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 Forar wrote:
Yeah, if there were such a game, they'd need to rework the entire scope downwards. They could skip the 'hidden movement dials' aspect to save time, but at the very least they'd want to cut the numbers in half, and the point about cost could easily make bringing them down to 1/3 or 1/4. With the heightened cost of figures they'd want to keep it accessible.

Something that I fear RRT may risk pricing itself out of, even with CSI's usual discount applied, but that remains to be seen.

Yeah, skipping the hidden movement would save alot of time and you, instead of putting down the movement dial, just alternate between models moving and declaring actions ignoring the pilot skill (which would still be used for firing so not completely useless). That would basically skip a lengthy intermediate step.

As for the price, I don't think RRT is expensive even at full retail. Valkyries by definition are expensive on a usable per model basis for plastics but there isn't anything palladium could do about that... if you require three models for one usable in game model, there isn't any way around that beyond using the short cuts I mentioned a few posts up. Then again... I'm didn't get into this for massive battles and was instead hooked by the promise of good skirmish rules that I could use with my battlecry pledge. Too bad that palladium decided to break that promise as well and replace the "official" skirmish rules with a paragraph of loosey goosey trash.

@ Rigeld2

KS Started April 18th
April 24th Miniatures Size chart comes out in update
April 26th They gave pics on the sizes of squadrons by request of the pledgers.
April 30th Rules Preview Released --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf
That had enough detail that if you knew the RPG at all you would know it had roots to the RPG.
May 7th Update # 49
UEDF Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/uedf-force-org.html
Zen Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/zentraedi-force-org.html
@ Around $550,000
May 9th Update 53 Malcontent Force Orgs --> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts?page=21

@Stanman
Totally agree, Tom's video likely did more harm than good. I kept texting and messaging them to get things rolling along. That is more a problem with the planning and personality than the game itself but regardless it wound up reflecting on the game. Good thing there are more videos that were made.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vb3ZLanBTbVRDVDg&usp=sharing

@Albertorious
Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast paced strategy battle game that expands on the popular Palladium role playing game.

I don't see how is that in any way misleading people to think they are getting a complete and separate minis game in no way related to the RPG. That In fact says what I have been saying for a while. The game from day 1 was set up as a take off of the RPG. The rules are miniatures rules but the bones are based off of the RPG. This supports that completely.

Take command of the brave men and women of the United Earth Defense Force to valiantly defend Earth from annihilation. Or, command the alien armies of the Zentraedi Armada to recover an alien artifact of immense power and enslave humankind. Collect your forces from an expanding range of world class game pieces. Relive the massive battles on your tabletop at home to enhance your Robotech® RPG adventures or as a stand-alone game.

This just reinforces it. Regardless if it is a new system or a minis game that is based off the RPG....what does it matter at the end of the day? The important factors are the minis rules and how they play and the minis. Only if you plan on using the RPG characters does any of the rest matter honestly.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Yeah, if there were such a game, they'd need to rework the entire scope downwards. They could skip the 'hidden movement dials' aspect to save time, but at the very least they'd want to cut the numbers in half, and the point about cost could easily make bringing them down to 1/3 or 1/4. With the heightened cost of figures they'd want to keep it accessible.

Something that I fear RRT may risk pricing itself out of, even with CSI's usual discount applied, but that remains to be seen.

Yeah, skipping the hidden movement would save alot of time and you, instead of putting down the movement dial, just alternate between models moving and declaring actions ignoring the pilot skill (which would still be used for firing so not completely useless). That would basically skip a lengthy intermediate step.

As for the price, I don't think RRT is expensive even at full retail. Valkyries by definition are expensive on a usable per model basis for plastics but there isn't anything palladium could do about that... if you require three models for one usable in game model, there isn't any way around that beyond using the short cuts I mentioned a few posts up. Then again... I'm didn't get into this for massive battles and was instead hooked by the promise of good skirmish rules that I could use with my battlecry pledge. Too bad that palladium decided to break that promise as well and replace the "official" skirmish rules with a paragraph of loosey goosey trash.

How would that compare to the Attack Wing rules? I hear those are different.

As Mekton and the rest come out I hope myself and others will have the opportunity to compare the rules and see what works. I have not used Alpha Strike yet because since I've a long time Battltetech player I can't see those rules meshing well with the Anime feel of Robotech. Heavy Gear....I need to read the rules on Blitz and Silhouette to compare them.

