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Of course, Destroids were meant to be piloted by players, so they needed to be beefy in order to survive extended conflicts that they'd participate in without needing to run and hide or go in for repairs/a new mech every five minutes.

The RPG stats have little basis in the anime, imo, no matter what PB might say. Destroids got wrecked on screen anytime something looked at them funny, but in the books they're several times tougher than pods (which also die if you look at them funny).

The gradation present is because of the RPG'ness, not because of the source material.

I imagine many players wanted to pilot VTs, but destroids were totally an option as well, so that's how I've extrapolated it all out. The fact that it conforms to a standard faction difference present in a wide variety of games, books and movies is just icing on the cake.

Forar is probably right, but them VT's can take a few shots as well and unless they were piloted by main characters they seemed to die easily as well.

Yeah, and X-Wings that weren't piloted by Wedge or Luke got blown out of the sky just fine too.

That's plot armour for you.

Random rookie? Dies in 1 shot.

Main character? Survives getting pounded by two dozen missiles.

Or gets tagged and powers through to die in a heroic yet stupid fashion on his girlfriend's couch because someone can't be bothered waiting 5 minutes for the doctor.

Though that brings me to another point; I sincerely hope the character system has been improved, because at a glance, there are holes in the 'create your own character' aspect that you can drive MAC II's through.

Edit: also, the special characters flat out ignore the RPG character system. Abilities exist on them that aren't on the very brief list, they don't bother paying for their available mechs to pilot. This section definitely needs some significant tightening up.

I had a new system done up for Character Conversion a long time ago.....and yes it uses the Character stats from the RPG, PP, Level, HTH Type.

Mike1975 wrote:
I had a new system done up for Character Conversion a long time ago.....and yes it uses the Character stats from the RPG, PP, Level, HTH Type.

TBH, using the RPG system for... well, anything at all, seeing how absolutely unable to map the series is, feels backwards to me.

It makes sense since the name of the game is Robotech RPG Tactics... if you're going to include the RPG in the name, you should have a way to map the game back to the RPG.

Just saying. I think it's stupid and that they should be separate, but I understand why they've done it.

rigeld2 wrote:
It makes sense since the name of the game is Robotech RPG Tactics... if you're going to include the RPG in the name, you should have a way to map the game back to the RPG.

Just saying. I think it's stupid and that they should be separate, but I understand why they've done it.

The present system you get X points to spend on your character depending upon level. It also includes having to purchase your mecha for your character. The points don't match up with the game points one to one either.

My system you get points for each character level, points for having a high PP like Max, Miriya, and most of the special characters, and you get modifiers depending upon what HTH you have (Martial Arts, Expert, Basic). The HTH does not have a huge influence AND your not paying points to buy a mecha. The Points for your character = in game points. So if your character is worth 12 points, when you play you can plug him into a mech for 12 points. If he's a destroid pilot in a veritech or vice versa he faces a penalty. Pretty simple and true to the RPG.

The "advancement points" and the "game points" not matching 1 to 1 is either something I missed in my read through, or has been changed since this packet, and needing to buy available mechs (at considerable expense) is what makes the characters seem utterly absurd. Rick Hunter is a 5 point pilot that has like 130 points worth of mechs available to fly, so that immediately caught me off guard.

"Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend."

If a character is a Special Force Card, and Squads can only have one Special Force card attached to them, then an RPG converted pilot cannot ride in a VT-1S (which is also a Special card) unless the RPG rules completely ignore squad construction rules in that fashion.

There's other weirdness, such as stating that since character's are protagonists, they start with a Pilot and Gunnery skill of 2... but best I can tell, most mechs base pilots have those at a 2 or higher already. If the character's "physical prowess" (dexterity) is a 16 or higher they start at 3 each, but this doesn't touch upon how that influences the Veritech, where Pilot and Gunnery change from form to form. One can extrapolate that the forms get a bonus to one or the other by comparing the baseline, but that kind of vagueness in rules is something that gets Palladium systems in trouble all the time.

Long story short, there are pre-generated characters, and there are rules for making RPG character into something easily translated to the board game for GM's to play with, but in terms of being able to make simple, cost effective characters to add to ones squads for fun, the May 2013 edition seems to be a flop.

 Forar wrote:
the May 2013 edition seems to be a flop.

I'm shocked - SHOCKED - to hear such an evaluation.
Surely this is pre-pre-pre-Alpha and the almighty Kevin has copy and Elmer'sed a better version!

