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Thanks to everyone. Going to sit down with my Zentradi player this Saturday and start assembling.

Don't use orange tube testors, get liquid model cement! It'll save you absolutely TONS of gap-filling and it's super easy. Testors liquid cement is OKish, but I really recommend Plastruct's Bondene or Plastic Weld (both are similar, but stay away from their non-toxic Weldene, it's crap). It comes in a 2 ounce bottle with a brush in the cap for about $4. You brush some of the cement onto contact area of both parts you're assembling, wait a couple seconds for the solvent to liquefy the plastic, then smush the parts together. Larger parts like 40k vehicles you can hold the parts together and drip glue into the seam. You'll get a very fine bead of plastic that smushes out of the joint, DON'T CLEAN IT OFF JUST YET! That small bead of liquified plastic is why the liquid glue works so marvelously.

While the parts grab each other right away, you have a few minutes to reposition parts till the solvent evaporates away, welding the plastic into a single piece. It will be slightly soft but firm for a couple hours, and once it's fully cure you can go back and scrape/file that bead of glue/plastic off the joint just like you would a mold line, leaving a perfect join underneath that usually requires zero gap-filling. First learned about it for building Gundam kits some years ago, but it's been a modelling trick for decades

Nice short youtube video showing what I mean by Dr Faust, who does a lot of awesome modeling videos including a few about Robotech. He's using Tenax 7R which is virtually the exact same glue as Plastic Weld (both are Methyl Ethyl Ketone based, which also works just fine as a glue if you pick it up)

 Kalamadea wrote:
Don't use orange tube testors, get liquid model cement!

I've been using Testors orange for over 30 years. It's great for styrene, and the gel makes it easy to control where it goes. I find liquid cement has a tendency to craze surfaces.

Dang, I'm glad I got out when I did (prior to mainstream US shipping). I only ate my shipping costs in selling my pledges.

A friend has been trying to sell his pledge for two weeks now on several popular Australian trade sites. He started at 15% off of his Kickstarter price, and has since dropped it down to 20%. Note, this isn't off retail, and isn't just for the Wave 1 stuff. His entire pledge on the KS was $580US, he's now trying to offload it, still in shrinkwrap, for $460US (with Wave 2 to follow). He's also offering to sell the product on hand (ie, BC Wave 1 and two Destroid expansions) for $160US, which when you consider the "Australia Tax", is a damned good deal. And getting no interest.

So... glad to see RRT going gangbusters down under. Obviously, it's a singular data point, but given there doesn't appear to be a glut of sales on those sites that could be diverting interest, it's concerning. I'm just glad it's a lack of interest sale on his part, and not a needing the money sale.

Obvious partial counterpoint, Good Games appear out of stock of the Core Box, but we don't know how many they had to sell, or how quickly they sold out. Didn't want to allege that it's not selling anywhere.

Morgan Vening wrote:
A friend has been trying to sell his pledge for two weeks now on several popular Australian trade sites. He started at 15% off of his Kickstarter price, and has since dropped it down to 20%. Note, this isn't off retail, and isn't just for the Wave 1 stuff. His entire pledge on the KS was $580US, he's now trying to offload it, still in shrinkwrap, for $460US (with Wave 2 to follow).

He dropped nearly $600 USD, sight unseen? Yikes.

I generally won't spend much more than $125 USD shipped, simply to limit risk. More and more, this looks like the right approach. You come in right around the pledging "sweet spot", and you don't have as much risk if the game tanks.

Yeah, I'm immensely glad I pulled out of the KS and picked up things when they hit retail. It's cheaper since online shops keep having blowout sales, and I wasn't stuck biting my nails waiting an extra year for it, I feel for the guys that bought into it heavy and have little to show for it, or that hated the end product.

As for orange tube glue, it has it's uses, but seamlessly filling gaps in parts is not one of them. Liquid cement can craze the surface, but I've never founf it to be anything a quick scraping of the knife/file couldn't clean right off unless I was immensely careless with the stuff, I have ruined a few models knocking the bottles over throughout the years, stupid tall thin bottles.

