Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!

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**warboss**

Forar wrote:
It's easy to say "oh, I play with friends, and none of them are donkey caves", but *not everyone has that benefit*.

That does of course assume that folks who choose to only play with or against painted armies are automatically donkey caves which is NOT the case. A preference involving artistic expression is NOT an indicator of the personality of the person in question no more so than someone who never paints but enjoys playing is a donkey cave. It's a preference and neither is mandatory but it is almost unbelieveable when folks decree unilaterally that something isn't a part of the hobby (like proper modelling and/or painting) despite decades of evidence to the contrary. Let's leave the name calling and labeling of fellow gamers for the KS comments.

**judgedoug**

What is this I don't even

**Talizvar**

WYSIWYG I always looked at as both a modeling challenge and a courtesy to my opponent.

I think the trick is not to place the same standards on others as you do yourself.

I played way back in the day with the cardboard "chits" for war gaming and must admit I find it hard to go back from models: things look too good now to give up.

I tend to find the WAAC players will do the bare minimum (missing arms, unprimed, printed pictures on cardstock) to the models to get the uber-build they want with the least fuss so we all have stereotypes we can think of from personal experience.

I like the X-wing method of cards to keep with your main reference material: it makes it easy to see the options for everyone and makes WYSIWYG less a priority.

The pretty official cards are important, hope they are a standard size to Fantasy Flight sleeves.

Mike: you have shown by your use of card pieces that as long as an "icon" placeholder of roughly the right size is used: all is well. I am sure your imagination fills in the rest of the details quite fine.
It is like how so many people show ways they painted the different variants of X-wing pre-painted models: sometimes you just want it to look like the source material because it is cool...

**wana10**

Or for pete's sake. Got shipping notice earlier in the week and it was supposed to be here today. Check tracking and it says its already been delivered. But I've been home all day and there hasn't been a single person that's come to the door. Check outside and nothing, check with neighbors and nothing, so now after all this delay bs I get to deal with UPS and filling out claim forms.

**Swabby**

Wana10 I am so sorry dude. That is terrible.

**Talizvar**

wana10 wrote:
Or for pete's sake. Got shipping notice earlier in the week and it was supposed to be here today. Check tracking and it says its already been delivered. But I've been home all day and there hasn't been a single person that's come to the door. Check outside and nothing, check with neighbors and nothing, so now after all this delay bs I get to deal with UPS and filling out claim forms.

Or observing your house and stealing the shipment went according to plan?
It is becoming a desperate thing to get a hold of those minis.
Anyone else getting a shipment soon?
Would love to know where abouts... for interest of shipping speeds is all...

(In all seriousness I hope it was not left on the doorstep and scooped-up, that would suck large.)

**Cypher-xv**

It's only getting worse since PB stopped sending out emails. So if showdowns did go out this week no one knows.

**Forar**

warboss wrote:
Forar wrote:
It's easy to say "oh, I play with friends, and none of them are donkey caves", but *not everyone has that benefit*.

That does of course assume that folks who choose to only play with or against painted armies are automatically donkey caves which is NOT the case. A preference involving artistic expression is NOT an indicator of the personality of the person in question no more so than someone who never paints but enjoys playing is a donkey cave. It's a preference and neither is mandatory but it is almost unbelieveable when folks decree unilaterally that something isn't a part of the hobby (like proper modelling and/or painting) despite decades of evidence to the contrary. Let's leave the name calling and labeling of fellow gamers for the KS comments.

Perhaps I was unclear, but you are arguing against a point I did not make, or at least did not intend to make.

The "donkey caves" in this case would be hypothetical people who snootily looked down their nose at less than perfectly WYSIWYG figures and that lacked 20 hours in modelling, basing and painting on every last figure. An extreme that I doubt many people actually adhere to (or anyone here). Even as someone that prefers playing against well built and painted figures, would you tell someone off or refuse to play them in a tournament just because their skill level was closer to the amateur end of the spectrum?

it was a natural rebuttal to Mike's often noted "oh, I play with friends, I don't have to worry about "that guy".