 Forar wrote:
The "advancement points" and the "game points" not matching 1 to 1 is either something I missed in my read through, or has been changed since this packet, and needing to buy available mechs (at considerable expense) is what makes the characters seem utterly absurd. Rick Hunter is a 5 point pilot that has like 130 points worth of mechs available to fly, so that immediately caught me off guard.

"Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend."

If a character is a Special Force Card, and Squads can only have one Special Force card attached to them, then an RPG converted pilot cannot ride in a VT-1S (which is also a Special card) unless the RPG rules completely ignore squad construction rules in that fashion.

There's other weirdness, such as stating that since character's are protagonists, they start with a Pilot and Gunnery skill of 2... but best I can tell, most mechs base pilots have those at a 2 or higher already. If the character's "physical prowess" (dexterity) is a 16 or higher they start at 3 each, but this doesn't touch upon how that influences the Veritech, where Pilot and Gunnery change from form to form. One can extrapolate that the forms get a bonus to one or the other by comparing the baseline, but that kind of vagueness in rules is something that gets Palladium systems in trouble all the time.

Long story short, there are pre-generated characters, and there are rules for making RPG character into something easily translated to the board game for GM's to play with, but in terms of being able to make simple, cost effective characters to add to ones squads for fun, the May 2013 edition seems to be a flop.

So a few things here, Characters are not Special cards or support cards, so they do not count against your total cards when building a force. So you can choose a VF-1S and add Roy or some other character.

The Base 2 PIL and 2 GUN is before you pay points to add to their skills and get +1 to PIL or GUN. Most units have 2 Gun and 2 Pil except veritechs that things change depending upon what mode they are in. Your assuming your character is baseline with everyone else and adding depending upon his skill level. Problem is when you have to add to that skill level AND purchase a mecha.

My rules are different.

Mike1975 wrote:
So a few things here, Characters are not Special cards or support cards, so they do not count against your total cards when building a force. So you can choose a VF-1S and add Roy or some other character.

Ah, that makes sense for pre-generated characters.

However, regarding custom made characters;

Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend.

The Base 2 PIL and 2 GUN is before you pay points to add to their skills and get +1 to PIL or GUN. Most units have 2 Gun and 2 Pil except veritechs that things change depending upon what mode they are in. Your assuming your character is baseline with everyone else and adding depending upon his skill level. Problem is when you have to add to that skill level AND purchase a mecha.

That's my point. They state that players start at 2/2, when the baseline is... already 2/2 or better. Or 3/3 with a high PP, but that isn't a particularly big jump, as having one, the other or both at 3 (at least on the RDF side) isn't uncommon either.

The purchasing a mech is a huge cost, especially for 'the good gak'. Dumping 20+ points into just being able to put a name on a higher priced unit like a Super VT is going to need a good beefing up of the stats to justify it, but then it's a good 20%+ of your force's points (for a standard 300 point game) in one single figure.

My rules are different.

Of course they are, but we're talking about the official rules here, or at least the older version thereof. The version I'll be expected to play at tournaments, or in a store against a random stranger.

Now, the RPG conversion rules may not be intended for such play, which would be highly disappointing. I was looking forward to being able to make my own pilots, advance them through games at the rate of my choosing (by paying extra for them), but these just don't add up, and the way the pregens are built, they clearly ignored a pile of the rules for those, meaning that the RPG conversion rules are either not applicable in the same way to purely Tactics built gameplay, or they forgot to carry a two again.

Late edit: and according to the force organization chart they gave us last year, MAC II's can't be Command Destroids. A squad is limited to 1 Special card and both MAC II's and Command Upgrades are Special cards.

Obviously subject to change whenever we get to see the damned final final 100% finally final rule book.

 Forar wrote:

Obviously subject to change whenever we get to see the damned final final 100% finally final rule book.

That's be why I always made it clear I didn't care at all what Mike's rules said. "They're basically the same!" he'd cry, except when he would declare "But my rules are different on that".

So, what's the feeling? Are the rules going to be mediocre, bad, or abysmal?

I'm setting my expectations *low*

"Functional" would be nice, but I'm kind of expecting it to be a giant mess and to need to revise, streamline or outright build from scratch some stuff.

So... basically coming back full circle a decade and a half later to my Rifts experiences.

We had fun, but a bunch of that stuff was simply baffling. I came into this knowing it was a risk, but the involvement of ND and Alessio (?) or whatever that guy's name is made me hopeful it wouldn't be too bad.

