Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!

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**Forar**

Morgan Vening wrote:
So, after 15+ months (plus the pre-KS development time), the skirmish rules are a badly worded, badly thought out, paragraph and three examples. Glad to see those 16 hour days, 6 day weeks, are paying off.

Ouch.

**Mike1975**

Morgan Vening wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
The game was NEVER planned to have a skirmish mode. It was added to include a small group of Backers that wanted a skirmish game so PB promised added rules for one.

That's kinda the point, and the problem. We were promised an alternate rules set (skirmish mode), and then given nothing. Seriously, they could have just said "Skirmish is any game 50pts or less, and can purchase Support and Special cards without prerequisites", and been several lines less. While I never expected them to be close to as significant as the core rules, if what you've shown ends up in the final rules set, I can't see how that's anything but a slap in the face to those backers who asked for it.

I wish that were the case bu we were promised that the game would have skirmish/small scale rules, not an alternate rules set. I plan on making my own regardless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forar wrote:
*facepalm*

MIKE, THE POINT TOTAL DOESN'T NEED TO BE SET BY PALLADIUM. WE WENT OVER THIS. THE PLAYERS COULD PICK ONE JUST FINE, AS THEY WILL FOR "NORMAL" GAMES.

Damnit man, we went over this.

How will the two players know that they're using roughly the same amount of points? By setting a points total.

That's what I meant by 'they even glance at it'. If the players are going to be 'balancing' things somewhat from the start, why not just use a fething points total in the first place? "The points rules aren't used for skirmishes, but you should use them to vaguely balance the fight being played out".

And apparently no characters? And no unit upgrades? Why not?

Also; bullgak, re: 'it was never meant to be played as a skirmish"

From the RRT KS front page:

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a battle game in which players build armies of multiple squadrons of mecha to fight it out in scenario driven, objective based game play. Depending on the faction, and their choice of mecha, a player's army may include anywhere from 2 game pieces to as many as you desire! The rules are scalable from small skirmishes to mass combat with hundreds per side.

From the news page;

Scalable from small squad skirmishes to mass battles.

From the original announcement page:

-Two or more players can engage in small squad skirmishes or scale up to massive battles.

-Rules are scalable from skirmishes to mass combat with dozens, even hundreds, of opponents on both sides.

- Ninja Division and all of us believe we have a solid set of rules that captures the action and capabilities of the TV show combined with fast game play and scalability from skirmish battles to mass combat. Fun, fun, fun.

That's not 'something they added after the fact'. They volunteered that option themselves, and any claim otherwise is a flat out lie.

Citations:

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=651:prepare-for-invasion&catid=53:product-features

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=707:special-robotechr-rpg-tactics-update-january-30-2014&catid=52:weekly-updates&Itemid=183

As I said, from the rules, "Normally it will best of the two cards chosen cost close to the same amount of points." The only difference I see you are suggesting is to say that players should choose X-100 points and choose support and elite cards to match that total or something similar.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
This is my 2 cents on this deal.

The simplest answer is usually the right one.

The game was NEVER planned to have a skirmish mode. It was added to include a small group of Backers that wanted a skirmish game so PB promised added rules for one.

bs. Complete and utter bs. The two modes of play are even mentioned in the intro video available day 1 first second of the kickstarter. Kevin S. also mentions skirmish gaming on the MTV interview whose part 1 was posted in the first week of the KS so was obviously conducted prior to that. In your zeal to defend this, you've reversed the cause and effect. Skirmish gaming was promised and backers just wanted palladium to follow through on that promise. Sorry, Mike, but on this one you are completely and utterly wrong.

edit: Ninja'd by forar who provided ADDITIONAL info that completely disproves the above. Mike could theoretically claim that the front page was changed during the kickstarter to accomodate backer requests but he can't say that about the video that has been there since the first second of the KS.

I disagree, the game does allow for small groups of units to fight. The rules may not be what we wanted. I was surprised myself that that was all that they had as far as skirmish rules and did mention it. I can suggest changes and give reasoning but this is their horse to run the race with.

**Alpharius**

The miniatures...those pictures...

**Kendachi**

Alpharius wrote:
The miniatures...those pictures...

Are you sure you're in the right thread, Alpharius?

**Alpharius**

Yes, because I was JOKING!

