Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Sining**

Forar wrote:
I haven't run the numbers, because I don't hate myself that much, but at a glance, I'd say roughly 80/20 Yes/No, BUT, there's a lot of Yes's that are practically under duress (as in "I know it doesn't matter, so yes, whatever, just finish it"), or express negativity or outright hostility for the project, the creator, or how the poll has been conducted, etc.

It'd probably depend on a lot of stuff. When this bullgak actually arrives for us (not just wave one, the whole thing), and how good or bad it actually is (not just pictures with huge seams, but actual ABS in our actual hands), how long wave two takes, what further ways they find to put their feet in their mouths, how good the deal is (if it's like the Battle Cry at the start of this campaign and that one doesn't blow up, forget it. Start me off at 100 figures for $100? Hell, I might get one of them and just ignore the campaign for a year outright), etc.

Hard to judge, but I think this is a stink that will put a lasting dent in any future crowd funding attempts. I can only imagine they're praying that retail and online sales are strong/lucrative enough that they don't have to go back for another round of cash. Sure, spending other people's money two years in advance is a sweet gig, but I can't imagine they're nearly as comfortable with the bad publicity they've been getting as they make out to be.

I can't understand that. If they're sick/tired of PB pulling this kind of stunts, you'd think they'd vote No. Instead it's just yes get it over with. Just can't understand this mentality. Also, I don't even think they're going to be able to bring product to Gencon. They're expecting delivery of the products by August 8 to their warehouse but it's all...unpackaged sprues. Which they then have to sort out and package at PB themselves it seems. That should be interesting to see

**Platuan4th**

Sining wrote:

I can't understand that. If they're sick/tired of PB pulling this kind of stunts, you'd think they'd vote No. Instead it's just yes get it over with. Just can't understand this mentality. Also, I don't even think they're going to be able to bring product to Gencon. They're expecting delivery of the products by August 8 to their warehouse but it's all...unpackaged sprues. Which they then have to sort out and package at PB themselves it seems. That should be interesting to see

I wouldn't be surprised if they held off announcing the results until the week or so before GenCon when they'll know how many they've got packed and ready to go. That way, when they don't have enough ready, they'll bust out the "results" and say how wonderful they are about listening to their "fans" and that because of all the No votes, they won't be bringing any to sell at GenCon after all!

**Sining**

I've already expected that. Kevin is like a snake oils salesman

**Merijeek**

Sining wrote:
I've already expected that. Kevin is like a snake oils salesman

Seems like basically a Magician's Force to me.

They get the stuff in time, it's what they want and they sell at Gen Con.

They don't get the stuff in time, they decided that "they had to listen to the whiners and didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings!"

Win/win.

**Korias1004**

As I said in various posts on their last update, I voted no simply on principle. The fact that they would have counted my non vote as a yes pissed me off so much I logged in to vote. First Kickstarter and first time posting was yesterday.

Many people like myself probably didn't care. I've probably ignored 75% of their updates and just on a whim read this last one....

Way to piss off your supporters.

Now when I get my product I'll probably unload it quickly or swap it on Bartertown.com for some more 40k stuff. Only way I'd be ok is if they apologized and gave some free stuff as an apology.

I'm a cheap date, just an exclusive mini or some signatures on my *edit* cool */edit* stuff would be great...not asking for a whole other boxed set.

**Kendachi**

I'd change my tune to a solid yes if they gave up the rules.

They could sell all they wanted, because I could, you know...

... Start Playing The Game!

**Gallahad**

I didn't back this(whew!), never seen the cartoons, etc. but I stop in every once in a while because I am interested in KS campaigns in general.

The whole "no vote means yes" and "I did it this way to provoke a response" is downright slimy.

The "miniatures" aren't looking very good either. My condolences to everybody that backed this train wreck.

**Salacious Greed**

Forar wrote:
Hard to judge, but I think this is a stink that will put a lasting dent in any future crowd funding attempts. I can only imagine they're praying that retail and online sales are strong/lucrative enough that they don't have to go back for another round of cash. Sure, spending other people's money two years in advance is a sweet gig, but I can't imagine they're nearly as comfortable with the bad publicity they've been getting as they make out to be.

Forar,

I don't think this is going to sell very well. Even to BT guys that want to use these as Unseen. I wouldn't buy any of the UEDF stuff, especially at the "premium" prices for the boxes. The Zentradi stuff looks decent, but I don't want to play Zent v. Zent. I don't think this is going to be flying off the shelves.