Then I saw the May 2013 rules and just saw what I can only describe as "Palladiumisms" everywhere.

 Forar wrote:
We had fun, but a bunch of that stuff was simply baffling. I came into this knowing it was a risk, but the involvement of ND and Alessio (?) or whatever that guy's name is made me hopeful it wouldn't be too bad.

Alesso (the guy who wrote Song of Blades and Heroes?) was supposed to write the rules? k. He's also writing the rules for ADW's Doggerel (?) line, and I don't trust ADW one bit.

After Doom that Came to Atlantic City, I don't weigh the designer's name in my decision to back a project. (Theme and designer name will attract me to a project, y'know, if KS were a store.)

Many sculptors get paid on spec, so I don't weigh them either, although I don't know how ND was involved in this. Plus, their reputation with Relic Knights at the time of the project wasn't all that good.

Given how Mike's rules were May 2013 (?) and how Kevin Siembda (sp) rewrites Palladium rulebooks at the last minute without playtesting, I don't expect the final rules to look like the 2013 ones.

Anyway, I try to nail down who the project manager is on a project. I just did some research on Harmony Gold, so don't back their KS, either.

Here is what I had done, at least until I was told the Character Conversion Rules would stay as they are.

The abilities still need balancing but I have not looked at this in a while. Feel free to comment because I plan on doing an unofficial FAQ/rules additions when things hit retail. Maybe PB will adopt some of the rules for an advanced rules set with some good skirmish rules.

Mike1975 wrote:
Maybe PB will adopt some of the rules for an advanced rules set with some good skirmish rules.

HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh, sorry. You actually believe that's possible.
It's disappointing, but not surprising, that the rules are as bad as they are. Thanks Kevin for fething it up. Again.

rigeld2 wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
Maybe PB will adopt some of the rules for an advanced rules set with some good skirmish rules.

HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh, sorry. You actually believe that's possible.
It's disappointing, but not surprising, that the rules are as bad as they are. Thanks Kevin for fething it up. Again.

Actually I don't give a gak. If they do then they will be official which will be good for you all, well the ones that will play using the official rules. If they don't I will post them and use them myself regardless.

So, just got noticed my reminder to fill out the survey. I only put in for $15, but now I can add to the pledge. However looking at some of the feedback I'm wondering if it will be worth it. Whats the sweetspot on this one? Whats worth getting? I figure the game itself might be all right, but are any of the limited edition or add ons worth it. Still not sure of the miniature quality. Who has suggestions?

Might want to check with Palladium to make sure such a late update won't be an issue, but if you're willing to ignore the seething bullgak surrounding this project, the "Battle Cry" tier is the sweet spot. 97 models for $140, a good spread of figures on both sides, should provide significant variety. It also comes with 4 limited edition figures.

Considering what we're seeing stores list as pre-order prices, the add ons don't seem to be worth it. Originally it seemed like a solid idea, since we were supposed to get them 'first', long before retail, but now with Wave 2 having so many question marks around it, I'd ignore those unless you absolutely have to have them.

The exceptions to this would be the items that will only be available at conventions or through the Kickstarter; the 2 objective marker packs, the resin SDF-1, and the Battlefoam bag. If you go for the bag, you should absolutely double check with Palladium, as they've already been made, and there's been some commentary on possibly not being able to get more made, so depending on how thin a line they walked when they ordered the stock, you may be SOL on those.

Oh, right, there's one other; the VEF-1/1D pack, which at retail may only have 2 fighters, but due to a feth up on their end, in the Kickstarter it'll contain 4 fighters.

Again, I can't suggest giving these donkey caves any more money in good conscience, but if you feel you must 'get in on this', a Battle Cry (or two if you're feeling particularly well funded) is the sweet spot, and the harder to come by add ons are the only ones I'd bother looking at.

I'm in for 3 battle cry boxes and a pile of add ons, and man, in hindsight I wish I'd only gotten 1 or 2 boxes and maybe one add on. 8 Boxes across 2 friends and I, when in reality 4 probably would've done us just fine, 6 tops. Mistakes were made, and there's definitely some regret present, having so much in funding tied up in this gak.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
So, just got noticed my reminder to fill out the survey. I only put in for $15, but now I can add to the pledge. However looking at some of the feedback I'm wondering if it will be worth it. Whats the sweetspot on this one? Whats worth getting? I figure the game itself might be all right, but are any of the limited edition or add ons worth it. Still not sure of the miniature quality. Who has suggestions?