 Mike1975 wrote:

How would that compare to the Attack Wing rules? I hear those are different.

As Mekton and the rest come out I hope myself and others will have the opportunity to compare the rules and see what works. I have not used Alpha Strike yet because since I've a long time Battltetech player I can't see those rules meshing well with the Anime feel of Robotech. Heavy Gear....I need to read the rules on Blitz and Silhouette to compare them.

My experience with Attack Wing is limited to watching a few youtube videos but the mechanics are very similar to x-wing (albeit it with different names/terms for things). The main mechanics differences I've noticed were expanded movement options like more speed 5 and 6 maneuvers as well as "reverse" speeds which aren't possible at all in x-wing given the WW2 dogfighting feel of star wars fighter combat. I'm actually considering picking up a core set just for the movement counters and to check out the dials and I feel that humanoid mecha should have a "reverse" speed.

As for Heavy Gear, the blitz rules are useless if you want to use more than 8-12 figs per side unless you want to spend long amounts of time trying to play a game. HG, like X-wing, just isn't cut out for mass battles. They have new rules that are supposed to be lighter and quicker but my experience with them was at skirmish scale model counts and was over a year ago so I can't comment with any certainty on the beta rules they're advertising on their site currently.

 warboss wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

How would that compare to the Attack Wing rules? I hear those are different.

As Mekton and the rest come out I hope myself and others will have the opportunity to compare the rules and see what works. I have not used Alpha Strike yet because since I've a long time Battltetech player I can't see those rules meshing well with the Anime feel of Robotech. Heavy Gear....I need to read the rules on Blitz and Silhouette to compare them.

My experience with Attack Wing is limited to watching a few youtube videos but the mechanics are very similar to x-wing (albeit it with different names/terms for things). The main mechanics differences I've noticed were expanded movement options like more speed 5 and 6 maneuvers as well as "reverse" speeds which aren't possible at all in x-wing given the WW2 dogfighting feel of star wars fighter combat. I'm actually considering picking up a core set just for the movement counters and to check out the dials and I feel that humanoid mecha should have a "reverse" speed.

As for Heavy Gear, the rules are useless if you want to use more than 8-12 figs per side unless you want to spend long amounts of time trying to play a game. HG, like X-wing, just isn't cut out for mass battles. They have new rules that are supposed to be lighter and quicker but my experience with them was at skirmish scale model counts and was over a year ago so I can't comment with any certainty on the beta rules they're advertising on their site currently.

Blitz is supposed to be a slimmed down and faster version. I need to read through the rules. They have them for free download.

Mekton is the other possibility then. The ablative armor and super short weapon ranges of weapons concern me though. For $50 it was worth it to get the rules and check.

Alpha Strike is the last option. I love BT but it's not made for Anime style. The Clans did bring it much closer though whether you liked them or not.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
CAV on the other hand looks like it might be almost fast enough to adapt to high minis counts

 Mike1975 wrote:

Blitz is supposed to be a slimmed down and faster version. I need to read through the rules. They have them for free download.

It is slimmed down and faster... compared to CBT and the original HG RPG rules that were used for the minis game as well. Instead of 3-4 minis per side, you get up to 8-12 before the game bogs down. It just isn't enough to turn it into a full minis game and still has way too many vestigial remnants left over from the RPG roots to be a good one as written despite half baked attempts to tweak it at the customers' cost every 2 years.

The new rules largely shed that unnecessary stuff (except for the very unbalanced sublists that are heavily RPG inspired and just repeat the EXACT problems that plagued HG balance for the past decade) so you might want to at least give them the once over.

 warboss wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

Blitz is supposed to be a slimmed down and faster version. I need to read through the rules. They have them for free download.

It is slimmed down and faster... compared to CBT and the original HG RPG rules that were used for the minis game as well. Instead of 3-4 minis per side, you get up to 8-12 before the game bogs down. It just isn't enough to turn it into a full minis game and still has way too many vestigial remnants left over from the RPG roots to be a good one as written despite half baked attempts to tweak it at the customers' cost every 2 years.

The new rules largely shed that unnecessary stuff (except for the very unbalanced sublists that are heavily RPG inspired and just repeat the EXACT problems that plagued HG balance for the past decade) so you might want to at least give them the once over.