**warboss**

New thread rule... the only joke allowed in this thread is the Kickstarter itself? That should clear up some confusion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The entirely predictable gak has met the fan. I called it months ago. Palladium will indeed be selling our stuff at gencon while backers who paid OVER A YEAR AGO wait till they get around to it. Not to worry, they'll have a whole two people working on it while the boss is away! I'm sure the legendary 16 hour work days will double when no one is around to tell! Heck, they might even get out packages to more than the precious fan friend circle during gencon! And then when they come back they'll have volunteers!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/908150#comments

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another gem...

" Only a few hundred people will get the product before our highly valued Kickstarter supporters at Gen Con. We will not be offering Kickstarter exclusives at Gen Con."

If you were offering them there, idiots, then they wouldn't be kickstarter exclusives, now would they??!? Do they want a special thanks for not breaking yet another promise they made while attempting to collect money?

**Alpharius**

Least shocking news ever?

● Sorry, we can not possibly bring your order with us to Gen Con. This is a much bigger, bulkier product than books. To bring even 100 full orders would fill up several pallets worth of space we just don’t have at our booth.

● If you are a backer and attending Gen Con Indy, please visit Palladium Books at Booth #1223 to see what will be coming to you in a few weeks (in some cases, possibly even days after you get home), and so that we can shake your hand and thank you personally for making this outstanding product possible. We could not have done it without you. All of us at Palladium Books, Ninja Division, Harmony Gold USA, and every Robotech® fan who enjoys this product owes you a debt of gratitude. Take a bow. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Yes, and take pictures too please!

**vitae_drinker**

F$&% them.

**Bob the Accountant**

I wish I could say I was surprised. Here's betting wave 2 never gets released.

**Eldarain**

An excellent observation from the update which currently has 18 likes (WTF?):

I love this part

● Sorry, we can not possibly bring your order with us to Gen Con. This is a much bigger, bulkier product than books. To bring even 100 full orders would fill up several pallets worth of space we just don’t have at our booth.

But they have room for SEVERAL HUNDRED orders they intend to bring to sell to non-contributors.

What about the people who's orders will now need to be bumped to the next container because they took stuff from the first one to sell to non-contributors?

Maybe they can ship us all a bottle of Robotech approved anal lube to help ease the pain.

**paulson games**

Part them cheeks for Uncle Kev cause you're about to get fethed

PLEASE NOTE: We do plan to bring a selection of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One product for display and sale at Gen Con Indy. I know that will disappoint some of our Kickstarter supporters, but it is vital to successfully kickoff the launch of this exciting new product line. Gen Con Indy is the San Diego Comic Con of gaming. Not only are there tens of thousands of gamers, but a lot of media. We NEED it to be there, and for sale, to create buzz and take advantage of the excitement that will generate. I hope our backers understand this. We appreciate you, but we also need to do what’s right for the future of this product line. That will benefit you and all Robotech® fans for years to come.

Please keep in mind the following:

● Only a few hundred people will get the product before our highly valued Kickstarter supporters at Gen Con. We will not be offering Kickstarter exclusives at Gen Con.

● Palladium will begin shipping to Kickstarter supporters before we leave for Gen Con and will continue to ship while the bulk of us are at Gen Con.

● REMEMBER, there are more than 5,200 Kickstarter supporters, almost all of whom have ordered many add-ons, so it will take us several weeks to ship ‘em all out, no matter what we do.

● Sorry, we can not possibly bring your order with us to Gen Con. This is a much bigger, bulkier product than books. To bring even 100 full orders would fill up several pallets worth of space we just don’t have at our booth.

● If you are a backer and attending Gen Con Indy, please visit Palladium Books at Booth #1223 to see what will be coming to you in a few weeks (in some cases, possibly even days after you get home), and so that we can shake your hand and thank you personally for making this outstanding product possible. We could not have done it without you. All of us at Palladium Books, Ninja Division, Harmony Gold USA, and every Robotech® fan who enjoys this product owes you a debt of gratitude. Take a bow. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

**warboss**

Alpharius wrote:
Least shocking news ever?

I suspect Defiance going incommunicado and possibly not delivering on their kickstarter edges it out but not by much. Fraud usually trumps douche.

**Smilodon_UP**

● If you are a backer and attending Gen Con Indy, please visit Palladium Books at Booth #1223 to see what will be coming to you in a few weeks (in some cases, possibly even days after you get home), and so that we can shake your hand and thank you personally for making this outstanding product possible. We could not have done it without you. All of us at Palladium Books, Ninja Division, Harmony Gold USA, and every Robotech® fan who enjoys this product owes you a debt of gratitude. Take a bow. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

.... I detect just a smidgen of hubris there.... Just a little, mind....