And mostly It was an exaggeration for comedic effect, not an affront to those that appreciate the time and effort some people put into their figures/armies.

Easy there, WB. You should know me better that that by now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – 1,500 shipped this week

As we announced in the last Weekly Update, we worked all weekend to have 1,000 packages ready to ship on Monday. With the help of a half dozen volunteers including NMI/Jeff Ruiz, Chris King, Nathan Hanish, Christopher Ings, Dave Chapman, Mark Dudley and the ENTIRE Palladium staff, we succeeded in shipping approximately 1,000 Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to Kickstarter backers on Monday. Woo hoo! Several hundred more have followed since, and something like 2,400 main games have been shipped so far. We hope you are enjoying them.

My sincere thanks to our volunteers who worked their tails off for us, and to the Palladium staff who worked another weekend without complaint. We could not have done it without you. As those working over the weekend can attest, it takes a 2-4 man team a solid 6-8 hours just to make the darn boxes to ship the product in! We had a nice, smooth assembly line going with work divided between making boxes, packing and shipping. Gotta tell ya, we were all feeling worn out by Sunday night, especially since we have all been working weekends for the last couple of months. Whew.

Shipping delays continue. I don’t know if you’ve seen them yet, but reports of long delays at the Port of Los Angeles and ports all across the US have started to hit the news media. I saw a report on Fox News this past Monday morning about cargo waiting on ships for 6-10 days. Add to that another 6-14 days to get the container placed on a truck or the rails, and then the transit time. It is maddening, and there is no end in sight. This is affecting countless companies, big and small, and likely to affect the availability of all kinds of products for the Christmas season. Arrrrgh. Robotech® RPG Tactics™ may be one of those products! We had originally wanted product to ship to distributors so RRT product could hit store shelves in November by Black Friday, but that is looking very unlikely. More likely early December. Time will tell.

*snip* Volunteers wanted the weekend of the 14th-16th

*snip* Please pick up your gak, that'd be sweet.

*snip* Pre-order stuff, it's totes sweet, and will go in the mail after the KS backer boxes.

Where are we now with Robotech® RPG Tactics™ deliveries?

Container #4 is at Customs in Detroit. They decided to examine it, so we hope to get it by the end of next week. Container #5 has been put on a train and we should get it early the following week. When we get either one, we can ship like crazy again, but especially #5.

Containers #6 and #7 have arrived at port. God only knows when they’ll be sent our way. Container #8 should hit LA next week and Container #9 should be a week behind it.

FYI: In order to speed up our shipping processes and get as many orders out as quickly as we can, we’ve mostly been shipping in groups of like combinations (one or two items, prints only, etc.), with the largest batches of identical orders first. We’re basically done shipping domestic Battle Cry and we’ve started Showdown, to be followed by Reckless and so on. We are shipping domestic/USA rewards first, because they are much faster to process (no Customs documentation to fill out for each package), and then Canada and overseas. We are hoping to have all Wave One Kickstarter rewards to have left the Palladium warehouse by the middle of November and Robotech® RPG Tactics™ products in stores around Thanksgiving in the USA and Canada, but it might be more like early December.

*snip* OMG UPDATE YER ADDRESS!

**megatrons2nd**

I am more WYSIWYG with Battletech than most, as in I must use a mech miniature that is the same chassis as what it is supposed to be, but not necessarily the same model.

I am less WYSIWYG with 40K than many, as in I am not worried about grenades, the CC weapon, and some of the smaller items that I can't hardly see on the model anyway. Not to mention the impossibility of modeling powers, abilities, and a very special version of a standard weapon. How do you model the Parasite's Kiss anyway? A splinter pistol that is "special". What about a Mastercrafted Bolter?

I paint slower than molasses in Winter locked in a stasis field. I just finished paining my Tau army, and I've had that since they actually released army boxes, and I got it 2 days before the official release of their 1st codex. Good thing most people I've played didn't care about paining.