**Forar**

No argument there. At the prices they're charging, even after the cut off MSRP many stores take, I can't see it flying off the shelves.

I recognize that like myself, nostalgia might gloss over some of the reservations, but unlike other backers and I, they will be able to see sprues and built models in person, so if it's a pile of crap that doesn't sell outside of half off sales, that's where we'll be.

I suppose it's... fence sitting based not on the product, but on people being unpredictable creatures. Given the way the forces are lined up, I imagine they're hoping to have people snag up thousands of points per faction, and I'm sure some "whales" will do just that, but I'm doubting the average miniatures gamer is going to be willing to spend hundreds of dollars just to get a baseline force (that they need to assemble, prime and paint themselves).

**Conrad Turner**

Said no, then ripped them a new one about not issuing refunds and stated that I never wanted anything more to do with Palladium ever again.

After all, they can't put my wave 1 delivery to the back of the queue - I don't have anything in it!

If any government stated that any 'no vote' was a yes vote, they'd be out on their ears. I think Kevin needs to watch "V for Vendetta" and start worrying!

**chaos0xomega**

jacobus wrote:
So not voting is implied consent? Not really sure how that works, but I'm glad he's got a shovel with which to dig his own hole.

If you don't vote, you don't care enough either way to express your opinion (or in a minority of cases you're away, etc. etc. and are thus entirely unaware as to whats going on). Personally, if I were Palladium I would operate under the same assumption (which is how the various facebook events I organize operate), if you don't care enough to give me a response one way or another I'm going to assume whatever is most convenient for me. Either that or they wanted to stoke the fires of nerdrage to see how many people wish them ill will lol. I guess that was confirmed given the post from Kevin or whomever that was posted earlier.

I voted yes, I can't wait to get my stuff, but I've waited this long already, an extra week or two won't kill me... besides that, I need more time to find space to store it

As a side note, despite the fact that I've been generally pro-Palladium/Ninja Divison for this project (as a further aside, I've never dealt with this company before and am entirely unfamiliar with their other products, etc.), I dont think I will ever back one of their kickstarter projects again.

**CaulynDarr**

chaos0xomega wrote:
jacobus wrote:
So not voting is implied consent? Not really sure how that works, but I'm glad he's got a shovel with which to dig his own hole.

If you don't vote, you don't care enough either way to express your opinion (or in a minority of cases you're away, etc. etc. and are thus entirely unaware as to whats going on). Personally, if I were Palladium I would operate under the same assumption (which is how the various facebook events I organize operate), if you don't care enough to give me a response one way or another I'm going to assume whatever is most convenient for me. Either that or they wanted to stoke the fires of nerdrage to see how many people wish them ill will lol. I guess that was confirmed given the post from Kevin or whomever that was posted earlier.

I voted yes, I can't wait to get my stuff, but I've waited this long already, an extra week or two won't kill me... besides that, I need more time to find space to store it

As a side note, despite the fact that I've been generally pro-Palladium/Ninja Divison for this project (as a further aside, I've never dealt with this company before and am entirely unfamiliar with their other products, etc.), I dont think I will ever back one of their kickstarter projects again.

I don't get why people who say yes are so optimistic that this will lead to just a week or two delay. Or that this is going to be the last screw up. I don't get any sense that Palladium understands the complexity of a major KS fulfillment on this scale. CMON has dedicated teams and experience doing this sort of thing, and it still can take them over a month. It doesn't help that Kevin's own words show that they repeatedly fail to understand how hard things are until they are neck deep in a problem. A couple of unpaid volunteers aren't going to hold out for multiple weeks of manual labor. They should be falling over themselves to let backers pick up their pledges at Gencon, as it would simplify their logistics and reduce their cost

If we don't call them on their BS as early as possible, we are just paving the way for them to go ahead and pull another fast one on us. I'm certain that two months into wave 1 fulfillment we'll get an update saying that "Gencon buzz was so great. We have had retailers demanding our product. For the good of the game we just need to delay the last half of the backer shipments to get these mouth watering minis out to stores."

**Forar**

Actually, it hit me the other day why they can't/don't want to fulfill backer orders at Gencon; they still have to mail stuff out.

Remember, of the 6 'expansions' in Wave One, only 4 of them will be at Gencon, meaning that they can't fully fulfill "Battle Cry" contributions, since those contain at least 2 of the missing ones (one of the Destroids and the Veritechs themselves).

So they'd need to track who picked up what, and then still spend money shipping them a couple of VT boxes/destroids, AND make sure their records are updated/accurate enough that they don't just mail out another big pile of swag on top of it.

