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Wow, and warboss ignored ME.... hahahahahahah

If hypocrisy was money, with what we have in here we could BUILD the SDF-1!

Forar, just leave Britney... I mean Kevin S. alone! Just because you post on the internet doesn't mean that you instantly know how to post on the internet about a $1.4 million dollar project. Jeez, everyone knows that common rules regarding two way communication and Will Wheaton's Law just get thrown out the window! There are secrets and stuff that apply. Duh! I just wish that FFG understood this as well but they can't. They're just a simple company raking in tons of money with top 5 games in much bigger IPs licensed from companies with an onerous reputation. They know nothing of the toils of folks at Palladium and those they deem to share their secrets of not doing common sense stuff with. It is clearly better to create a game that will be enjoyed for decades by the few minds gifted with the intelligence to understand their labrynthian rules than lower themselves down to the masses for the sake of being fun and a top seller. Shame on you, Forar, for suggesting otherwise!

:-(

My betters are speaking, and lo, I spoke out of turn. I shall know my place, and will remember it in the future.

Speculating about what might be has no place in discussion of a quarter century old anime about giants from space and transformable fighter jets. My flight of fancy got the best of me, and led me down a dark path.

I was lost, and you have found me. Truly, I was astray, and now that time has ended.

I have seen the light. The beautiful, glorious light.

Also it's good to know that the only way to ever present critique is to do it myself. brb, asking the boss for a million dollars and any connections we have in China. I'm not sure my budget covers it, but it's worth asking.

 Forar wrote:
My Flight of Fancy Got the best of me, and led me down a dark path.

FFG. You're doing it again. Stop bringing them into this! The subconscious mind is a wonderful thing.

"What is Passive-Aggressive Alex?"

 warboss wrote:
FFG. You're doing it again. Stop bringing them into this! The subconscious mind is a wonderful thing.

I never said subtlety was my strong suit. >.>

Though I think my body of work speaks for itself. :-D

 Mike1975 wrote:
Well I can also postulate that the SDF-1 will appear tomorrow. It would have the same entrancing effect of your wistful FFG approach.

Don't be ridiculous, Mike. Everyone knows the Zor's ship crash landed years ago just like the cartoon said and caused the Bali Tsunami. The government has just been secretly hiding that fact and building 40ft tall veritechs in Argentina to combat the future alien threat. Some footage in spanish was leaked earlier this year but was taken down by a shadowy organization. I also have heard a rumor that the full scale mecha they're building have a smaller parts count than the Palladium ones and less seams.

Oh, they started another RRT forum since RobotechGameCenter.com died. We are looking at converting some Modern stuff over so that people can use their other 6mm stuff in RTT.

If interested
http://robotechrpgtactics.boards.net/thread/8/conventional-units?page=1&scrollTo=24

Edited by Manchu

As for FFG, they were contacted at the start of the project (as well as several other large companies) but did not show interest for the RRT project. They had too much on their plate.

WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote:
As for FFG, they were contacted at the start of the project (as well as several other large companies) but did not show interest for the RRT project. They had too much on their plate.

Wait, you mean the thing that two people just spent pages making fun of totally could have happened?!

bwahahahahahahahaha.

Whew.

That's awesome.

So, gents, the line to apologize forms to the left. No pushing or shoving, please.

*sigh*

To dream of what could have been.

I wonder what FFG would have done with it. Guess this means Forar is vindicated.

 Forar wrote:

WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote:
As for FFG, they were contacted at the start of the project (as well as several other large companies) but did not show interest for the RRT project. They had too much on their plate.

Wait, you mean the thing that two people just spent pages making fun of totally could have happened?!

bwahahahahahahahaha.

Whew.

That's awesome.

So, gents, the line to apologize forms to the left. No pushing or shoving, please.

*sigh*

To dream of what could have been.

Oh I'll apologize for thinking that it could not happen legally but not for thinking that nobody would want to touch it due to legal concerns and the risk/return ratio being almost 1. PB having the License for the RPG and making the game rules and stats directly from the RPG would greatly mitigate that risk and improve the ratio significantly.