**Swabby**

The turn on this WYSIWYG thing has been taken waaaaay too far down the "People who look down on people who are not like them in the hobby" road, and nowhere near as far down the "Man, that army looks really good after all that work" road as it should have.

**shade1313**

fruitlewps wrote:
Cypher-xv wrote:
Straight from FB.

"From NMI
""We're not going by backer numbers. We're going by for lack of a better phrase what was ordered. we have, have completed all the pure battle cry / no add on only orders today. Next will be possibly show down or something similar. I will try and give it more accurate update later on this evening.""

""I don't want to say anything specific regarding showdown out any shipping proce/timetables. I can safely say that showdown's "should" be going out soon.""

LOLWUT?! So why don't the 2 people I know with "pure battle cry" pledges have shipping notices? BS..

I never got a shipping notice, my Battlecry stuff just showed up the other day, no warning.

Never got a shipping notice for my Tablescapes, either, and those showed up the week before.

**Cergorach**

What! You didn't sculpt Roy Fokker in the pilot seat... Maeve! Where's my rope I'm going to lynch this philistine outside! ;-)

Honestly, I think that few backers of the KS will have WYSWYG, we're going to be swimming in models, if they ever show up that is...

**Red_Starrise**

First, I have long since decided that I won't even be using the Robotech stuff if I ever get it and will either sell it or junk it but I have been playing 40k and other TTWGs for many many years (21).

WYSIWYG is not a bad thing, it's something that helps speed up gameplay. There's nothing elitist or WAAC about preferring to know what it is you're looking at across the table. Frankly, Mike, what you're doing is blurring the lines here for a lot of us. I've never been a WAAC/power gamer and never been accused of such, however, I do insist on reasonable WYSIWYG, or a limited proxy of such. A power gamer/WAAC player would be more interested in running super cheese armies than WYSIWYG.

When it comes to a player running multiple squadrons of aircraft (so to speak) if they aren't all armed identically & it makes a difference to gameplay then yes, I do insist that I be able to identify which is which without having to ask.

That is by no means the same as saying "that space marine Sgt there is holding a plasma pistol & has a powerfist, I don't see a melta-bomb there, he can't use it" or "nope, there's nothing showing me that IG colonel has a refractor field, so he doesn't have one even though it's standard equipment".

**Mike1975**

Red_Starrise wrote:
First, I have long since decided that I won't even be using the Robotech stuff if I ever get it and will either sell it or junk it but I have been playing 40k and other TTWGs for many many years (21).

WYSIWYG is not a bad thing, it's something that helps speed up gameplay. There's nothing elitist or WAAC about preferring to know what it is you're looking at across the table. Frankly, Mike, what you're doing is blurring the lines here for a lot of us. I've never been a WAAC/power gamer and never been accused of such, however, I do insist on reasonable WYSIWYG, or a limited proxy of such. A power gamer/WAAC player would be more interested in running super cheese armies than WYSIWYG.

When it comes to a player running multiple squadrons of aircraft (so to speak) if they aren't all armed identically & it makes a difference to gameplay then yes, I do insist that I be able to identify which is which without having to ask.

That is by no means the same as saying "that space marine Sgt there is holding a plasma pistol & has a powerfist, I don't see a melta-bomb there, he can't use it" or "nope, there's nothing showing me that IG colonel has a refractor field, so he doesn't have one even though it's standard equipment".

