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I think John just realized his whole defense of PB went out the window, evidently, he thought Domestic paid S&H or that RoW paid same amount as domestic, without realizing, domestic did not pay S&H but according to him Domestic should still be waiting for their product since we paid the lowest amount of S&H "$0" .

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:
just on a side note I just heard people in the RoW can order the game from Palladium and it will ship without waiting.

Will it ship outside the US for free???

Didn't realize non US pledges were being shipped for free! Are they going to reimburse me the 50 bucks I paid for shipping, then?

 Albertorius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:
just on a side note I just heard people in the RoW can order the game from Palladium and it will ship without waiting.

Will it ship outside the US for free???

Didn't realize non US pledges were being shipped for free! Are they going to reimburse me the 50 bucks I paid for shipping, then?

Poor Hwang. Gonna have to move those goalposts. Again.

Merijeek wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:
just on a side note I just heard people in the RoW can order the game from Palladium and it will ship without waiting.

Will it ship outside the US for free???

Didn't realize non US pledges were being shipped for free! Are they going to reimburse me the 50 bucks I paid for shipping, then?

Poor Hwang. Gonna have to move those goalposts. Again.

Maybe this time he might manage not to shove them up his own arse.

I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

and yet you keep quoting PB's white knights stance which is, we should have known better, problem is until this KS I knew nothing of what PB had done, I didn't even know they were in business still since no store around here sells their product, and I didn't know they were a shoddy company that doesn't care about their consumers, if I did I would have never backed this project. and I'll make darn certain I will never back any other project of theirs and make sure to let anyone I know what PB is like and to avoid their product at all costs.

you keep saying we should have known better and gone by the saying of Caveat Emptor, but PB should have known better in this day and age of the internet and gone by the saying of Caveat Venditor, they have destroyed their company and reputation beyond all belief, if you have stock in Palladium Books, sell it cause it will soon be worth nothing.

It was asked during the campaign what Palladiums role was, and assurances were given( including from WWRD I believe) that Palladiums input was minimal.

Joyboozer wrote:
It was asked during the campaign what Palladiums role was, and assurances were given( including from WWRD I believe) that Palladiums input was minimal.

yeah we were told ND was running this project and that turned out to be a lie, with PB fething up everything, in fact ND's portion of wave 2 was done months ago, its all been in PB's hands since then, doing lord knows what changes.

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

you keep saying we should have known better and gone by the saying of Caveat Emptor,

if you have stock in Palladium Books

I do, and you should.

I don't and I won't. Knowing what I've known about PB for the past several years, I'd blow my money on booze before ever buying stock in PB.

As above, I knew from the outset (bad rules, lack of financial & management control, Northern Gun) that PB wasn't the best company, which is why I limited my risk, hoping that this really was a ND project. As is now obvious to all, RRT may have had ND input early on, but it is a PB project through and through. If anything, this is a reprise of the crowdfunded RIFTS Northern Gun 1 & 2 debacle that was well-reported at the time of the KS.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

Ah yes. You're not defending them, you're just pointing out she was asking for it by wearing a short skirt.

Nope, not the same at all.

At the time of the KS, PB's troubles were well known:
- RIFTS and Robotech had been out for a long time, anybody could have seen them.
- the embezzlement loss and cash position were well known and public information
- the lack of progress on the Northern Gun presales was also well known.

Failure to do due diligence is definitely the backer's fault.


Question for you:
- did you back Heavy Gear?
- how about Heroquest 25th?
Both of those are old properties, but you would be beyond foolish to have put significant money behind either of them, for the obvious reasons.

If either / both of those campaigns have problems, will you be excoriating people for knowing better and telling you so?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If anything, this is a reprise of the crowdfunded RIFTS Northern Gun 1 & 2 debacle that was well-reported at the time of the KS.

not by me, before this KS I only bought their Robotech RPG system, never played their Rifts system since I found it full of fail (was more a fan of SJG's Gurps system), but like I said until the KS started I didn't even know PB was still in business.