Yeah, high risk stuff that I'm on the fence about? Wait for retail!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
A friend has been trying to sell his pledge for two weeks now on several popular Australian trade sites. He started at 15% off of his Kickstarter price, and has since dropped it down to 20%. Note, this isn't off retail, and isn't just for the Wave 1 stuff. His entire pledge on the KS was $580US, he's now trying to offload it, still in shrinkwrap, for $460US (with Wave 2 to follow).

He dropped nearly $600 USD, sight unseen? Yikes.

Heh. I was in for almost triple that. Thankfully someone bought it all.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I generally won't spend much more than $125 USD shipped, simply to limit risk. More and more, this looks like the right approach. You come in right around the pledging "sweet spot", and you don't have as much risk if the game tanks.

I'm a lot more skeptical now, but at the time, the definitely had me on board. I didn't do as much research as I should have (having known PB had been in the industry several decades, not knowing their actual reputation), and at least during their campaign, it was a slick, well run project. The day after they collected the money, that's when the wheels started to come off. Given the limited local gaming, a good half of that pledge was going to go towards recruitment. I had five and a half BC's set aside for "If you're interested, you can have one at cost", to get a group going at a reasonable price to start.

Because while the BC was looking to be decent value, even during the campaign I knew trying to recruit people at full retail was going to be difficult. Even good and easy to assemble models at that price was pushing the upper limit (given what's necessary to field an army), and along with the expected currency drop (AU-US pricing was always going to shift), and the other hindrances (import costs), it was looking at being a hard sell. The additional ~20% price increase (from $30US to $36US) would not have helped. And with a game that doesn't have an established name (ie, anything beyond 40K/WHFB), it takes a fair amount of work, or a DAZZLING product (and RRT ain't that) to get the critical mass of people playing that will make the expenditure of several hundred dollars by new players not seem so burdensome. If you know you have a decent number of opponents already committed, it's pricy (as are almost all miniature wargames), but you can get a return on investment. If you're one of a dozen people interested, but are unsure if you'll be able to find an opponent, the ROI seems a bit bleaker.

But with all the scheduling screwups, general incompetences, bald faced lies, overall crappy handling of everything, and the straw that broke the camel's back, the parts breakdown, I was done. And as I've said, am thankful I got out when I was able to. Because if I had ~80lb worth of this (with more to come), and unable to shift it even at a significant loss, I'd be completely losing my mind. Now? I just sit back for the most part and watch for the LOL's.

As for limiting risk, I'm also a lot more hesitant to spend THAT big again, but I'll still usually go in for the all-in-one pledge, just because the shipping costs tend to be a factor there. At least two campaigns since, it was buy the base box for X, and pay X shipping, or buy two of the base box (or the base box + everything deal) for less than 2X, and still pay X shipping. I love where I live. The one thing that I hate, beyond every animal and most plants being lethal, is importing stuff. It's been a hassle for as long as I can remember.

In case anyone cares:

The absolute forecaster of success of RRT, that you'd have to be someone who just wants RRT to die if you question the absoluteness of validity, frpgames' Top 20 list doesn't have RRT listed anymore.

http://frpgames.com/cart.php?m=bestseller_list&prodlist=2

FRP!!! Why hast thou forsaken us!?! Truly, if being in the top 20 is a sign of amazing things from the retail end of one of the largest distributors in the world, not being on there is a problem!? Woe, the end is nigh!!!

:-P

I can agree with Morgan, this campaign (and the bullgak that went on with Wyrd's RPG) has definitely shifted how I use Kickstarter. Not that I was ever a big spender in the first place, but I definitely regret participating as strongly as I did.

Though here's a thought experiment; if everyone had that same view, and contributed no more than $125 (or less than half the average contribution for the campaign), PB would've pulled in less than half as much money (say, 600-700k or so), meaning we would've missed a ton of stretch goals, meaning we probably wouldn't have even gotten that much. And even funnier; the reduced work load might have even helped the project. Though the time it took wave one to get to retail, it wouldn't have helped avoid the shenanigans altogether.

My other BIG contributions have been to all 3 Dwarven Forge campaigns, which I don't regret in the least, and Shadows of Brimstone, also no regrets. So I guess thus far I'm batting 4/6 for projects that got over $100. Not bad. Though the awesome that is DF is probably inflating that figure beyond the average. Because apparently they're the only creator on KS that can estimate a time frame accurately.