WRRD just said they specifically had too much on their plate and weren't interested. How you get 'my point about the legal concerns' stands from that post takes some truly impressive mental gymnastics.

Yeah, I'm sure FFG's team was super concerned about dealing with HG and the legal clusterfeth that it must be. Totally. Dealing with Lucasarts must be just a dream.

Note: I'm sure Lucasarts is staffed by awesome people, but between them and Disney do you seriously not think they have to watch their step and act with great caution too?

Damn man, HG have an itchy legal trigger finger and a tenuous grasp on a pile of things. It's not bloody Keyser Söze at the helm.

Hell, by that metric, Prodos working with Fox must require daily human sacrifices or something but here they are.

Uploaded pics of my current model progress:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xqxop7hyphpz2bd/AADbXIrG7Je1DoJWTRuKkhMca?dl=0

Description:
1-250Scale: This is a comparison of the 1/250 scale macross valkyries from the set a couple years back that are now WAY too expensive online.

30mmHexBase: This is a 30mm hex base, beats the circle if you ask me. I like the transparent ones, but you could just paint it or get a colored version.

ForTheEmperor1: A lowly space marine, looking a bit outgunned.

Frankenstein: Well that went together pretty darned well.

RegultFlyers: I couldn't get these suckers to stay on the base with blue tack, and one of them I screwed up the pose. I think the woosh thing they come with is FAR too tall.

Regults: You figure it out.

UEDF1: My UEDF stuff, notice the REF defender hiding in there? The valk feet don't look bad at all with a good pose.

VF-2SS: Macross II VF-2SS space fighters in a scale shot. A bit large, but still cool!

WorkArea2: All the stuff, minus the blue tack, that I used in the assembly (and a few drops of gorilla superglue)

Zentraedi: Overhead shot of all zentraedi in game (Miriya was a gencon extra) all put together, and what other stuff I had done)

Some notes:
I got kind of happy finishing them, which is a good sign.... I think once I get used to them putting them together won't be so bad, just REALLY outta practice.

REALLY not happy with the swoosh mounts. The regult ones are *way* too tall IMO. I think I'll glue magnets to the bottom and use a magnetic flight stand, makes for easier storage too.

I put the antenna on the glaug in the wrong spot, I know, sorry. It is also broke. I also didn't glue the smallest piece on the scout, as it broke with the glaug antenna when I was trying to get it off the sprue.

Next will be the other valkyrie fighters, then the valkyrie guardians, then battloids, and last I'll do the 2 tomahawks (as they are my favorite!)

 Forar wrote:
WRRD just said they specifically had too much on their plate and weren't interested. How you get 'my point about the legal concerns' stands from that post takes some truly impressive mental gymnastics.

Yeah, I'm sure FFG's team was super concerned about dealing with HG and the legal clusterfeth that it must be. Totally. Dealing with Lucasarts must be just a dream.

Note: I'm sure Lucasarts is staffed by awesome people, but between them and Disney do you seriously not think they have to watch their step and act with great caution too?

Damn man, HG have an itchy legal trigger finger and a tenuous grasp on a pile of things. It's not bloody Keyser Söze at the helm.

Hell, by that metric, Prodos working with Fox must require daily human sacrifices or something but here they are.

Um.. have you never read between the lines or seen professionalism. If someone brings me something I would not touch with a 10 foot pole that does not mean that I immediately tell them so. By saying they have too much, which could be true, is a simple way of saying no thanks or hell no.

Lucas Arts is a very different IP with a lot less problems in it's past with toys and miniatures and probably has a cleaner bill of health with regards to licensing. Plus you cannot compare the popularity of Star Wars with Robotech. That's like comparing Transformers to the Go-bots.

So you can think as you wish but the fact does remain....most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

In the end I stick with my statement......most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

It's cool, apology accepted, and you're welcome. :-D

 Mike1975 wrote:
Um.. have you never read between the lines or seen professionalism. If someone brings me something I would not touch with a 10 foot pole that does not mean that I immediately tell them so. By saying they have too much, which could be true, is a simple way of saying no thanks or hell no.

