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 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
And yeah, speaking of the white knights, I really should stop engaging that one guy.

He has flat out admitted he thinks Palladium's rpg systems are flawless, and sees any statements indicating that people have issues with it as some sort of personal affront.

Kickstarter needs many things, but first and foremost, I would absolutely love an ignore feature.

Like the one palladium has? It's custom!

Have an exalt, that's comedy gold!

So after reading through the messages the situation now appears to be that if it hadn't been for Forar the project would have been delivered on time?

Joyboozer wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
So after reading through the messages the situation now appears to be that if it hadn't been for Forar the project would have been delivered on time?

Apperantly he wasn't 98% excited so the white knights are throwing him under the bus for PB being late. But at least PB will put out a superior product because the defenders say so. According to them PB will not allow a subpar product bear the PB name.

I'm reading the RPG rules and there's a 98% that your character will pass an action roll. That's it! I figured out the mystery of where the 98% came from! Mystery solved.

Ugh, don't remind me of the Palladium skill system. What a congealed mess that thing is...

That said, yes, it is definitely my fault that Palladium's updates are generally missing or weak sauce, and that the project is rapidly drifting overdue.

I thought they would've found me out sooner.

 Forar wrote:
Ugh, don't remind me of the Palladium skill system. What a congealed mess that thing is...

That said, yes, it is definitely my fault that Palladium's updates are generally missing or weak sauce, and that the project is rapidly drifting overdue.

I thought they would've found me out sooner.

Lol, I'm reacquainting myself with the RPG since Christmas and it is a mess. I had the Robotech rpg books when they were rereleased but sold the horrid little manga format books and rebought a few of the bigger normal sized ones. It's been 5 years since I read one (although I did crack open the macross one to look at the pictures during the kickstarter before selling them) and there are a ton of issues. A quick roll character generation system that spends half its time on your character's world view but leaves out any semblance of tallying up bonuses, stats or skills... You don't need the former to play but you do need the later as a new player sitting down late to a game. Anyone can come up with their character's personality on the fly but not their abilities if new to the game. The original dodge/strike system has alot of poorly thought out layers added onto it that accomplish next to nothing other than increasing the complexity and you have to play "Where's waldo" to find out which apply in each circumstance because the restrictions are only mentioned usually a single time in the entire book in different chapters. I guess making a table that isn't cut and pasted from 1980's books is beyond palladium's digital formatting ability. Uggh... Sorry... I've been trying to make sense of the RPG rules over the weekend and I've come to the conclusion that it's not much harder to just convert everything to a system that mechanically works than to try and make sense of what they published.

Palladium would have had tons of new sales had they just converted to D20. It wouldn't be that hard of a conversion, either. But I'm only a consumer, so what do I know? Other than what I would actually buy I guess.

Oh man. There's a sticky on the PB forums that very clearly states "No D20 For Palladium".

It dates back to 2007.

Guys, I think you can prune that one. Aside from one topic asking about it, it's a fairly dead issue. That battle was fought over half a decade ago, and while variations on D20 are still popular, I really doubt there are piles of potential fans clamoring for it.

That might be the ultimate reason; even if it would boost sales, there are no guarantees that the actual purchases would outweigh the costs in terms of time, money and manpower.

I mean, let's be real, they barely release books for their system as it is. The potential years that would be spent writing, playtesting (yes, yes, I know) and revising even a D20 conversion book or three would kill what little progress they've been making on actually putting out products.

Then again, there are those guys who take pride in buying 2-8+ of each book (hardcovers, variant covers, signed copies, it's like they collect comics, but each comic costs $20-30).

Have to wonder if their RPG division is being artificially kept alive by the efforts of a small group of people with a remarkably odd use for their discretionary income.

Has anyone given any thought to what rules they will use once we get our minis?

Ideally the base rules. My friends aren't particularly favourable towards house rules, so I'm sincerely hoping they managed to make a system that's at the very least somewhat balanced and fun to play. Really don't want to have to patch up one of their giant messes.

Failing that, I'm half tempted to modify X-Wing, but obviously the movement system would leave a lot to be desired (what with fielding possibly dozens of figures per side).

