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Okay, mixed / confused messages on why Kevin is even posing a vote since he only wants to "force" participation.

Only self-serving reasonable purpose of doing it (love no response = yes) is to show "reasonable" permission from the backers to deviate from the original agreement that first receipt is to the backers. At least it gives some evidence of "due diligence" no matter how farcical so the threatened lawsuits can have a little shakier ground.

I will still vote "no" I do not want to reward bad behavior no matter how slight.

They have our money, they have their eye on getting MOAR!

Tempted to drop by in person and negotiate "volunteer" packing... it wont cost them... much. I could take a hit for the team and ensure that systems for error-proofing are in place.
(Please may they at least have a scale to weigh the package to ensure everything is in it).

Sprue trimming / reduction may be a nightmare in itself.

Forar can come along and "chew" on them (Palladium not the sprues). (Love that avatar)

vitae_drinker wrote:
Why limit it to only people who pledged for the box set? Just make it "If you preordered, get on this list if you're at gen Con and we'll have one copy of the base game for you to pick up." You cross that part of their pledge as completed. Then they bring what they wanted to sell, plus enough to cover the sign ups. Boom, done. Easy peasy.

That requires an organized effort and willingness to deal with the inevitable problems.

PB doesn't strike me as the most organized organization.

 Talizvar wrote:
Okay, mixed / confused messages on why Kevin is even posing a vote since he only wants to "force" participation.

Only self-serving reasonable purpose of doing it (love no response = yes) is to show "reasonable" permission from the backers to deviate from the original agreement that first receipt is to the backers. At least it gives some evidence of "due diligence" no matter how farcical so the threatened lawsuits can have a little shakier ground.

I will still vote "no" I do not want to reward bad behavior no matter how slight.

They have our money, they have their eye on getting MOAR!

Tempted to drop by in person and negotiate "volunteer" packing... it wont cost them... much. I could take a hit for the team and ensure that systems for error-proofing are in place.
(Please may they at least have a scale to weigh the package to ensure everything is in it).

Sprue trimming / reduction may be a nightmare in itself.

Forar can come along and "chew" on them (Palladium not the sprues). (Love that avatar)

They are going to have bigger problems on their hands since did you see the pictures where how the product is being packed?

I didn't back this because I'm incredibly familiar with Palladium, their reputation and their absolute lack of anything even remotely resembling ethics, and I won't ever grace Kevin with a red nickel of my money, ever again.

That said, as backers, you might consider voting Yes on the Gencon vote for one simple reason: it would not surprise me in the least if they have blown most/all of their Kickstarter money already, and they need the Gencon cash to pay for shipping to backers. PB's lack of accounting acumen is legendary (google "crisis of treachery" at some point if you're unfamiliar with the story). It wouldn't be the first time a Kickstarter project needed to do something like that (although it might be the biggest) and it is totally the kind of situation that Palladium would find themselves in through incompetence and/or malfeasance.

rigeld2 wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
Why limit it to only people who pledged for the box set? Just make it "If you preordered, get on this list if you're at gen Con and we'll have one copy of the base game for you to pick up." You cross that part of their pledge as completed. Then they bring what they wanted to sell, plus enough to cover the sign ups. Boom, done. Easy peasy.

That requires an organized effort and willingness to deal with the inevitable problems.

PB doesn't strike me as the most organized organization.

Granted it does require a modicum of capability and competence, two things Palladium staff lacks.

 SavageRobby wrote:

I didn't back this because I'm incredibly familiar with Palladium, their reputation and their absolute lack of anything even remotely resembling ethics, and I won't ever grace Kevin with a red nickel of my money, ever again.