Not saying it's a GOOD reason, that level of sophistication isn't impossible, but I can see why they wouldn't WANT to do it.

**rigeld2**

They could limit it to people who just pledged for the Box Set though.

**CaulynDarr**

That at actually concerns me a little. You'd think that if they could sell those other two expansions at Gencon they would.

Even allowing people to just get the box set, would be beneficial though. It would probably reduce the package size and wait for the rest of the pledge significantly.

**rigeld2**

Given the apparent lack of organization they have, I don't have an issue with them saying "Only core box backers can pick up at Gencon."

But they're saying no pickups which is just silly.

**Forar**

rigeld2 wrote:
They could limit it to people who just pledged for the Box Set though.

All 200 of them? How many of those do you think will actually be attending Gencon? "Hey guys, some people can pick up their orders... about 4% of the backers..."

Plus, that assumes that they all paid, and non of them got VT or Destroid add ons, or upgraded to a Battle Cry. So it could be 200, it could be, like, 20 guys/gals. Not worth the trouble, extra shenanigans.

Edit: Given that some of the RDF stuff (including the VTs) went into production late, it may be possible that they won't be able to ship to backers other than the First Contact folks until container 2 arrives. Given that one of the two are the VTs, obviously they'll have to have SOME on hand, but I'm guessing they went into production late enough that they expect to only have enough on hand to stuff into Core boxes, but not enough to get into expansion boxes.

**Merijeek**

Forar wrote:
Actually, it hit me the other day why they can't/don't want to fulfill backer orders at Gencon; they still have to mail stuff out.

Remember, of the 6 'expansions' in Wave One, only 4 of them will be at Gencon, meaning that they can't fully fulfill "Battle Cry" contributions, since those contain at least 2 of the missing ones (one of the Destroids and the Veritechs themselves).

So they'd need to track who picked up what, and then still spend money shipping them a couple of VT boxes/destroids, AND make sure their records are updated/accurate enough that they don't just mail out another big pile of swag on top of it.

Not saying it's a GOOD reason, that level of sophistication isn't impossible, but I can see why they wouldn't WANT to do it.

They don't want to deliver to backers at GC because they ALREADY have the money of those people - they're no longer important, they're just an annoying obligation at this point.

Plus, some of the true short-sighted fanatical backers will STILL buy a set, either because they think they can on load their backer version on eBay, or just because they can't wait.

**rigeld2**

Forar wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
They could limit it to people who just pledged for the Box Set though.

All 200 of them? How many of those do you think will actually be attending Gencon? "Hey guys, some people can pick up their orders... about 4% of the backers..."

Plus, that assumes that they all paid, and non of them got VT or Destroid add ons, or upgraded to a Battle Cry. So it could be 200, it could be, like, 20 guys/gals. Not worth the trouble, extra shenanigans.

Edit: Given that some of the RDF stuff (including the VTs) went into production late, it may be possible that they won't be able to ship to backers other than the First Contact folks until container 2 arrives. Given that one of the two are the VTs, obviously they'll have to have SOME on hand, but I'm guessing they went into production late enough that they expect to only have enough on hand to stuff into Core boxes, but not enough to get into expansion boxes.

Hey - I'm not saying it'd be a large percentage, but saying "NO PICKUPZ" is different from saying "A very limited number of backers can pick up because we are going to have a limited selection of product."
The latter is perfectly fine with me, regardless of the number.

**Forar**

Oh, I'd be fine with it.

I just think it'd be more trouble than its worth. When you're talking about that small a percentage of the population, it's just going to become a hassle when some percentage of the remainder only read "pick ups at Gencon!" and you have to explain to a couple dozen pissed off nerds that they need to fully read the updates, not just skim them.

Honestly, if I were going, I'd end up pondering pitching them $10 or whatever they're charging just to get a copy of the rule book (which is apparently being sold separately? WTF?) for scanning and ~~distribution~~ 'accidentally leaving on my drop box with a shocking lack of security'.

**chaos0xomega**

I will agree that that is a bit odd really, the pool of people who would be eligible to pick up their pledge at Gencon would already be smaller than the amount of product that they have available. The pool of people that would actually be present at Gencon to pick up their pledges would be even smaller.

If I was them, I would give say a four hour window on the first day of Gencon in which backers can pick up their pledge (with a government issued photo ID to prevent ninjas,etc), after which point it becomes available for purchase by the general public. This way those who really want their stuff and will be in attendance can get it, and they will still be able to sell to the general public. It allows them to do right by some of their backers while letting them do whatever it is they want to do.

