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Sadly, from the looks of things, as long as Kevin Siembieda is in charge, things absolutley will not be changing.

I wonder if "Palladium Books" can even survive when Kevin steps down/retires/dies?

If it does, it will probably look radically different than it does today - so much so as to almost be unrecognizable!

 Talizvar wrote:

7) Review publishing methods and modernize the layout process for the RPG systems. HEY! New editions with fixes and cleanups on EVERYTHING money in the bank and not have to create huge new stuff! Look at streamlining the RPG system without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

There's a great line in Shannon Appelcline's Designers & Dragons about Palladium where Kevin held on to doing physical paste-up (literally, printing columns of text, running them through a waxer, then aligning them on boards) because it was faster for him. I think they've finally upgraded (and the RRT rules I've seen pics of looks more modern) but doing manual pasteup for a 100+ page RPG seems like a painful process. Every change requires essentially re-doing a section. I'm guessing it was 'faster' because he could do it himself vs. micro-managing some poor designer, as setting up a basic two-column template in InDesign looks like a few hours work at best, and being able to change a word without having to grab a xacto has to be faster...

The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. Presumably there's an exception for some really outdated stuff and licensed works once the license expires, but I do wonder if this contributes to the general reluctance to upgrade the core RPG rules.

If I was in charge?

1. Go over the books, figure out whats going on with the finances.
2. Interview the staff, request self assessments, and conduct performance feedback sessions with dossiers/files on each employee. Let go where appropriate, and advertise for new positions where needed.
3. Close the doors on Palladium Books forever. There are just too many negative thoughts/feelings associated with anything that Palladium Books does. They are the example of what NOT to do in the gaming industry.
4. Liquidate remaining stock, pay off remaining debt
5. Start a new company- call it Phoenix Games or something and make no mention whatsoever of ANY connection at all to Palladium Games. Clean slate, fresh start.
6. During this entire process, encourage a more open dialogue with the Robotech Backers, find out what the shipping issues are with the game, and meet the current obligations as much as possible. A lot of people might not like this part, but I'd basically say "Sorry, we don't have the money to meet our obligations and are closing our doors."
7. Revamp the entire "Robotech RPG Tactics" game. Many of you have no idea how Robotech RPG plays... if you are a table top gamer, you will be disappointed. If you are an RPG'er, you will be saying "WTF is this?!". It's crap. Complete, stinking crap IMO.
8. Relaunch Robotech, and give free rules to those that already have the game.
9. If the financials support it from #1 above, revamp and re-release the RPG books/lines that make money, and say good bye to the ones that don't. Maybe look into re-writes of the rules.

I'm not educated in business law, but I think closing the doors and completely separating ones self from the old PB name might have some rather significant issues to be overcome with transferring the license to even work with RRT.

Now, obviously I see you mean that they should make a point of it being a new name, new games, new style of business to the public and retailers, but I know enough from working with our own releases, requests and stuff that goes past legal to know that shuttering the windows and locking the doors, even if figuratively, would probably be a bit of a nightmare of negotiations.

Look at it from HG's side; the person with your license just admitted their own name brand is so toxic it's actively detrimental to their sales. Is that really someone you want to retain access to your flagship IP?

 Forar wrote:

Look at it from HG's side; the person with your license just admitted their own name brand is so toxic it's actively detrimental to their sales. Is that really someone you want to retain access to your flagship IP?

The phrase "two peas in a pod" comes instantly to mind.

When HG's name is just as or more Toxic I doubt they see it that way or care. They can't divorce themselves from themselves.

Disagree.

Imagine a universe where somehow FFG got ahold of that license, and HG knew enough to shut up and wait to collect the cheques. Even that might be asking a bit much, but considering they've managed to walk whatever tightropes Lucasfilm, Disney, and whomever else might have them on and still pumped out quality products, quickly and often to ravenous demand, it's not impossible.

Not that I'm saying Robotech is a Star Wars sized IP, but it's obvious that some people can do the dance and do it well.

PB isn't doing them any favours in that regard.

Kevin is Palladium so until he kicks the bucket there's really no way they can reorganize the company.

I get the feeling that with folks like Wayne and NMI around that nothing would change afterwards anyways. If there is enough internet in all of China for you to post stupid twitter updates, you can post a damn KS update as well!

 Forar wrote:
Disagree.

Imagine a universe where somehow FFG got ahold of that license, and HG knew enough to shut up and wait to collect the cheques. Even that might be asking a bit much, but considering they've managed to walk whatever tightropes Lucasfilm, Disney, and whomever else might have them on and still pumped out quality products, quickly and often to ravenous demand, it's not impossible.

Not that I'm saying Robotech is a Star Wars sized IP, but it's obvious that some people can do the dance and do it well.

PB isn't doing them any favours in that regard.

I disagree, remember the PB has the RPG license, not a Miniatures gaming license so while a nice fantasy what you propose is just that.

Irrelevant to my statement. You said HG's own toxicity was just as big a problem. I pointed out that there are legal hoop jumping cluster-feths of IP's out there that companies work with just fine.

