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Alpharius-

There are several gaps on every model. When you figure that this game is designed to be a mass combat, and not a skirmish level game, it makes things rather time prohibitive when you think about assembly and prep time. Especially if you're a serious miniatures painter/modeller, which I consider myself to be (and you may be too- I don't mean to sound snippy or disrespectful). All of these models have part counts in the teens, which again, is fine if you''re buidling five-ten a side, but not thirty-forty. Those gaps will require putty and filing to fill in, and when you think about that for a full army, that's just ridiculous. Not to mention pulling all of those parts off the sprues, cleaning them up, and assembling the models.

The other issue is that Palladium has responded to all feedback, even polite feedback, not with "we appreciate your concern, we'll look into it", but with " here's how you're wrong, don't sweat it." Considering that some folks have dumped a grand or two into this project, they should be a little more customer oriented.

No doubt!

When looking at the Mac II I can see the split in the middle like pretty much all the models.

 jacobus wrote:
The other issue is that Palladium has responded to all feedback, even polite feedback, not with "we appreciate your concern, we'll look into it", but with " here's how you're wrong, don't sweat it." Considering that some folks have dumped a grand or two into this project, they should be a little more customer oriented.

And usually, "You'll love it, we know you will!" style commentary.

As a non-American, could that be considered a verbal guarantee, of sorts?

Because yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't love it. Else I wouldn't have asked for a refund. Heck, given possibe cashflow problems, I even offered to allow them to delay payment process until after it ships retail. But they didn't even read my request, because it was just a standard cut-n-paste boiler-plate rejection letter, that addressed concerns I didn't have (the delays) and not the ones I did (inability to build at that scale).

If they do ship it, they'll be spending about a third of what I pledged, on shipping (Australia is really far away). What's the procedure in US retail if they're unable to deliver? I've never bounced a package back before.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
Those seems run from barely there to grand canyon. The Tomahawk ... you can fit a quarter into the gap along its back. The gnerl ... a god-awful seem running straight down the middle (you are stuck staring at it). A seem down the missile pod. Sure, but don't make it look like the damn malfunctioned (with that gap have smoke coming from it and you have some battle damage...then use the missiles). The final figs of the sprue need to be much better; especially with the piece count we are already looking at.

Also, the guy on Mike's facebook page that is viciously defending these minis to the point of attacking peoples' work ethics and modeling ability is pissing me off. I put a lot of work into each of my minis and go through all the motions. Some of these Robotech figures have to be better down the road...no questions. But to say that I am just being lazy (and with what 14-16 pieces, this will already be a chore for a mass-battle game) or that I just don't know what I am doing, that is unacceptable to me and is white knighting at its finest (at least in my limited experience).

Yeah, there are a couple tools on that FB page who tell you how stupid you are for voicing the problems with the miniatures we've seen.

Also, it shows exactly how cheaply they've decided to produce these by the fact that the gun barrels on the Tomahawk and Defender are both solid. Thanks ND for using 1990s technology today!! I think GW has been making 2 piece, bored out weapons for 7-10 years now? Somewhere close to that.

I'm not sure even paintjobs can help some of the joins/seams on a lot of those models shown. I shouldn't have to green stuff/fill EVERY model in the base game...

I suppose we'll have to wait for production plastics for the final proclamation, but as these are what the final models were cut off of, I don't hold out a lot of hope!

Will the comments break 1000 bitches on this last update?

Is this the worst run Kickstarter ever?

Will there be people doing Youtube unboxings and reviews? Blogs?

If you were to write an Amazon review for Robotech RRT what would be your title for it if the figs are like they are now?

Word of mouth...what would you tell a stranger about Robotech RRT and Palladium?

Sum up your opinion of Palladium Books in three words?

Will this product be done by Gen Con?

What happens if the product arrives just before Gen Con and Palladium sells boxes to the public before the backers get theirs?

1) I think so. Only way they don't is if PB puts up a new update today/tomorrow in time to redirect people to a new place to talk. Minor correction: 1000 bitches and glorious white knights.

2) Probably not. There are instances of people literally taking the money and running. These might not be "high quality" figures, with poorly designed pieces, misplaced seams and gaps you could fly the SDF-1 through, but considering what we paid, no, we're not nearly there. It's a shame, and wasted potential, and may do outright damage to PB, ND, HG and the Robotech brand, but while I would say we're seeing "bad" things here, definitely not the worst.