That said, as backers, you might consider voting Yes on the Gencon vote for one simple reason: it would not surprise me in the least if they have blown most/all of their Kickstarter money already, and they need the Gencon cash to pay for shipping to backers. PB's lack of accounting acumen is legendary (google "crisis of treachery" at some point if you're unfamiliar with the story). It wouldn't be the first time a Kickstarter project needed to do something like that (although it might be the biggest) and it is totally the kind of situation that Palladium would find themselves in through incompetence and/or malfeasance.

the Crisis of treachery was a big joke, if anybody bothered to read the police report and the DA's report it was a lot less then Kevin told his fan boyz, and it was not quite what he said it was, since very little cash if any was stolen.

 SavageRobby wrote:

That said, as backers, you might consider voting Yes on the Gencon vote for one simple reason: it would not surprise me in the least if they have blown most/all of their Kickstarter money already, and they need the Gencon cash to pay for shipping to backers.

This comes up every so often.

All told, this project will come to around 40 sprues to cover the figures.

Wave 1 accounts for 12 of them, off the top of my head.

If they're already out of money, the whole project is dead and we might as well start sharpening our pitchforks and google map'ing the route to their offices.

 Forar wrote:

 SavageRobby wrote:

That said, as backers, you might consider voting Yes on the Gencon vote for one simple reason: it would not surprise me in the least if they have blown most/all of their Kickstarter money already, and they need the Gencon cash to pay for shipping to backers.

This comes up every so often.

All told, this project will come to around 40 sprues to cover the figures.

Wave 1 accounts for 12 of them, off the top of my head.

If they're already out of money, the whole project is dead and we might as well start sharpening our pitchforks and google map'ing the route to their offices.

Could "Crisis of Treachery part two" be in Palladiums future?

Judging from the response thus far, theyre going to get the yes vote they needed regardless.

Of course they are.

They always were, regardless of what they might claim in their recent 'murmur'.

This was always an illusion.

I was on FotM discussing how many yes votes are out of wanting this to be over and that they call BS on it. One poster asked for proof. I showed him empirical proof. As soon as I posted what he asked for he suddenly has to go. Talk about sticking your head in the sand. Kevin Semenbieda really is the Jim Jones of gaming. Guess he really did make an impact in the industry. He has a collection of very sad individuals.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I was on FotM discussing how many yes votes are out of wanting this to be over and that they call BS on it. One poster asked for proof. I showed him empirical proof. As soon as I posted what he asked for he suddenly has to go. Talk about sticking your head in the sand. Kevin Semenbieda really is the Jim Jones of gaming. Guess he really did make an impact in the industry. He has a collection of very sad individuals.

As long as he has fan boyz willing to drink the Kool-Aid he will continue to do what he does, even though its killing the company until another crisis of treachery or whatever.


Although Kevin might want to start keeping track of his lies since he might be tripping up overt hem here soon.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I was on FotM

I found the crux of your problem.

Heh, kidding, I swing by there from time to time to see how bad things are getting as well.

Seriously, that place is a cesspool.

Before he left he posted a link to a video of the dark wing duck theme. What the heck was that all about?lol It's the fact that some fanboys suddenly lose all sense of logic and go into ignoring you or atttacking you. Someone needs to make a documentary on these sad individuals. It should be called "How to Chase Away Girls".

I'm done with the FB page, it's just stupid and I've had it with the trolling. In fact I think I've had enough with the entire project. Palladium has slowly strangled the life out of something I enjoyed for nearly 3 decades and that takes dedication, even GW hasn't managed to get me to quit their miniatures entirely. Kevin is king of the donkey caves and sadly he's never going to distance himself from the IP and I'm just fed up with him, his pathetic company, and fanboys beyond words. It's been a long ride but I'm done with anything ever related to macros/robotech, all my models, books, and dvds are in the trash.

I'll still be on dakka plenty just not this thread.

 paulson games wrote:
I'm done with the FB page, it's just stupid and I've had it with the trolling. In fact I think I've had enough with the entire project. Palladium has slowly strangled the life out of something I enjoyed for nearly 3 decades and that takes dedication, even GW hasn't managed to get me to quit their miniature entirely. Kevin is king of the donkey caves and sadly he's never going to distance himself from the IP and I'm just fed up with him and his pathetic fanboys beyond words. It's been a long ride but with anything ever related to macros/robotech, all my models, books, and dvds are in the trash.

