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Is it Robotech or Palladium that bring out peoples inner arse? Can we all agree that if an argument makes it over 1 page its time to take it to PM?

That depends Joyboozer, how many people can participate in a PM?

 Miguelsan wrote:
A question that probably has been asked but scanning 246 pages is too much. I've seen the size of the valks compared to 40k marines but what about the destroids compared to battletech mechs?

The Glaug officer pod is too big but if the Tomahawk and Defender are close enough I'm totally buying a box.

M.

Doable. Warhammer is not on a hex base

Edit

Officer Pod Zentraedi compare to Battletech Marauder is a bit of a size difference.

So far what I am seeing the Battletech mini's are a bit smaller but mount them on a hex base then its a smaller dimension
So depending on what Mecha they are releasing over time
Battletech mini's
BattleMaster
Griffin
Wolverine
Archer
Crusader
Shadow Hawk
MAYBE the Pheonix Hawk
Rifleman
Crossbow

Could be playeable

I know there are a few others like the
Wasp
Stinger
I do not think their same dimension as the Veritechs

As for vehicles
Packrat
Van Lucks
LRM Carriers
F14 (Micro Armor)

Actually if you have the old Robotech RPG books one can hipp shoot stat sheets for those vehicles to add into the game

Missile Launchers like an MLRS can work
Strykers


1/500 scale Aircraft carrier can be kit bashed into Daedulus or Prometheus but there are four levels of the carriers and not including figuring out that ramp system if one want to do the scenario of Khyron bum rush onto SDF1

Even the Glaug is comparable to some of the larger mechs from IWM these days.

Thanks Jihadin. For heavy mechs it's within reasonable size, pity about the Valks being too big for the old Wasps and Stingers.

Upon reviewing the available pictures the Glaug is too big for battletech, the Marauder is only 5 tons heavier than the Warhammer (Tomahawk) and new figure is like 10/15% bigger perhaps?

M.

Actually I've plenty of plastic card left and I still have all my refinement tool and calibers that I can add fitted modification onto a battletech figure. Two years as a aircraft frame repairman one can work with some small sheetmetal mayhem.

In fact I would hold off building terrain
I need a 6" inch steel ruler showing 1/64 measurement side against the Officer pod length wise for height
Also against lower leg
follow by upper leg
Body length
Body width
Body Height
weapon pod length and width
Upper Arm connecting to the weapon pod
Also the length of the small las..whatever the weapon is on top of the main body

Example pic I require for the Officer Pod

 Jihadin wrote:


So far what I am seeing the Battletech mini's are a bit smaller but mount them on a hex base then its a smaller dimension
So depending on what Mecha they are releasing over time
Battletech mini's
BattleMaster
Griffin
Wolverine
Shadow Hawk

I'm afraid that these 4 are Dougram Fang of the Sun (Along with the Goliath, Thunderbolt and Scorpion) so don't hold your breath. There is a new 1/72 kit released recently here in Japan but as you can imagine that's too big tho they make intersting proxies for 40K

M.

PS: Autocannon/5

Darn I have those to lol
Goliath, Thunderbolt and Scorpian

One can use the Mech recovery vehicles from Battletech to add in. Also the Coolant carriers

karnov aircraft
Kestrel aircraft
Warrior helo works to

Micro Armour one can get the AWACS and mod the wings for the Robotech AWAC bird and/or reverse the wings for a forward swept for a Hell's Kitchen aircraft

I'm spit balling all this being I do not have my hands on the actual rule books/data cards to be able to hip shoot a conversion to expand the game

Mike just because you've seen something doesn't make it a universal truth & basically accusing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view of wysiwyg being unimportant of power gaming is exactly what's bothering those who are upset not thatyou don't subscribe to what many do indeed consider a fundamental part of TTWG.

Further, I can only speak for myself, but I don't appreciate being talked down to by telling me to "move on". I'm not your child, nor do you know me in any sense & I wasn't remotely rude or disrespectful to you when attempting to illustrate why I & many others feel wysiwyg is important & thus why your remark that it doesn't matter if your cards are 5 points off or not may well matter to some people.

Typically in a court of law if opposing counsel is resorting to just being rude/petty it means he knows his case is weak or he's foundering & hoping to distract from the fact that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. There aren't any fanboys to high five you for being rude here, you'll need to return to your Facebook group to have such negative behavior reinforced.