3) Of course. Some will be happy, some will complain, which manages to direct the community, I don't know.

4) "Not for the faint of heart, beginners need not apply."

5) I have. Even restricting myself to non-hyperbolic facts, it's generally not good. The greatest praise I can usually level is "I enjoy the settings, the mechanics are terrible".

6) Not Repeatable (on) Dakka.

7) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Maybe. Depends on whether or not the cost of air-freighting a crate or three would be offset by their projected sales at full MSRP.

8) Fury and sound, signifying nothing. Cranky backers, lots of apologies and explanations why that was the only way it could happen.

Some YF-4's and promo figures tucked in my box would go a long way to assuage some of my frustrations here, but I suspect we're only at the middle of this running gag. If that.

If it breaks 1k...that's some crazy pissed off people.

No attention is being paid at all apparently by Palladium as it rages out of control.

I think it's funny that in the weekly updates Kevin encourages folks to check out the Kickstarter Comments. For the unprepared it must be like dropping a toddler off at a Turkish prison riot or a shark feeding frenzy..

 PallyDrone wrote:
If it breaks 1k...that's some crazy pissed off people.

No attention is being paid at all apparently by Palladium as it rages out of control.

I think it's funny that in the weekly updates Kevin encourages folks to check out the Kickstarter Comments. For the unprepared it must be like dropping a toddler off at a Turkish prison riot or a shark feeding frenzy..

Don't you know? It hath been proclaimed by Grand White Knights that all soon to be 1000 negative comments are from the same 20-30 malcontents.

Also Palladium is paying attention as they chose to feed a troll instead of addressing the more eloquently and reasonably posted concerns.

Their not. The only reason PB posted was cause the guy said on the phone that he was going to bash PB on the ks page. So they had a heads up.

Someone should call and tell them that their miniatures are being bashed on the KS comments thread.

Mike1975,

Sorry. I can't handle your FB group anymore. While you have a handful of useful posting people there, it is greatly outweighed by idiots whose opinion of themselves outweighs their actual opinions.

The latest display of intellect was to say that the seam on the gnerl, which I think could be rather bad, was going to be a non-issue, as it was smaller than his manhood. So not a problem...

You appear to have attracted all the white knights, and dissent is met with disdain and scorn. It is good that Dakka actually has a much better balance of opinions and civil discussion...

Let me guess, Alex Clarke?

I wonder if his Kickstarter ban is still in place.

I take it Alex Clarke is a world class tool then?

And yes, that was his comment. Totally hilarious.

I think it's cause there's a post that's devolved to turning RT into a CW show were Gloval and Rick...

Anyways Rick's character was renamed rimmer. So make of it what you will. The post asks the same questions about PB handling of RRT just like the post above that Forar answered.

He pathetically confuses vulgarity with wit, and believes belligerence and offensiveness equate with being right.

Yes, he's a massive tool, and has been since the campaign.

I love Wayne's bit of it's so small you can't even notice the defects.

wow dude...grand frikken slam!!

Great point, though It'll just be ignored.

Anthony Kopah is the guy that originally set me off. But you know we are only the dissatisfied minority, so it doesn't matter what we think because we are only whining. Alex Clarke is effing disgusting with his use of vulgarity and his crass attitude. What takes the cake with me is Mr. Kopah's comments "Casual gamers can stay with HeroClix.
I want something with some depth that I can build myself. Wargaming should be a hobby, not a board game." and "X-wing exists for people that don't want to put any effort into their miniatures. Hell, fantasy flight even slops the paint on for you.

Even Games Workshop, with 30 years of experience, doesn't produce minis that only require "assembly and spray paint".". I feel like leaving the group as now the douches are coming out in full.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stanman wrote:

Spoiler:

I love Wayne's bit of it's so small you can't even notice the defects.

Don't you know...that is only a product of bad assembly, quick work, and it being a prototype. Not a problem with the design. \sarcasm

The Palladium mini looks like it was made out of soft cheese that's been melting in the sun. I'm amazed at how bad it looks in comparison.

Yeah, Anthony Kopah is a huge dbag. There's something wrong with people who feel the need to point how much more manly their playing with toy soldiers/planes/robots is than everyone else

 stanman wrote:
I love Wayne's bit of it's so small you can't even notice the defects.

