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 Forar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Palladium communicates quite well with the incredibly insular community of super die hard fans on their website that buy 3 copies of each book...

I've been running into this more and more of late, and it continues to baffle me.

*snip*

Almost has an unsettlingly cultish feel to it.

It certainly does have a Jonestown feel to it over on the Palladium boards but it's not specific to them but rather games that are frankly past their prime/heyday and have shadows of the community/popularity they previously had. You've got a poster that has moaned and whined constantly for months about the ignored crowdfunding offers stating that they'll now buy multiple copies because the owner had a nice sit down chat with him and he's getting his name in the book on a picture. Then there are the folks that apparently take weeks to realize that palladium NOT extending their 20% off sale on Robotech books during the Kickstarter to them just because they're picking them up in person during a multiple hundred mile pilgrimage to the Palladium offices is an unfriendly move. They drive hundreds of miles and the company won't give them the 20% off in person that they're offering online at that moment because they don't get to gouge them on shipping as well? But.. hey.. those are the people who prior to the kickstarter kept palladium in business by ordering seconds of all the kool-aid despite being poisoned by it before. Like I said, I went in on this despite my dislike for Palladium and their practices. My love of robotech and the seemingly ground level involvement of a second company are what made me click the pledge button. The kickstarter however was run quite well (although I suspect the Ninja's involvement had alot to do with that) so I'm hoping that they'll turn over a new leaf.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 dalsiandon wrote:
I just find it interesting that I have all my Kickstarter stuff in order for this. I have the confirmation emails, I have my Amazon account set-up properly and I have even tried to communicate with them asking why they didn't charge my account or why my pledge was skipped and I have not heard a response from them. Instead I get a note here on Dakka that they have a " Message on There Webpage" but we have to hunt it down instead of them come to each of us. It even says that they have been contacted by others like me and instead of getting back to us personally (if you pledge more than $140.00 you deserve a personal response) they hide a message on their website.
I'm wondering if I want to withhold all my pledge information at this point since they can't even seem to take money from people without problems how on earth are they going to be able to deliver a quality game product???

Kickstarter creators have no control over when or how often Amazon attempts to charge, yelling at them will do you no good. Contact Kickstarter/Amazon itself.

Then they should...ahh...wait for it.....ahh.....COMMUNICATE THAT!!!

Just a thought. Because to me it looks like a lapse in PR. Here is a 5 second description of an answer that would be satisfying and helpful....if they ever choose to get around and actually communicate it at large as opposed to hiding it on their website.

"Hey we did this really awesome kickstarter and we appreciate your support. Unfortunately there are occasionally issues with AMAZON and Kickstarter that are beyond our control. Here's what you need to do to help us fix this for you......blah, blah, blah..... Again thanks for your support. Once you get this step done for us we'll be able to get this handled right away."

See how easy that is. I also haven't "Yelled" at them. Because I agree yelling only frightens children and it makes adults just act more stupid then before.

Official update came out that largely repeated the post on the Palladium site (although this adds a phone number to contact them if payment didn't go through). No news unfortunately on the Design an Ace contest.

Hey, everybody. Sorry for the long silence, but rest assured, we have been working feverishly behind the scenes.

First off, we’re working on setting up the pledge manager storefront for Kickstarter backers, and expect to have it up and running by the end of June. Some of you will be familiar with this sort of pledge manager system, which will allow Kickstarter backers to select their add-ons by essentially shopping in their own private store, using their pledged dollar amount as credit to select the items they want. You’ll even be able to add to your pledge amount so that you can pick up any add-ons that were unlocked toward the end of the Kickstarter, or which you may have missed before.

We’ll be sending out surveys in the next few weeks. By then or shortly thereafter, we’ll have many more details about the pledge manager and other questions you may have.

Finally, if you pledged for the Kickstarter but later learned it didn't go through for some reason, please contact us at 734-721-2903. (For those of you who are overseas or otherwise unable to call us, send us a message through Kickstarter, just be aware it will take us longer to get back to you.) We’re not going to shut you out or let you get left behind. We greatly appreciate the tremendous support you've all given us, and we won’t be happy until every one of you is satisfied.

Thanks again, everyone. Watch for the survey coming in the next few weeks.

Starting the Pledge Manager at the end of June and presumably running until the end of July (ish) is a bit further back than my initial estimate, but still gives them 2-4 months for production and delivery to make their 'early' delivery prediction, and 5 months to be 'on time'.

Or one year for anyone who strongly suspects there'll be delays. Which I imagine is most people.