Now that being said, on to the pics. I'm still concerned about the sheer # of tiny parts & the way everything aligns. They look like model kits rather than gaming minis.

That's not a Robotech Tactics model, that's one of the prototype models I did in resin (prior to ND's work) my version is a bit bigger then the RRT ones.

(and people wondered why I pulled down most of my pics? it was to avoid this type of confusion with the official pieces)

 Jihadin wrote:
but what about the destroids compared to battletech mechs?

The Glaug officer pod is too big but if the Tomahawk and Defender are close enough I'm totally buying a box.

The Glaug is WAAAAY too big to be a proper scaled Marauder




Here's the official RRT Tomahawks next to BTech Warhammers, the RRT ones appear slightly smaller then then the BT models. (and are almost two heads smaller then the prototypes I made)

Thanks for the info. Glad that those Warhammers will fit just
right.

M.

 Red_Starrise wrote:
Mike just because you've seen something doesn't make it a universal truth & basically accusing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view of wysiwyg being unimportant of power gaming is exactly what's bothering those who are upset not thatyou don't subscribe to what many do indeed consider a fundamental part of TTWG.

Further, I can only speak for myself, but I don't appreciate being talked down to by telling me to "move on". I'm not your child, nor do you know me in any sense & I wasn't remotely rude or disrespectful to you when attempting to illustrate why I & many others feel wysiwyg is important & thus why your remark that it doesn't matter if your cards are 5 points off or not may well matter to some people.

Typically in a court of law if opposing counsel is resorting to just being rude/petty it means he knows his case is weak or he's foundering & hoping to distract from the fact that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. There aren't any fanboys to high five you for being rude here, you'll need to return to your Facebook group to have such negative behavior reinforced.

Now that being said, on to the pics. I'm still concerned about the sheer # of tiny parts & the way everything aligns. They look like model kits rather than gaming minis.

Isn't that because they're using the old model kits parts breakup and just shrinking them? I remember hearing some talk about how the old nichimo kit parts breakup was very similar to the modern tomahawk one.

Also, exalted for truth

 Red_Starrise wrote:
Mike just because you've seen something doesn't make it a universal truth & basically accusing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view of wysiwyg being unimportant of power gaming is exactly what's bothering those who are upset not thatyou don't subscribe to what many do indeed consider a fundamental part of TTWG.

Further, I can only speak for myself, but I don't appreciate being talked down to by telling me to "move on". I'm not your child, nor do you know me in any sense & I wasn't remotely rude or disrespectful to you when attempting to illustrate why I & many others feel wysiwyg is important & thus why your remark that it doesn't matter if your cards are 5 points off or not may well matter to some people.

Typically in a court of law if opposing counsel is resorting to just being rude/petty it means he knows his case is weak or he's foundering & hoping to distract from the fact that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. There aren't any fanboys to high five you for being rude here, you'll need to return to your Facebook group to have such negative behavior reinforced.

Now that being said, on to the pics. I'm still concerned about the sheer # of tiny parts & the way everything aligns. They look like model kits rather than gaming minis.

1. My statement is that when players FORCE WYSIWYG onto others they are in the wrong. Do you force it on others in every and all cases? If yes, you are included in the people that I think ultimately hurt the game. If no, why are you so stuck on it. It's a very specific instance and you say you are not like that so there is no reason to take offense.

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

3. Your second paragraph is just childish. I've never been rude or trashed people. I simply stated that if you are among those in #1 your actions are stupid and hurt the franchise and the minis business in general. If you allow some leeway then you do not apply. I care what others think and for the hobby or I would not be adamant to stand for what I see as a wrong. As adamant as you are to stand for what you see as a right.

4. WYSIWYG is a good thing to strive for, but common sense also needs to be taken into account.

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

You don't know this for a fact and that is the whole problem.

3. Your second paragraph is just childish. I've never been rude or trashed people.

You just did!

4. WYSIWYG is a good thing to strive for, but common sense also needs to be taken into account.

This isn't what you said earlier at all.

Korias1004 wrote:
So save it to sell as a bundle or take it out piece meal?

I'll give you five bucks apiece for your destroids.

 Swabby wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

You don't know this for a fact and that is the whole problem.