Spoiler:

That picture makes me both happy and sad at the same time. Happy for Paulson and sad for myself.

 warboss wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I love Wayne's bit of it's so small you can't even notice the defects.

Spoiler:

That picture makes me both happy and sad at the same time. Happy for Paulson and sad for myself.

I'm very happy for Paulson because he does make some awesome miniatures and he's getting good karma for the way PB treated him. This project has brought lots of positive attention to his line. I'm looking forward to getting his minis so I can have crossover fights with the RRT stuff.
I was sad for myself too at first but once I saw the gama video and saw that PB was dead set on making models and not miniatures, I figured oh well. I don't know how strong the models will be but I'll still try and build a few because that's all I might be able to get done. I might have more Paulson minis built and painted. If PB wants to appeal to the scale modeler market and not the miniatures one then that's on PB if they fail.

If anyone wants to post a link to that pic on the robotech KS feel free to. While I thankfully didn't back the project, I also can't comment. I had been waiting on it to hit the retail shelves so I could see it first hand before buying any, but due to the way Palladium has been treating their backers I think I'll be avoiding it altogether at this point.

Someone already posted it stanman

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Someone already posted it stanman

But like most comments on there, it gets lost to the threads of time pretty quickly.

Sining wrote:
Yeah, Anthony Kopah is a huge dbag. There's something wrong with people who feel the need to point how much more manly their playing with toy soldiers/planes/robots is than everyone else

QFT. Just because you "ain't worried" about the issues cause they will be easy fixes (cough[MOD EDIT - No filter 'workarounds, please. Thanks - Alpharius]cough) doesn't mean you get to insult me and kick my out of wargaming. The way he hobbies doesn't mean diddly to me, and he can go play with Alex's gnerl for all I care. That'll show us your manliness.

Like I have said, I put my fair share of time into this hobby. I try like hell to make my models look the best that I can based on my current circumstances (some times I have a lot more time than others and that shows). If, in final production, the "amateur-level" results are like that (with the current piece counts), then they will be effectively doubling the amount of time each mini takes for me. This makes me not want the product. No, this doesn't mean I should "go play x-wing" or "stay with heroclix". I would say most of the time I am a casual gamer. I play games for fun and model/paint to relax. But I don't feel like taking a month to finish 1 squadron, not with a potential full army still left to do. Clip, clean, glue, paint, glue more, paint more, etc., matte coat.

@Paulson- That is one mighty fine mech right there, and I do love mechs.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Someone already posted it stanman

But like most comments on there, it gets lost to the threads of time pretty quickly.

It's made its way into the PB forums.
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142744&p=2771955#p2771955

That picture, lol.

I looked over a bunch of the KS comments and there's always gotta be some guy spouting off about "the limitations of 3d printing" which is always a complete load of BS. The prototype pieces Palladum has shown are definitely 3d printed, but so is my model and you don't see all sorts of build lines and rough surfaces. What sets them apart is that Palladium's model is a cheap low resolution print where I use a much higher resolution printer for mine. (There's about a $300 price difference between those print qualities).

It pisses me off when some un-informed yahoo has to cite "limits of printing" like a professional when they know nothing about the process. You can print amazing levels of detail on a piece, the technology may have had limits back 4-5 years ago but nowdays the only "limit" on detail is determined by how much you want to invest in your prints.

Sorry for the rant it just bugs me and particularly when it's being used as an excuse to defend a low end $50 print, you get what you pay for. A cheap Shapeways grade print means a cheap crappy looking model. Hopefully the actual plastics will look much better.

The mecha front model that's shown required literally 5 minutes to clean up and assemble, all I did was do a very quick pass over it with a toothbrush to remove a trace amount of flash, trim off the sprue contact points and it was done. It's not even primed and there were no gaps that needed to be filled, what you see is the actual cast material. Had I stayed on the Robotech project I would have aimed to make a product of similar quality for them, but what can you do?



You also have a similar situation when it comes to molding for plastics, you can do it on the cheap or you can opt for slide core tech but that's determined by how much you want to invest and the final product reflects that as well.

I think their showing at Gama was pretty sad, it's the premier event for the industry and they brought stuff that look like it was an ebay second hand find and built by a ten year old. They seriously brought that to show off to all their industry peers? No way in hell it'd happen like that with any of my stuff, ugh.



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