I'll still be on dakka plenty just not this thread.

I wonder how much HG got from RT, and if it makes up for the bad feelings killing their own KS?

2012 post on the Paizo forums: "They held an in house poll where they asked their fans and mostly only their fans what they would like to see changed. Of course the results favored the "nothing changing anything" category. When their poll says that only 1% want to see a rules revison well I call that a biased poll to say the least. Im still a fam somewhat and may still get books later. Yet Im not swalling what Kevin tells me anymore without questioning it."

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oacm?Entire-Palladium-Books-collection-at-Local

More importantly, thanks for the suggestions to search on "Crisis of Treachery" and "Dead Reign".

I can't wait for "Crisis of Infinite Treachery", cross-overs are the best.

ced1106 wrote:
2012 post on the Paizo forums: "They held an in house poll where they asked their fans and mostly only their fans what they would like to see changed. Of course the results favored the "nothing changing anything" category. When their poll says that only 1% want to see a rules revison well I call that a biased poll to say the least. Im still a fam somewhat and may still get books later. Yet Im not swalling what Kevin tells me anymore without questioning it."

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oacm?Entire-Palladium-Books-collection-at-Local

More importantly, thanks for the suggestions to search on "Crisis of Treachery" and "Dead Reign".

I can't find much interesting on Dead Reign apart from "yet another half-assed book by PB". Am I not finding something interesting?

Long story short, Palladium had a freelancer write a zombie survival game, Kevin got the first draft, rewrote quite a bit of it, took all the credit, and then stiffed the writer. As I understand it.

vitae_drinker wrote:
Long story short, Palladium had a freelancer write a zombie survival game, Kevin got the first draft, rewrote quite a bit of it, took all the credit, and then stiffed the writer. As I understand it.

Ah, so PB SOP then. Got it.

At least they're consistent in being d!cks. lol

And here's a quote from an RPG.net thread -- in 2011:

"Can I ask a serious question? Why does it matter how KS manages PB? It's his, I don't believe there are any share holders. He can run it into the ground, ask for donations, put the books into a shredder, blast them to the moon, or whatever. So what if the company could have been run better and produced better books? The same can be said for a lot of companies. I've been gaming since 76 or 77, I've seen the rise and fall of TSR, SPI, Metagaming, Yaquinto (remember Man, Myth, and Magic? I do), Leading Edge, FASA, Avalon Hill, Pacesetter, GDW, and plenty of others. They died almost always as the result of bad financial management (TSR especially, and I mean, really, really bad to the tune of tens of millions of dollars and hundreds of people losing their jobs).

He's been doing it his way for 30 years, he is not going to change now. He has a vision, perhaps a spectacularly bad one in your opinion, but it's his and he seems intent on sticking to it. If he asks for another round of donations in 1, 5, or 10 years, does it matter? Those who gave the last time did so voluntarily. It's between him and the donors. It doesn't matter if he whinges, whines, moans, blames others, or whatever. It is what is and is unlikely to change for the better."

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?562952-What-was-the-Crisis-Of-Treachery/page36

EDIT: Repost from KS comments: http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/cypherxv/media/bf2bade349af4c5f2272cb2140f39434_zpsadad76c9.jpg.html

 Cyporiean wrote:
I can't wait for "Crisis of Infinite Treachery", cross-overs are the best.

Exalted!

See, this clusterfeth kickstarter is producing all kinds of gold.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
. He has a collection of very sad individuals.

THIS. I wouldn't say I'm new to ttg or fandoms but interacting with some of the palladium/RT fans can be very sad at times. It's the first time I've ever thought maybe the really really negative geek stereotypes are probably true

Sining wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
. He has a collection of very sad individuals.