I'm not sure how he wouldn't know the cards are identical to the PB ones. He has received his Wave 1 as quite a few others. He made the larger set (if that is what we are talking about) after receiving them so that players would have a larger 4"x6" version instead of a small card to read which is helpful. The stats are identical to the ones PB sent out.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Thanks Jihadin. For heavy mechs it's within reasonable size, pity about the Valks being too big for the old Wasps and Stingers.

Upon reviewing the available pictures the Glaug is too big for battletech, the Marauder is only 5 tons heavier than the Warhammer (Tomahawk) and new figure is like 10/15% bigger perhaps?

M.

The problem of course being that FASA just used the designs and ignored any reference to their relative heights in the original source. So now the official miniatures highlight the drastic rescaling that occurred within Battletech (such as a Battroid being made halfsize into a Stinger/Wasp)

 Mike1975 wrote:
1. My statement is that when players FORCE WYSIWYG onto others they are in the wrong. Do you force it on others in every and all cases? If yes, you are included in the people that I think ultimately hurt the game. If no, why are you so stuck on it. It's a very specific instance and you say you are not like that so there is no reason to take offense.

Because you brought it up. You brought up that casual gamers are more interested in having fun (direct quote) and that casual gamers don't care about WYSIWYG. Therefore (using your argument) people who care about WYSIWYG don't care about having fun? If that's not what you meant then clarify yourself please - and take some time when writing posts to understand what they mean when you write them.

Modeling specific to what the unit has is *always* possible. Yes, it costs more in a model/time investment, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. The other option is to not take Heavy missiles if you don't have a model with them.
Like in Battletech - don't have a Victor model? Don't take a Victor.

You said,

 Mike1975 wrote:
It's a courtesy with people who can and plan on buying enough to make very specific army. At least this is not 40k where army lists can change yearly. Modeling specific to what the unit has is not always possible with casual gamers but more of a concern with more die hard players. I do not see it as something to be admired unless it is when the same requirements are not pushed onto others, which is typically the case. I have seen that scenario way too often.

 Mike1975 wrote:
No, many of us play with more casual gamers who are more interested in having fun instead of people who consider themselves Die Hards.

Miniatures gaming has and always will have a few factions, the die hards that want specific armies made to reflect the actual units in toto, who are typically very concerned with the rules and are often very competitive. They also are typically but not always very strict on painted minis and # colors and more.

Then you have more casual gamers that are not as strict but who love to play and that is their primary consideration when buying in to a game. A game with them may often have a 180 point game per side where one player asks if they mind if he ups it to 185 and the other may agree and change something on their own forces instead of focusing in on 180 points.

Then you have the players that play rarely, love the game, and are in many ways the opposite of the die hards. They want to play because they like the universe and story. These are the first and foremost to be pushed away by some, but not all, of those in the Die Hard category. The ones that adamantly push the rare player to conform to their view of what a "real" player is.

Those are what I've seen as the 3 primary groups. There are shades and variations of each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a note, typically each group typically cannot understand how the others can enjoy the game in the way they play. The Rare and Die Hards are the most opposed and seem to conflict the most.

What we've said (and all we've said) is that we like our forces to be WYSIWYG. And if your cards aren't official (which you say they aren't, even though they're labelled that way) then following your cards can lead to issues. Like we said.

Korias1004 wrote:
I don't know if I should sell off what I have as I do have wave 2 stuff coming, but only God knows when. So save it to sell as a bundle or take it out piece meal?

Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm watching 3 other battlecry pledges with the wave1 stuff on ebay and the current bid price is quite varied.

I'd either sell it as is (wave one bundle, in hand), or piecemeal now. Look at it this way; Wave One is mostly "chaff" units; things that people will have in sizable quantities even just with a core box or two. The supply is low and the demand is high, now is probably your best chance to get some sales in before online retailers are selling in bulk, bringing the Supply and Demand closer to equilibrium.

Which would be more lucrative seems to be a bit of a crapshoot, especially with the variable pricing for BC W1's on eBay, but on the up side it'd also be less work than listing and shipping a dozen or more sprue sets.

 Dark Severance wrote:

I'm not sure how he wouldn't know the cards are identical to the PB ones. He has received his Wave 1 as quite a few others. He made the larger set (if that is what we are talking about) after receiving them so that players would have a larger 4"x6" version instead of a small card to read which is helpful. The stats are identical to the ones PB sent out.

I have also recieved my wave one stuff. We didn't get all of the cards. You don't even get all of the cards for the product you have on hand. No one knows what is on the final revision of the cards outside of PB and people should not be claiming otherwise.