**vitae_drinker**

Or you do it like every other pre-order/kickstarter I've ever seen: you have to notify Palladium you're picking it up first so they have a list, or so sad, too bad. It wouldn't be that hard.

**chaos0xomega**

Either/or, yeah. It seems like a missed opportunity to show some good will.

**Merijeek**

vitae_drinker wrote:
Or you do it like every other pre-order/kickstarter I've ever seen: you have to notify Palladium you're picking it up first so they have a list, or so sad, too bad. It wouldn't be that hard.

Except it's Palladium. You'd have to notify them via fax, snail mail, or telex.

**Forar**

Don't forget telegraph, smoke signals or flag signalling.

On the up side, achieving Line of Sight using the latter options is still less effort than making their RPG system playable.

**Conrad Turner**

And I've got to say, there are 3 people I'm feeling really sorry for right now.

Those 3 who unfortunately went in for the "Bursting Point" level - a $3,500 pledge for a painted copy of the boxed game, Rick Hunter, and "Battlecry" level bonuses which "will ship after other rewards."

wow, bet that smarts now!

Disclaimer - I don't actually believe that Palladium will make them wait until after all other pledges have shipped. Once all models are available, they might as well send them to whatever "studio" painter they are going to use - meaning they will probably be shipped to the backers before I get my hands on my SDF-1.

**Asterios**

Forar wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
They could limit it to people who just pledged for the Box Set though.

All 200 of them? How many of those do you think will actually be attending Gencon? "Hey guys, some people can pick up their orders... about 4% of the backers..."

Plus, that assumes that they all paid, and non of them got VT or Destroid add ons, or upgraded to a Battle Cry. So it could be 200, it could be, like, 20 guys/gals. Not worth the trouble, extra shenanigans.

Edit: Given that some of the RDF stuff (including the VTs) went into production late, it may be possible that they won't be able to ship to backers other than the First Contact folks until container 2 arrives. Given that one of the two are the VTs, obviously they'll have to have SOME on hand, but I'm guessing they went into production late enough that they expect to only have enough on hand to stuff into Core boxes, but not enough to get into expansion boxes.

I don't understand why people will pay PB's over priced prices when they can pre-order them for around the same price as the kickstarter prices or even cheaper (main game) ?

**Forar**

I only just started attending (and working) conventions last year, but from what I've seen, people get kind of swept up in it all. They're finally there! They have disposable income on hand, and they see hot new products and unique stuff they might not find anywhere else.

Even at a price premium, the chance to have it NOW (even before the Kickstarter backers get theirs! A risky but potentially viable angle to take when selling!) will appeal to some people. Especially those with enough nostalgia to be intrigued, but not enough interest to have gotten into the KS or read up much about it. Or were short on funds last year, and want to 'get in on the ground floor!'

Because we all know how effective being an early adopter is. ;-)

Those poor bastards.

**vitae_drinker**

Why limit it to only people who pledged for the box set? Just make it "If you preordered, get on this list if you're at gen Con and we'll have one copy of the base game for you to pick up." You cross that part of their pledge as completed. Then they bring what they wanted to sell, plus enough to cover the sign ups. Boom, done. Easy peasy.

**Asterios**

Forar wrote:
I only just started attending (and working) conventions last year, but from what I've seen, people get kind of swept up in it all. They're finally there! They have disposable income on hand, and they see hot new products and unique stuff they might not find anywhere else.

Even at a price premium, the chance to have it NOW (even before the Kickstarter backers get theirs! A risky but potentially viable angle to take when selling!) will appeal to some people. Especially those with enough nostalgia to be intrigued, but not enough interest to have gotten into the KS or read up much about it. Or were short on funds last year, and want to 'get in on the ground floor!'

Because we all know how effective being an early adopter is. ;-)

Those poor bastards.

Well a few people I know who buy Convention early releases for resale or to keep said they are not even going to touch the Robotech stuff since its already gotten such bad press, that and they saw the pictures of the items, and how they are being boxed to be shipped.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vitae_drinker wrote:
Why limit it to only people who pledged for the box set? Just make it "If you preordered, get on this list if you're at gen Con and we'll have one copy of the base game for you to pick up." You cross that part of their pledge as completed. Then they bring what they wanted to sell, plus enough to cover the sign ups. Boom, done. Easy peasy.

because each set picked up by a backer is less money they will make, you think they won't release to retail before all backers get theirs? they have already promised delivery in September to retail, not too mention the pre-orders on their own site.