You guys can take it however you want, all I've said is that players that force as an absolute in order to play with them WYSIWYG are a detriment. It's nice, yes, but not always achievable. Common sense should take part when it is not. If you have 50 marines on 40 Eldar and the other player wants to round out his army with a squad of marines having a melta gun or something and he points that and whatever other discrepancies out then there should be no problem. I've never said to accept cans in their place or anything. If a player is extreme and refuses to play because every single mini is not WYSIWYG then that player needs some help. Striving for it is fine, refusing to play with others who have less is not. Both my nephews have played 40k since they were 8 and they have gone through changing codexes and stats. They are not going to tear apart their minis and redo them just because GW decided to change the stats for Necrons. They also can't afford to just shelve the other minis and replace them. So leeway is taken into account. If WYSIWYG was 100% then they would quickly loose interest and be upset at gamers, and rightly so. Again, you may not agree, but that is my point and it will not change nor has it changed. I simple said forcing WYSIWYG completely onto others can and often is detrimental to the game in the long term. Again, I've seen many younger players have to put up with BS from others because of 2-3 figures on the table. There is a big difference between forcing something on others and pushing for conformity. Some players can't see or understand and often cross that line no matter how old and experienced they are.

**Red_Starrise**

Mike, if I have 3 50 man blob IG squads and I tell you there are 5 plasma guns, 5 sgts and somewhere there's a commissar but you look and all you see are 51 cadian models armed with lasguns are you necessarily going to remember which ones are which? I'm not saying to be a WYSIWYG Nazi and in games like Malifaux or Infinity where there's typically a low number of models on the board it's not such a biggie. However, when there are a significant number of models out there it's just simply kind of a douche move to expect your opponent to remember which guardsmen with lasguns aren't. As I don't really HAVE the rules to R:RT I can't tell you what to expect in terms of loadout variability within squadrons. I'll say this though, if someone is running 3-4 4 ship flights of valks and they can all have different missiles & lasers then I sure do expect that my opponent either has them clearly armed with what I can see differently or has painted them accordingly somehow. I don't feel it's fair that they should have to guess which of my guardsmen aren't riflemen thus I don't feel it's fair I should have to guess which Valkyries have which missiles/lasers.

Again, though, you're taking it to the extreme here. You're still making abrasive attacks on people who insist on WYSIWYG. Keep in mind that not everyone who wants to be able to tell what their opponent is fielding at a glance is the type of person who will berate them over it. However, by that same token, not everyone who doesn't believe in WYSIWYG is honest about what is what every time either. The intent behind WYSIWYG is full transparency to both players.

I see nothing wrong with having a craft marked with say flames or something that clearly distinguishes it from the rest having drop tanks modeled for fun & you tell me that specific plane has long range missiles. Cool. I can tell that it has them because it doesn't blend into the rest of the craft. I am even ok with you saying something like "this entire squadron here has LRMs but I didn't put the missiles on because they are too fiddly". Cool. I can see that all of those craft have LRMs, no biggie.

It's when we get into things like (and again, this is but an example and may not be valid on its face because I don't have the rules for squadron composition) "this Valkyrie has medium missiles, this one has none, these two have long range missiles" and I look at them and they're all built the same and painted the same. Then I'm like... "um... k..." and there's minimal chance of me remembering which is which especially after they've moved and changed formation/transformed.

**Mike1975**

Red_Starrise wrote:
Mike, if I have 3 50 man blob IG squads and I tell you there are 5 plasma guns, 5 sgts and somewhere there's a commissar but you look and all you see are 51 cadian models armed with lasguns are you necessarily going to remember which ones are which? I'm not saying to be a WYSIWYG Nazi and in games like Malifaux or Infinity where there's typically a low number of models on the board it's not such a biggie. However, when there are a significant number of models out there it's just simply kind of a douche move to expect your opponent to remember which guardsmen with lasguns aren't. As I don't really HAVE the rules to R:RT I can't tell you what to expect in terms of loadout variability within squadrons. I'll say this though, if someone is running 3-4 4 ship flights of valks and they can all have different missiles & lasers then I sure do expect that my opponent either has them clearly armed with what I can see differently or has painted them accordingly somehow. I don't feel it's fair that they should have to guess which of my guardsmen aren't riflemen thus I don't feel it's fair I should have to guess which Valkyries have which missiles/lasers.