Lucas Arts is a very different IP with a lot less problems in it's past with toys and miniatures and probably has a cleaner bill of health with regards to licensing. Plus you cannot compare the popularity of Star Wars with Robotech. That's like comparing Transformers to the Go-bots.

So you can think as you wish but the fact does remain....most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

In the end I stick with my statement......most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

Honestly, if FFG got approached and they decided not to do anything with Robotech, I bet it has more to do with efficient use of their resources than with anything else (risk? pfft. They're working with GW and Lucasarts. Any of those's legal departments would eat HG's raw). After all, anyone working in Robotech, any production line devoted to it, any resources poured into it, would mean that many people, production lines and resources diverted from other, more profitable endeavours. Like anything Star Wars at all, ever. Seriously, it wasn't even a contest.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Um.. have you never read between the lines or seen professionalism. If someone brings me something I would not touch with a 10 foot pole that does not mean that I immediately tell them so. By saying they have too much, which could be true, is a simple way of saying no thanks or hell no.

Lucas Arts is a very different IP with a lot less problems in it's past with toys and miniatures and probably has a cleaner bill of health with regards to licensing. Plus you cannot compare the popularity of Star Wars with Robotech. That's like comparing Transformers to the Go-bots.

So you can think as you wish but the fact does remain....most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

In the end I stick with my statement......most prudent companies would not have messed with Robotech even IF they wanted to, the risk is too high.

Honestly, if FFG got approached and they decided not to do anything with Robotech, I bet it has more to do with efficient use of their resources than with anything else (risk? pfft. They're working with GW and Lucasarts. Any of those's legal departments would eat HG's raw). After all, anyone working in Robotech, any production line devoted to it, any resources poured into it, would mean that many people, production lines and resources diverted from other, more profitable endeavours. Like anything Star Wars at all, ever. Seriously, it wasn't even a contest.

Admittedly FFG and Lucas Arts are a giant but there has never been anywhere near the problems of lawsuits as with Robotech. If it was my $ I'd do so really hard digging and thinking before investing in it.

Yeah, Albertorius, between HG and Disney, I know which one I'd be more afraid of a C&D from.

Hint, one of them has nearly limitless money. The other does not.

Edit: gotta say, I do love how HG is basically the boogeyman at this point.

"No", he said in a hushed whisper "we.... we don't even look at that IP. To do so is to court death itself."

And then he crossed himself and fled the room.

In all honesty I'd rather be on dakka than in Mike's facebook gang of miscreants.

At least here there is some form of moderation going on.


Also this statement from BS is entirely false, at least in my neck of the woods were BT has died off.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Admittedly FFG and Lucas Arts are a giant but there has never been anywhere near the problems of lawsuits as with Robotech. If it was my $ I'd do so really hard digging and thinking before investing in it.

AFAIK, both Disney and GW's legal divisions are constantly monitoring... well, basically everything ins search of possible basis for lawsuits, but even if it wasn't so, I don't think this is a case of fear of legal repercussions (seriously, HG's success on defending Robotech's IP in the US has less to do with any capability of theirs and more to do with the japanese basically not giving a gak).

It is way simpler than that: expected ROI. Simply put, when compared with the licenses FFG already has, diverting resources to anything Robotech (and paying llicense fees) instead of just doing what they are doing with SW, Warhammer, 40k, et all, would be basically throwing good money after bad. They would be losing money there (from an accountant perspective, that is: their investments would return less benefit, so that's lost money).

I'm sure there are ebbs and flows throughout the world on what gets played. There are a dozen people that get together every couple weekends here in Dallas at just 1 store and play Battletech. There are at least 2 other groups I know of nearby with 6+ that also play all the time. None of them play alpha strike (and I've tried to get them to). Sometimes 40K players are in the game store, other times X-Wing (so I've heard). However, most of those Battletech folks are pretty die-hard and have been playing for many years, if not decades.

And if there is a single other rule set out there as complete as Battletech, please enlighten me. I have 7 linear feet of just the books for that game system. I can fight a battle with a soldier, up to a million man army, I can do battles in space, underwater, OR a vacuum, I have rules for building *everything*.

