the shop front, the GW stuff is actually down the back, so you walk past aisles of Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War, Dropzone Commander, Dystopian Wars and all sorts of 3rd party bits and smaller games and board games. There's display tables up with not only 40k and Fantasy (40k's starter display is actually still Black Reach) but also Dropzone Commander. The front of the store has basically every brand of paint and gaming supply outside of Reapers stuff (which they admit is simply due to redundancy).

I can't imagine other non-GW gaming stores being much different.

 -Loki- wrote:

Just a question - where do you game?.

At the moment...Warhammer World.

The UK doesn't really do FLGSs. I've been in one in my entire life and it was...just weird. Like really weird.

 -Loki- wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If it's a golden age then it's a quiet one. Were it not for internet I wouldn't have heard of any of those games.

Just a question - where do you game? If you game at a GW store, and only converse with GW playing friends, you have no reason to even look outside of GW threads on forums.

My FLGS bombards you with everything from the moment you walk in. You enter through the gaming hall, and there's posters for all different games on the walls, about a dozen tables generally with half a dozen different game systems getting played on a semi busy day. When you walk into the shop front, the GW stuff is actually down the back, so you walk past aisles of Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War, Dropzone Commander, Dystopian Wars and all sorts of 3rd party bits and smaller games and board games. There's display tables up with not only 40k and Fantasy (40k's starter display is actually still Black Reach) but also Dropzone Commander. The front of the store has basically every brand of paint and gaming supply outside of Reapers stuff (which they admit is simply due to redundancy).

I can't imagine other non-GW gaming stores being much different.

GW is very dominant in the UK. FLGS are few and far between. I've only visited one (Darksphere) and that was in London. I concur, that if it weren't for the internet, I'd be very ignorant of alternative war games.

 BryllCream wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Just a question - where do you game?.

At the moment...Warhammer World.

The UK doesn't really do FLGSs. I've been in one in my entire life and it was...just weird. Like really weird.

Which explains why you need the internet to find out about other games - your location, and obviously your selection of opponents, live and breathe GW.

Note the amount GW has been reducing gaming space in stores recently and sending gamers to game at independants or at home or clubs.

Stating it's not a golden age because you had to use the internet to find out about is a tad arrogant - your hobby is extremely sheltered. The average player is now more likely to find out about competing games simply because GW is driving their customers out of their stores if they want to actually game with their products.

 Flashman wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If it's a golden age then it's a quiet one. Were it not for internet I wouldn't have heard of any of those games.

Just a question - where do you game? If you game at a GW store, and only converse with GW playing friends, you have no reason to even look outside of GW threads on forums.

My FLGS bombards you with everything from the moment you walk in. You enter through the gaming hall, and there's posters for all different games on the walls, about a dozen tables generally with half a dozen different game systems getting played on a semi busy day. When you walk into the shop front, the GW stuff is actually down the back, so you walk past aisles of Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War, Dropzone Commander, Dystopian Wars and all sorts of 3rd party bits and smaller games and board games. There's display tables up with not only 40k and Fantasy (40k's starter display is actually still Black Reach) but also Dropzone Commander. The front of the store has basically every brand of paint and gaming supply outside of Reapers stuff (which they admit is simply due to redundancy).

I can't imagine other non-GW gaming stores being much different.

GW is very dominant in the UK. FLGS are few and far between. I've only visited one (Darksphere) and that was in London. I concur, that if it weren't for the internet, I'd be very ignorant of alternative war games.

Well, then obviously the situation is going to be different in different places.

In the US, there's gakloads of independent stores (far more than GWs; I didn't even know GW had stores until I had been playing 40K for two or so years), and in my experience, there's a plethora of non-GW games being played. At my FLGS of choice, Warmahordes and Malifaux are extremely popular and played regularly every week. I haven't been to my hometown in almost two years, but I'll be heading back this summer for a bit; looking at the websites for the FLGS there, it looks like in addition to 40K, people are playing Malifaux, Warmahordes, and Flames of War, and there appear to be small contingents of Infinity and Dust Warfare players; no regular night advertised as "Dust Night" or "Infinity Night", but some recent posts on their forums expressing interest, along with X-Wing.