 Forar wrote:
I'm not educated in business law, but I think closing the doors and completely separating ones self from the old PB name might have some rather significant issues to be overcome with transferring the license to even work with RRT.

Now, obviously I see you mean that they should make a point of it being a new name, new games, new style of business to the public and retailers, but I know enough from working with our own releases, requests and stuff that goes past legal to know that shuttering the windows and locking the doors, even if figuratively, would probably be a bit of a nightmare of negotiations.

Look at it from HG's side; the person with your license just admitted their own name brand is so toxic it's actively detrimental to their sales. Is that really someone you want to retain access to your flagship IP?

Any company other than HG might care. HG doesn't give a damn as long as a check keeps rolling in.

Merijeek wrote:
HG doesn't give a damn as long as a check keeps rolling in.

This right here. I mean, we're talking about a company that tried to sue the 3rd largest name in the toy industry for making something that kinda sorta resembled/evokes the look of something said toy company used to make that HG has the rights to.

 Balance wrote:
The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. Presumably there's an exception for some really outdated stuff and licensed works once the license expires, but I do wonder if this contributes to the general reluctance to upgrade the core RPG rules.

I wonder if Kev is aware of scanning in material through an OCR if he has no original electronic formatting.
Actually, I really do not want to know.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Balance wrote:
The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. Presumably there's an exception for some really outdated stuff and licensed works once the license expires, but I do wonder if this contributes to the general reluctance to upgrade the core RPG rules.

I wonder if Kev is aware of scanning in material through an OCR if he has no original electronic formatting.
Actually, I really do not want to know.

Can someone explain to me what "The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. " means?

Like, why is that significant? Because he needs to keep his catalog at a certain minimum size for publishing purposes or what?

FYI, I was informed that the license for Robotech expired at PB, and recently HG went back to PB and asked them to renew it and gave them a good offer.

Nobody else wanted that license, nor pursued it. Though some of us are big fans, there aren't many of us, and the IP isn't large enough to keep a game alive very long.

Something to remember though folks, its a lot easier to be a coach on the couch than a coach on the sidelines. We can say how things should be, but we have no say in it, can't do anything to change it, and have to essentially take what we are given. We do not truly know what is going on, nor have enough information to make many assumptions. Some sure, but we aren't running game companies (yet, muhahaha!).

It stinks :(

I have gotten 6 regults together now, 1 quel-regult (HUGE PITA), 1 glaug, 2 defenders, the quel-gulnau, 2 battloids, and a fighter and guardian put together. Now I'm kinda tired of putting together models, and have over a dozen more *boxes* on the way, plus addons... this game is burning me out before I've even played it :(

The 1 thing I'd like to see now though, is a nice banner done up so I can post it in my local game stores to drum up support for the game. Heck, I could be running demos this weekend if I had one. Instead I'll probably go to the movies.

I'll call up PB next week though, see if I can talk to Kevin again and ask to pursue some of the things I proposed to him at Gencon he was open to at the time. That could re-inspire me... maybe.

Yes, it sure is easy to judge.

It's like, if you go to a doctor and instead of injecting you with the cortizone he just squirts it down your throat.

If you're not a doctor, you just don't have any grounds to criticize. You just don't understaaaaaaaaaaaand.

 Forar wrote:
Irrelevant to my statement. You said HG's own toxicity was just as big a problem. I pointed out that there are legal hoop jumping cluster-feths of IP's out there that companies work with just fine.

Yeah, regardless, your assumption includes the idea that HG could license a straight up miniatures games. As it is this license might be splitting the hairs rather fine. I think HG say $ and decided it was worth the risk. Shoot, they have not brought in any real money in a while as it is with all their messing around with the License.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Yeah, regardless, your assumption includes the idea that HG could license a straight up miniatures games. As it is this license might be splitting the hairs rather fine. I think HG say $ and decided it was worth the risk. Shoot, they have not brought in any real money in a while as it is with all their messing around with the License.

Actually, Kevin specifically told me that RRT was *NOT* allowed to be, nor to refer to itself as, a miniatures game. I'm betting there is some crazy HG licensing thing involved.

Unrelated: I *LOVE* the ability to ignore users in this forum and never see their posts, this is the best forum software EVER! No longer do I have to see folks posting completely useless information (and insults) over and over and over again. I found my new favorite hangout! Death to the troll!

Bad_Syntax wrote:
Unrelated: I *LOVE* the ability to ignore users in this forum and never see their posts,

You can also Ignore yourself. It's pretty awesome.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bad_Syntax wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

Yeah, regardless, your assumption includes the idea that HG could license a straight up miniatures games. As it is this license might be splitting the hairs rather fine. I think HG say $ and decided it was worth the risk. Shoot, they have not brought in any real money in a while as it is with all their messing around with the License.

Actually, Kevin specifically told me that RRT was *NOT* allowed to be, nor to refer to itself as, a miniatures game. I'm betting there is some crazy HG licensing thing involved.