Sining wrote:

Isn't that because they're using the old model kits parts breakup and just shrinking them? I remember hearing some talk about how the old nichimo kit parts breakup was very similar to the modern tomahawk one.
Also, exalted for truth

What? Are you saying the Robotech kits are rescaled Nichimo kits? Who told you that?
Nichimo must have been using Cray supercomputers back in 1982 to do the CAD work.

 Swabby wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

You don't know this for a fact and that is the whole problem.

3. Your second paragraph is just childish. I've never been rude or trashed people.

You just did!

4. WYSIWYG is a good thing to strive for, but common sense also needs to be taken into account.

This isn't what you said earlier at all.

If you think calling a comment childish rude.....you need some thicker skin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, and the cards do have some changes, BUT they are all changes the I pointed out days before they went to the printer and I was told they were good before they went. So do I have PB telling me or sending me something saying this is the official stuff, no. Do I have a very high confidence that they did not make any other changes after they had told me that they were done and that the cards were ready? Yes. Use them or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Swabby wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

You don't know this for a fact and that is the whole problem.

I'm not sure how he wouldn't know the cards are identical to the PB ones. He has received his Wave 1 as quite a few others. He made the larger set (if that is what we are talking about) after receiving them so that players would have a larger 4"x6" version instead of a small card to read which is helpful. The stats are identical to the ones PB sent out.

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

oh, and the cards do have some changes, BUT they are all changes the I pointed out days before they went to the printer and I was told they were good before they went. So do I have PB telling me or sending me something saying this is the official stuff, no. Do I have a very high confidence that they did not make any other changes after they had told me that they were done and that the cards were ready? Yes. Use them or not.

*headdesk* dude... Can you see the contradiction here? This is why you should stop saying they match PBs stats. No one outside of PB knows for sure right now.

 judgedoug wrote:


What? Are you saying the Robotech kits are rescaled Nichimo kits? Who told you that?
Nichimo must have been using Cray supercomputers back in 1982 to do the CAD work.

You may be on to something for the reason for the year long delay (and counting). Maybe when Ninja Division said they had to change the designs due to an incompatible file format it was because they submitted punchcards when they needed 8" floppies instead. Hopefully the 100MB zip drives Palladium upgraded to along with Win95 will prevent such issues with wave 2. *fingers crossed*

 Swabby wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

2. The cards are not off. They are identical to PB stats. Use them or don't if you are concerned. I've made them for myself and decided it would be useful to others.

oh, and the cards do have some changes, BUT they are all changes the I pointed out days before they went to the printer and I was told they were good before they went. So do I have PB telling me or sending me something saying this is the official stuff, no. Do I have a very high confidence that they did not make any other changes after they had told me that they were done and that the cards were ready? Yes. Use them or not.

*headdesk* dude... Can you see the contradiction here? This is why you should stop saying they match PBs stats. No one outside of PB knows for sure right now.

If it makes you happy I can email or text them and confirm it just for you.....some people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


What? Are you saying the Robotech kits are rescaled Nichimo kits? Who told you that?
Nichimo must have been using Cray supercomputers back in 1982 to do the CAD work.

You may be on to something for the reason for the year long delay (and counting). Maybe when Ninja Division said they had to change the designs due to an incompatible file format it was because they submitted punchcards when they needed 8" floppies instead. Hopefully the 100MB zip drives Palladium upgraded to along with Win95 will prevent such issues with wave 2. *fingers crossed*

LOL, I think it more likely the Chinese company wanted to coax some more $ out of an inexperienced customer.

Mike honestly at this point it would be better to push them to release the official cards. I honestly prefer your card layout to the official ones, we just need to be clear that they are unofficial and could be different from what the official cards will say when they release.

PB is totally notorious for making last minute edits to books that their paid writers have written. It is not even remotely unreasonable to expect they have changed things up on a fan volunteer without telling him.

 Mike1975 wrote:
If it makes you happy I can email or text them and confirm it just for you.....some people.

I've never used an orkmoticon on purpose before.

Mike, just remove "Official" from the files and stop pimping them as replacements for the official ones - because they aren't.

 warboss wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


What? Are you saying the Robotech kits are rescaled Nichimo kits? Who told you that?
Nichimo must have been using Cray supercomputers back in 1982 to do the CAD work.