Are we in a golden age right now? Dunno. Are we at the very least on the cusp of one? IMO we absolutely are.

 BryllCream wrote:
At the moment...Warhammer World.

Keeeey-rist. That certainly explains a lot.

Definitely: if for no other reasons then the rapidly plunging price of plastic injection-molded parts, combined with the maturation of digital sculpting has simply opened the world up for new makers.

Look at new companies such as Dreamforge Games or Kingdom Death. Both of those companies have their main production in different countries, and Adam Poots uses talent from across the world: artists from Asia, sculptors from Australia and Europe, and casters in still other places.

Just take a look at how many different brands the Warstore carries: not just the big three of GW, PP and Wyrd, but Dropzone Commander, Infinity, Dystopian Legions, the first product line to make the transit from kickstarter (to my knowledge), the aforementioned Dreamforge Games and too many more to name.

 -Loki- wrote:
Note the amount GW has been reducing gaming space in stores recently and sending gamers to game at independants or at home or clubs.

No it hasn't! No it hasn't!

Everything is fine. Nothing is broken. The prices don't go up. GW never does anything wrong.

I appreciate all the feedback so far. I also feel I have to state explicity that it was NOT my intention to start a GW hate thread, though I can certainly acknowledge that antagonism towards GW is, at the very least, partially relevant to the discussion. I very much consider 40K part of, rather than against, this 'golden age', at least as far as my own gaming group goes.

The golden age for tabletop games is thirteen.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback so far. I also feel I have to state explicity that it was NOT my intention to start a GW hate thread, though I can certainly acknowledge that antagonism towards GW is, at the very least, partially relevant to the discussion. I very much consider 40K part of, rather than against, this 'golden age', at least as far as my own gaming group goes.

Don't worry about it , as soon as certain persons join the thread it will be like Fandroids versus Isheep

I think it is not just Internet, Kickstarter caused a large influx of new tabletop games which may have not been able to be published weren't it for crowdfunding

In january, the norwegian Nationals had an attendance that made it the largest miniature games event ever held in Norway. So things are looking good.

 -Loki- wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Just a question - where do you game?.

At the moment...Warhammer World.

The UK doesn't really do FLGSs. I've been in one in my entire life and it was...just weird. Like really weird.

Which explains why you need the internet to find out about other games - your location, and obviously your selection of opponents, live and breathe GW.

Note the amount GW has been reducing gaming space in stores recently and sending gamers to game at independants or at home or clubs.

Stating it's not a golden age because you had to use the internet to find out about is a tad arrogant - your hobby is extremely sheltered. The average player is now more likely to find out about competing games simply because GW is driving their customers out of their stores if they want to actually game with their products.

But before I lived in nottingham, I'd never dream of gaming in GW. I find it hard to empathise with the community on this since the tables at my local GWs tended to be dominated by the same few "regulars", who were highly offputting. Even if GW had a rota for allowing people to play, they could fit in what, 2 games per table per day? With two tables (since they need a demo table), that's only 10 games a week, but GW still have to put up with my friends and I getting in the way of the actual paying customers. And as someone who used to be one of those customers, there's nothing more offputting to me than having to make my way through a gaggle of irritating teenagers who're battling. Oh, and the tables were bloody tiny

My best bet is that GW figured out their taget audience (young men with disposable income) found the kids hanging out in GWs offputting and mainly battled in each others' houses/flats.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Note the amount GW has been reducing gaming space in stores recently and sending gamers to game at independants or at home or clubs.

No it hasn't! No it hasn't!

Everything is fine. Nothing is broken. The prices don't go up. GW never does anything wrong.

Prices don't go up. Minimum wage does.