Probably glance at Mike's too, if all else fails.

It's sort of weird not having him around, posting on a half dozen places to check out his stuff on a half dozen other places.

 Forar wrote:
Ideally the base rules.

Uh, I'd just forget that.

I don't think X-Wing is a good fit, either. I've been keeping my eyes open but so far I haven't thought of anything that is clicks.

Likely I'll end up making my own rules.

I'll give the by boom rules a fair shake. But I've actually been debating about a conversion to Force on Force/Tomorrow's War (even though that would somewhat limit the battle size).

Manchu wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Ideally the base rules.

Uh, I'd just forget that.

You know me.

Ever the optimist.

Manchu wrote:
Has anyone given any thought to what rules they will use once we get our minis?

I would make up my own, and then publish them for anyone to use.

Manchu wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Ideally the base rules.

Uh, I'd just forget that.

I don't think X-Wing is a good fit, either. I've been keeping my eyes open but so far I haven't thought of anything that is clicks.

It is (been there, converted that) in theory but it's only for small model count games just like x-wing (no more than 6 models per side) and it's only good for space battles. I fully admit though that I haven't found a guinea pig yet to try them out in practice but my stat conversions aren't anything way out of the ordinary to begin with so it shouldn't play much different than traditional x-wing except for battloid veritechs.

There also is the older Dream Pod 9 Jovian Chronicles and larger scale Lightning Strikes rules for space mecha combat but if you don't like Heavy Gear mechanics (they do have their own pitfalls) then you won't like the derivative Jovian Chronicles ones either. In any case, you'd have to make up the stats for both as they don't have a vehicle construction system like in the Heavy Gear RPG.

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Lol, I'm reacquainting myself with the RPG since Christmas and it is a mess. I had the Robotech rpg books when they were rereleased but sold the horrid little manga format books and rebought a few of the bigger normal sized ones. It's been 5 years since I read one (although I did crack open the macross one to look at the pictures during the kickstarter before selling them) and there are a ton of issues. A quick roll character generation system that spends half its time on your character's world view but leaves out any semblance of tallying up bonuses, stats or skills... You don't need the former to play but you do need the later as a new player sitting down late to a game. Anyone can come up with their character's personality on the fly but not their abilities if new to the game. The original dodge/strike system has alot of poorly thought out layers added onto it that accomplish next to nothing other than increasing the complexity and you have to play "Where's waldo" to find out which apply in each circumstance because the restrictions are only mentioned usually a single time in the entire book in different chapters. I guess making a table that isn't cut and pasted from 1980's books is beyond palladium's digital formatting ability. Uggh... Sorry... I've been trying to make sense of the RPG rules over the weekend and I've come to the conclusion that it's not much harder to just convert everything to a system that mechanically works than to try and make sense of what they published.

I've been doing the same thing myself. I thought why can't the rules be more organized. I haven't gone far enough into the book where I encounter the silly dodge rules yet. This is my first time looking at a PB book since 1993. I'm used to the d10 system pioneered by FFG with their 40k RPGs. I'm also used to the neat orderly way the rules are presented. But this looks like a mess. Maybe once I've read more of the book it'll make more sense. Someone mentioned that the rules look like a term paper turned in at the last minute with little research done. I can see where one would get that idea from.

Lol, the quote function is off in that (as well as the previous message you posted). No big deal but it seems you attribute everything to me both times!

 warboss wrote:
There also is the older Dream Pod 9 Jovian Chronicles and larger scale Lightning Strikes rules for space mecha combat but if you don't like Heavy Gear mechanics (they do have their own pitfalls) then you won't like the derivative Jovian Chronicles ones either. In any case, you'd have to make up the stats for both as they don't have a vehicle construction system like in the Heavy Gear RPG.

To be pedantic, Jovian Chronicles does have vehicle creation rules. Inf act,t hey're a little broader than the Heavy Gear rules as they include creation of weapons as subsystems. The JC Companion has a lot of guidelines for 'cool stuff' like adding FTL drives, creating transforming/combining vehicles, biotech vehicles, etc... The bad side is it's really meant for an RPG as the tactical rules are at least as 'heavy' as Battletech, and not as fast-moving as I think the Robotech setting deserves.

