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A goodie for you all.

Left this for Kevin on his latest murmur on FB.

"I understand why your no longer giving release dates. I'm glad your learning. But please don't sell yourself as the victim. For years and the duration of the RRT project you've missed your own deadlines. Even worse you secretly push books back. For example the RT marines book was supposed to come out in the spring. Now it's at the back of the line because of some other books that were never mentioned till recently. I don't understand where this lack of focus comes from. You either work on something till it's done or don't bother with it at all.

Now to make matters worse you've got the backers all rilled up over the disingenuous way you planned on selling RRT at GC when you yourself in update after update told your backers that they were getting the product first. Since the models are stuck in customs many are claiming its karma returning the favor. Then you have your demo teams play it off like it's an RPG when it was sold as a miniatures game. It's all moot now unless your small miracle comes through.

In the future if you run another kickstarter please be more honest and forthcoming with the people who give you their hard earned cash. You've purposely misled your backers for months at a time about the problems ND division encountered with the technical aspects of making the sprues. Saying that everything is great and there's no problems whatsoever makes you look dishonest and like you have something to hide. That's not a good way to run a business. Especially in this day and age where through social media news travels fast, especially bad news.

Others I won't say who have mentioned that the backers are mean people. First of all you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Second your constant lies and false release dates have created this situation. Nobody entered into the project wanting to criticize you or PB. This is something of your own making. Please understand that miniature gamers aren't the laid back players your used to. They will bend and break every rule inconsistency found in the rules book. If the backers are "mean" it's because you divided the community with your false statements.

Now wave two was scheduled to come out this year and now it may not be till GC 2015. Will you ask the backers for another vote? Will you put them thru that again. Many yes votes were made in out of spite and fear their order would be messed with. Please Kevin learn from your mistakes. And please take pictures of the box and inside contents instead of only showing it to a select few. As others have mentioned show don't tell.

As always thank you Kevin for reading the ravings of a true fan."

While I obviously agree with your points, you're ironically giving palladium too much credit. Even RPGers in general don't agree with their decades long policies of obfuscation, ignorance, and arrogance which is why so many people stopped playing their RPGs to the point that they've unofficially killed off all but two or three of them by cutting support for years. If you mention palladium on indy RPG sites, the hate flows just as freely.

Second, the RT book was supposed to come out many, many years ago and they actually lost the primary author to FFG who quipped that at least he'll finally be able to make "marines in space" via the Deathwatch FFG product line. The most recent version has been following the sad but typical pathetic "keep promising yet simultaneously failing" production schedule.

I picked up a "christmas grab bag" mainly for the max and miriya minis but got robotech books as well. I, at that time prior to the obvious impending RRPGT delays, at least considered getting the marines book which was a "quick release" that was "realistically... early 2014".

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=693:palladium-booksr-weekly-update-november-8-2013&catid=52:weekly-updates&Itemid=183

Which with a bit of research showed it was supposed to be a Fall 2013 release when reannounced in its current form.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=675:palladium-booksr-weekly-update-july-18-2013&catid=52:weekly-updates&Itemid=183

And has crept steadily along with RRPGT's delays from the "realistically... early 2014" to early then late spring to various parts of summer to now "later this year". In the meantime, other books have come out. Now, admittedly, some of them were even more screwed up by delays like BOTH their NG crowdfunding books and deserved to be worked on first but others just seem to come out of the woodwork and get edited, art assigned and done, and laid out seemingly out of no where while promised and hyped books languish. This is of course nothing new but it is sad that after decades of publicly having this issue that Palladium as a company seemingly still has the attention span of a terrier confronted simultaneously in different directions by a squirrel, a thrown ball, another dog in heat, and bacon.

In the end, I'm just another lost customer for this product among others that I had definitive plans to buy (like more RRPGT).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike1975 wrote:
A goodie for you all.

Thanks for the update, Mike. Is that your own review or part of the official product? It is good to see some stats mentioned on the experimentals even if I don't at the moment plan on making some of my Battlecry minis in that version. How would you say the normal Qrau differs in play from the modified one? Longer range from the description?

Added a few things

Do you think Siembieda really gives a flying flip about Robotech RRT? Other than the cash or hype potential.

Could he even run RRT?

Does he know the rules? or is he letting other people handle all that? That's kinda what it seems like.

I haven't seen or heard Kev playing RRT.

Could he even run a demo of it, if he had to?

Do you really think he thinks that the mini game will spark a stampede of new interest in the RPG (it won't)?

The fact that it has RPG in the title leads me to believe that he sees it as an add on to the RPG rather than a stand alone.

I'm really hoping to see a lot of video of all this drama on youtube.

He doesn't even know or use his own RPG rules that he created 20-30 years ago when he runs games. I don't think he'll be the goto source for rules questions in RRPGT either.

@Mike: Do my eyes deceive me?? Is the VF-1J now finally a support card? If so, then yay! Also, you named the files "official" but they have your personal card look. Are they your own versions but the same stats then? Finally, is the Support: Zentraedi Gluu-Ger Infantry Squad supposed to be 6x guys as graphically shown or 12x like you have listed?