Seems a long delay for just a pledge manager.

Does not auger well.

Paranoia strikes deep.

chances are they have a pretty good ballpark of what they need to make, and don't need to rush people into finalizing there pledges just yet.

But this is just the opinion of a Kickstarter creator who wanted 3 months before opening her pledge manager.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Paranoia strikes deep.

chances are they have a pretty good ballpark of what they need to make, and don't need to rush people into finalizing there pledges just yet.

But this is just the opinion of a Kickstarter creator who wanted 3 months before opening her pledge manager.

Thank you for providing some context. We tend to forget that the process is just begining as opposed to being just days away from our plastic crack arriving.

It is probably a good thing that people are so amped up for product and eagerly awaiting releases… it at least means that there will be a small, but dedicated, group proselytizing this game before release.

Of course if this ends up like Relic Knights (IF and only IF), then the same group is going to be VERY vocal in their expressing their displeasure.

To be fair, they could deliver it 2 months ahead of schedule in boxes wrought from the finest materials and someone would still find something to complain about.

It's not to much "if" there's complaining, it's a matter of 'when and about what'.

 Forar wrote:
To be fair, they could deliver it 2 months ahead of schedule in boxes wrought from the finest materials and someone would still find something to complain about.

It's not to much "if" there's complaining, it's a matter of 'when and about what'.

Are you complaining about Future Potential Complaints?

ComplainceptionBWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Just stating what I feel is likely to occur. Across 5300 backers it seems likely there'll be some grumbling no matter how well it goes. Hence why many people in this thread (who seem to be generally paying attention) are at most idly hoping they get it out on time but are prepping for a release date around "before the heat death of the universe".

As someone once said on a Magic forum I participated on; "Wizards could put $100 bills in booster packs and someone would complain about how they were folded."

This is the interwebs! Where someone ALWAYS finds a reason for complaints.

I for one willl be happy to wait this out. Since they already have molds for the basic pieces (normal Valks, regualt pods destroids) I think they just need to work on the other items (supers, armored, FPA, MPA, etc)

Just my opinion.

 Lysenis wrote:
This is the interwebs! Where someone ALWAYS finds a reason for complaints.

I for one willl be happy to wait this out. Since they already have molds for the basic pieces (normal Valks, regualt pods destroids) I think they just need to work on the other items (supers, armored, FPA, MPA, etc)

Just my opinion.

Where did you get the info that they have the molds for the basic pieces? Their kickstarter specifically said they were sending the files around 40 days after the end to make the molds.

Yeah, the pieces they had done up were, as far as I know, prototypes. Meant just for production of enough figures to show off/as proof of concept, to paint up and get the fanboys/fangirls drooling.

If nothing else, I'm under the impression that pewter and plastic molds are very different creatures. Perhaps moreso between "hey, we need like 100 of these" and "hey, we need like 100,000 of these".

When you make a mold like that you need the original sculpt. This means that it is easier to make those again and all they have to do is make the mold in the right materials.

 Lysenis wrote:
When you make a mold like that you need the original sculpt. This means that it is easier to make those again and all they have to do is make the mold in the right materials.

Metal molds for plastic game pieces =/= rubber molds for metal game pieces. The two are not interchangeable at all. The metal ones are generally milled from 3d files whereas rubber ones are created as negative moulds of 3d printed versions from the same files. Having the later gives you no benefit on the former other than making sure the model actually looks the way you want it to in real life compared to the digital file on a screen. The manufacturing concerns and details of both differ greatly which is why you see flash and mould sprues attached to the model in different spots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Some more Robotech fun: We’re playing with the idea of offering two convention exclusive Robotech® game pieces for sale at Gen Con: Max Sterling’s VF-1J and Miriya in Female Power Armor. If Ninja Division can pull it off at all (and we’ll try hard), supplies will be limited. These will be different from the items offered in the Kickstarter. And, of course, we’ll be running demos of the game at Gen Con.

From the palladium press release... sigh... they'll just end up yet again biting the hand that feeds them. People wanted max during the KS and now the backers will be excluded from getting the model (unless they go to gencon of course). Leave it to palladium to potentially alienate the people who just paid them $1.4 million... I don't have an issue with con exclusives AFTER the game is released nor do I have an issue with them having new sculpts at the con as long as they're ALSO available to backers during the pledge manager but this is just a bad idea in the form described above. Along with the delay in the pledge manager, the complete ignoring of the design an ace contest whose results were supposed to be announced a week ago, and models KS backers potentially are excluded from getting less than a month after the end of the megasuccessful kickstarter.. and I'm really thinking that making all that money didn't change a thing over in the PB offices.

 warboss wrote:

Some more Robotech fun: We’re playing with the idea of offering two convention exclusive Robotech® game pieces for sale at Gen Con: Max Sterling’s VF-1J and Miriya in Female Power Armor. If Ninja Division can pull it off at all (and we’ll try hard), supplies will be limited. These will be different from the items offered in the Kickstarter. And, of course, we’ll be running demos of the game at Gen Con.