Eh, that's getting old.

 Nucflash wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If it's a golden age then it's a quiet one. Were it not for internet I wouldn't have heard of any of those games.

Maybe in 10 or 15 years time when those games are bigger. Maybe.

You really need to start playing other games then GW... Instead of fighting teeth and Claw on these boards trying to defend them. In Fact I think you do more to sabotage GW, with your Crazy White Knighting... As seen on these boards in countless threads people arnt really buying what you are saying? or has this Fact not occured to you?

As one Table-top gamer to another I would suggest you atleast try out a few other gaming systems and find out what they are about.. then come back and look at GW with clear eyes...

I will end this with a litte saga as food for thought!

Nucflash: Search your feelings, BryllCream, you can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
BryllCream : You don't know the power of the dark side! I must obey my master Games Workshop
Nucflash: I will not fight you.
BryllCream: Give yourself to the dark side. It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... [pauses] Warmachine players! So, they play Warmachine. Your feelings have now betrayed them too. Privateer Press was wise to hide them from me. Now their failure is complete. If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps they will!
Nucflash: [revealing himself] NEVER!
[Nucflash attacks BryllCrem ferociously, eventually backing him onto a railing and cutting off his arm. He stands over BryllCream for a moment.]
Emperor Tom kirby: [laughing] Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take BryllCream's place at my side!
Nucflash: [Notices Bryllcreams detached hand is bionic, like his own, has a realization, then turns to face the Emperor, throwing away his lightsaber] Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am a Table top gamer, like BryllCream before me.
Emperor Tom Kirby: [angrily] So be it... Table-top gamer!

Emperor Tom Kirby: [raising his hands toward Nucflash] If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed!
[Lightning shoots out of Kirby's fingers and strikes Nucflash, causing him to fall to the floor in agony. BryllCream gets up and stands next to Tom Kirby, watching.]
Emperor Tom Kirby: Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. [shoots another round of lightning into Nucflash] Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Dark Side! You have paid the price for your lack of vision! [continues shooting lightning at Nucflash]
Nucflash: [writhing in agony] BryllCream, please! Help me!
Emperor Tom Kirby: Now, young Table-top gamer... you will die. [blasts more and more lightning at Nucflash; BryllCream looks back and forth at Nucflash and Tom Kirby.]
BryllCream: No. NOOOOOO!!
[Bryllcream grabs Kirby from behind and throws him down into the reactor shaft]

[A redeemed BryllCream is dying in Nucflash arms]
Bryllcream: Nucflash, help me take this mask off.
Nucflash: But you'll die!
Bryllcream: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look at other tabe-top games with my own eyes. [Nucflash carefully removes BryllCreams mask to reveal his disfigured face underneath.] Now...go, my Friend. Leave me.
Nucflash: No, you're coming with me. I won't leave you here. I've got to save you!
BryllCream: [smiles] You already have, Nucflash. You were right. You were right about me... Tell your Warmachine friends... you were right... [dies]

BryllCream Please dont let it Come to this!!!!!!!

I'd happily try non-GW games, being something of a nerd I'd probably enjoy it. But as none of my friends have heard of them, and (probably more importantly) I don't have the time to, it won't happen any time soon.

 BryllCream wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Just a question - where do you game?.

At the moment...Warhammer World.

How I wish I could make such a boast. I hope to someday see Warhammer World, let alone play a game in it's hallowed halls.. visiting Bugmans bar... view the golden cubicle, in which Jervis is entombed and to whom a thousand interns are sacrificed daily, see the inexhaustible lawyers who fight a thousand battles in a thousand courtroom in his name.... what it must be like.


But seriously that place looks amazing.

Not really a boast...I live in Nottingham, there are no FLGSs near me. Warhammer World is the local gaming venue of a few hundred people - I go there about mid-day on week days and there's always people there.