 Forar wrote:
FRP!!! Why hast thou forsaken us!?! Truly, if being in the top 20 is a sign of amazing things from the retail end of one of the largest distributors in the world, not being on there is a problem!? Woe, the end is nigh!!!

:-P

I can agree with Morgan, this campaign (and the bullgak that went on with Wyrd's RPG) has definitely shifted how I use Kickstarter. Not that I was ever a big spender in the first place, but I definitely regret participating as strongly as I did.

Though here's a thought experiment; if everyone had that same view, and contributed no more than $125 (or less than half the average contribution for the campaign), PB would've pulled in less than half as much money (say, 600-700k or so), meaning we would've missed a ton of stretch goals, meaning we probably wouldn't have even gotten that much. And even funnier; the reduced work load might have even helped the project. Though the time it took wave one to get to retail, it wouldn't have helped avoid the shenanigans altogether.

My other BIG contributions have been to all 3 Dwarven Forge campaigns, which I don't regret in the least, and Shadows of Brimstone, also no regrets. So I guess thus far I'm batting 4/6 for projects that got over $100. Not bad. Though the awesome that is DF is probably inflating that figure beyond the average. Because apparently they're the only creator on KS that can estimate a time frame accurately.

$700k or so would have gotten us the gnerls, male and female zent power armors, zent heavy infantry, MACIIs, and the super veritechs in plastic plus the resin special characters which would have roughly made the second wave roughly the same in terms of individual sculpts (but obviously less in terms of total figure count). Because of that extra funding, we've armored veritechs, lancers, ghots, light infantry, experimental and command bits, vf-4s, VEFs, and a bunch of tokens with freebies of all of them except the infantry and vf-4. I could have lived without that post 700k stuff personally if it meant that the kickstarter fulfilled on time but we both know that was apparently now never going to be the case. They couldn't even get the plastic stuff unlocked in the first 400k out in time to be less than a year late and that is being generous by not including the resin special characters unlocked there. I don't think the level of funding would have mattered as palladium screwed up their $30k crowdfunded pair of RPG books with a 1-2 year delay as well... and that is their niche specialty (RPG books although I'd understand if you defaulted to "screwing up" instead) that they've been doing for 30+ years. Whether they unlocked 10 minis with 80k or 100 sculpts with 1.4 million, at this point I don't think it ever would have ended well/on time.

This was the first KS that I actually had the balls to click pledge on and it definitely made me hesitant again since. Previously, my fingers hovered over the sedition wars campaign and Kings of War but I ultimately chickenout out on both and I'm really glad that I did. After Robotech, I came close to pledging for AVP which has turned into another palladium-esque screwup and I pledged the $1 minimum for Heavy Gear (which admittedly is still too early to tell how it will end up but considering they just dropped the "file incompatibility" surprise last update I'm not optimistic). I had some moderate interest in a few others that completed since with varying degrees of success/failure but the ones on average that I've been most interested in have ended up with tons of issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We also have no clue at the moment how palladium will handle the resin specials at this point. Will they stay resin and they'll have to pay ND to make several thousand of each? Will they just bite the bullet and make a special character plastic accessory sprue for each main faction instead (so rick/roy on one and khyron/miriya on another)? If they go plastic, will they go back on their word and just do add on bits or a complete model for each? I suspect they're really regretting the special character resin figure stretch goals at this point.

I find it odd the Spartan/Phalanx keeps being sold out, though the Battletech guys would probably like them.

I am being a fool and getting more of the stuff (Thanks Forar!), but I figure I will have a complete game of everything for both sides so I can host as I wish.
If I get much more, I should stop being insane and put magnets in a few of these.
Had not made much headway painting, life interferes.

The M.E.K. solvent based "glues" seem to be the way to go for these models, I agree the Testors tubes or Tamiya do not work quite as nice on this plastic.

Playing a game tonight, will see how it goes, maybe will post something.

@Warboss: Rick/Roy/Khyron/Miriya are supposed to be the same plastic as everything else. Their recent limited edition figures (Max, Miriya) have been in pewter/resin, but RRKM aren't supposed to be.