From the palladium press release... sigh... they'll just end up yet again biting the hand that feeds them. People wanted max during the KS and now the backers will be excluded from getting the model (unless they go to gencon of course). Leave it to palladium to potentially alienate the people who just paid them $1.4 million... I don't have an issue with con exclusives AFTER the game is released nor do I have an issue with them having new sculpts at the con as long as they're ALSO available to backers during the pledge manager but this is just a bad idea in the form described above. Along with the delay in the pledge manager, the complete ignoring of the design an ace contest whose results were supposed to be announced a week ago, and models KS backers potentially are excluded from getting less than a month after the end of the megasuccessful kickstarter.. and I'm really thinking that making all that money didn't change a thing over in the PB offices.

This to me is discrimination. I would certainly have paid extra for either or both of those models, but now I can't because I'm a backer from the UK! There must have been loads of people who backed their campaign and now stand no chance of getting Max or Miriya because they can't travel that distance just to get a couple of models. As Warboss said, I'd have no problem whatsoever with "KS Exclusives" being sold in limited nunmbers at conventions, but something people were clamouring for during the KS getting told "You wanted it, but now we're selling it at conventions only!" kinda sucks.

OK, there is a possibility that they'll add this in to the PM, and limited supplies does not necessarily mean "We're doing no more than 100" and could mean "We're doing enough for everyone on the KS and a couple of hundred extra for conventions",but hey, this is Palladium we're talking about, right!

I'd call it douchebaggery rather than discrimination. Having said that, I'll wait till the PM comes out before declaring it so.

I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.

Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.

 Andrewdrexler wrote:
I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.

Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.

Previous mentions of exclusives sold at cons referenced KS "exclusives" also to be sold at cons. If you're going to defend them, you might as well get the facts straight. People didn't have an issue with the former but this is different.

As I've expressed on the PB forums, I would gladly put down $15 (as per Rick and Roy) for a Max LE figure when the Pledge Manager comes out.

But the initial announcement does kind of grate on me a little. Being able to snag one without going to ebay and paying god knows what would alleviate that considerably, but it does seem like it risks garnering more ire than good will.

Hell, if they'd even just given out "LE VF-1J and FPA" and didn't mention characters at all, I doubt many people would've batted an eye.

But man, on the KS comments section and those forums, there are some people who are astoundingly opposed to the option even becoming available. You'd think offering PB another $15 was somehow tied to kicking their dogs or something...

 warboss wrote:

 Andrewdrexler wrote:
I like how to some people everything Palladium Books does is a mistake. So what they are having a Max and Myria “convention exclusive”? They specifically said they were going to be having them (con exclusives in general) during the KS, and the first ones just happen to be at Gen Con. PB NEEDS some product at GenCon to show off to get people beyond the KS interested.

Also remember that PB said it was TRYING to get Max and Myria exclusives ready for GenCon. There is a lot that can go wrong between now and then, so perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can wait until the con exclusives are a reality as opposed to just vapor ware.

Previous mentions of exclusives sold at cons referenced KS "exclusives" also to be sold at cons. If you're going to defend them, you might as well get the facts straight. People didn't have an issue with the former but this is different.

I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days. If I misread that I appoligize for misrepresenting what was said. Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.

Rick, Roy, Khyron, Miriya, the SDF-1 figure and the two objective packs were all marked as "KS and Con Exclusive". Nobody would be surprised to see some of any of them at cons.

 Andrewdrexler wrote:
Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.

Wow. Boy, that sure is a reasonable stance to take on the matter.

 Andrewdrexler wrote:

I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days.

I can't think of a single KS company that has taken a fig that was clamored for during a kickstarter and then decided to make it available on an incredibly limited basis that would exclude 99% of the kickstarter backers from getting it. If you can, feel free to post the example along with links.

 Andrewdrexler wrote:
If I misread that I appoligize for misrepresenting what was said. Thta being said, the whole uproar about GenCon exclusive figures sounds like nothing more than the whinning of over-indulged children complaining that someone else gets to play with a shiny toy first.