I'll look, I'm not looking for a skirmish scale game but if I wind up helping make some version for the Next Gen stuff I'll mess with Skirmish rules a lot more for research.

 Mike1975 wrote:
@ Rigeld2

KS Started April 18th
1 April 24th Miniatures Size chart comes out in update
2 April 26th They gave pics on the sizes of squadrons by request of the pledgers.
3 April 30th Rules Preview Released --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf
That had enough detail that if you knew the RPG at all you would know it had roots to the RPG.
4 May 7th Update # 49
UEDF Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/uedf-force-org.html
Zen Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/zentraedi-force-org.html
@ Around $550,000
5 May 9th Update 53 Malcontent Force Orgs --> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts?page=21

1 Mini size is the beta rules?
2 Size of the squadrons is the beta rules?
3 I don't remember those rules, but I didn't pledge until later. Sure, it has *roots* in the RPG, but that's a different thing than saying the "Minis game is a Morph of the RPG game".
4 ZOMG ORG CHARTS. Have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Try again?
5 Yay more force orgs!

So the only evidence you have to support your statement that, and I'll quote it so I'm not accused of putting words in your mouth,

They did show the beta rules during the KS. So honestly it should not be a surprise to anyone that the Minis game is a Morph of the RPG game. Nobody seemed to blink twice when the beta rules were released. If they had looked at those and seen the RPG rules they would have realized all the rest.

That's not the "beta rules". That's a quick start, and it says on every page "Rules still in development and subject to change." Pardon me if I don't take those at face value.
Additionally, the rules presented in that quick start aren't that bad. Sure, there's a couple things I have issues with (specifically the number of HtH attacks) but it's not horrible overall.

So how about you (finally) get off your high horse and understand that what was presented is not what is being sold. This isn't the miniatures wargame with an RPG tie in (what it should have been). It's a bunch of crap.

Quick run through of the last few pages and still so many people who hate the game.

I am now addressing these disillusioned backers who are willing to sell for a price commensurate with what they think of the quality of the rules and miniatures.

I'm now offering $50 for a Battle Cry pledge. Please PM me.

I match your ridiculous price with my own; I will sell you my rule book for $50. You will be very pleased to get such a piece of visual and game art for such a low price. Please PM me.

 warboss wrote:
I match your ridiculous price with my own; I will sell you my rule book for $50. You will be very pleased to get such a piece of visual and game art for such a low price. Please PM me.

You may be surprised to know that just because you're not happy with something doesn't automatically make you a sucker nor does it instantly wipe out the knowledge of its potential value to someone else whose opinion may differ. Knowing is half the battle!

Considering the Kickstarter crash of Sedition Wars, getting out now for $50 may be more profitable than waiting and getting out for $25 or less.

I love how this is the biggest epeen thread on Dakka.

 judgedoug wrote:
I love how this is the biggest epeen thread on Dakka.

Says the person coming in and waving it..

 judgedoug wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I match your ridiculous price with my own; I will sell you my rule book for $50. You will be very pleased to get such a piece of visual and game art for such a low price. Please PM me.

You may be surprised to know that just because you're not happy with something doesn't automatically make you a sucker nor does it instantly wipe out the knowledge of its potential value to someone else whose opinion may differ. Knowing is half the battle!

Considering the Kickstarter crash of Sedition Wars, getting out now for $50 may be more profitable than waiting and getting out for $25 or less.

I love how this is the biggest epeen thread on Dakka.

And you apparently just unzipped? You realize that complaining about complaining is still complaining, right? In any case, your Sedition Wars horror story is a bit... how can I put this.. self serving and flawed. The prices you're talking about were for the boxed game only from clearance retailers and not the "magic" pledge with all the extras which is what your ridiculous offer was for. If you feel like offering $50 for the first contact base box only, you may have some validity to using that as the basis for your offer as that would be the equivalent (offer and scare tactic) and not just a stunt to generate drama.

Quality
In manufacturing, a measure of excellence or a state of being free from defects, deficiencies and significant variations. It is brought about by strict and consistent commitment to certain standards that achieve uniformity of a product in order to satisfy specific customer or user requirements.

Note: specific customer or user requirements vary.

Mods, as has been pointed out, obviously this isn't a miniatures game, can it be moved to the correct section of the forums?
Is there any part of this project that wasn't our fault for not researching first?