Only real problem is proxies/not actually owning any rulebooks. And they do NOT allow you to borrow any blast templates you may have forgotten

Oh sorry I thought you were being sarcastic. Yeah it's worth it for the huge diarama alone - it was previously a huge tyranid force attacking a space wolf fortress (with hundreds of little details - tyrands sneaking along cliff edges, a clawed hand sticking out of a grate etc). It's currently a scene from the Horus Heresy books, a load of World Eaters with Angron at the front butchering a handful of loyalists from various chapters.

The diarama that they have is at the front, which is conviniently where my friends and I go for a cigarette, so we always get plenty of time to look at it

 BryllCream wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Just a question - where do you game?.

At the moment...Warhammer World.

Apparently they put something in the beer that turns you blue and makes you oblivious to all of GWs shortcomings.

On topic: I think that this is most certainly a golden age of tabletop games. There is a wide variety of miniatures and rulesets. Some stuff like X-Wing is even sold in Target and other 'regular' stores.

They tell me this is the golden age, but gold is the reason for the flame wars we wage...

Seriously though? Pretty much. New materials, CAD, cheaper plastics, kickstarter, and a rising economy all make this a great time to be involved in minis gaming.

I got into tabletop wargaming in 2002, or basically the beginning of the long, dark, GW winter. GW had destroyed it's last big competitors, PP was merely a upstart, and Starship Troopers was merely a gleam in Andy Chambers eye.

Now? I can play nearly a dozen minis games with active, major support. Models only get better looking, books are now full color as a matter of course, and an upper level table-top/tournament standard paint job today could have made a golden demon cut 15 years ago.

Think I've said the before in a different thread - its a bit of a golden age for wargaming as a whole, it is not a golden age for "The GW Hobby"

 Polonius wrote:
Now? I can play nearly a dozen minis games with active, major support. Models only get better looking, books are now full color as a matter of course, and an upper level table-top/tournament standard paint job today could have made a golden demon cut 15 years ago.

+1

I have fond memories of the past but the present and future are very bright. There are more games available for me to play than I have time. Oddly, I have the money I just don't have the time anymore...

I've noticed that a lot of non GW games are getting more and mroe popular, why? well the local GW's cut their hours, stopped instore gaming to some degree or other. People went to local clubs, exposed to lots of other games, and took them up.

 Reaver83 wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of non GW games are getting more and mroe popular, why? well the local GW's cut their hours, stopped instore gaming to some degree or other. People went to local clubs, exposed to lots of other games, and took them up.

Dem prices.

It is one of those things where each generation will see their own golden age happen. The first one for me was back in the 1980s. Epoxy putty had overtaken wax and solder sculpting, so you had more figure sculpting, more details and more companies. Many of the hallowed names of old were coming into full swing - Grenadier, Ral Partha, RAFM, Heartbreaker, Citadel...

You had a fun new sci-fi robots game that was going mainstream (Battletech....they even had a cartoon). TSR had put out Battlesystem rules. There were a dozen or so magazines that would get news of new releases, rules and scenarios out to the public.

The 2000s and on were also a golden age again...really starting around 2004 or 2005. Small miniature companies exploded, rules and online publishing became common place. Independent stores expanded their offerings significantly to include several retailer friendly games. A new batch of sculptors came onto the scene and have been producing things which were unimaginable in years past. Silicones and urethanes moved from industrial supply houses to the shelves of craft stores like Hobby Lobby.

I suspect another period of consolidation will happen again in 5 years or so, and then another golden age after that (perhaps that one will be driven by print on demand miniatures).

I think we're at the cusp of a golden age, but not quite there yet.

I think we are now in a Golden age. So many new game systems around and people playing them too.

The amount of good scenery around as well is mind blowing.

It is a time of plenty in terms of rules and minis. It can be overhwleming if you are of limited time for recreation. Realizing that a large percentage of the systems will simply have to be ignored in order to have time and money to engage in a select few. It would be a golden age even more if days were extended by 30% and I learned to paint 200% faster.