Hey Warboss, no, I made my own VF-1J for all variants, Armored, Super, Jotun, and added them in for you and a few others.

The Support squads should be 6 guys not 12. I screwed up something if that is what you see. I'll fix tomorrow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hate proofreading, I suck at it, thanks for the tip.

Maybe the non-official files shouldn't be named official for the sake of not confusing people

As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.

 warboss wrote:
As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.

Heh.

Could you elaborate polysyllabically?

 warboss wrote:
Could you elaborate polysyllabically?

Sure. What you're experiencing is the same Hokey-Pokey-Derpey that Mike has been dancing for the last six months on the actual KS pages. He posts "his rules" which are "basically the same as the official rules" (which he occasionally admits, and occasionally denies having seen in the last 15 or so months).

When questioned he typically hits the "Oh, I can't answer THAT question because of the NDA", but I'll spend a bunch of time tap dancing around it.

For example, you'll notice that he labeled his stuff as "official" but didn't actually admit they were yet more of his home made stuff until you specifically asked.

When it's pointed out how useless his "official" rules are (note - scare quotes because they're the opposite of "official"), people are just being mean because they're a bunch of haters who hate the game and don't like him.

And then you come along and basically go through the same processes, though slightly abbreviated.

I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.

Although calling stuff official when they're not, I've got no explanations for that

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Left this for Kevin on his latest murmur on FB.

"I understand why your no longer giving release dates. I'm glad your learning. But please don't sell yourself as the victim. For years and the duration of the RRT project you've missed your own deadlines. Even worse you secretly push books back. For example the RT marines book was supposed to come out in the spring. Now it's at the back of the line because of some other books that were never mentioned till recently. I don't understand where this lack of focus comes from. You either work on something till it's done or don't bother with it at all.

Now to make matters worse you've got the backers all rilled up over the disingenuous way you planned on selling RRT at GC when you yourself in update after update told your backers that they were getting the product first. Since the models are stuck in customs many are claiming its karma returning the favor. Then you have your demo teams play it off like it's an RPG when it was sold as a miniatures game. It's all moot now unless your small miracle comes through.

In the future if you run another kickstarter please be more honest and forthcoming with the people who give you their hard earned cash. You've purposely misled your backers for months at a time about the problems ND division encountered with the technical aspects of making the sprues. Saying that everything is great and there's no problems whatsoever makes you look dishonest and like you have something to hide. That's not a good way to run a business. Especially in this day and age where through social media news travels fast, especially bad news.

Others I won't say who have mentioned that the backers are mean people. First of all you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Second your constant lies and false release dates have created this situation. Nobody entered into the project wanting to criticize you or PB. This is something of your own making. Please understand that miniature gamers aren't the laid back players your used to. They will bend and break every rule inconsistency found in the rules book. If the backers are "mean" it's because you divided the community with your false statements.

Now wave two was scheduled to come out this year and now it may not be till GC 2015. Will you ask the backers for another vote? Will you put them thru that again. Many yes votes were made in out of spite and fear their order would be messed with. Please Kevin learn from your mistakes. And please take pictures of the box and inside contents instead of only showing it to a select few. As others have mentioned show don't tell.

As always thank you Kevin for reading the ravings of a true fan."

Just curious - did that post get any 'official' responses - or was it deleted/locked/whatever?

No it just got a bunch of likes.

Sining wrote:
I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.

?

Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.

You can't really houserule when you're playing at a store with new people or tournaments

 warboss wrote:
As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.

Hey Warboss, actually all the stats are official with the exception of the XX-1J cards that I made individually since the stats are already there and correct they just only come as part of a squadron. I'll not change the name but I will add a sheet that says that the VF-1J single cards are not part of the official stuff. The reason I want to leave the name as official is because I will have my own set that I will use in my games that changes some stats on a couple stats like the Super VT's. The Super VT in Tactics, due to the conversions from the RPG using the damage from the Main Body only the Supers do not take any more damage than a regular VT. I'm giving them 3 more points and changing the prices of a few units for my personal games.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sining wrote:
I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.

?

Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.

In my experience, they'll try to house rule everything in a contradictory fashion from one player to the next or at best focus only on different parts that benefit their own armies to the exclusion of other stuff. If house rules were some magic panacea for tabletop games, Palladium would be the top RPG company. Instead they're a has been also ran on life support prior to Robotech Tactics. House rules should be an option to add flavor to a game, not something necessary to fix problems that were known yet not addressed.

Merijeek wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Could you elaborate polysyllabically?

Sure. What you're experiencing is the same Hokey-Pokey-Derpey that Mike has been dancing for the last six months on the actual KS pages. He posts "his rules" which are "basically the same as the official rules" (which he occasionally admits, and occasionally denies having seen in the last 15 or so months).

When questioned he typically hits the "Oh, I can't answer THAT question because of the NDA", but I'll spend a bunch of time tap dancing around it.

For example, you'll notice that he labeled his stuff as "official" but didn't actually admit they were yet more of his home made stuff until you specifically asked.