You may be on to something for the reason for the year long delay (and counting). Maybe when Ninja Division said they had to change the designs due to an incompatible file format it was because they submitted punchcards when they needed 8" floppies instead. Hopefully the 100MB zip drives Palladium upgraded to along with Win95 will prevent such issues with wave 2. *fingers crossed*

Congrats to Palladium for upgrading their computers, but Ninja Division wrote the rules and did the 3D sculpts.
It's amusing to see everyone attempt to place blame on Palladium for what they imagine is an inferior product (it's not) with bad rules (they're pretty fun) and terrible models (they're quite good). The amount of twisting and stretching and conforming to blame the publisher and not the designer has been pretty damn amusing. Regardless of who was publishing it, the end result of Ninja Division's design work would be the same. I wonder if the criticism would also be the same? (nope, not if it was any other company)

If the VF-1J support card is still in there, then there is a flat out unofficial aspect to the files included.

It may seem like minutia to you, but calling something "official' without it being 100% Official is a problem for some people/groups. You've had your own "official" rules for ages now, and when pressed would note that they were 'basically' the official rules, but sometimes said they were 'better' because you were trying to future proof them for later releases, and yours had revision after revision going on with material added and taken away.

Look, the simplest route is probably to maintain 2 separate lists.

"OFFICIAL" cards; identical to the ones that PB releases, errors and all. Exactly what one would get in a core box or expansion pack.

"UNOFFICIAL" cards; your own personal extrapolations, based on unreleased content, things that probably should exist (the 1J support), etc.

If you want people to take your word that card set 1 is worthwhile as a backup, there needs to be zero differentiation (aside from layout/images I suppose) between them and the actual Official cards. If any changes were to be made, I'd go with Officially Released By Palladium Errata at most; stuff that they HAVE released on a web page, forum post or book update. The sort of stuff that would be played with at a tournament. And this needs to be anal retentively tracked and noted. This is the kind of info that must be accurate. If someone loses their cards or they're damaged or whatever and they did print off your copies to take to a store, league or tournament, there cannot be any confusion, mistakes or adjustments. Because accidentally taking a 305 point force instead of a 300 point force could be grounds for a penalty or dismissal from the event. As has been noted, just because Tournaments aren't for you doesn't mean the needs of tournament players can be ignored or played fast and loose with.

Set 2 is where you're free to do whatever you like, and note it as such. "Inspired by ____" cards, sensible tweaks, whatever. Maintaining both could be an issue as well, I'm not saying these suggestions are utterly foolproof, but there needs to be a clear demarcation between the two, and frankly, in the last year and a half it's generally not been there. You handwave it away as unimportant, despite several people noting reasons that it could very well be important.

For all the reasons people can come up with along with untold numbers of others.

Doubly so given that the cards contain information that is not found in the book, meaning players have no means of verifying it. Hell, writing in the missing info may be a very wise idea, messy as it might be for some of us with terrible handwriting.

 judgedoug wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


What? Are you saying the Robotech kits are rescaled Nichimo kits? Who told you that?
Nichimo must have been using Cray supercomputers back in 1982 to do the CAD work.

You may be on to something for the reason for the year long delay (and counting). Maybe when Ninja Division said they had to change the designs due to an incompatible file format it was because they submitted punchcards when they needed 8" floppies instead. Hopefully the 100MB zip drives Palladium upgraded to along with Win95 will prevent such issues with wave 2. *fingers crossed*

Congrats to Palladium for upgrading their computers, but Ninja Division wrote the rules and did the 3D sculpts.
It's amusing to see everyone attempt to place blame on Palladium for what they imagine is an inferior product (it's not) with bad rules (they're pretty fun) and terrible models (they're quite good). The amount of twisting and stretching and conforming to blame the publisher and not the designer has been pretty damn amusing. Regardless of who was publishing it, the end result of Ninja Division's design work would be the same. I wonder if the criticism would also be the same? (nope, not if it was any other company)

Wow, that is some seriously bad reading comprehension fail there, Judge. I'll bold the key part where I first assigned part of the blame to ND. You apparently missed that in your zeal to defend the Maiden Kevin. I'm fully aware that the last four crowdfunding attempts by ND and PB that have started delivering in some fashion have all been at least a year late. There is plenty of blame to go around and I'm sure all four companies involved (ND, PB, HG, and the factory) each contributed.