So after all the drama on the PB forums and the KS comments raising the red flag about the legions of rich kids who had their armies painted for thousands of dollars and lost every game robbing all the honest tabletop genius players who won every game but painted their own (or didn't paint at all) of their trophies and it turns out that the guy who is most vocal about warning the community of this Adepticon travesty in the making never planned on going to the event in the first place! Ugh.. typical. At least here in the thread, the loudest complainers about palladium actually bought into the KS.

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If anything, this is a reprise of the crowdfunded RIFTS Northern Gun 1 & 2 debacle that was well-reported at the time of the KS.

not by me, before this KS I only bought their Robotech RPG system, never played their Rifts system since I found it full of fail (was more a fan of SJG's Gurps system), but like I said until the KS started I didn't even know PB was still in business.

Sure, I get that. But did you dig for any "dirt" on Palladium before you backed?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If anything, this is a reprise of the crowdfunded RIFTS Northern Gun 1 & 2 debacle that was well-reported at the time of the KS.

not by me, before this KS I only bought their Robotech RPG system, never played their Rifts system since I found it full of fail (was more a fan of SJG's Gurps system), but like I said until the KS started I didn't even know PB was still in business.

Sure, I get that. But did you dig for any "dirt" on Palladium before you backed?

no because it said ND was running the show, checked on them they seemed legit so backed it based on I was told they were doing the game, not PB who has no experience in miniatures.

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If anything, this is a reprise of the crowdfunded RIFTS Northern Gun 1 & 2 debacle that was well-reported at the time of the KS.

not by me, before this KS I only bought their Robotech RPG system, never played their Rifts system since I found it full of fail (was more a fan of SJG's Gurps system), but like I said until the KS started I didn't even know PB was still in business.

Sure, I get that. But did you dig for any "dirt" on Palladium before you backed?

no because it said ND was running the show, checked on them they seemed legit so backed it based on I was told they were doing the game, not PB who has no experience in miniatures.

OK, I totally understand. ND being involved was the only reason I gambled to put any money in at all.

" make sure to let anyone I know what PB is like and to avoid their product at all costs. "

I think Rick's wife should send Palladium a thank you note for finally giving him a purpose in life (and keeping him occupied).

Hrm, I think either our friend JHDoubleDee is either skipping my posts or has me on ignore, because I have definitely pointed out the 'ND being involved allayed many of our concerns' aspect in the last page.

Nice to make an impression and whatnot.

@Warboss: man, that's just about the least charitable interpretation you could have gone for. Ugh. As they were originally written, the rules didn't note anything about weighting of the scores. Now we have better context on that. Do we really need to mock people who were concerned over badly worded rules with an outcome of the Adepticon folks addressing those concerns?

Nobody jumped off a bridge here. I'd say the system worked as intended; concerns were brought up, and fears were allayed.

The worst part of it was people beating the ever living gak out of arguments that nobody was actually presenting.

I think he ignores everything that invalidates his opinions.

Also, Rick, is your wife that lolafett guy? You get on like an old married couple.

Joyboozer wrote:
Also, Rick, is your wife that lolafett guy? You get on like an old married couple.

I'm at the point of ignoring him, he is nothing but a PB shill no matter what.

Nevermind.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

Got it. So at this point youre just purely trolling.

You know you really should be an ambassador for palladium. In fact why dont you repeat this over at the kickstarter? And in fact anywhere public. After all youre right and everyone else is wrong, correct? Especially those goddam foreigners.

Now all John needs to do is join Mike's facebook page and the circle is complete

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not defending PB at all. I'm saying that ROW should have known better. There's a difference.

"It was her fault, your honor. Just look what she was wearing!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
no because it said ND was running the show, checked on them they seemed legit so backed it based on I was told they were doing the game, not PB who has no experience in miniatures.