Unrelated: I *LOVE* the ability to ignore users in this forum and never see their posts, this is the best forum software EVER! No longer do I have to see folks posting completely useless information (and insults) over and over and over again. I found my new favorite hangout! Death to the troll!

That is correct, hence the name Robotech RPG Tactics, the rules changed in the beginning to being so much like the RPG, the conversions of Characters coming from the RPG, and the units stats converted over from the RPG books. The illusion, if you will, had to be maintained.

It is my belief, though I have zero proof, that the reason the RRT "mecha" are basically tiny models is because they are, well, tiny models.

I think if PB had their way, the models would have been 4-8 pieces more like most miniature games. Nobody in their right mind wanted that many parts, many of which are freaking tiny, in a miniature game.

Soooo many of the parts simply had no reason to be split up/out.

I think HG saw the miniatures assembled, didn't realize the level of expertise required to put them together, and probably had ZERO experience with miniatures or even models to make a better assessment.

If these darned cool kickstarters could stop a while, I could replenish my funds and get more models of my own done up :(

Or you could, y'know, show some self restraint...

Also, Mike appears to have caught whatever Lolafett on the comments has where he ignores the key points of a statement for what he simply wants to read.

Dude, you're better than that.

 Forar wrote:
Or you could, y'know, show some self restraint...

Also, Mike appears to have caught whatever Lolafett on the comments has where he ignores the key points of a statement for what he simply wants to read.

Dude, you're better than that.

No, I just refuse to be drawn into the same old neverending game of twists and turns. If you are referring to the last bout of comments. Your point was that HG was Toxic and bad. I did not disagree.

You set an imaginary scenario with FFG taking RRT in hand. I said that the idea that some other company could have made tactics is false because you fail to accept/acknowledge/understand that while a mini game, RRT is licensed as an expansion of the RPG, it CANNOT be licensed as a Minis game. HG will not and cannot do that. BUT through the RPG idea Tactics has to come through PB. There is no other way.

So regardless oh how messed up the IP is, there IS literally no other way for a Robotech minis game to come to life and make $ without some serious hoops and no company would be willing to risk it for what is after all a niche game.

Do not fall into the trap that when someone disagrees they are closed minded or you will become just like Merijeek and a few others.

Am I missing something? Is there a reason why hg can not licence a mini game as mike seems to be implying

Sining wrote:
Am I missing something? Is there a reason why hg can not licence a mini game as mike seems to be implying

Because of the terms in the contract with PB I'd guess.

 Cruentus wrote:
Yup, the legs were backward. I switched them around, they look much better, thanks for that.

I'll have to find some ABS glue, any suggestions? I don't want to have these buggers falling apart on me.

Plastruct Plastic Weld is what I used on my old Starship Troopers models, which were very close to ABS. It says it will bond ABS as well, but IIRC, I had to coat both surfaces, wait a bit and then press together.

It held well enough that I was able to regularly toss my Arachnids off the table to show how strong the plastic was during demos.

-John

rigeld2 wrote:

Sining wrote:
Am I missing something? Is there a reason why hg can not licence a mini game as mike seems to be implying

Because of the terms in the contract with PB I'd guess.

Is that really the case? Has mike seen the contract then cause he seems pretty certain hg won't do a minis game. Also if the issue is the contract with pb, then I have no idea why mike implies that
Pb was forced to use RPG in the game title when they can just wrote a new contract allowing them to make it a minis game

I think the there is more info to HG not being able to do a "miniatures" game than we have heard of.

Perhaps Dark Horse still has the robotech "miniatures" trademark or perhaps in that macross lawsuit HG lost in Japan they were prevented from doing any miniatures.

Kevin told me, to my face, that they were *NOT* allowed to refer to the game as a miniatures game or the models as miniatures because HG said so. It could have been some issue with the PB license I guess, but since HG asked PB to take the license back a few years ago when PB let it go I'm betting there is some major limitation with HG's license. I know they can't just do whatever they want with Macross.

We can guess all day long, but until somebody says something official that is all we can do :(

Bad_Syntax wrote:
I think the there is more info to HG not being able to do a "miniatures" game than we have heard of.

Perhaps Dark Horse still has the robotech "miniatures" trademark or perhaps in that macross lawsuit HG lost in Japan they were prevented from doing any miniatures.

Kevin told me, to my face, that they were *NOT* allowed to refer to the game as a miniatures game or the models as miniatures because HG said so. It could have been some issue with the PB license I guess, but since HG asked PB to take the license back a few years ago when PB let it go I'm betting there is some major limitation with HG's license. I know they can't just do whatever they want with Macross.

We can guess all day long, but until somebody says something official that is all we can do :(

From what I understand that is correct. Calling it a minis game opens them up to all kinds of liability. Since PB has the RPG license the entire game was designed around the idea of using it as an expansion of the RPG, even though most people will not even consider that an option. Having the rules based off the RPG, damage system, unit stats, etc. is to ensure that there is a strong link between the RPG and RRT.


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I'm kinda surprised that this appears to be a surprise to you all since this was something spoke of many times at the start of the KS and when the beta rules were released.