Lol, apology followed by a blatant insult in an attempt to excuse anything palladium may do as worthy. You must be from the Palladium boards. It's not a question about playing with "a shiny toy first" but rather being able to play with the "shiny toy" ever for the MSRP. I'm not going to gencon nor am I going to be paying 2-10x the face value of what I wanted during the kickstarter after the fact.

@Forar: If they go through with this and don't offer the items during the pledge manager (hey, what's good for the goose is good for the gander... KS "exclusives" are being sold at cons so why not the reverse?), I don't think I'll be getting the extra add-ons I've planned for the last couple of weeks after selling some eldar. I'm curious to see how this resolves. If palladium continues taking the short term gain only route that has been their MO for yearsand only takes feedback that praises them unilaterally (like they've done for the better part of a decade) then the largess of the KS hasn't changed the mentality there. If they decide to listen to the majority opinion of the people who largely gave them a second chance (over the bleating support of the fans who have admittedly kept them alive in a zombie like fashion by buying more to partly make up for the shrinking fanbase of PB), then something may have changed over in Michigan. I've given palladium another chance due to their well run kickstarter and my love of robotech. If they mess with the success of the former with con exclusive that exclude KS backers weeks after, they're pretty much throwing away some of the goodwill garnered by the KS.

@warboss I hear you there, and agree. How they handle 'minor PR issues' before the manager is even live seems pretty important to me. This could be the difference to some people between adding in some extra cash and just taking what they signed up for originally.

Whether or not that's a particularly sizable amount is impossible to know, but considering how many years PB has been struggling to stay ahead of the game financially, you'd think they wouldn't want to start rocking the money boat so soon after they and ND curried so much gamer/fan favour.

It's pretty clear they'd like this to take off to some degree. Why shoot yourself in the foot over a LE veritech?

Again, if this had just been "a LE VT!" I wouldn't have given two fraks... gructs... shnerls... whatever the hell is appropriate for Dakka... but they say Max and my attention is focused on them like a laser, and they bloody well know why. :-P

 warboss wrote:

 Andrewdrexler wrote:

I was sure I saw somewhere about Con exclusive figs, or maybe i just assumed that it would happen since nearly every gaming company does it these days.

I can't think of a single KS company that has taken a fig that was clamored for during a kickstarter and then decided to make it available on an incredibly limited basis that would exclude 99% of the kickstarter backers from getting it. If you can, feel free to post the example along with links.
Lol, apology followed by a blatant insult in an attempt to excuse anything palladium may do as worthy. You must be from the Palladium boards. It's not a question about playing with "a shiny toy first" but rather being able to play with the "shiny toy" ever for the MSRP. I'm not going to gencon nor am I going to be paying 2-10x the face value of what I wanted during the kickstarter after the fact.

GAMING Company is the key word there. And PB is a GAMING company above all else. They might have a new game that was funded through a KS, but they are primarily a gaming company. As such, con exclusives are par for the course.

I am not now, nor have I EVER been a fanboy of Palladium Books. I don’t like the mechanical RPG system; it’s clunky and is laid out like a drunkard did the typesetting. The last Palladium book I purchased was Macross 2 deck plans, and that was for a scratch build I was working on at the time.

As to the “insult” about the whining, that’s exactly what it sounds like; the petulant whinning of children. “We did not get a Max during the KS, and now PB is giving them away at GenCON” wahhhh. Ugh. It’s the same people who were whining during the whole KS that the stretch goals were wasted, and how this mech or that mech is NEVER going to get done because PB is screwing up and people are going to get robbed because it’s PB. Every action PB does according to these naysayers is a direct insult to the “fans”, and them personally.

I am looking forward to RTT, but the anti-PB rants with every announcement (or lack of announcement) get reallllly tiresome.

If you find the community responses that annoying, you might as well avoid/ignore everything to do with the project for the next half year, because out of 5,500'ish backers and untold numbers of fans, someone, somewhere will find a reason to complain.

Basically, complaining about complaining can be even more obnoxious than the original complaints. The former is a representation of the fans passion for the project. The latter is just whining about people not behaving just how you'd like them to. Sorry to say, but the only people we have control over is ourselves, so even if Warboss and I and the rest of the Dakka community who participated chose to be 110% positive about every last thing they do, there are thousands of others who might take issue with X, Y or Z.

Telling people how they should or are allowed to feel is tellingly self centered and rude.

 Andrewdrexler wrote:

I am looking forward to RTT, but the anti-PB rants with every announcement (or lack of announcement) get reallllly tiresome.