The only other game I know of that has ever even come close to that, was the Renegade Legion games with Prefect/Legionnaire/Leviathan/Centurion/Interceptor.

So please, somebody, tell me a system that is more complete than battletech is.

Bad_Syntax wrote:
I'm sure there are ebbs and flows throughout the world on what gets played. There are a dozen people that get together every couple weekends here in Dallas at just 1 store and play Battletech. There are at least 2 other groups I know of nearby with 6+ that also play all the time. None of them play alpha strike (and I've tried to get them to). Sometimes 40K players are in the game store, other times X-Wing (so I've heard). However, most of those Battletech folks are pretty die-hard and have been playing for many years, if not decades.

And if there is a single other rule set out there as complete as Battletech, please enlighten me. I have 7 linear feet of just the books for that game system. I can fight a battle with a soldier, up to a million man army, I can do battles in space, underwater, OR a vacuum, I have rules for building *everything*.

The only other game I know of that has ever even come close to that, was the Renegade Legion games with Prefect/Legionnaire/Leviathan/Centurion/Interceptor.

So please, somebody, tell me a system that is more complete than battletech is.

That's perfect....and also the problem at time....there are so many rules to do so many things that Battletech games can take forever to play. Alpha Strike is a move in the right direction.

So the current consensus is that now it's not Palladiums fault as they had to polish a turd, the job nobody wanted?

Joyboozer wrote:
So the current consensus is that now it's not Palladiums fault as they had to polish a turd, the job nobody wanted?

Nope. For FFG, working in Robotech would be losing money. For Palladium, or any other company of the size, it would be their flag game. Completely different viewpoints.

So, they completely fumbled the release and development of their flag game?
I tried to stay away from this one for months as it began to feel like the anger was unreasonable but to return and find it's still going on?
Did they actually ignore all play test feedback from Mike until after printing the rule book?

So, why is it that the licensor (HG) could not grant the licensee (PB) a new license or an addendum to their current license granting them the ability to make a miniatures game, exactly?

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:
So, why is it that the licensor (HG) could not grant the licensee (PB) a new license or an addendum to their current license granting them the ability to make a miniatures game, exactly?

~Eric

Because Harmony Gold doesn't have exclusive rights to Macross stuff. In fact, they only have rights here in the US I think. In Japan they lost some suite and do not have rights. I remember reading some big discussion on that whole lawsuit thing, and its crazy complicated. More than any of us non-lawyer non-in-the-know types could try to pretend we understand.

That is just a guess.

Thing is, none of us know, all of us can assume we know about things until we are blue in the face, and all we are doing is wasting our time. This way madness lies, as there is nothing to be gained by this kind of discussion.


On another note, I took my Robotech stuff to show off at my local battletech club. Wasn't as much excitement as I hoped, but they were open to playing a demo. I did plop that Glaug on the board and quickly saw that it wasn't actually all that big compared to the recent IWM mecha miniatures. In fact, there are some that are still yet bigger. The Regults and UEDF stuff will all work fine in battletech games too, or RRT could be converted to Alpha Strike if you didn't like RRT rules.

I still thin the Heavy Gear/Silhouette 2nd Edition rules were far better suited to anime stuff though, and have always wished DP9 pursued the Robotech license :( (instead they went all stupid with blitz, now their IP is crap IMO).

Bad_Syntax wrote:

Because Harmony Gold doesn't have exclusive rights to Macross stuff. In fact, they only have rights here in the US I think. In Japan they lost some suite and do not have rights. I remember reading some big discussion on that whole lawsuit thing, and its crazy complicated. More than any of us non-lawyer non-in-the-know types could try to pretend we understand.

If HG has the ability to license an RPG, then surely they have the ability to license a miniatures game, right? PB is still a US company, so I don't see what difference US vs ROW rights would have.

Not a lawyer, and I don't have all the facts. I do suspect that it has more to do with PB's practices and non-adaptive ways than with HG's ability to create/add a miniatures game license.

~Eric