Eldarain wrote:
An excellent observation from the update which currently has 18 likes (WTF?):

Yeah, as if it isn't bad enough that most folks at the companies involved aren't already ass up and mouth-parts down intp the sand. And that might be generous given only an occasional browse through this thread.

Because you just know there will be some of those same "thumbs always up" folks right there at the booth bowing and scraping in unison.

We really don't need to wonder when the aliens will visit - they're already here and amongst us.
No matter how much of an optimist you might be, "do good and care not to whom" works both ways.

_
_

**warboss**

Smilodon_UP wrote:
● If you are a backer and attending Gen Con Indy, please visit Palladium Books at Booth #1223 to see what will be coming to you in a few weeks (in some cases, possibly even days after you get home), and so that we can shake your hand and thank you personally for making this outstanding product possible. We could not have done it without you. All of us at Palladium Books, Ninja Division, Harmony Gold USA, and every Robotech® fan who enjoys this product owes you a debt of gratitude. Take a bow. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

.... I detect just a smidgen of hubris there.... Just a little, mind....
_

In their defense, taking a bow does put backers in the proper position for what they're figuratively doing to us.

**stanman**

**Cypher-xv**

stanman wrote:

Someone please repost this on the ks page.

**Forar**

Mike1975 wrote:
As I said, from the rules, "Normally it will best of the two cards chosen cost close to the same amount of points." The only difference I see you are suggesting is to say that players should choose X-100 points and choose support and elite cards to match that total or something similar.

Damnit Mike, how will the player know that the two cards chosen will be close to the same amount of points?!? BY PICKING A POINTS LEVEL!

"I picked 2 Glaugs."

"I picked 2 YF-4 support cards."

".... ooops. Well, I'm fethed. Shall we pick again?"

Without even a vague points cost, building forces becomes a matter of guessing. It doesn't need to be this fething hard!

And you still haven't answered my question about characters and unit upgrades. Apparently those don't exist in the skirmish game? That's a shame, they'd be pretty awesome in it.

I disagree, the game does allow for small groups of units to fight. The rules may not be what we wanted. I was surprised myself that that was all that they had as far as skirmish rules and did mention it. I can suggest changes and give reasoning but this is their horse to run the race with.

You flat out said that it hadn't been designed with Skirmish level games in mind. We provided evidence that they claimed it was. It might not have been, but that just makes it a flat out lie. Suggesting changes doesn't do squat; the books are (supposedly) printing as we speak. That ship has sailed. If you thought they weren't doing a skirmish, you were wrong. If they claimed they weren't bothering much with the skirmish level gameplay, then they fethed up and hoped nobody would notice. If they sincerely thought nobody cared about skirmish level play, then they lied. This is hard evidence, right here. We didn't make Palladium say they'd support small ("2 figures on a side") gameplay. And at over a year since the campaign ended, it's a bit late for them to start trying to walk that back.

**wana10**

I think the CAV system would work pretty well for this and it plays well at small levels.

I'll just have to stat up valks and battlepods. I've been meaning to play some more Warlord recently anyways, looks like I'll be doing it in a few(hah!) months with mecha instead of fantasy.

In other news, feth 'em. I'm getting a decent deal at the end of the day but with such a sour taste in my mouth that there's not a chance of me doing business with PB or ND again, no matter how "mouth-watering" it may be.

**Forar**

Oh god. Despite my better judgement, I spent an extra half an hour catching up on the clusterfeth in the update comments.

Wow.

This one is going to go places.

**Sining**

It's 99% negative and 1 % positive. I wonder how Kevin's going to spin this one

**Albertorius**

Mike1975 wrote:
I have a much newer set now. The skirmish rules are basically a paragraph or two outlining what I stated above and changes how you can organize your forces, basic rules are unchanged.

Well, that's the thing... those are not skirmish rules. That's skirmish army creation rules. There's more to a skirmish-level game than list creation, you know.

**vitae_drinker**

Read through the KS comments.... Did anyone else notice that like 75%+ of the positive/supportive comments were from some variation of a "Brian?" Surely they wouldn't stoop so low as to ask a Stockholm syndrome Palladium fan to post support...and then pick the guy who uses the same name every time?

....Nah.

**Cypher-xv**

There a super fan in Australia who's desperately trying to get published. It might be him. Funny I thought the same.

It really blows that Kevin the shyster is breaking his contract with us backers by once again allowing non backers acces to rt minis. Even the fans on FB are turning on PB and some haven't bothered to post.