THIS. I wouldn't say I'm new to ttg or fandoms but interacting with some of the palladium/RT fans can be very sad at times. It's the first time I've ever thought maybe the really really negative geek stereotypes are probably true

They're like a damned cult - and a particularly unpleasant one at that. If they kowtow hard enough do they get some KS handies or something?

So this showed up on Mike's Facebook Robotech group. The files will apparently be kept up until midnight Tuesday so you may want to download them quickly but what we have is a a set of playtest rules dated from May 2013. I'm sure there will have been many revisions since than (after all Kev needs to get his glue high from changing around the copy in each of his books) but it at least gives us an idea of what the rules may look like when we finally get them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/em4263mw4so139q/j4hc1%20%281%29.zip

 SavageRobby wrote:

That said, as backers, you might consider voting Yes on the Gencon vote for one simple reason: it would not surprise me in the least if they have blown most/all of their Kickstarter money already, and they need the Gencon cash to pay for shipping to backers. PB's lack of accounting acumen is legendary (google "crisis of treachery" at some point if you're unfamiliar with the story). It wouldn't be the first time a Kickstarter project needed to do something like that (although it might be the biggest) and it is totally the kind of situation that Palladium would find themselves in through incompetence and/or malfeasance.

Running out of money? I find that a little tough to -- oh, wait.

Christian Bleier about 11 hours ago:

To anyone here claiming this is just because we are unhappy with the delays,

THIS IRE WAS NEVER ABOUT THE DELAYS!

I went into this kickstarter fully aware that it has a very high likelyhood of being late and I have no issue with that fact. I also have no basic issue with the splitting in two waves, but I have some issue with how it is handled, but more about that later.

It is about the dishonest statements and broken promises during the kickstarter aftermath. First, it was always the understanding, that kickstarter backers would get the product first, even before the kickstarter started. Then we have the whole issue with the lets say it politely, overly optimistic estimates. Quite frankly the estimates were unrealistic to begin with but the claims shortly after the end that stuff will be "most likely" send out early? yeah that was a straight up lie. but fine I give that one as overenthusiasm. But then Deadlines were kept being touted and missed and getting any acknowledgement and new (similarly unrealistic) estimates was like pulling teeth. I didn't care enough at that time to post about it (I did once, I think) but it left a sour taste. Then we had the whole issue with "spartangate" about the lacking quality of the sculpts as well as the needlessly complex models. I had other things going on at that time so I didn't find the time to voice my displeasure then. And now we have the production models where we have models with extra parts that weren't needed and parts that without them that would have been needed (seperate missile covers on spartan and tomahawk and the engine/stabilizer assembly on the guardian come to mind) and we still have issues with the gaps and casting quality. The models are not nearly at the quality level we were promised. And now the whole issue with the gencon sales and that sham of a vote. I like to call those 2 updates "Update 148: the final insult" and "Update 149: The final insult 2 - yes, we can be even worse". That is the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

About the vote specifically, this is an attempt at emotional blackmail and a transparent attempt at blame shifting, nothing more, nothing less. The Vote was rigged from the get go, which I consider an inexcusable breach of trust and supremely insulting. The emotional blackmail part comes in play every time he needs to remind of the "importance" of gencon quietly blaming *us* in case gencon won't be as successful (it won't be) as he wishes. And then, the MOST important aspect is the blame shifting. This is a win/win situation for him and lose/lose for us. Because, right now, it is still uncertain if he will have *any* product to sell at gencon. But either way he can point to *us* as the culprit. If he has product and sells it it was with "permission" (regardless how rigged the process was) of the "loyal" backers, but if he doesn't have product to sell, he can shift blame to the "vocal minority" as an excuse at gencon (he would have loved to sell, but didn't want to upset the critics so much). Regardless of the outcome of the sale, the result is a "community" that is fundamentally split and he has someone else to blame, just not himself himself.

This is about broken promises, mismanagement, unethical business practices, extremely dysfunctional communication and a supremely slimy attempt at blame shifting. The delays have nothing to do with it, at all.