When it's pointed out how useless his "official" rules are (note - scare quotes because they're the opposite of "official"), people are just being mean because they're a bunch of haters who hate the game and don't like him.

And then you come along and basically go through the same processes, though slightly abbreviated.

1. I've never done the Hokey-Pokey and have answered every question that I can.

2. Name ONE rules question that I have not answered because of an NDA. I have had questions with regards to other things that are not rules related that were not appropriate to answer and so I did not answer them.

3. I never answered Warboss's question until just now so your response is just.....well.....asinine.

4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sining wrote:
I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.

?

Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.

In my experience, they'll try to house rule everything in a contradictory fashion from one player to the next or at best focus only on different parts that benefit their own armies to the exclusion of other stuff. If house rules were some magic panacea for tabletop games, Palladium would be the top RPG company. Instead they're a has been also ran on life support prior to Robotech Tactics. House rules should be an option to add flavor to a game, not something necessary to fix problems that were known yet not addressed.

House rules can favor factions, that's why if you have a group that plays with them and uses them house rules should only be used if everyone agrees to them. When you have a good bunch of guys to play with House Rules can actually add a lot of fun to a game.

I agree that they can be if you're tight with a bunch of players and everyone agrees. The problem is that, at least in my experience, that isn't the typical FLGS scenario for a new game. Most of the time you end up playing at best an acquaintance in a random pick up game whose first name you *might* know and whom you may have played only a few times over the years in other games. In that baseline scenario, solid rules as written is the best approach as it is a common ground to stand on.

I don't have any issues with house rules as I've made up plenty for the games I play but they're not a replacement for the foundation of solid rules. I can't fully speak to the RRPGT rules as I obviously don't have them yet but I'm not particularly hopeful given the apparent complete lack of response to issues raised last year. YMMV but I don't view the glass half full when Palladium uses the same lazy hand wave off approach to rules issues that they apparently do to equally important things like keeping their word or project planning.

Mike1975 wrote:

1. I've never done the Hokey-Pokey and have answered every question that I can.

Whatever, Mike. Your answers are pretty much always "I know this, but I can't tell you! NDA!". If someone really wants to find evidence they can read through the nearly 80k comments over on the RT KS site.

Mike1975 wrote:
4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.

You were doing so well before this.
It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine.
I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.

Good idea. I only wish there was one in the KS comments.

 Talizvar wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.

You were doing so well before this.
It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine.
I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.

Or he could take a step back, remember it is just a game and despite how much work he put into it. It is not his game and people really only care about true offical rules. When the game comes out it is just going to get worse.

PB is about equal to GW in there rules quailty, now PB is in the Table Top Model game. They will be looked at and judged by their rules for it, we don't care about house rules. We want a system that you can take anywhere and get a game using the rules for the game with out having to spend a hour pregame making up are own rules. This is way they will be treated the just like GW for this, most will just not care (really they won't, they will just pick a game without all the BS), some will say PB can do no good (likely poeple who have played their RPGs, and in a lot of ways they are right), and a few will white-knight (never us that term before) with the game is great you just need to change this and do that and it is fine.

Noir wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.

You were doing so well before this.
It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine.
I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.

Or he could take a step back, remember it is just a game and despite how much work he put into it. It is not his game and people really only care about true offical rules. When the game comes out it is just going to get worse.

PB is about equal to GW in there rules quailty, now PB is in the Table Top Model game. They will be looked at and judged by their rules for it, we don't care about house rules. We want a system that you can take anywhere and get a game using the rules for the game with out having to spend a hour pregame making up are own rules. This is way they will be treated the just like GW for this, most will just not care (really they won't, they will just pick a game without all the BS), some will say PB can do no good (likely poeple who have played their RPGs, and in a lot of ways they are right), and a few will white-knight (never us that term before) with the game is great you just need to change this and do that and it is fine.

Noir, I completely understand your point and agree. If you have read the KS comments and also the comments here you know that I can and do take things personally sometime but most of the time I don't. I typically try to be open and fair minded. Some people just have proven that they are so far to one side of the argument there is not point talking any further.

To date I have not had to take this action with anyone else. I have had good discussion with many that I disagree with and they have been not always been polite but the respect was still there. There is only one person that has shown a kind of attitude and complete lack of respect for others. I simply took some good advice and used the Ignore button. This is far from the first encounter or the first time I've seen the same encounter play out towards people other than myself with this person. I just chose to no longer put up with it. Sad that I feel that I'm better off taking that stand, but that's life.

No offense to anyone, but i'm going to wait to read ANY rules until I have the "official" rule book that comes with the "boxed game".

fruitlewps wrote:
No offense to anyone, but i'm going to wait to read ANY rules until I have the "official" rule book that comes with the "boxed game".

Do we get rules too?

I wonder if they will be folded in half to have a nice seam down the middle

Hey, look I got some KS rewards in the mail today. This is my third KS to come in that funded AFTER this PoS.

As much as I respect the time that goes into designing a rules set, so far I'm 0/2 out of the fan versions I've seen.

I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to have to write this one from the ground up.

Edit; which of course is fairly fitting for a Palladium game.