**Skorne**

Cypher-xv wrote:
stanman wrote:

Someone please repost this on the ks page.

Done!

**Cypher-xv**

Thank you.

It took a while but some of the apologist are doing what they can for damage control.lol

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144016

Funny how as soon as they show up NMI locks the thread.

**warboss**

Sining wrote:It's 99% negative and 1 % positive. I wonder how Kevin's going to spin this one

Forar wrote:Oh god. Despite my better judgement, I spent an extra half an hour catching up on the clusterfeth in the update comments.

Wow.

This one is going to go places.

Nah, the same predictable thing will happen as always. Kevin and friends will just label them as haters and/or non-customers and/or a vocal minority to marginalize the response regardless of how overwhelming it is.

**Mike1975**

Forar wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
As I said, from the rules, "Normally it will best of the two cards chosen cost close to the same amount of points." The only difference I see you are suggesting is to say that players should choose X-100 points and choose support and elite cards to match that total or something similar.

Damnit Mike, how will the player know that the two cards chosen will be close to the same amount of points?!? BY PICKING A POINTS LEVEL!

"I picked 2 Glaugs."

"I picked 2 YF-4 support cards."

".... ooops. Well, I'm fethed. Shall we pick again?"

Without even a vague points cost, building forces becomes a matter of guessing. It doesn't need to be this fething hard!

And you still haven't answered my question about characters and unit upgrades. Apparently those don't exist in the skirmish game? That's a shame, they'd be pretty awesome in it.

I disagree, the game does allow for small groups of units to fight. The rules may not be what we wanted. I was surprised myself that that was all that they had as far as skirmish rules and did mention it. I can suggest changes and give reasoning but this is their horse to run the race with.

You flat out said that it hadn't been designed with Skirmish level games in mind. We provided evidence that they claimed it was. It might not have been, but that just makes it a flat out lie. Suggesting changes doesn't do squat; the books are (supposedly) printing as we speak. That ship has sailed. If you thought they weren't doing a skirmish, you were wrong. If they claimed they weren't bothering much with the skirmish level gameplay, then they fethed up and hoped nobody would notice. If they sincerely thought nobody cared about skirmish level play, then they lied. This is hard evidence, right here. We didn't make Palladium say they'd support small ("2 figures on a side") gameplay. And at over a year since the campaign ended, it's a bit late for them to start trying to walk that back.

Every single card has a specific points level written on it. Every single card has the upgrades and point costs for the upgrades on them as well. You way off base if you think you just pick 2 random cards and then look at them to see how they compare pointwise. The entire reason I think your on another page here.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having a skirmish level and having a seperate system specifically for skirmish games are 2 different things, hence why I say I don't think they had designed this from the bottom up with skirmish in mind. You CAN play with smaller skirmish level units 4-12 per side but the rules are designed for entire dquadron on entire squadron. I don't like the way skirmish was done, I offered other additional options and it was not taken into account.

**wilycoyote**

Sad thing is that we all seen this coming and could do nothing about it.

Like watching Titanic and seeing that iceberg in the distance.

Should be fun watching the PB booth at Gencom, provided anyone is allowed to film what goes on.

Nice move KS.

**Mike1975**

Cypher-xv wrote:
Thank you.

It took a while but some of the apologist are doing what they can for damage control.lol

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144016

Funny how as soon as they show up NMI locks the thread.

NMI is one of PB's worst problems

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wilycoyote wrote:
Sad thing is that we all seen this coming and could do nothing about it.

Like watching Titanic and seeing that iceberg in the distance.

Should be fun watching the PB booth at Gencom, provided anyone is allowed to film what goes on.

Nice move KS.

I think everyone but PB saw the iceburg, just like the Titanic the captain was asleep in his cabin. The crew just hoped the ship would turn fast enough to miss but the ship was going to fast and they hit due to the ships own inertia.

**Alpharius**

warboss wrote:
Sining wrote:It's 99% negative and 1 % positive. I wonder how Kevin's going to spin this one

Forar wrote:Oh god. Despite my better judgement, I spent an extra half an hour catching up on the clusterfeth in the update comments.

Wow.

This one is going to go places.

Nah, the same predictable thing will happen as always. Kevin and friends will just label them as haters and/or non-customers and/or a vocal minority to marginalize the response regardless of how overwhelming it is.

I suppose he can call them 'haters', but if they're posting in the KS Comments section, he can't say they aren't customers!