As for the future of the game, I think it is DOA. Word is already spreading like wildfire about their mismanagement of this kickstarter and the fact that you can already preorder items for less then kickstarter prices doesn't bode well either. The issues are the demonstrated inability to properly support your project, the questionable quality of your models and the complete lack of information about the rules. another issue is also your insistance of treating gencon as the only PR outlet worth a damn, but that is a serious mistake. The majority of "buzz" is generated through strong presence online, on forums, on blogs, by youtubers and social media. Also, if you consider cons, just focusing on one accomplishes exactly what? This are not the 80's anymore where there only really was gencon. Gaming is much further spread now. There are countless cons now and you ignore all of them except gencon? how smart... If gencon sales are what makes or breaks your game, you have much, MUCH bigger issues than you imagine.

As for gencon, show of a production box, have demos, preorders and give away some miniatures and raffle off a few copies, but selling them,? Hell no.

Now here are my 2 cents about *why* he wants to sell it. I suspect they are out of money. They need the sales to finance shipping of the first wave. That also doesn't bode well for the second wave, considering that the first wave only consists of about 1/3 of the necessary sprues, I don't think they are actually able to make them at this point. This is the issue I have about wave 2. I don't think we will see it in 2015 at all, if ever.

As a backer from germany, I'm even more concerned about the total lack of information about the shipping procedures and I seriously question if the UK distributor that is supposed to send the packages out even exists. I have serious doubts we will get any shipment this year, if at all, especially if my suspicion about their finances is remotely accurate.

I really regret backing this now and I would prefer a refund, so I can finally be done with this disaster.

 paulson games wrote:
I'm done with the FB page, it's just stupid and I've had it with the trolling. In fact I think I've had enough with the entire project. Palladium has slowly strangled the life out of something I enjoyed for nearly 3 decades and that takes dedication, even GW hasn't managed to get me to quit their miniatures entirely. Kevin is king of the donkey caves and sadly he's never going to distance himself from the IP and I'm just fed up with him, his pathetic company, and fanboys beyond words. It's been a long ride but I'm done with anything ever related to macros/robotech, all my models, books, and dvds are in the trash.

I'll still be on dakka plenty just not this thread.

Well can I have your stuff?

I have already mentally written off my money in Robowreck as one of my poorer choices. If I get any of my figures I will be amazed.

Between the actions of Palladium and Harmony Gold they seem to be doing the best to make GW executives look to be extremely sharp business operators

 schmoozies wrote:
So this showed up on Mike's Facebook Robotech group. The files will apparently be kept up until midnight Tuesday so you may want to download them quickly but what we have is a a set of playtest rules dated from May 2013. I'm sure there will have been many revisions since than (after all Kev needs to get his glue high from changing around the copy in each of his books) but it at least gives us an idea of what the rules may look like when we finally get them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/em4263mw4so139q/j4hc1%20%281%29.zip

In the name of all that is holy, if this is another of Mike's personalized 'totally just as good as the real rules, if not better' rules sets, I will not be held accountable for my actions.

*opens first file, sees assorted different art pieces on printable/foldable 'standees'*

Not a good sign here, folks.

Though the squadron card file is using the old points values, so that's a bit more heartening.

"Support
You can’t buy Destroid support force cards to go with Valkyrie core force cards, and vice versa.
Mixing of Destroid and Valkyrie mecha in a squadron is not allowed."

OMG FORCE BUILDING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Maybe I want my Armoured VTs working with the Destroids! I'm a force builder on the edge, don't push me man!

The reinforcement rules seem like they could be obnoxious in large scale games.

The RDF's balancing 'faction ability' doesn't seem nearly as useful, but that might just be my reading on it. Getting an extra attack versus getting a pile of units back (with proper positioning at least)?

Character creation: having mech piloting cost points basically means low level characters are strictly worse than just taking the base mech itself, but a couple of extra levels in place can bump them up with some pretty solid bonuses. Be interesting to see how that weighs out. 5-20 points just to put a 'name' on a mech seems a touch excessive.