Joyboozer wrote:
Mods, as has been pointed out, obviously this isn't a miniatures game, can it be moved to the correct section of the forums?
Is there any part of this project that wasn't our fault for not researching first?

Ahahahahahah!

Yeah, it's a tabletop game with miniatures.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck who cares what the lawyers call it?

But the rulebook even enourages picking up your minis and making woooooosh jet fighter noises as you move the pieces. It has to be an RPG!

As a sidenote Games Workshop has been trying to make that the narrative standard for 40k as far back as 6th edition!

So this comes out next month.



Coincidence?

I THINK SO!

For those wondering, it's 24CM long in cruiser mode and the arms do come off as the carriers.

The armd platforms on the sdf-1 make this squarely a macross DYRL product and thus better than RRT minis. Also it lacks seams that must be filled with gallons of liquid green stuff.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Mods, as has been pointed out, obviously this isn't a miniatures game, can it be moved to the correct section of the forums?
Is there any part of this project that wasn't our fault for not researching first?

Ahahahahahah!

Yeah, it's a tabletop game with miniatures.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck who cares what the lawyers call it?

Nope, it's obviously an RPG extension - anyone who's read the beta rules could understand that jeeze. Do your research.
Plus, force orgs.

Oh man, this is going to be like when the SoB thread got moved. It still weirds me out to this day.

Okay, fine, time to tuck this in the Boardgame subforum. At least our reign of terror in MMG will come to an end.

 Forar wrote:
At least our reign of terror in MMG will come to an end.

Let a whole new reign of terror begin!

rigeld2 wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
@ Rigeld2

KS Started April 18th
1 April 24th Miniatures Size chart comes out in update
2 April 26th They gave pics on the sizes of squadrons by request of the pledgers.
3 April 30th Rules Preview Released --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf
That had enough detail that if you knew the RPG at all you would know it had roots to the RPG.
4 May 7th Update # 49
UEDF Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/uedf-force-org.html
Zen Org Chart Shared --> http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtsquadrons/zentraedi-force-org.html
@ Around $550,000
5 May 9th Update 53 Malcontent Force Orgs --> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts?page=21

1 Mini size is the beta rules?
2 Size of the squadrons is the beta rules?
3 I don't remember those rules, but I didn't pledge until later. Sure, it has *roots* in the RPG, but that's a different thing than saying the "Minis game is a Morph of the RPG game".
4 ZOMG ORG CHARTS. Have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Try again?
5 Yay more force orgs!

So the only evidence you have to support your statement that, and I'll quote it so I'm not accused of putting words in your mouth,

They did show the beta rules during the KS. So honestly it should not be a surprise to anyone that the Minis game is a Morph of the RPG game. Nobody seemed to blink twice when the beta rules were released. If they had looked at those and seen the RPG rules they would have realized all the rest.

That's not the "beta rules". That's a quick start, and it says on every page "Rules still in development and subject to change." Pardon me if I don't take those at face value.
Additionally, the rules presented in that quick start aren't that bad. Sure, there's a couple things I have issues with (specifically the number of HtH attacks) but it's not horrible overall.

So how about you (finally) get off your high horse and understand that what was presented is not what is being sold. This isn't the miniatures wargame with an RPG tie in (what it should have been). It's a bunch of crap.

OhI fully admit that with these
http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf
not all people have the ability to make the connection even though the name of the game states it.

Plus it also depends on what you consider Morphing the rules. Many would agree with that statement others not so much since that is a relative term. So if you want o read the RPG and then the rules and then everything else we have and be surprised that's all up to you.

 Platuan4th wrote:
So this comes out next month.



Coincidence?

I THINK SO!

For those wondering, it's 24CM long in cruiser mode and the arms do come off as the carriers.

Where do I get one? Are they making zentradi stuff?

Joyboozer wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
So this comes out next month.



Coincidence?

I THINK SO!

For those wondering, it's 24CM long in cruiser mode and the arms do come off as the carriers.

Where do I get one? Are they making zentradi stuff?

Can't find the SDF-1, but I did find this:

http://www.hlj.com/product/MTBMB-33/Sci

 judgedoug wrote:
Quick run through of the last few pages and still so many people who hate the game.