Off the top of my head, the only resin stuff from the actual campaign is the SDF-1 model, the bases, and the two objective packs. With a caveat that they did say that with the changes necessary for the VEF-1/1D pack, there might need to be pewter and/or resin pieces made and included.

Eddie Farrer on May 4, 2013
Will the character models be in plastic or are they going to be in white metal?

Creator Palladium Books on May 4, 2013
Always plastic unless we note otherwise.
--Plastic Ninja

Rick and Roy are in plastic. If anything is in something other than plastic we will note that when we announce it. -ND

Apr 21 2013 on Robotech® RPG Tactics™

The Rick Hunter SE Veritech is plastic and includes all three modes.

Apr 20 2013 on #10: from the project Robotech® RPG Tactics™

While it is possible they'll try to change something like that up (the number of LE figures they'll need is likely in the 6-7,000+ range), even with the items not going to retail, they are "KS/Convention exclusives", meaning they can bring a couple hundred with them to each Gencon/Adepticon to sell off. Whether or not that is enough to get ahead of the mold costs, I don't know, but that's what we were told.

@Talizvar: welcome! Glad the box got safely to you, those cuts in the Battloid sprue were a great idea. Definitely made shipping them a lot easier.

Have fun with the games, and yeah, feel free to let us know how they go. Good to hear you've got some reasonably local opposition.

Thanks for the correction. I guess I was remembering it wrong and/or confused from the con specials as I could have sworn they were resin as well. Oh well, I guess that makes it easier for them in a way.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
A friend has been trying to sell his pledge for two weeks now on several popular Australian trade sites. He started at 15% off of his Kickstarter price, and has since dropped it down to 20%. Note, this isn't off retail, and isn't just for the Wave 1 stuff. His entire pledge on the KS was $580US, he's now trying to offload it, still in shrinkwrap, for $460US (with Wave 2 to follow).

He dropped nearly $600 USD, sight unseen? Yikes.

Heh. I was in for almost triple that. Thankfully someone bought it all.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I generally won't spend much more than $125 USD shipped, simply to limit risk. More and more, this looks like the right approach. You come in right around the pledging "sweet spot", and you don't have as much risk if the game tanks.

I'm a lot more skeptical now, but at the time, the definitely had me on board

As for limiting risk, I'm also a lot more hesitant to spend THAT big again, but I'll still usually go in for the all-in-one pledge, just because the shipping costs tend to be a factor there.

$1,500 USD just like that? Whoa. That's like 3-5x of my annual gaming budget. I feel so much better about my spending habits.

True, the international shipping is a killer, esp where you are. I have the luxury of simply ignoring any non-US project, which works out to maybe 1/4, so not a big deal. I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

Welp, another week, another banal PBWU. And another week where they appear like they'll miss updating Backers.

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

We are so pleased that our Kickstarter backers across the European Union and Australia have all shipped (and should be in everyone’s hands). Shipping the last hundred or so to the rest of the world has begun and will continue over the next few weeks.

Woot! Only 190 days (27 weeks) since shipping began. Granted, that includes the 79 days where they shipped nothing to backers. And it boggles the mind that even though yes, there's a difference between shipping domestically, and shipping internationally, a time increase of over 20 times is literally ludicrous and inexcusable. (no, that's not a typo, 1000 domestic in a week, 100 international in what appears to be no less than two weeks)

Meanwhile, work continues on the engineering aspect of Wave Two items, and we just requested a quote for a handful of new items.

Heavy on suggestion, light on detail. Not surprised.

All 12 comprehensive instruction sheets for building Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One game pieces have been posted on DriveThruRPG.com and are available for FREE along with the color guide and other odds and ends. Much more will be coming your way.

Yay! Lookit that! They finally got around to doing stuff that should have been in the box to begin with! They should be proud they've fixed a mistake that should have been realized before shipping began, especially given any argument that they were rushed for time would so obviously be crap (having had from when the first container arrived in late August, to the first non-FC shipping at the end of October. Printing out usable instructions and putting them in the box as they shipped shouldn't be a hard ask.

As I noted last week, Palladium has exciting plans in development for expanding the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game line and gaming experience for years to come. We have wanted to write and post a rather expansive update to all our Robotech® supporters for a number of weeks now. We plan to do so next week.