You know what I find "realllly tiresome"? Not having any mention of the status let alone the results of the Design the Ace contest when they were supposedly judging them in the first week of this month. What else is "realllly tiresome"? Having a company who hasn't hit one of their unrealistic release dates in over a decade suddenly mention in official communications that the kickstarter will be delivered 1-2 months earlier than the KS estimate when at the same time they're ironically breaking their silence about the delay of the pledge manager phase (a very paradoxical duo). The exclusion of 99% of kickstarter backers from getting a mini that was the most clamored for unreleased model is just the icing on the cake and it's only been a few weeks since the end of the Kickstarter; I shudder at how much they could screw up possibly in the *next* 5-6 months even if they get the stuff out on time.

I participated in the kickstarter DESPITE what palladium has done over the past few decades of decidely anti-community actions because of the my love of Robotech and because they genuinely ran a good kickstarter (both in terms of content, value, and communication). None of the above will affect what was offered and paid for in the KS but rather chips away at the potential good will they earned through the KS (and therefore affects my participation in future offerings). Macross is my favorite era by far so I won't be very affected if I simply stop right there but I wouldn't mind getting a Southern Cross or REF army (or whatever name they're retconning that to) especially if it supports a company that has changed its ways whose IPs I really used to enjoy (like Rifts in addition to Robotech). I praised and defended them during the kickstarter when they deserved it and I'll criticize them when they warrant it after. Palladium has a horrible reputation garnered from many unfriendly and bad moves over the past decade. If you don't want to hear complaints about them when they do something that is generally viewed as a bad idea, you really should simply avoid threads/topics/blogs/new reports on the matter between now and December and just stick to the emailed offical Kickstarter updates.

 Forar wrote:
If you find the community responses that annoying, you might as well avoid/ignore everything to do with the project for the next half year, because out of 5,500'ish backers and untold numbers of fans, someone, somewhere will find a reason to complain.

Basically, complaining about complaining can be even more obnoxious than the original complaints. The former is a representation of the fans passion for the project. The latter is just whining about people not behaving just how you'd like them to. Sorry to say, but the only people we have control over is ourselves, so even if Warboss and I and the rest of the Dakka community who participated chose to be 110% positive about every last thing they do, there are thousands of others who might take issue with X, Y or Z.

Telling people how they should or are allowed to feel is tellingly self centered and rude.

First off, I did not say that the community response was annoying. I specifically said the anti-PB rants were getting tiresome. I also said the same knee jerk rants sounded like the petulant whining of children. Not complaints, not comments, but the knee jerk reaction of certain people to go into great depth about how everything PB does is a personal affront to them.

People who aren't entirely pleased with Palladium's history, reputation or actions are part of the community, it's rather difficult to separate them out like that unless you're going some "no true scotsman" on the matter. Doubly so when that community is based on backers, people who've already plunked down hundreds (or in the case of some truly crazy folks, thousands) of dollars for a project that has "THIS WILL PROBABLY BE LATE" written all over it.

It is possible to be a fan while remaining wary and critical.

I used to own almost every single book Palladium had released, and have three dozen sitting above me on a shelf at this very moment.

That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I have concerns regarding their activities.

So, in the Max figure kerfuffle, I forgot to post this from the KS comments:

In case anyone was interested, it looks like Alliance Distributions has added what they call short solicit preorders for the first batch of Robotech RPG Tactics stuff. So things are starting to move along. The boxed set has a MSRP of $90 and the Valkyrie, both Destroid, Battlepod and Artillery Pod sets are set at $30. The Zentraedi Command Pack is set at $35. So we really did get a nice deal in the KS and it does look like not everything from it will be available in retail right away.

Some rough napkin math makes it appear that the base box was roughly 10% off (20%'ish if you got an early bird), the individual sets were around 20-40% off, and the Battle Cry may indeed be a simply absurd and rocking good deal.

There's a local store that typically sells at a 20-30% discount, but after adding local taxes I think my crew will still come out on top, doubly so since it appears they're taking the X-Wing route and releasing to the general public in waves.

Which also means that the Pledge Manager may be the first chance in some time to get our hands on the figures that aren't part of said first wave. I mean, they could release new ones weekly, but I suspect more of a monthly schedule, if that.

Not that anyone should go drop $Macross on them, but it does make our pledge manager updates a little more informed. My crew and I are sorting that out between the three of us, and it led to the realization that the much maligned Daedalus pack actually makes sense for us (we were going to get 3 MACs, and lately two of us have realized we'd like to beef up our Destroid numbers as well).