Yeah, unfortunately that was what made a lot of people back the project. Alas, look what we got.

Don't worry, for the next project they'll be working with Pirate Battalion, who will be doing all the heavy lifting on the rules (update a few things, new mechanics, etc), models, campaign and communications, with PB stepping back and taking a well deserved break. Just you wait, they've all learned so much this time will be different!

>.>

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

We are working on several fronts regarding Robotech® RPG Tactics™, FAQ to be posted online, much more detailed and elaborate building instructions, and other things. In fact, we may start posting the instruction sheets as Jeff Burke gets them done every few days.

The ship carrying the Australian backer rewards has been booked. The container and transport to the port should happen next week, possibly as soon as Monday. All 10+ pallets are packed up, shrink wrapped, banded and ready to go!

Some of the corrected renders for Wave Two items have started coming in as well. Meanwhile, we are prepping for convention season starting with AdeptiCon. See that convention report elsewhere for some details.



AdeptiCon will be host to a very special event – Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Battle for Macross Island™. The first Robotech® RPG Tactics™ tournament at an international gaming convention!

This tournament will be 300 points and have several games with fantastic scenarios.
Each table shall be a beautiful custom creation, for a unique gaming experience.
Five different awards will ensure that no matter what aspect of the hobby you are most interested in, there is an award that will be for you.
This tourney is for all levels of players from first-time tournament and convention attendees to seasoned gamers.
If you find yourself in the Chicagoland area we would love for you to sign up, stop by and say hello and meet a group of people who have the same interests as you. Even if you are unlikely to play, we would be happy to meet everyone. Come join the fun, fast-paced game of Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Slots are limited!

Latest update is basically 'Dear ROW, go feth yourself'

Thats what all the updates have said since the US backers got their product.

So, another Update so quickly after the last.

The EU container is shipping from Los Angeles, and the AU container is likely shipping from New York. While I understand there's an excuse for the latter, I do find it hilarious.

28 day travel time from New York, including on and offloading, meaning a more than doubling by doing this. It's 10 days from China to LA, and the distance from LA to Australia is only ~20% further.

But that only counts from when they actually SHIP the package. Which on the previous update might be another week or two. So February's out. As is likely the first half of March. Assuming everything goes smoothly, and as we've seen, Palladium don't have any issues with shipping delays. They're lucky that way.

Oh, and there's news on Wave 2. Same old stuff, though they do call out five items specifically. One of those being the Glaug Eldare, which they already had a PPP of back when they were working on it the first time. But that appears to have gone back to scratch.

Someone over on the KS lauded that as having learned their lesson not to show stuff until it's done. Whoopee! But as far as I'm concerned, "No pictures, never happened.". Some of this stuff is stuff that they were actually working on this time last year. Not gonna believe there's progress without seeing it.

Just remember, the first dedicated Wave 1 PPP (Spartans) showed up March 14, 2014. With twice as many models to design, we're 7 weeks from the previous timeline to have it miss GenCon (which is two weeks earlier this year). Tack on the timeframe to ship to backers, and wanting something at GC2015, it looks like "voting time" again.

And that doesn't take into account the Resin stuff. Which I can see PB forgetting about until way too late. So people with resin components are likely to get shafted and put to the back of the line, as it's unlikely PB will want to go three rounds of shipping.

And why do you believe that PB deems it necessary to do another 'vote'? They had such a landslide last time that obviously anyone who does not agree with them selling at Gencon is a statistical anomaly and (lives in the RoW and can go feth themselves) is probably an imaginary construct anyway.

I also don't know if PS is actually viable for the 'exclusive' characters. PB are going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on steel tooling for something that they intend on selling 5-10K of in total? Adding $5-10 PER MODEL just to include the tooling costs? At this point it may well be cheaper for them to just get a competent firm to do 3D prints of them to ship to us.

But again, so far as progress is concerned, "Pics, or it never happened!"