Again, though, you're taking it to the extreme here. You're still making abrasive attacks on people who insist on WYSIWYG. Keep in mind that not everyone who wants to be able to tell what their opponent is fielding at a glance is the type of person who will berate them over it. However, by that same token, not everyone who doesn't believe in WYSIWYG is honest about what is what every time either. The intent behind WYSIWYG is full transparency to both players.

I see nothing wrong with having a craft marked with say flames or something that clearly distinguishes it from the rest having drop tanks modeled for fun & you tell me that specific plane has long range missiles. Cool. I can tell that it has them because it doesn't blend into the rest of the craft. I am even ok with you saying something like "this entire squadron here has LRMs but I didn't put the missiles on because they are too fiddly". Cool. I can see that all of those craft have LRMs, no biggie.

It's when we get into things like (and again, this is but an example and may not be valid on its face because I don't have the rules for squadron composition) "this Valkyrie has medium missiles, this one has none, these two have long range missiles" and I look at them and they're all built the same and painted the same. Then I'm like... "um... k..." and there's minimal chance of me remembering which is which especially after they've moved and changed formation/transformed.

And if you see it as an extreme, take it for what it is worth and move on. I take it from the comments that is it not as extreme as some would believe and from what I've heard from my nephews and others it is not.

As with the IG squads I'd tell the person OK, so now mark them with a sticker or something so we both remember which is which and move on. There are simple ways to keep people honest. Full disclosure when you do not have WYSIWYG and proper tracking is always a requirement. Nobody has said anything different. In your Valk example then you put a sticker or something on one wing and another on another to mark them. It's not like you are going to likely play with more than 5 squadrons in any game. Just like I don't plan on putting those silly command markers on the Command Destroids. Mine will be built normally. Maybe one or two with that thing. If I have one that is a commander I will mark the mini with a die or something to that no mistakes are made. If people will cheat with those things then it's pretty easy to erase a dot or two on a dry erasable card when your units are hit......

**Korias1004**

Just wanted to give a quick update.

I got my email last Friday, got my delivery this Wednesday. Packing was decent, but not great, as they used wadded brown paper to pad between the non-boxed sprues (which were packed together in a plastic "bag"). The core game was boxed and shrink wrapped. As I have no intention of playing the game, due more to the horror of having to assemble those miniatures than anything else, I intend to keep it all wrapped. I don't know if I should sell off what I have as I do have wave 2 stuff coming, but only God knows when. So save it to sell as a bundle or take it out piece meal?

Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm watching 3 other battlecry pledges with the wave1 stuff on ebay and the current bid price is quite varied.

My buddy who also invested in this got his stuff earlier this week (never got a shipping email).

I should call my dad and see if he got his.

**Swabby**

I have been watching ebay pretty heavily. I think the guys selling it piecemeal are going to make out like bandits.

Four artillery pods were going for like 40 bucks last I check the auction.

**rigeld2**

Mike1975 wrote:
. Striving for it is fine, refusing to play with others who have less is not.

And no one has said that the latter is what they do. So you're tilting at windmills. Having fun with that?

Both my nephews have played 40k since they were 8 and they have gone through changing codexes and stats. They are not going to tear apart their minis and redo them just because GW decided to change the stats for Necrons.

Um. As far as I can think of, none of the Necron models changed much - they just got new ones. I mean, I could be wrong, but...

**chaos0xomega**

Forar wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Im still waiting for any indication at all that my pledge is being shipped to me :(

What did you order?

If it was a Battle Cry, it should be in the mail. Check your spam filter and whatnot.

Showdown? Just started shipping. Maybe this week or next? Depends on whether or not they get another container, if what they've told us is true and their/my math holds up.

Reckless? Probably going to be a while yet.

Whatever the double battlecry option was, I think that was Showdown?

**griffen127**

Has anyone seen a good quality scan of the rules?

**Forar**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Whatever the double battlecry option was, I think that was Showdown?

Yeah, that's a showdown, which just began shipping last week, and they are out of materials (or close to it), so they're waiting on the next container to arrive. One might arrive this week, and one might arrive next week, so the next big shipping push is currently set for mid November.