Or, instead of yet more promises, you just tell people what's happening? The only way you'll get anyone back on board (and admittedly there's a lot you just never will), is to "maintain consistent communication throughout the process" (Campaign Front Page Risks and Challenges). Silence, blather, silence, weak promises, silence, silence, one decent post, silence, repeat, is not going to get anyone swayable back. And regaining credibility with those that haven't forever forsaken you, will be important for the future.

*snip links to unboxing and Kevin's interview*

TLDR - We started shipping to the people we've been ignoring for 2+ months, we've got big plans for the future but we're not telling, and we finally fixed stuff that shouldn't have been in error in the first place. Also, here's a video and a podcast of us spruiking our product.

"We just requested a quote for a handful of new items".

Hey, hey guys, here's an idea, how about you clean off your plate before you add more to it?

But I'm sure their 'plan to finally tell us what's going on next week' will come into fruition. Totally. :-D

Edit: Merijeek and Morgan have both pointed out that it could be something dumb like Malcontent dice. Considering how hard they're riding that stupid dice bag, it could be talking up something insignificant like that.

 Forar wrote:
But I'm sure their 'plan to finally tell us what's going on next week' will come into fruition. Totally. :-D

How many weeks has it been since their last ignored promise of more meaningful info about wave 2?

I don't even know anymore. I really enjoyed keeping tabs on the insanity of Dwarven Forge's 3rd campaign for a month, and then I looked back into RRT and... nothing had happened in that time.

I'm sorry.

The dice bag happened.

*jazzhands*

Maybe they're designing other types of bags, we have one for dice, now we need one for drool and another for storing the small parts that snap off. None for our hopes and dreams though, those belong in the toilet.

Hmmm...so Rick isn't the only one who believes Kevin's mention is for some totally new items.

I just took "new" as "oops, we should have had these sprues laid out a year ago and we finally got them off to the factory"

Guess we'll know soon ... hopefully before hell freezes over.

 Talizvar wrote:
I find it odd the Spartan/Phalanx keeps being sold out, though the Battletech guys would probably like them.

I am being a fool and getting more of the stuff (Thanks Forar!), but I figure I will have a complete game of everything for both sides so I can host as I wish.
If I get much more, I should stop being insane and put magnets in a few of these.
Had not made much headway painting, life interferes.

The M.E.K. solvent based "glues" seem to be the way to go for these models, I agree the Testors tubes or Tamiya do not work quite as nice on this plastic.

Playing a game tonight, will see how it goes, maybe will post something.

I would if shops didn't want my firstborn to send the boxes to Japan. Even better make 4 Spartans/Armored Valks repackaging to a box and I'll buy double.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Even better make 4 Spartans/Armored Valks repackaging to a box and I'll buy double.

M.

The Armored Valks are 4 to a box. And I kinda want them!

I was aiming for variety. Only the Star League in their heyday had units composed of the same mech type.

M.

 Stormonu wrote:
Hmmm...so Rick isn't the only one who believes Kevin's mention is for some totally new items.

I just took "new" as "oops, we should have had these sprues laid out a year ago and we finally got them off to the factory"

Guess we'll know soon ... hopefully before hell freezes over.

The problem now is, after several weeks of "news for the future is coming, just you wait!", it's likely either going to be rage inducing (announcement of new models, when they've still got two dozen plus on their plate), or it's gonna be apathetic (dicebags and/or dice). As usual, instead of Kevin just announcing it, and letting the product speak for itself, he's gone the route of style before substance.

Really, the only thing that'd thread that needle at all, would be an announcement of partnership with GHQ for official conventional vehicles. Hopefully, they factor in overall balance into Convetional Units, because there's a long history in alternate activation games, of using incredibly cheap, ablative units to boost activation count and distort the activation system. But announcing CU's and then doing very little stress-testing, would be a very Palladi-esque thing to do.

I think overall, this is one of the few KSs that has soured me on KS in general. Too little accountability

Morgan Vening wrote:
Hopefully, they factor in overall balance into Convetional Units, because there's a long history in alternate activation games, of using incredibly cheap, ablative units to boost activation count and distort the activation system. But announcing CU's and then doing very little stress-testing, would be a very Palladi-esque thing to do.