Lighting strike doesn't have design rules. It looks like a neat ruleset (I've never played) but heavily focused on space-based combat, albeit in a Gundam-esque setting where a mecha can gut a capitol ship (or so I've heard).

If I had a bunch of nicely painted RT minis around and was looking for a system, I might see if I could hack something out of Savage Worlds, althoguh i don't know if it has any specific mecha/advanced vehicle rules.

 Easy E wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Has anyone given any thought to what rules they will use once we get our minis?

I would make up my own, and then publish them for anyone to use.

BattleTech

Epic maybe or Dropship Commander - could even try the Spartan Game systems

Aren't the FFG 40k games generally considered d100 based (albeit, usually determined by rolling two different d10s?)

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I've been doing the same thing myself. I thought why can't the rules be more organized. I haven't gone far enough into the book where I encounter the silly dodge rules yet. This is my first time looking at a PB book since 1993. I'm used to the d10 system pioneered by FFG with their 40k RPGs. I'm also used to the neat orderly way the rules are presented. But this looks like a mess. Maybe once I've read more of the book it'll make more sense.

No..no it won't. It'll just keep getting worse like some Inception RPG infinite loop of random and frequently contradictory complexity. As forar point out (no, not Jazz Hands!TM), complexity is not depth. X-wing has alot of the latter but only moderate amounts of the former IMO. Palladium cranks up the complexity to 11 but completely derps on organization, clarity, and logic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Balance wrote:
To be pedantic, Jovian Chronicles does have vehicle creation rules. Inf act,t hey're a little broader than the Heavy Gear rules as they include creation of weapons as subsystems. The JC Companion has a lot of guidelines for 'cool stuff' like adding FTL drives, creating transforming/combining vehicles, biotech vehicles, etc... The bad side is it's really meant for an RPG as the tactical rules are at least as 'heavy' as Battletech, and not as fast-moving as I think the Robotech setting deserves.

Lighting strike doesn't have design rules. It looks like a neat ruleset (I've never played) but heavily focused on space-based combat, albeit in a Gundam-esque setting where a mecha can gut a capitol ship (or so I've heard).

If I had a bunch of nicely painted RT minis around and was looking for a system, I might see if I could hack something out of Savage Worlds, althoguh i don't know if it has any specific mecha/advanced vehicle rules.

Does the Jovian Chronicles core set have a VCS type system to design mechs from the ground up? I don't recall that but I admit it's been a while since I owned them (still have Lightning strike 2e and some expansions to JC but sold off most of them years ago). If so, is it in the core book or one of the expansions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Balance wrote:
Aren't the FFG 40k games generally considered d100 based (albeit, usually determined by rolling two different d10s?)

I've always classified it as a percentile (i.e. d100) system but I can see why he'd call it a d10. I agree though that a d100 classification is more correct though.

I do have a way to convert all Battletech minis to the Tactics versions. It takes about 2 minutes, maybe less, to do so for any mech in the game.

Mike, I suspect people are looking for a backup ruleset to convert Robotech to not how to convert stuff into Palladium rules. Either one will likely get you bullied by Palladium with a C&D letter if posted.

 warboss wrote:

Does the Jovian Chronicles core set have a VCS type system to design mechs from the ground up? I don't recall that but I admit it's been a while since I owned them (still have Lightning strike 2e and some expansions to JC but sold off most of them years ago). If so, is it in the core book or one of the expansions?

It does, but I can't remember what book it is in. Might be in the 1st Silhouette edition main book, might have been in the Companion (that had some add-ons). I remember it being described as basically the HG 1st Edition VCS + a lot of bug-fixes, with the aforementioned weapons creation rules (To elaborate from above: instead of picking from "Heavy Machine Gun", 'Light Grenade launcher", Etc. in this version you can set a weapons range brackets, damage, special traits, etc.).

 warboss wrote:
Mike, I suspect people are looking for a backup ruleset to convert Robotech to not how to convert stuff into Palladium rules. Either one will likely get you bullied by Palladium with a C&D letter if posted.