**Mike1975**

rigeld2 wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
. Striving for it is fine, refusing to play with others who have less is not.

And no one has said that the latter is what they do. So you're tilting at windmills. Having fun with that?

Both my nephews have played 40k since they were 8 and they have gone through changing codexes and stats. They are not going to tear apart their minis and redo them just because GW decided to change the stats for Necrons.

Um. As far as I can think of, none of the Necron models changed much - they just got new ones. I mean, I could be wrong, but...

Actually, for something that supposedly does not happen I find it amusing that you guys get so defensive over it. It does say something.

Moving on to Tactics now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the facebook page Peter Nolen is taking Hi-Res pics of the sprues and drawing what legs and arms go together etc. Really useful.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1440349382851175/

**Swabby**

Mike1975 wrote:

Actually, for something that supposedly does not happen I find it amusing that you guys get so defensive over it. It does say something.

So wait, you make massive broad brush stereotypes of the wargaming community, then accuse us of defending something that only you keep bringing up, and then you take our challenging that as some kind of sign that you are on to something?

Also not everyone here is on the facebook group, can you post the information here?

**rigeld2**

Mike1975 wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
. Striving for it is fine, refusing to play with others who have less is not.

And no one has said that the latter is what they do. So you're tilting at windmills. Having fun with that?

Both my nephews have played 40k since they were 8 and they have gone through changing codexes and stats. They are not going to tear apart their minis and redo them just because GW decided to change the stats for Necrons.

Um. As far as I can think of, none of the Necron models changed much - they just got new ones. I mean, I could be wrong, but...

Actually, for something that supposedly does not happen I find it amusing that you guys get so defensive over it. It does say something.

It says that you keep making baseless claims and playing the martyr when you're called out on it, or that everyone else *must* be wrong...

**Jihadin**

Swabby wrote:
I have been watching ebay pretty heavily. I think the guys selling it piecemeal are going to make out like bandits.

Four artillery pods were going for like 40 bucks last I check the auction.

I am going to have a good size UEDF/RDF and Zentradi force just from Ebay alone

**Mike1975**

Swabby wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:

Actually, for something that supposedly does not happen I find it amusing that you guys get so defensive over it. It does say something.

So wait, you make massive broad brush stereotypes of the wargaming community, then accuse us of defending something that only you keep bringing up, and then you take our challenging that as some kind of sign that you are on to something?

Also not everyone here is on the facebook group, can you post the information here?

I was never broad brush, I was very specific that people who push WYSIWYG onto others and refuse to play otherwise are a detriment, I was also told that that is a rare occaision. If it is indeed rare then there would be no reason to take offense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
. Striving for it is fine, refusing to play with others who have less is not.

And no one has said that the latter is what they do. So you're tilting at windmills. Having fun with that?

Both my nephews have played 40k since they were 8 and they have gone through changing codexes and stats. They are not going to tear apart their minis and redo them just because GW decided to change the stats for Necrons.

Um. As far as I can think of, none of the Necron models changed much - they just got new ones. I mean, I could be wrong, but...

Actually, for something that supposedly does not happen I find it amusing that you guys get so defensive over it. It does say something.

It says that you keep making baseless claims and playing the martyr when you're called out on it, or that everyone else *must* be wrong...

Not baseless at all, proven, more than once. Baseless would assume and imply that it does not happen. Not sure where you get the Martyr crap. Meh.

**Mike1975**

here is a sample of what Peter is doing

**griffen127**

This is some great stuff. I hope PB post this on there site as it can help people alot, more so to the new hobbyist. Also Anyone seen a nice scan of the rules?

**Miguelsan**

A question that probably has been asked but scanning 246 pages is too much. I've seen the size of the valks compared to 40k marines but what about the destroids compared to battletech mechs?

The Glaug officer pod is too big but if the Tomahawk and Defender are close enough I'm totally buying a box.

M.