I'd avoid giving them another penny, because they're awful.

However, if you want the minis, and you don't want to get screwed, don't get ANYTHING that isn't in Wave One. The reason being I still think there's only a 50/50 shot of PB actually successfully shipping Wave Two.

Actually, I ran the math, and a Battle Cry should still save one money using retail prices (ie: around 1/3 off MSRP) with wave one alone. Wave two becomes pure 'profit' so to speak, should it/part of it ever be made and delivered.

The savings aren't huge, but they're still there, even with just the first wave of items.

Edit: here's the napkin math I did on the matter. It may not be 100% accurate in the end, but I think my base premise is sound.

"Core Box ($100 MSRP)
2 VT packs ($75 MSRP)
2 Battlepod packs ($75 MSRP)
1 Command Pack ($37 MSRP)
1 Spartan/Phalanx Pack ($33 MSRP)
= $320 MSRP. Knock 35% off and you get $208 at retail, that backers paid $140 for. Since Miniature Market has pretty nasty S&H charges all their own, international backers aren't any further out either.

Plus Wave Two. Which yes yes, some don't believe will happen, but even if it doesn't, the backers at least break even on Wave One, even if it's not the rocking 1/4 retail we were expecting to get all told (I do think wave 2 will happen, I just think we'll be doing this again next August barring a minor miracle).
You have to get into, like, a 60% or better discount before backers actively start losing money, and again, that's just on Wave One. The moment Wave Two becomes a reality (in 2016 or whatever), we're way in the black again barring, like, a 90% off sale at MM.
And they'd have long abandoned the product line before that."

Long story short, as long as they actually deliver wave one and it isn't steaming poop in a box (yes, some people think it is already steaming poop in a box, those people should be looking for other people to take over their backer status), the backers aren't actually 'behind' any money even with just wave one. Wave two is where the real value kicks in, and we end up paying maybe 1/4 retail prices for over half a grand in minis (more napkin math), if not 1/5th.

Hence, getting a "battle cry" or a "showdown" isn't necessarily a bad idea, even with a solid portion of the value (40-50%, depending on how things turn out) locked up in a wave of packages we may be waiting a year or more on, and assuming one is committed to the idea of buying some (again, I'm not actively advocating giving these donkey caves more money, simply noting the most cost effective manner of buying into the project should one feel so inclined even having read dozens of pages of shenanigans here).

Saw this in the comments.

"Bill Briggs about 2 hours ago
The time I met Kevin at a con he was, actually, very nice. Friendly, warm, charismatic—everything you’d want from a business owner and convention guest. A little while later he “caught” a handful of us discussing the problems with the Megaversal system. We were at a private table, in the restaurant, minding our own business, discussing amongst ourselves. He came over to us and went off like a bomb: yelling and screaming about us not “getting it” or being “real gamers.” He went from nice and friendly to narcissistic and (almost) declaring himself a martyr for the gaming industry.
Needless to say, we were all rather gob smacked.
He was actually asked, by the manager of the restaurant, to leave. He went off on him about being a guest at the convention. The manager wasn’t terribly impressed.
That’s just my, personal, experience with the guy."

Sounds like most people's experience with him, even his ex-employees.

I've known quite a few people like that, who were overly positive about everything and eventually you learn you can't trust them. Either they're intentionally lying to you or they're also lying to themselves. Neither of which makes for very dependable people

Bipolar

Good news everybody!

Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.

What could go wrong?

Merijeek wrote:
Good news everybody!

Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.

What could go wrong?

For $2, you're allowed to speak ill of the project!

I'm in at the $2 buck mark

 Platuan4th wrote:

Merijeek wrote:
Good news everybody!

Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.

What could go wrong?

For $2, you're allowed to speak ill of the project!

Or you can just put in $1 and speak ill of the project. Bucking the system like a real enemy spy!

Or, in my case, just to mock them and point out the holes in the crap they're trying to make float.

Entertainment value totally worth the dollar.

I gave them the extra buck for the picture to throw darts at. I figure that is the best booby prize possible if they end up funded.

If RTA doesn't get to 500k I wouldn't be surprised if they take whatever money they suckered out of people and just say ok we'll make it work. Then a year or two later HG declares the project dead because of lack of funding. Thereby Kevin Mc blaming the fans for not trying hard enough to get other suckers to donate.