Maybe those units will get life is cheap, or something similar. Besides, even being able to manipulate activations, it is better than you do your entire turn, and then what ever I have left gets to do something.

Also, there is a possibility that conventional units are only available as upgrades to real units. Destroids with tank support, Valkyries with fighter support, and so on. Make a new support option for conventional units, like 2 CU squads take up a single support slot.

Sining wrote:
I think overall, this is one of the few KSs that has soured me on KS in general. Too little accountability

I'm going to disagree with you on that one. I didn't go as Kickstarter berserk as some people did, but I still went way too far on a number of projects. Let's see how they've worked out?

Evil Baby Orphanage (card game): On time, or at least close enough.

Through The Breach (RPG, minis): Absurdly late, producer actually stopped working on this project in the middle to do other stuff, then finally, reluctantly came back and finished ridiculously late, and by the end nobody gave a gak apart from getting it over with.

MYTH (minis-heavy board game): Legendary as a general screwup, even if they at least kept trying to turn it around and have been general successful or so I understand it. I sold off my stuff as soon as I got it and got a look at the mess of the rules.

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ (note, actual cut and paste of their stupid marks): Duh

All Quiet on the Martian Front (minis, tabletop game): Actually did fairly well for a while, then hit snags with plastic, devolved into THREE waves, communications went to basically non-existent

Cthulhu Wars (minis-heavy board game): Probably the highest quality product I've gotten, but of course the original base game was like a year late, expansions will hopefully arrive by this Gen Con. The only one I've dealt with where the timeline went to hell, and the people running it took all the blame as the issue was their lack of experience.

Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition (RPG): By the time this one is finished (way late, no evidence of actual serious progress, we're getting a lot of BS similar to Simbieda's "finalizing the color guide" for ten straight updates) I'm expecting it to be almost as legendary a screwup as this Robotech. Almost certainly going to deliver to retail before backers, which is what they've now done on their previous (extremely late) KS Horror on the Orient Express.

Shadows of Brimstone (minis-heavy board game): Good game, generally nice pieces, ridiculously late, trying to gouge people extra on shipping, top-level backers are eventually going to find out it wasn't nearly the deal they were led to believe. And backers are going to not only get their stuff after retail, they're going to get it WAY after retail. (No, Forar, not arguing this one with you)

RARRRR!!! (card game): May have actually shipped early

Nova Cry: Redux (card game): Too early to tell, just closed, already going to be late based on the one update since close.

OGRE DE: Legendarily late, but with a fantastic product. Of course, its lateness was only legendary because the likes of FFP, Wyrd, AD, Chaosium, and Palladium Books hadn't yet gotten into the game to show how to really make a project late.

So, honestly, I'd say this KS had really wrecked Kickstarter for me, but they were only the first and most visible major fuckup.

Unfortunately, their idiocy is turning out to be the standard, not the exception on Kickstarter with what are supposed to be established gaming companies.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
Hopefully, they factor in overall balance into Convetional Units, because there's a long history in alternate activation games, of using incredibly cheap, ablative units to boost activation count and distort the activation system. But announcing CU's and then doing very little stress-testing, would be a very Palladi-esque thing to do.

Maybe those units will get life is cheap, or something similar. Besides, even being able to manipulate activations, it is better than you do your entire turn, and then what ever I have left gets to do something.

Also, there is a possibility that conventional units are only available as upgrades to real units. Destroids with tank support, Valkyries with fighter support, and so on. Make a new support option for conventional units, like 2 CU squads take up a single support slot.

Actually the thought that I had, and GHQ was asked originally to contact me by members of the FB group. Was to add multiple conventional units onto a single base, give them one single CP per base, and keep them weak enough that they are only annoyances except some of the nastier units. In the end I think Mechs should rule. Not Like Battletech where tanks can compete but where tanks and LAV's are limited and do not have the power to do anything but add some flavor. Now some missile vehicles could be nasty IF they get the drop on you though. Most people like the balance that I've struck. PB has said nothing of it and it's all still a WIP. I have no idea in the end if they will use any of it at all.

Sweet more fan rules to prop up the corpse of a stillborn game!