I am now addressing these disillusioned backers who are willing to sell for a price commensurate with what they think of the quality of the rules and miniatures.

I'm now offering $50 for a Battle Cry pledge. Please PM me.

Counter offer:

$300


You'd be getting a deal...and I'm sure the stuff will only continue to go up in value, so in three years when I finally get it straight from PB to ship to you, you're investment will have doubled...

 warboss wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


Considering the Kickstarter crash of Sedition Wars, getting out now for $50 may be more profitable than waiting and getting out for $25 or less.

I love how this is the biggest epeen thread on Dakka.

And you apparently just unzipped? You realize that complaining about complaining is still complaining, right? In any case, your Sedition Wars horror story is a bit... how can I put this.. self serving and flawed. The prices you're talking about were for the boxed game only from clearance retailers and not the "magic" pledge with all the extras which is what your ridiculous offer was for. If you feel like offering $50 for the first contact base box only, you may have some validity to using that as the basis for your offer as that would be the equivalent (offer and scare tactic) and not just a stunt to generate drama.

I'm on the correct 4chan subforum here, right? Ah, judging by the quality of content, yes it is.

Well, assuming the last hundred plus pages of this thread is not actually just internet tough guy hyperbole - again, after months and months and hundreds and hundreds of posts of declarations of RRT being the worst game ever, with terrible rules, by a terrible company, with terrible miniatures, with terrible seams, and terrible paint jobs and terrible dice and terrible etc - in fact, to quote many of you, a game so bad that it'll be binned immediately - I offer $50! Fifty earth dollars for quite possibly the worst thing ever made my man. You are correct that it's self-serving! That's the way this works. The value of RRT has plummeted to being bin-worthy, suitable only to be compacted and used as ammunition to throw at Kevin Siembieda's head. Why not attempt to recover your investment?

 judgedoug wrote:
I offer $50! Fifty earth dollars for quite possibly the worst thing ever made my man. You are correct that it's self-serving! That's the way this works. The value of RRT has plummeted to being bin-worthy, suitable only to be compacted and used as ammunition to throw at Kevin Siembieda's head. Why not attempt to recover your investment?

Because it is possible I can get a better deal, recovering 50 bucks isn't all that much, and I can afford losing those 50, so I'll take my chances. Thank you for the offer, though. Simply put, I'm not that desperate, and I made the pledge out of disposable money.

But don't worry, if the value plummets down to that, you'll still be able to buy all the stuff for those 50 bucks. Win-win, right?

We'll drop this particular tangent now thank you folks.

Unrelated to the offer made, it will be interesting to see how the secondary market evolves for this. eBay already has a seller moving things at reasonable prices via pre-order (though apparently the lengthy delays have caused some issues with that), local markets, bartertown, and even the swap shop here.

The idea of building dozens or even hundreds of models with these pieces counts is rather daunting/frustrating, but if someone only wanted a few "unseen" to add to their shelves/collection (even if not 100% in scale), or a few VT's and pods for a little diorama in the den, it might be one of the most available methods of getting a handful. Suddenly that demand drives the prices a bit, depending on how the supply holds up. (or floods the market, as may be the case)

I imagine the $200 core box we just saw will be an outlier, as is often the case when the demand exists (even in small amounts) and the supply is essentially zero, but as boxes arrive, we'll see how that plays out. For all the doom and gloom about the game and reasonable objections to choices about the Models (literal models), if I were just assembling a pair of VTs, I doubt it'd bother me quite as much.

Well, aside from that Guardian tail. Ugh.

Which kind of ties back into what we've been talking about for a while now; delivery. It's funny/sad how they 'started delivery' weeks ago, and yet seem to have hit a brick wall while waiting for the ability to ship Battle Cry boxes (presumably with Container 2, but I'm not stating that as an absolute).

In a way, I guess they were right that Gencon wouldn't affect backer delivery because of the skeleton staff they left and the way they purposely organized the first container to prioritize gencon sales over backer delivery. I am glad that at least 2% of backers are eligible to receive their products in the same month they declared shipping started... it seems though that most of the rest of us are unsurprisingly in the other 98%. At least we have one received backer that was able to post here.

I suspect stores will sell a fair amount of the booster packs to robotech fans but I'm frankly not sure yet how the reception will be for the mass battle wargame itself (along with its bigger potential sales per person).