I think I have got that covered. We can post conversions for free unless Wizkids has a fit and since this might help them with their sales and with their track record I don't see it as a big risk.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The new Mekton rules might be an option when they come out.

Mike1975 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Mike, I suspect people are looking for a backup ruleset to convert Robotech to not how to convert stuff into Palladium rules. Either one will likely get you bullied by Palladium with a C&D letter if posted.

I think I have got that covered. We can post conversions for free unless Wizkids has a fit and since this might help them with their sales and with their track record I don't see it as a big risk.

You should read the Palladium site rules. They claim you're not allowed to convert stuff into nor out of games they make. You're only allowed to create on your own derivative works for their worlds. Anything more and they will send you a demand as they have done many times in the past regardless of who owns what. Their legal viewpoint is not shared with the rest of the gaming industry or community.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Balance wrote:
It does, but I can't remember what book it is in. Might be in the 1st Silhouette edition main book, might have been in the Companion (that had some add-ons). I remember it being described as basically the HG 1st Edition VCS + a lot of bug-fixes, with the aforementioned weapons creation rules (To elaborate from above: instead of picking from "Heavy Machine Gun", 'Light Grenade launcher", Etc. in this version you can set a weapons range brackets, damage, special traits, etc.).

Interesting... if you find out where that is, please post it as I'd be interested in picking up a copy of it. edit: found it with some google fu.

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=124770

It's in the companion book which I never got.

 warboss wrote:
Lol, the quote function is off in that (as well as the previous message you posted). No big deal but it seems you attribute everything to me both times!

For some reason it keeps doing that. I'm not trying to post it's you saying it. I was trying to get my point across too. Guess I'm a bit off too.lol When I read your post I could relate to what your going thru as far as reading the rules

No worries, no offense taken. I just thought it was funny that it was me twice in a row. I posted a question thread over on the Palladium forums about the confusing rules so we'll see if any of the talking heads there that think the rules are just fine and clear and dandy as is (like Akashic) can help with examples from within Robotech. You shouldn't have to refer to an unrelated product line to figure out how to correctly use your existing product.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=141878&p=2753095#p2753095

Funny you mention akashic. There's a group of folks who are boycotting anything he writes because of his supposed agreement of some of the WBC teachings. I have no idea if it's true or not but that's the rumour. Allegedly. Also he verbally beats up on posters who don't agree that the PB system is without flaws then claims to be a victim when challenged by said posters. Allegedly. I don't know if there is any truth to it but there's even a FB page about boycotting anything written by him. Amazing what one can learn from hanging out on the PB forums for a minute.lol

The PB Forums certainly sound like an...interesting place!

Cypher-xv wrote:Funny you mention akashic. There's a group of folks who are boycotting anything he writes because of his supposed agreement of some of the WBC teachings. I have no idea if it's true or not but that's the rumour. Allegedly. Also he verbally beats up on posters who don't agree that the PB system is without flaws then claims to be a victim when challenged by said posters. Allegedly. I don't know if there is any truth to it but there's even a FB page about boycotting anything written by him. Amazing what one can learn from hanging out on the PB forums for a minute.lol

Yeah, I've seen him go off on rants about worldwide conspiracies against him and how he's retained the services of Heuy, Dewey, and Louie ESQ or somesuch to combat this international libel. His impenetrable faith in Emperor Kevin would make a 40k Sister of Battle blush so I figured he would be one of the folks who would jump at the opportunity to make sense of the combat rules in Robotech.

Alpharius wrote:The PB Forums certainly sound like an...interesting place!

I've found that games well past their prime (which unfortunately seems to be my particular hobby niche) engender a very offense is the best defense attitude amongst the ever smaller fanbase. The guy we're talking about has been suspended multiple times by mods for blatant trolling/flaming but always has his suspension overturned by the company head who he is so devoted to. He's also a prospective freelancer which is why I suppose people have in their sigs that they'd boycott any books he touches. Eh, I don't buy any books in lines he works on (my only palladium book purchase from the last few years are robotech and in the past decade prior to that "revised" or redone versions of old books) and I don't log in there very frequently so it's not worth finding out the full story about the consipiracy.